[Closed] Charlottesville

Do you accept that Nazism is inherently about mass murder/genocide or not? a simple yes or no will do.

He won't answer y/n questions.

It would mean he'd having to admit things he'd rather not - doesn't make any difference either way.....he's a horrid little troll whose best ignored.

He'd rather deal in whataboutery & deflection.....classic troll tactics!

Hello ninfan.

I am assuming that you haven't read any of the rebuttals to your straw men from before your return to the discussion, so i'll precis mine for you.

You, Trump and others like you are Nazi apologists who would be active supporters given the opportunity ie: you're a Nazi.

An entire generation from most of the other countries in the world went to deadly war to "punch Nazis in the face". It worked and the world was better for it.

Or would you rather the German Nazis had won?

Perhaps to the advantage of your job prospects.

who's (sorry) best ignored

Now there's a challenge.....deal or no deal, what does the banker reckon?

ninfan - Member

OMG! Guns! wild, violent gun toting nutters, presumably carrying thousands of bullets in their quick-change assault rifle magazines!

How many people got shot? Hundreds presumably?

Over 40,000 actually, in the US in 2015.

Cam we go back to the poster who suggested that Steve Earle used the confederate flag in some way? Do you have any evidence of that? Saw him live a while back and he said that on occasion people arrive at his gigs with them and expect him to be ok with it which he very much isnt. He said it mostly seems to occur in europe where people dont understand what it means.

Edited...it was inkster

There's only one group condoning violence round here

You literally said you [b]run someone over in a car[/b] for [i]suggesting[/i] you should be punched.

You have likewise have excused the actions of the guy driving his car at speed into a crowd.

How is that [i]not[/i] condoning violence?

Either way, whichever side can best explain whether the jumbo jet/treadmill thing actually works gets my vote...*

(* two points: I teach science so I'm alright with this in truth, and those on here that know me personally will know I have a, er, fairly 'antifacist' past...)

Methinks our little resident Adolph Hipster may start to understand himself a little better after this thread..

C'mon ninfan.. put away your angsty teenage rock records, admit your mistakes and hug it out bro..
There's no shame in being wrong.
Life is a learning experience.

Just let it all out little fella, let it all out.
You'll feel better afterwards I promise.
It's time to be a grown-up now son

CaptainFlashheart

Me
I don't care if you're white, black, or even blue, carrying a gun signals one thing, that you are prepared to kill someone.

Bullshit.

Please explain why you need to carry an assault rifle in 2017 America?

(Guns were written into the constitution when they were required for protection, mainly from wild animals and native americans (whom is was ok to shoot back then....))

perhaps you would like to carry out the following test:

1) Go on ebay, buy a "fake" assualt rifle.

2) drive into any major city centre in any european town, get out, get the gun out the boot, wave it around a bit shouting "don't worry, i'm not going to shoot anyone.

Try that. I give you 5 mins before you're in a body bag. If you can't understand why, then that's your issue i'm afraid.

Please explain why you need to carry an assault rifle in 2017 America?

No one needs to, and no one should be able to. American gun culture is repulsive.

However, your original post (edited? )to which I responded was that carrying a gun (any gun) meant someone was prepared to kill someone and didn't deserve to be treated as a human. I disagree with that, as would the many thousands of people who shoot in the UK. I often carry a gun, but trust me, I am no way prepared to kill anyone! Also, my pot roasted pheasant would surely grant me at least some respect!

I agree in full with your point about assault rifles. I've often mentioned my dislike of Americans and guns! Sorry if my call of bullshit was taken wrongly.

yunki - Member

Methinks our little resident Adolph Hipster may start to understand himself a little better after this thread..

C'mon ninfan.. put away your angsty teenage rock records, admit your mistakes and hug it out bro..
There's no shame in being wrong.
Life is a learning experience.

Just let it all out little fella, let it all out.
You'll feel better afterwards I promise.
It's time to be a grown-up now son

I honestly think he needs a little love, whether or not he'll admit to this is a different matter.

#hugs4ninfan

[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]I agree in full with your point about assault rifles. I've often mentioned my dislike of Americans and guns! Sorry if my call of bullshit was taken wrongly.

Fair enough - thanks for the clarification, and I can understand your reaction, but I think you were misinterpreting the context of what you were replying to. The implication was somebody carrying an assault rifle down the street (at least that's what I took from it), not a shotgun for shooting animals (or any form of gun used for competition purposes). It sounds like you're in agreement with the point which I think was intended to be made.

Respect for the clarification Cpt

CaptainFlashheart

No one needs to, and no one should be able to. American gun culture is repulsive.

However, your original post to which I responded was that carrying a gun (any gun) meant someone was prepared to kill someone and didn't deserve to be treated as a human. I disagree with that, as would the many thousands of people who shoot in the UK. I often carry a gun, but trust me, I am no way prepared to kill anyone! Also, my pot roasted pheasant would surely grant me at least some respect!

I agree in full with your point about assault rifles. I've often mentioned my dislike of Americans and guns! Sorry if my call of bullshit was taken wrongl

Thanks for the considered response 😆

i think we are in agreement. Perhaps i should have be clearer, although i thought the picture spelled it out, i am not against owning a gun, or carrying a gun, where that gun provides a sensible use to the carrier.

(Just like we can't ban cars because a nutter uses one to murder someone)

In the civilized world, there are still some requirements for civilians to carry guns in there day to day business. Be that for there job (games keeper, farmer etc) or just for fun (target shooter etc). but in all those cases, they would not expect to carry that gun, in plain sight, in a public area. In Europe, doing that is illegal and will get you at the least arrested and at the worst shot dead yourself by a firearms team (especially these days in light of recent events).

In fact, as you are aware, the law in our country is quite clear on when, where and how you are able to carry a firearm, and the type of firearm. Break those laws and you'll loose the right to carry arms.

In the US however, it seems that you can carry an assault rifle, not just into a public place, but also to a public rally, open to all. Why would you need to do that? The only reason to take a gun to a public rally is to shoot the people there you don't like, for what ever mad political, social or frankly, insane, reason you see fit. That is, IMO, the morally wrong bit.

maxtorque - Member
Please explain why you need to carry an assault rifle in 2017 America?

Everyone in Murica can carry assault rifles, it's the 2nd amendment.

It is within their rights to bear arms. Silly goose. 😆

Both sides bear arms in various forms so what's the big deal? I would be fully loaded if I were in Murica. 😛

If they are happy to use it against each others then that's their choice. If one side wants to prosecute the other side, because one side has bigger guns than the other, then go to the court. It's Not a "cowboy" town you know. 😆

Everyone in Murica can carry assault rifles, it's the 2nd amendment. It is within their rights bear arms. Silly goose.

They CAN but he asked why they NEED to.

molgrips - Member

Everyone in Murica can carry assault rifles, it's the 2nd amendment. It is within their rights bear arms. Silly goose.

They CAN but he asked why they NEED to.

If they are happy to use it against each others then that's their choice.

****'s sake.

It's legal in the 'states you smash your testicles repeatedly with a lump hammer but I don't see too many folk exercising that constitooshunal right...

Openly carrying a f**ckig assault rifle down the street is not to dissuade jihadis from bombing anyone or to protect themselves, it's purely designed to be antagonistic.

Drac - Moderator

If they are happy to use it against each others then that's their choice.

****'s sake.

However, people are also allowed to protect themselves using arms from assailant(s) etc or someone who want to do grievous bodily harm on them.

😛

mcj78 - Member
It's legal in the 'states you smash your testicles repeatedly with a lump hammer but I don't see too many folk exercising that constitooshunal right...

Openly carrying a f**ckig assault rifle down the street is not to dissuade jihadis from bombing anyone or to protect themselves, it's purely designed to be antagonistic.

Everyone in Murica can carry assault rifles, it's the 2nd amendment.

It's Not a "cowboy" town you know

I think the arguments go something like this:

- Right to bear arms enshrined in the Constitution
- They are exercising that right. If they cannot exercise that right, then clearly they no longer have the right to bear arms
- In the act of exercising the right, they are defending the Constitution and preventing it being undermined and chipped away by government/politicians
- Attempts by previous US Presidents and other politicians to impose restrictions on military style semi-automatic rifles in the wake of various massacres using those types of weapon, have made the right to bear precisely those types of weapons a touchstone for those for whom the right to bear arms is so important.

Looks like coach THM has subbed ninfan for chewkw in the last 10 minutes of this game! 😆 A bold move!

An entire generation from most of the other countries in the world went to deadly war to "punch Nazis in the face". It worked and the world was better for it.

An entire generation from most of the other countries in the world went to deadly war to punch communists in he face, it worked and the world was better for it... but for some reason the lefties still think it's admirable to worship communist idols and march around with flags telling us that it's the future

ninfan

Nazi's are genocidal mass murders, yes or no?

Coach must have just sin binned him for a bit! 😆

the lefties still think it's admirable to worship communist idols and march around with flags telling us that it's the future

What lefties?
Where?
And what does that have to do with anything?

Nazi's are genocidal mass murders, yes or no?

Some are

Some believe in the superiority of the master race, but seek that outcome through non-murderous means

Same as Communists (who have killed [b]way[/b] more people than Nazis) aren't all genocidal mass murderers, even though the nation states that they formed used it as a central tenet of their creation

That is their identity, culture and their tradition

[img] ?crop=1xw:0.8637170385395537xh;center,center&resize=1440:*[/img]

Sure is

dissonance - Member

Everyone in Murica can carry assault rifles, it's the 2nd amendment.

Everyone? Without exception eg peeps with criminal records and so on?

I grant you this. However probably not for the reason you wrote it.
The "cowboy" towns tended to have fairly strict gun laws eg hand your weapon in to the local sheriff and get it back when you leave town.
For some reason they didnt like everyone bimbling about with firearms especially when popping to the pub.

Same as Communists (who have killed way more people than Nazis) aren't all genocidal mass murderers

I don't think anyone is disputing this.

ninfan - Member
Nazi's are genocidal mass murders, yes or no?
Some are

Some believe in the superiority of the master race, but seek that outcome through non-murderous means

Master race... The clue is there. So what happen to the non master race?

Communism doesn't work and yes is responsible for lots of attrocities, well done you. Now can you get over that utterly irrelevant point, and continue explaining your support for Nazis? I don't think you've quite finished.

ninfan - Member

An entire generation from most of the other countries in the world went to deadly war to punch communists in he face, it worked and the world was better for it... but for some reason the lefties still think it's admirable to worship communist idols and march around with flags telling us that it's the future

Communists aren't part of this discussion, why keep mentioning them?
Why not answer the questions put to you?
Was it nice not having to share your lunch?

chewkw a while ago you asked if you were needed here, we said no. Thats still the case

I don't think anyone is disputing this

Correct.

Ninfan is just continuing his attempts to defend his fellow Nazis by pointing at other things, as if to say - "That, and so therefore this is OK".

He has no actual argument beyond repeatedly pooing his mental nappy.

seosamh77 - Member
Looks like coach THM has subbed ninfan for chewkw in the last 10 minutes of this game! A bold move!

The thread was getting very predictable so I got bored hence I left until someone started talking about arms which got me excited ... 😆

anagallis_arvensis - Member
chewkw a while ago you asked if you were needed here, we said no. Thats still the case

ninfan - Member

Some believe in the superiority of the master race, but seek that outcome through non-murderous means

How would you create the "master race" using peaceful means?

Ok.. reading between the lines ninfan, this is your admission of guilt.

You started off not liking left wing economics and being a bit wary of Muslims, then you got a teensy bit caught up in the whole left vs right thing and before you knew what was happening you're a Nazi sympathiser..

That's ok man... it's easily done

Well done for working through it all with us on here.

You'll still fall into the old habits occasionally cos let's face it, arguing on here is fun.. Just try to remember that there is no left and right, apart from in your head..

We're all groups of very complex and unique individuals and everyone is beautiful in their own way..

Even you

In the act of exercising the right, they are defending the Constitution and preventing it being undermined and chipped away by government/politicians

Though as pointed out earlier, the folks that some of those guns are defending are pretty keen on chipping away other parts of the constitution and declaration of independence, particularly the bits about equality.

non murderous, ie kick everyone out.

but for some reason the lefties still think it's admirable to worship communist idols and march around with flags telling us that it's the future

By the way still waiting for you to provide credible sources about your claim about the murderer was actually fleeing.

[quote=ninfan ]a load of whatboutery

fixed

Speaking of pinko commies does America need a new McCarthyism type thing? Searching out all the neo Nazis etc?

Also, relatively recently authorities found a vintage German Nazi and put him to trial, should America be doing that with the KKK?

You only have to look at the attitude of the Nazis from Charlottesville, the guy at the end of the vice video saying "the fact that none of our people killed anyone unjustly" was a positive (that's a direct quote). The daily stormer calling a woman one of their own had murdered some truly despicable things. Why?

[b]Because Nazis murder their enemies[/b]

They think killing people for no other reason than they disagree with you is OK, and given that billions of people disagree with them, I'd suggest the logical conclusion of their argument is more than a bit mass-murdery, wouldn't you, ninfan?

They think killing people for no other reason than they disagree with you is OK

Imagine, people espousing physical violence against people they disagree with... the horror.

ninfan - Member

Imagine, people espousing physical violence against people they disagree with... the horror.

That is exactly what you have done you hypocrite!

Now are you going to answer any of the questions put to you, or just keep trolling?

It's not too late to ask for a hug...

The post was not about using "physical violence". It was about [i]killing[/i] people you disagree with.

Why do you spend so much time and effort trying to justify clearly abhorrent actions and attitudes?

Presumably, you approve of them, yes?

Now are you going to answer any of the questions put to you,

Otherwise what? You'll punch me in the face?

Just repeating the same questions I've already answered because you don't like the answer you've been given isn't debating you know.

The post was not about using "physical violence". It was about killing people you disagree with.

Ah, right, that'll be that non-violent type of killing will it?

The principle is the same - it's ridiculous whatablutery to claim that 'well, this level of violence is acceptable in pursuit of our aims, but it's not fair when other people are violent back, or are more violent than we are'

I would bitch-slap a Nazi. I wouldn't drive my car into them.

Spot the difference.

You're a rubbish troll, ninfan.

There's a big difference between giving a Nazi a slap (because they deserve a slap for being a Nazi) and mass murder. Get off the moral equivalence bus.

Also, I outlined the very specific set of circumstances required for a punch in the face a few pages back (in bold and everything), disagreeing with someone's point of view was not part of the criteria.

Now come on, have a bit of a think and come up with something which might actually challenge us, you are capable of it, I've seen you do it...

disagreeing with someone's point of view was not part of the criteria.

Right, so now you'll punch the nazis that you agree with too will you?

Edit: To quote what you said:

"Anyone who belongs to a group whose stated primary aim is to murder large groups of people deserves a punch in the face."

Right, so, come on, a challenge for you, where is it the Nazis stated primary aim to murder large groups of people

Go on, if it's a stated primary aim, show me exactly where it's stated!

So can we check how many communists were marching in the rally? How many are fighting in the US at the moment?
How does that compare with good old white people shooting other people or murdering them with their cars?
You know back on topic.

Right, so now you'll punch the nazis that you agree with too will you?

Wat?

I think ninfan's broken...

CTRL ALT DELETE ninfan.

ninfan - Member
disagreeing with someone's point of view was not part of the criteria.
Right, so now you'll punch the nazis that you agree with too will you?

To quote what you said:

"Anyone who belongs to a group whose stated primary aim is to murder large groups of people deserves a punch in the face."

Right so, come on, a challenge for you, where is it the Nazis stated primary aim to murder large groups of people

Go on, if it's a stated primary aim, show me exactly where it's stated!

we've done that already...

good old white people shooting other people

Because in America, good old brown people never shoot people, or get shot by brown people, of course...

Another interesting account that does not exactly agree with the Orange One's version

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

fin25 - Member
CTRL ALT DELETE ninfan.

I think this game is finished, it's just the ball boys having a kick about now! 😆

[quote=ninfan ]Just repeating the same questions I've already answered because you don't like the answer you've been given isn't debating you know.

Does that mean you're going to answer the questions you haven't answered?

Just a mo...

what is the retaliation you're referring to, and what does it have to do with this thread?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charlottesville/page/9#post-8654333

Opening this thread is like when you do a really big poo, you know it's minging but you just have to look at it anyway...

ninfan - Member

Otherwise what? You'll punch me in the face?

No, this is another strawman.

Just repeating the same questions I've already answered because you don't like the answer you've been given isn't debating you know.

Liar.
You haven't answered any questions.

Where is the evidence that the murderer was fleeing?

How would you create the "master race" using peaceful means?

If the issue really is freedom of speech, where is the condemnation of a group of people (nazis) that want to deny that right (amongst others)?

Lunch in the canteen, or table for one in Subway?

There are many more.

No ninfan, I updated it, just for you, remember. Go back and have another look...

Just a mo...

I answered your question two posts later

Where is the evidence that the murderer was fleeing?

I said clearly, more than once, let's see what comes out in court

How would you create the "master race" using peaceful means?

Someone else answered this above

If the issue really is freedom of speech, where is the condemnation of a group of people (nazis) that want to deny that right (amongst others)?

All over, haven't you seen the news, or President Trump specifically condemning them?

Lunch in the canteen, or table for one in Subway?

Whatever mum brings down to me from upstairs in the kitchen

Here it is, do you think it needs another redrafting?

Anyone who belongs to a group whose stated primary aim is to murder large groups of people or has historically done so deserves a punch in the face.

All input will be gratefully received.

> Otherwise what? You'll punch me in the face?

No

Phew! That was close. If you suggest you might then he will run you over with his car. Because that's what non-violent people do apparently 😕

Here's a thing ninfan: although you find nazis repugnant you are clearly a big believer in freedom of speech, yes? So flipping your argument around, what gives the right-wing groups the right to try to suppress that free speech and disrupt those assemblies?

[quote=ninfan ]I answered your question two posts later

cite

Anyway ninfan, you haven't yet commented on the chap driving the car then getting his automatic rifle out and spraying bullets around, killing several baby robins.

I said clearly, more than once, let's see what comes out in court

So you have no evidence, and haven't answered the question. Liar.

Someone else answered this above

So you haven't answered. Liar.

All over, haven't you seen the news, or President Trump specifically condemning them?

Where's your condemnation? That was the question. Hence me calling you a hypocrite. And a liar.

Whatever mum brings down to me from upstairs in the kitchen

😐

I said clearly, more than once, let's see what comes out in court

Phew! That was close.

I'm off out, think I'll taxi it rather than walk...

I updated it, just for you, remember.

Didn't you only update it after you were unable to show where it was a stated primary aim.

So, you admit you were wrong first time, yeah?

Actually you started by saying credible sources were saying he was fleeing.

No I didn't, go back and read it

could the credible sources be the fine people trump was talking about?

No I didn't, go back and read it

So, let's just see,

@Fin25 initially said that mass murder was a stated primary aim of the Nazis, but was later forced to alter his own justification for punching Nazis after being unable to demonstrate that it was stated anywhere

@aracer accused me of not answering his question, even though I answered it two posts later (he may not have liked the answer, but hey, what you gonna do?)

@dissonance invented and inserted the word 'credible' of his own accord

And you all wonder why the left gets accused of #fakenews?

So, you admit you were wrong first time, yeah?

Yes, obviously, that's why, with your help, I updated it. I'm not afraid of being wrong, you know; Making mistakes is how we learn and improve as human beings.

But I still wholeheartedly support punching Nazis.

And you all wonder why the left gets accused of #fakenews?

I'm going to say it one more time, ninfan...

[b][i][u]I'm not left wing!!![/b][/i][/u]

ninfan - Member
after being unable to demonstrate that it was stated anywhere

After you completely ignored previous evidence supplied.

Anyhow i'm out, this is beyond ridiculous.

making mistakes is how we learn and improve as human beings.

Unfortunately Nazis require a good hard punch in the face to help them along with their learnins and thinkins cos it's the only language they understand.

Even if you are simply campaigning to politely impose retrospective restrictions on the skin colour of your community members, doing so whilst wearing the regalia of the people that conducted the holocaust indicates a rather weakened ability to productively process the subtlties of societal living..

Hence the necessary face punching