[Closed] Catholic school but we are devout atheist

Certainly would make for interesting school reports.

"Timothy has tried hard this term, but we feel that his posession by a variety of demons and dark spirits has hindered his progress. Hopefully he can find a way to cast out Satan and his minions before the end-of-year exams..."

I'm starting to feel persecuted

Add this to my existing catholic guilt about everything thats going wrong in the world probably being my fault, though I'm not sure why, as well as Jesus dying for my sins, and its all making for a very conflicted morning

*bursts into tears*

Satan and his minions

If he has minions he will be well popular.

won't be overly evangelical in a Westborough Baptist style

Like pretty much everyone, this church is just a few families, it is an irrelevance.

our boy goes to the local religious school i believe it is C of E all our middle class friends recommended it and advised us of the stunts and lies required to get a Faith reference to get in , we wrote Atheist on the form where it asked about religion ( a bit presumptuous on our part to define his religion for him but less controversial than describing his devout belief in the divinity of Lorry Drivers.)
We and he had to sign up to respect the ethos of the school , he gets occasional acts of worship and trips to church, but otherwise no obvious indoctrination just a good general education.

Children will learn about the world what they are exposed to in school is only one source of information .

Find out from other parents what the school is actually like and make a judgement on that. Faith Schools tend to be over subscribed so i am sure the LA could accommodate a swop if that was what you ultimately desired.

In principal i am firmly of the belief that religion of any colour has no place in education other than as an area of comparative study but in practice if asked to chose between a good non indoctrinating faith school and an inadequate non faith school then if i can get my boy in on my terms he goes to the good school and i try to politely and gently keep his mind open.

do you sit down and make sub-par jokes about Odysseus?

I'd be sure to make terrible jokes about him needing a decent GPS etc

O.P.- I would appeal and see where that takes you.My brother's boy goes to a catholic school (we're practically orange lodge;-) ) and I was suprised how much religion featured in his homework. I would prefer a non denomination school personally , but think it's a good thing to be taught something about all religions/philosophies.
We expect to be told where Li'l J will go to school on Monday. My missus won't sleep much this weekend...

Why can't these things just be discussed and explored in thoughtful, intelligent terms?

No offence but if you dont want us to mock and take the piss then leave us alone with your fairy tales.
You cannot ram it down our throats and think we will be happy. If we started forcing you to not worship and sent your kids to "atheism school" against your/their will do you think you would be rejoicing?

Some folk want to have no part of religion in their lives. When we cannot achieve this we feel "oppressed".

@mike ah the great conspiracy theory.

Jonba - if you'd paid more attention you'd know that the Ten Commandments were issued to the Jews, so Christian churches are exempt on that one.

Plenty of hypocrisy over the other 9, of course.

My parents were pretty agnostic (apart from when my mom went through a religious mania stage during a psychotic break), but I went to Girls Brigade and an evangelical after school club (my dad was furious, he thought it was CoE!). Despite going to a regular school, we still had hymns and prayers every morning. My mom calls herself a Christian, despite not believing in God or going to Church, "Because we're a Christian country" (normally before launching into a rant about Asian immigrants).

I also had a couple of very devout teachers, one at primary school who told us that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was just a theory, and wrong, because the world was created by God in six days. The other (at secondary school) told us that the apocalypse was coming in four years' time, and anybody who didn't accept Jesus as their saviour would be left to endure hell on earth under the Antichrist.

I ended up declaring myself an Atheist at the age of 9, because regular reading of the Bible at the evangelical club made me realise that the Bible is full of misogyny and contradictions. Plus they told me I would go to hell if I didn't love God more than my own family - which struck me as a bit petty in itself, but at the time I was also teaching myself about Greek mythology, and I realised that there were a lot of gods.

Can I ask how you got your decision today.

I assume it's for a place in reception. National offer day isn't until Monday so your result is a tad premature 😯

That said, I used to LOVE going to the huge Catholic Church my friend's family attended, because the church was old and magnificent, had loads of bling and stained glass windows, and had sermons in Latin, which was cool.

National offer day isn't until Monday so your result is a tad premature

Catholics used to be quite keen on early withdrawal.

...and had sermons in Latin, which was cool.

I can't believe they had sermons in Latin, some parts of the mass yes if pre Vatican II, but giving a sermon in a language that no one speaks doesn't make a lot of sense.

Then again you are talking about the catholic church.

Because the religious insist on indoctrinating our kids as part of mainstream education

I think a few people on this thread seem to be confusing the following Monty python sketch with reality....

Indoctrinating? Brainwashing? What on earth do you think is taking place in modern schools? Other than having the kids disinterestedly sing the odd hymn in assembly? 😆

I ended up declaring myself an Atheist at the age of 9, because regular reading of the Bible at the evangelical club made me realise that the Bible is full of misogyny and contradictions

You must have gone to a good school if you understood the words "misogyny" and "contradictions" at age 9 🙂

Well that was interesting

On the plus side, the school is clean, the children and staff polite. (not that that i would expect any different) The maths, English, PE, Art, Music, Gardening seem well covered.

as for the religious aspect, the walls are littered with childrens pictures and statements next to each with things like 'i love jesus he takes care of me' and wow the amount of virgin Mary figurines! paper weights, door stops, usb sticks everything! if the catholic church was a bike brand it would be Cannondale, maybe they have the same branding manager ?

anyhow i digress, we had a chat with the head teacher and she explained that they they teach the children the Catholic belief's and teach them to believe in Jesus and he will guide you and keep you safe. which i wholeheartedly disagree with (unless Jesus provides a suitable and sufficient risk assessment and method statement).

the other general catholic practices happen, regular prays, mass, a strange BIG virgin Mary you have to speak to in the naughty corner.

We have been told if we accept the place we will have to sign a form that we agree to act in the way of the school beliefs and our child will take part in the practices, i asked about our right to opt out of the religion aspects and told since we would have to agree to the school code it wont be an option.

as for other options of schools, the local community schools are full and the admissions dept have said it is highly unlikely an appeal will be successful and if it is we will only get school options on the other side of town.

so it looks like this is what our child is stuck with unless we move, i personally feel let down by our council and government and echo others on here and feel religion should not form part of the education system.

That's a bit off? You should have the right to a religiously appropriate school, surely? Any Muslims there?

The law used to be that you could demand the,nearest, faith school of your choice- if you were that faith- but that atheists just had to go wherever - they could not demand a non faith school. I think this is still the case but my info is a number of years out of date.

Its out of order for them to demand you follow their religion but Binners will be along soon to explain why it not real or an issue.

What on earth do you think is taking place in modern schools? Other than having the kids disinterestedly sing the odd hymn in assembly?

Next you will be saying Greggs don't want to sell pastry baked products

so it looks like this is what our child is stuck with unless we move,

Surely the OP's predicament is gold dust for a Daily Mail article?

Can I ask how you got your decision today.

I assume it's for a place in reception. National offer day isn't until Monday so your result is a tad premature

We have an online system in Bolton, the official letter arrives on Monday

That's a bit off? You should have the right to a religiously appropriate school, surely? Any Muslims there?

Not always easy to tell persons religion just by sight, but i saw no other religious dress and id guess all the children and teaches are white British

That's a bit off? You should have the right to a religiously appropriate school, surely? Any Muslims there?

There are muslims at my daughter catholic school. Apparently they prefer catholic schools as they still use the ten commandments, and stuff, as a benchmark for behaviour, have a focus on morality, and aren't afraid to say 'this is right, this is wrong'. Whereas C of E schools are generally regarded as a bit wooly and liberal, turning out godless heathens who'll end up touching each others bottoms inappropriately

Yes Binners[ which auto corrected changed to SINNERS !]

Thats brilliant! Does that mean I'm going to burn?!!!! 😀

I can't believe they had sermons in Latin, some parts of the mass yes if pre Vatican II, but giving a sermon in a language that no one speaks doesn't make a lot of sense.

Then again you are talking about the catholic church.

It was partial, weird call and response stuff (the priest would say something in Latin, the congregation replied - there were books provided).

And Jimdubleyou - my dad encouraged a massive love of reading, hence teaching myself about Greek mythology. Not just the watered down for kids stuff, all the eye popping stuff (Zeus, you dirty dog!). I'd also read Lord of the Rings in its entirety by then too. I probably didn't think 'misogyny' at the time though, probably the tamer 'horrifically sexist'.

Womp,

what LA is it?

Where was the catholic school in your order of your list of preferences?

Where are you on the OSL for the community school (if you applied)

What is the Planned Admission Number for the community School.

Look at both schools policies.

You have your views on the religious aspect, others have theirs. To go into an appeal and effectively say "I think religion is stupid" is in no way going to help your cause.

The simple fact is that the Church has it's (rightful) place in this country provided education places. You might not like it but the bickering here is not going to change the fact that it exists and will continue to way beyond our lifetimes.

Its out of order for them to demand you follow their religion

I seem to remember reading that kids could sit out of religious assemblies in state schools, and have done so...?

Our kids go to the (very good) local CoE school. Didn't notice it so much in reception but our eldest is in first year now and is getting his head filled with pap. Problem is many of the teachers are fully paid up members of the god squad so it's not religious [i]education[/i] "this is what we as christians believe..." it's indoctrination "this is what is...". So he gets home with stories about jesus and god and I have to point out that it's not actually true, it's just what his teacher believes, and as teachers are supposed to be knowledgeable people he's having difficulty.

So now we're stuck with the dichotomy of trying to get them to listen properly in class when they are being [i]educated[/i] but to be more critical in their thinking when they are being [i]preached[/i] to.

read what they say the religion permeates the entire ethos of what the school does and what it stands for

Read their post they cannot "opt out" as its in the "behaviour contract"

I would be interested to see what the legal position was on that one as you can [ as far as i know] still opt out - well my eldest does.

WOW! 😯

That is so far from what I would consider acceptable I'm not sure what my reaction would be.

We've got this on Monday for the eldest, I'd forgotten until this thread...

I'm one of those who bought a house because of the catchment area, I hope it pays off. 🙄

(

You have your views on the religious aspect, others have theirs. To go into an appeal and effectively say "I think religion is stupid" is in no way going to help your cause.

Maybe, and if womp or any individual wanted to employ that tactic then good luck (and please, please let me know how you got on).

I'm trying to offer constructive advice based on first person experience.

That's all.

But, I repeat, going into an appeal and approaching it from a negative perspective will probably not help you win and is likely to antagonise the panel.

If womp isn't legally entitled to refuse to have jnrs head filled with stuff that he finds nonsense then he should be!

you then have to have an act of "christian worship" and DO re

Schools are getting round the withdrawal from RE by claiming its ethics when 95% of the syllabus is basically religion.

Atheists and the religious should have equal rights and equal treatment
Its not and we our kids have to be subjected to their factless fairy tale presented as truth by an authority figure who really believes.

IT leads to the issues DONK noted, undermines the authority of the teacher and bastardises the meaning of the word educate.

There are plenty of schools in SW London that pay lip service to their obligation to have an act of worship - it is not a one way street.

Interesting how views seem to have now swung round in favour of the OP from an initial stance by many of "suck it up" once the full extent of the "school code" becomes apparent. Children and their parents should not be put in this position.

I have never heard of this?

Normally the faith schools are over subscribed.

I can't see the parents or the school being very happy with the situation.

the walls are littered with childrens pictures and statements next to each with things like 'i love jesus he takes care of me' and wow the amount of virgin Mary figurines! paper weights, door stops, usb sticks everything!

Is this true or a bit of poetic licence?

the other general catholic practices happen, regular prays, mass, a strange BIG virgin Mary you have to speak to in the naughty corner.

Speaking to a giant Mary in the corner is not a "general catholic" practice.

I was subject to 11 years of RC school and never experienced or saw anything like you describe.

Is the school Opus Dei or something?

As someone who started to go to church, to get their kids in the Vgood CoE school over the other side of town... I think the situation the OP finds himself quite wrong and I wish him luck in putting it right.

Not got really much advise,other than... can you find any parents already at the school, who share your view ?... pound to a penny there will be some... Have a word with them, maybe they can offer advice/put your mind at rest with how they handle it with their kids??

Good luck

There are plenty of schools in SW London that pay lip service to their obligation to have an act of worship - it is not a one way street.

An absence of RE is not indoctrinating the children with a faith position.

The simple fact is that the Church has it's [b](rightful)[/b] place in this country provided education places

You atheists realise you're all going to burn in the fiery pits of hell, when God gets her hands on you, right?

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An absence of RE is not indoctrinating the children with a faith position.

Not suggesting it is, but it isn't strictly within the legal requirement, which was the point I was making.

An absence of RE is not indoctrinating the children with a faith position.

Not suggesting it is, but it isn't strictly within the legal requirement, which was the point I was making.

You appeared to be suggesting an equivalence ("not a one way street") with indoctrination. I find the suggestion absurd.

It's just quietly ignoring stupid rules, so still a "one way street"

Behaviour 'contract' sounds unenforceable, TBH. Especially as you appear to have no other options. If a child from a non-Christian faith, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, or Islam, had no option but to attend this local school, then requested exclusion from Christian activities, I don't see that they could deny this.

Have you spoken to the local authority about their views on this particular aspect?

TBH, if you make enough stink about non-compliance, I imagine a solution at one of the other schools would be found, as neither side would want running battles of this nature throughout someone's primary school career.

EDIT: Saw that there are 'other side of town' options. I wouldn't be happy, certainly. Surely there must be a family at the community school which would rather be at the Catholic school?

what LA is it?

Where was the catholic school in your order of your list of preferences?

Where are you on the OSL for the community school (if you applied)

What is the Planned Admission Number for the community School.
i assume you mean class size ? i think its 30

To go into an appeal and effectively say "I think religion is stupid" is in no way going to help your cause.

that my fear, thats why i chose to say our values and beliefs don't align. im not out to offend anyone

The simple fact is that the Church has it's (rightful) place in this country provided education places. You might not like it but the bickering here is not going to change the fact that it exists and will continue to way beyond our lifetimes.

True, but this is a good place to adsorb other view points vent frustration before i sit in an appeal

interesting site:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-education.html

this looks like a good place to put this. Latest newsletter from the National Secular Society arrived in my inbox a minute ago.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2016/04/danes-leaving-state-religion-in-droves-to-avoid-church-tax

Danish citizens have to pay the 'Church tax' if they are affiliated with the church, and it can take up to 1.5% of their income. All baptised Danes are automatically made members of the church, making them liable for the tax, though Christian Today reports that just 2.4% of these members actually attend regularly.

As in Denmark, Germans baptised in childhood automatically become members of the church and have to pay a tax to fund religious activities. Anybody who opts out of this has to pay a fee to the German government.

No probs with jnr doing RE, there are a lot of religious people in the world so understanding their beliefs is probably a good thing. A publicly funded school stipulating adherence or even just observance of their faith whilst teaching their beliefs as [s]gospel[/s] truth is absolutely unacceptable to me though. No way would I sign that agreement, and I'd let it be known that I intended to escalate it as far up as possible unless a mutually acceptable solution be found.