[Closed] Cars, tyres, and drivers education

I then started thinking about the drivers’ education programme that I had to go through back in 1987 in Manitoba.

Accidental partridge quote-a-rama.

I guess we're predisposed to giving a shit about tyres and traction on here, but undoubtedly ignorant people think its the shape of the car that's a testament to how capable it is in crappy conditions (small hatch with skinny tyres anyone - cheaper if you do bounce it off a dry stone wall too!!)

I went rallying in Wales in an Escort and we all had a razz around happy as Larry, the instructor asked us how we felt / how it went and after the general self-approval hit peak he bollocked us all for not brake testing it. That stuck with me.

I'm surprised there aren't more spot checks on tyres. Presumably whomever has enforcement powers could just walk around a car park poking tyres with a gauge, taking the odd photo then issuing fines and points.

Tyres and brakes, never stint on these items. But then I grew up helping my father keep old and tired cars on the road and whilst there was never much money, he always went on about how important contact patches are so never bought ditchfinders and I guess it rubbed off on me.
He also took the view when looking at second hand cars, whether private sale or at a dealers, to check the tyres and if they were missmatched just walk away as if the owner couldn’t be bothered to look after this essential aspect then what would the rest of the car have been treated like?
I always change the tyres when they get to about 3mm or a fraction less, and make sure they are good quality and matched across the axle and the vehicle. But then I can afford it for which I am very grateful.

i think a lot of people spend a large proportion of their take home £ on a (second hand) car payment, so when it is time to put 4 tyres on their expensive q7 or whatever (an easy grand for decent stuff) they cannot afford it. hence the 35 quid membat passions smiling on the road my wifes v70 had when we bought it. grimacing into a ditch more like.
i bought a 600 quid ibiza to drive to work and immediately put 4 brand new premium tyres on it, some people thought i was mad, but the worth of the car doesnt change how quickly it will stop in the rain.

SaxonRider
Full Member

That said, I am continually amazed by how many vehicles out there that are in the same state: say, generally good condition, but with no-name brand tyres made for God-knows-what season, or else completely bald. Unbelievable.

90% of all used subarus ever come with mismatched tyres. One will be brand new but a ditchfinder, one is generally a high quality winter tyre, at least one will have cracks. It's just the law.

I could kind of understand it with my sheddy old mondeo, it had sheddy old car tyres on. But who the hell goes "I'll buy this 280bhp AWD sporty car and spec the suspension upgrades and add a stiffer roll bar... And then fit these tyres I found in a river" When you put the foot down on my Legacy it went in 4 different directions at the same time.

he bollocked us all for not brake testing it.

Bizarre, what did he want? You know you've got a brake pedal before you move off. You also know the car's got a dual master cylinder and the first light dab on the brakes will tell you if you've got all four working. I usually grab a bit of handbrake to find out how much effort it takes to lock the rears and then it's just a case of progessively learning about the brakes as you pick up the pace, just as you do with every other aspect of the car. Sounds like an instructor being a dick.

Brakes on a rally car need constant adaption anyhow. They require more effort cold, bite better as they warm up, tend to cool on long straights or up hill especially in the wet. You're constantly adapting - brake testing teaches you **** all. The pressure you apply to the pedal is in a constant feedback loop, the G you feel in response to pedal input. It requires no thought, it just happens as a response to what you're seeing and feeling. If you're thinking about it it's usually because you've made and error of appreciation and are struggling to kill speed, the rest of the time it's just part of the flow.

Sounds like an instructor being a dick

You're overthinking it - it was essentially that we were only interested in how quick it would go, not how quick it would stop. This was after the initial acclimatisation, we spent the rest of the afternoon 'getting good'. And it wasn't really a bollocking, more a big put down.

I think worrying about tyres and equipment whilst important is not the most important thing, and for people like the typical STW forum user it can be a distraction.

Hands down the most important thing you can do when driving is watch what you are doing, drive carefully, moderately, defensively, and anticipate what might go wrong at all times. In other words, take it seriously. That should be the key message that people need to learn IMO.

I've gone from having 4 different (some budget no name whatevers) to a full set of premiums for the first time. Can I tell the difference? No. It went round corners before. I can't recall it ever breaking traction. Maybe you have to go round corners at more than the speed limit notice the difference.

you will the first time you have to do an E stop in the rain

Don't think its a British issue I think its just the direction the world is going. Everything is only about monetary cost to them and no thought towards bigger picture at all. I think we are also moving away from a culture that cares about doing things yourself but instead to outsource them to someone else.

When I learned to drive ~15 years ago the government bought in a requirement to understand some basic workings of a car. ie I had to know where to put washer fluid or how check and top up engine oil etc ... But it was a very quick please describe and point how you would do this. I think we should've had to do some of it practically. Not just point where the dip stick is and give a vague description.

I think a large proportion of people couldn't give a hoot about maintaining their car. They just keep driving until a spanner symbol pops up and says its due a service or the dealer calls them up asking when they can book you in.

Doubt many have read the manual to see what the service intervals are or even if there are different types of service requirements at different stages. They think its just something that happens every year and not according to mileage.

To them a service is a service and round black tyre is a round black tyre. They ask how much; and go for the lowest bid. Ignore all other factors such quality of work or what's included.

Don't think its an education thing I think its a cultural thing, we just want things for lowest price and completed in the quickest amount of time. I also don't think we hold onto things for as long as we did and get a new shiny thing. This means that the initial purchaser rarely gets to see the mid to long term effects from not sticking to the service schedule properly or from using poor quality parts. So to them cost cutting had no bad effects so they will just continue to do it.

Don't think I've done an e stop since my test 20 years ago!

Hands down the most important thing you can do when driving is watch what you are doing, drive carefully, moderately, defensively, and anticipate what might go wrong at all times. In other words, take it seriously. That should be the key message that people need to learn IMO.

Good point and usually applies to most things in life. Avoiding a bad situation all together is better than relying on having super skills or equipment to get you out that bad situation.

eg first lesson in self defence is to not get into the fight and to run away if possible.

Cars are a status symbol in the UK, but status is conferred by the badge on the bonnet and the size of the car.

Apart from car geeks nobody really cares if their car has Ling Longs, Devanti, Hi-Flis, Landsails or whatever other shite Kwik Fit have in stock that week.

Having a set of Pilot Sports or CrossClimates doesn't score you anymore status points and the vast majority of people would struggle to understand or notice the difference.

I used to be really into my cars and motorbikes, but just don't have any interest anymore. The tyres get replaced with the make/model which were fitted when it came out of the showroom and I don't even do basic maintenance. Putting some screen wash in and air in the tyres when the relevant warning lights come on is about the limit.

I’ve gone from having 4 different (some budget no name whatevers) to a full set of premiums for the first time. Can I tell the difference? No.

Maybe you or the vehicle are not sensitive enough or maybe you are driving well within the limits as you should be to notice or maybe your budget tyres where actually quite good?

Also the difference is more than grip levels, you have noise, wear rate, fuel economy to also take into account.

I can certainly feel difference in tyres keeping within the speed limits and keeping within what the conditions and situation determines. I'm not saying I'm some tyre guru or driving god. I'm not saying when I was on the poor tyres I was constantly on the edge of crashing, just in my experience there can be a big difference between tyres at normal tyres.

You very rarely need all seasons or snow tyres. But the peace of mind of knowing you can get home when you do is worth it.

I got home that day. Going up Maryhill Road at 7pm I had it almost to myself Took 30 minutes to dig out the drive to get the car off the road.

Three or four years ago I was on untreated hilly snow covered roads for 20 miles coming home from Torridon on New Year's Day.

All it takes is one bump avoided and the difference in cost between all seasons and summers is paid a few times over. Like insurance.

But if given the choice between £400 for all seasons or £250 for budget ditchfinders many people will save the £150

I would hazard a guess that the climatic extremes are more severe in Manitoba than most of the UK.

four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns… basically everything that tortures my tyre-nerd soul.

exactly like mine. Don’t give a shit, car drives fine, doesn’t skid, I drive according to the conditions (mostly). Petrolheads on here seem obsessed with car tyres. Its weird, never met anyone in “real life” like that. Or maybe I have and they’re just not the sort of people I associate with 😂

Maybe you or the vehicle are not sensitive enough

I’m definitely not. I can only aspire to be so awesome

I am actively looking to notice the difference, but I'm struggling to find any! Maybe the road noise is slightly improved, but it's very hard to tell. I don't think I do enough miles to notice wear rate and economy.

Don’t think I’ve done an e stop since my test 20 years ago!

This, I do enough miles a year to require a new vehicle every 4 years and have done since about 1993.
Very rarely have I needed to do an emergency stop, have driven all sorts of crap with miss matched tyres without issue.
Very few actually push the brake pedal hard enough to fully utilize the brakes fully, as I found out when the autobrake kicked on on a VW caddy (the one and only time I've experienced it).
The only time I've been caught out was driving a 1990 escort van, empty in the wet. It was a pool van, I was the new guy, so I jumped in it, drove it to the job and following my supervisor on the way home, I braked for tee junction as he did, there was a slight bend and I understeered straight off the road.
Turns out it locked up really easily when empty. Nothing really wrong with it, aside being awful and me inexperienced.

I was out walking today, and because I have a new-to-me car myself, was taking particular note of the parked cars I was passing as I proceeded to my destination. When I bought mine (a 2004 Volvo XC90 in immaculate condition with extremely low miles), I was taken aback by the fact that, while the previous owner had clearly spared no expense keeping the vehicle in good condition, s/he also had no idea as to the importance of proper tyres. It has four new tyres on it, but four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns… basically everything that tortures my tyre-nerd soul.

* Waves at a fellow tyre nerd *

If you want the ultimate sign of a car bought purely for show look at the tyres on any Sporty car or SUV that's a few years old. Guarantee you'll see loads with knackered tyres in dangerous condition or fitted with incredibly cheap Chinese no-name ones with horrific wear patterns. I always remember observing a customer at a tyre place while mine were being changed a few years ago. Guy walks in wanting a puncture repaired on his big Audi SUV, SQ7 I think. The guy went out and saw the state of the tyre and said it's beyond repair due to being a nail through the sidewall and also being bald. He asked the customer what type of tyre he wanted to replace it and the customer said "The same as what's on it." which were Continentals, price was £210 a tyre and he needed two as both fronts were bald. The customer then proceeded to shout and get all animated with a rant about how the tyres on one of his old cars were £30 each and that they were trying to rip him off. The guy behind the desk then just calmly said "Well we can get some budget options for £90 a tyre for this afternoon, they're called Autogrip." Of course the customer went for those and left his SUV there to pick it up later. As I was paying for my tyres I asked the guy behind the counter if that was normal and he said it happens every day without fail, usually with lease cars. He also said the Autogrip tyres were crap and would last only a few thousand miles so were actually more expensive overall but people just can't see that. He did say he was always happy to deal with customers like me who order premium tyres for mundane cars as they're nearly always a pleasure to deal with.

He also took the view when looking at second hand cars, whether private sale or at a dealers, to check the tyres and if they were missmatched just walk away as if the owner couldn’t be bothered to look after this essential aspect then what would the rest of the car have been treated like?

I've done that, more than a few times!

. It has four new tyres on it, but four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns…

I’m not sure different brands makes any real difference, certainly I’ve had mismatched brands on cars which would on occasion be driven much harder than most cars on the road (surveillance cars with covert blue lights and sirens fitted) and it makes no difference.

Petrolheads on here seem obsessed with car tyres.

It all depends on your priorities doesn’t it. I think it’s important, others don’t. Some people get obsessed with getting the smartest of smartphones, or the latest ebike or insert any thing that matters to you that others think a waste of money. I don’t buy lots of clothes, I don’t eat out or get takeaways very often, I have a cheap Motorola phone etc. Etc. but I will spend an extra £30 per tyre every two or three years because I think it’s worth it. I am quite comfortable being a boring car tyre nerd.

I once listened to somebody at work exclaim their surprise about their car getting a bit squirrely in the snow on the motorway, because it was 4wd...

It's that kind of misplaced confidence that leads to people ending up upside down in ditches.

I tend to agree with above comment about tyres being a bit of a distraction from bigger dangers, and I'm a matching tyres person - in fact I have 2 sets. I'm a believer in more education though.

@kilo

Tend to agree on brands. I have also driven blue light cars with mixed brands. All premium though.

The big difference is between good tyres and cheap tyres in the wet and summer and all seasons on snow

I have been reading tyre reviews recently, the ones where they test tyres in controlled conditions on tracks with real cars. I've only been reading about premium tyres. One test found that in the wet a particular tyre took 7m longer to stop than the best; and when the best had stopped this tyre was still doing 23mph.

Now you can appreciate that the difference between hitting something (or someone) at 23mph is clearly a lot worse than stopping just in front of it (or them). And that hitting something (or someone) at 46mph is a lot worse than hitting it (or them) at 46mph. And these are all top brand premium tyres.

You may not do emergency stops all the time, but there's a fair chance you'll do one one day, and you have to ask how fast you'd like to stop in that situation.

My wife did one yesterday morning whilst I was in the car. We were driving up a 20mph road on the way to a school and a young lad was cycling up the pavement to our right at a fair clip in my wife's blind spot. We approached a crossing and he swerved left as if he was going to bomb across the crossing, or more likely our bonnet. We'd slowed right down of course as it was a crossing but she still hit the anchors hard. He didn't use the crossing as it happens he was just avoiding something.

If you've never done an emergency stop in 20 years of driving you're either lucky, oblivious, or perhaps both!

Don’t give a shit, car drives fine, doesn’t skid,

Almost any car will skid if you brake hard enough. I've driven a fair few cars, and I actually brake test them on empty roads in a variety of conditions so I know what to expect. And yes, they all skid, more on shit tyres and less on good tyres. It's really concerning that you think your car doesn't skid.

FWIW I am not sure different brands makes much difference in modern cars with ESP, but I do think it matters that they are decent.

You probably should keep your concern for something that really matters.

Very few actually push the brake pedal hard enough to fully utilize the brakes

Lots of cars have a feature where if it detects a hard press of the brakes it slams them on all the way for you, for exactly this reason. Our Prius had it, it's called Emergency Brake Assist or something like that.

You probably should keep your concern for something that really matters.

Car crashes don't matter?

You very rarely need all seasons or snow tyres. But the peace of mind of knowing you can get home when you do is worth it.

Although I completely disagree with your first sentence, I very much appreciate your conclusion in the second. And that, frankly, is at least one of the most important points.

I struggle to feel the difference in my driving when I wear my seatbelt, but the peace of mind of knowing it will be there when I need it is invaluable. And to me, the analogy is almost exact. (At least until one of you points out how it isn't.) Proper tyres (and being properly equipped in other ways) are as much about being prepared as they are about being called on for use everyday. I also carry jump leads in both of my vehicles, along with other safety and maintenance gear. I have used them many times - not only for myself, but in order to help others.

I am quite comfortable being a boring car tyre nerd.

You want to start a club? 🙂

You can be President; I'll be Secretary.

Of course I've had to brake suddenly in 20 years, but I can't recall having to go 100% on the brakes in an instant, certainly not at any kind of significant speed. Don't think I've had the abs come on unless there's been gravel, snow or mud, and in those circumstances it's always at low speed.

I'll try a brake test next time I'm out on a clear road (in good conditions!).

Over the years you have posted some quite amusing threads about why you thought Canada did it better. The milk carton one and something to do with schooling too I think. These opinions I have always thought hilarious as people pointed out why you were wrong 😂

However. This. I agree with totally not so much the specifics about tyres etc but just driver training in general. You pass at 17/18 you can then quite feasibly spend the next 60 years of your life driving about and doing what you think you remember and at no point does anyone check up on you. My grandad didn't even take a test he was old enough to to have to apply for a licence!

You only have to look at sliproads and queues to realise people do not understand the rules and the concepts that make everything work smoothly. With maintenance etc the only time you'll be called out on it unless you are really unlucky is an MOT and then you just have to fix it. I reckon if your MOT has noticeable faults the frequency of testing should go up.

The principle here applies to mixing tyre qualities as well, insofar as you have good, non-squirmy, tyres up front, and rubbish tyres with poor grip on the back, you get the same effect. Driving 101.

@joshvegas: I certainly don't mind learning that I'm wrong. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I open certain threads. If I turn out to be right with an opinion, it might contribute to others' thought; if I'm wrong, then I learn. It's a win-win!

I had the misfortune to have to use a n NHS pool car.  It had different tyres at each corner and was an utter pig.  Handled differently on lefts and rights and pulled to one side under braking - not harshly in the way if you have defective brakes but just gently

all4 tyres were cheapo dirtchfinders

fortunately I was not in that role long - if it had been permanent I would have done something about it.  Idid mention it and was told it was fine.  It wasn't

Crap tyres on cars scare the shit out of me.  On reason why I think bangernomics is stupid.  Even on a hire car I always check all 4 tyres

My last focus always had gash tyres, the back would slide out pretty damn easily on wet roads. I switched to cross climates with no further issues.

I have tyre OCD. All 4 tyres need to match and be of a half decent brand. Lowest brand I'll go for is Kumho, or Falken.

Sister in law's car has random ditch finders on it of different brands and never gets serviced. Yet she's paranoid about getting a safe car based on NCAP ratings but doesn't give a shit about tyres or brakes. She also moans that as it's a Seat it should be reliable but is forever breaking down. I have pointed out that preventative maintenance is better than reactive.

Similar issue with a Passat they had. Cam belt never got changed and she was surprised when the engine lunched itself.

As someone said above a lot of people will stretch buy what they perceive to be a well badged car but then can't afford to maintain it.

I’ve gone from having 4 different (some budget no name whatevers) to a full set of premiums for the first time. Can I tell the difference? No. It went round corners before. I can’t recall it ever breaking traction. Maybe you have to go round corners at more than the speed limit notice the difference.

I've had 3 different brand ditchfinders and all 4 the same on two different cars. Both were absolute dangers. The Civic would spin out (literally) if it hit anything wet or slippy on engine braking because the Savas it came with were like drift trike tyres. The bus that I have now just didn't stop for anything and ended up on a verge avoiding a car that thought the sequence was mirror, estop, manoeuvre.

Tyres are what I rely on to keep me, my family and other road users safe when all else fails, you're damn right I'm going to be concerned about them.

I just remembered how I was quickly taught the value of good quality tyres.

Back in 2001 I bought a 1993 Clio. I spent all my savings on it, £2700 so not an insignificant amount for a student! I knew it had cheap tyres on the front, Road Champ which were an ATS own-brand and Kwik Fit's own-brand Centaur on the rear. I could only afford to replace two with my preferred Michelins straight away so I put them on the rear as the Centaur's were near the legal limit, the fronts would be replaced on my next payday in 3 weeks time. In those three weeks I had to drive down to Exeter, in February so it was cold and damp with that horrid, greasy slime on the road. Coming off the motorway to go into Cullompton services I went to slow down at the end of the sliproad but the fronts just locked up and refused to start spinning again when I quickly released the brake pedal via cadence braking (no ABS). Smacked into the back of a Fiesta despite coming off the motorway at 50 and braking in plenty of time, so much so the driver behind me thought I'd had complete brake failure. Cue swapping of insurance details and a police car also showed up and breath-tested me, completely clear but even they couldn't understand how I'd failed to stop as the skid marks went on for ages and they were sure I would have needed to do a lot more than 50 mph to make ones that long. Fast forward to the insurers inspecting the car and they blamed the accident on "Sub-standard tyres fitted to the front wheels.", even trying to get out of paying for my repairs due to this. New Michelin's were fitted by the garage before I collected that car, on my instruction, and the guy who was there when I collected it said that they had real trouble getting the old tyres off as they were like plastic, despite having 7mm of tread and date marked as a year old.

I've never skimped on tyres since.

I have tyre OCD. All 4 tyres need to match and be of a half decent brand. Lowest brand I’ll go for is Kumho, or Falken.

Lowest I've gone recently was a set of Uniroyals a few years ago (very good but lasted just under 10k) and my current Toyo's which are again nice and grippy but wearing fast on the front. I'm relatively happy having different brands F-R if that's unaviodable (due to a tyre model changing or supply issues for example) but always the same across the axle. As long as they're premium brands then I'm pretty happy.

I then started thinking about the drivers’ education programme that I had to go through back in 1987 in Manitoba.

That explains an awful lot! In the southern parts of Britain, we might get Manitoba-like weather conditions once every 25-30 years! I’m 67, that sort of weather has happened twice. Once in 1962-3, and again in, I think, 1982.

FWIW, I had my old Octavia for fifteen years, and it only ever had budget tyres fitted. I only lost control once, and it was on a junction where I had to take a right turn, but that particular place flooded regularly, and if conditions suddenly turned cold, it was just a big sheet of ice. As the Octy was a diesel, with a manual ’box, I always used the engine to brake, shifting down very gently. On this occasion, despite only traveling at around 5mph, as I turned the wheel, I slid very gently onto the grass verge. Bugger-all I could do about it. Took ten minutes of rocking the car back and forth with the gearbox, before I got the car unstuck.

The current car will, very soon, be getting a set of all-season tyres on the front, which are now going to be Michelin CrossClimates+, due to a mixup with the suppliers sending gen1 Goodyear Vectors, instead of the gen 3’s I wanted, and which are unavailable at the moment; They’ve been getting lots of good reviews…

It’s interesting the comments about people driving big SUV’s, or performance-oriented cars with big rubber, and fitting the cheapest tyres they can find. Working where I do, which is a repair and refurbishment unit, now part of Cazoo, we’re seeing a lot more high-end cars, instead of the Motability and middle-range lease cars we used to get in, and I’ve been surprised at the sort of cars that get rejected and sent to auction. Among them have been an Audi RS6 Avant, a top-end Range Rover, and an Alfa Romeo Giulia Quatrofoglio. In the case of the Audi, the body repairs weren’t too significant, but it was the engine service and replacing the front discs and pads it also needed pushed it over budget. A new set of tyres could do it, if the margins are tight on repairs, one tyre on the Range Rover, which are the same size as the ones on the Audi was £358 - there was an invoice on the seat. The discs and pads for the Audi, IIRC, were about £1600…

When a set of tyres costs around £1300, I would think performance considerations take second place to budgetary ones!
It’s going to cost me significantly more for the new tyres, about £200, instead of about £120, but I’m not going to compromise any more, the Ford is more powerful than the Octavia, despite the engine being about half the size, plus I’m driving a hell of a lot more to work and back. Also, the car cost a lot more than the Skoda!

Generally go with premium end tyres, but there are occasionally good budgets to be had, but absolute guestimation as to what might be good. Had some very good and sticky Accelera branded tyres on a 944 - thought they would be the first thing changed, but turned out to be pretty grippy.

Rarely disappointed with premium type tyres though, they have wet weather performance, grip and last.

I’ve had cars with 4 different ditchfinders, bloody scary.
Bloody expensive too, because they wear out quickly. The only time they are cheap is the day you buy them.
I once had a ford orion, 1.6, 90bhp.
Not exactly a quick car, but it could spin the wheels easily in second, or third if it was wet. It was so bad that my wife thought I’d done something to the engine to get more power.
Thankfully, I never had to find out how it performed during an emergency stop.
Never had cheapo tyres since.

I think tyresake a huge difference - as someone else here said, I tend to buy old cars but put good tyres on ASAP and can 100% feel the difference.

Driver training back in the 'old days'/Canada? I'm pretty sure that driver training and tests are getting harder in the UK, not easier. Yes, new drivers are inexperienced (obviously), but they have probably had more training and know the highway code better than most middle-aged drivers. 'It was harder in my day' has been repeated since at least as far back as the ancient Greeks.

I’ve always gone for the cheapest premium brand for my cars, and matched on each axle but not necessarily front and rear.
Tend to end up with Goodyear or Dunlop which seem fine. No idea if the extra for Conti or Michelin is worth it mind you.

I enjoy my 911 best when the rears have no tread left.

This forum is the only place I ever hear the term 'winter tyres' mentioned

Like the OP I've always been concerned of what tyres I've got, and their condition - maybe it's an age thing (old enough to drive cross-plys) or maybe because I spent +30 years riding motorcycles (where crap tyres equal falling off).

I once succumbed to cheap tyres, when we were skint and my 309GTI had bald front tyres & an MOT due. It ran 185/55 15's, which in their day were very low profile and wide 🙂 They were ditched the next pay day for new Michelins as per the rears, horrific.

My current car is currently on its winters, Pirelli Sottozero's - and the summers are Bridgestone Polenza.

And to add to the initial comment about brake testing, something my Dad once said:
"Your brakes need to be more powerful than your engine"

He use to sell cars, and once told me a story; back in the 60's a customer didn't want a car with disc brakes as they'd be too good and folk behind would run in to them...

considering the amount of work an oem does to calibrate the ride and handling, abs and esp, and fuel ecomony im suprised you are not obliged to fit oem approved ones. you could certainly make the co2 worse than certified, so potentially making your tax band incorrect.

you could certainly make the co2 worse than certified

When my current car was new-ish I had a new set of tyres fitted by the dealer as a recall action because the OEM tyres "didn't meet the efficiency requirements of the car". I was somewhat dubious of the environmental impact of throwing away an 18 month old usable set of tyres in the name of efficiency but them's the rules.

Lowest brand I’ll go for is Kumho, or Falken.

When test driving a new car for Mrs R I was surprised that the dealer's demonstrator had Khumo Ecowings on it. I pointed out to the salesman that these seemed to be a bit rubbish and he said I was the first person that had ever noticed or commented on it, which I think tells you a lot about people's attitudes to tyres. The new car was delivered with Khumos on, and you can imagine the embarassment of the dealer when he tried to sell us £400 of tyre insurance. It turns out that Khumos were BMW's standard fitment for basic tyres at the time so I guess they can't be that bad.

Majority of drivers want a big shiny box that's bigger and shinier than their neighbours. And... that's it.

A few will care about the details.

FWIW I drive a fairly battered 20 year old runaround with a matching set of 4 reasonably branded all seasons.

As someone mentioned, I don't be requiring the restraining abilities of my seatbelt in the normal scheme of things, but when I do I imagine I'll be rather pleased for it being there. Tyres and brakes are the same.

There is a huge difference in grip, handling braking etc. between cheap tyres and the premium brands. Tyres are the single biggest thing that effect how your car interacts with the road surface and for all those saying that they can't tell the difference, or I only drive slowly, well you will eventually, in a critical situation when it matters most to you and the lives of others.

I think that anyone who skimps on tyres is putting not just themselves and their family at risk but also other people too. Imagine explaining to the mother of the child you've just hit because you couldn't stop in time due to your sh*t tyres how you also 'cannily' saved a couple of hundred quid.

Buy the best tyres you can afford or otherwise please don't drive anywhere near me or my family.

What's classed as a "ditch finder"?

A lot of the premium brands make the budget brands too. e.g.

The tyre division consists of the Continental, Uniroyal, Semperit, Barum, General Tire, Viking, Gislaved, Mabor, Matador and Sportiva brands.

https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/about-us/continental-tyres

Wow. Must make life pretty hard, checking all the tyres on cars near your family to make sure they are up to your rigorous standards. I mean, if you cared that much, surely that's what you'd do?

I'm sure most people are too busy sending whatsapp messages to hit the brakes anyway.

Wow. Must make life pretty hard, checking all the tyres on cars near your family to make sure they are up to your rigorous standards. I mean, if you cared that much, surely that’s what you’d do?

There would be no point. Clearly someone who fits sh*t tyres cares little for their own life or that of their friends or family. So why would they care about mine?

Ha ha! Fellow tyre nerd here. Walk through a car park & see all the fancy expensive brand fitted with LingLong tyres 🤣

I don't think it's necessary to go for all out premium brands though - there are also some very good brands with better value options. I've used Kumho and Matador before and found them pretty good.

A few years ago I had to get a puncture repair done at a local tyre place. While there 3 people came in all wanting tyres asap as there cars had failed the MOT as the tyres were bald. In one case, both front tyres were down to the canvas.
People just don't care about this kind of thing in general. It's funny how something so potentially important can be given zero thought.

It’s funny how something so potentially important can be given zero thought.

And good tyres don't have to be expensive. I've got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's on my RS3. Less than £600 a full set including fitting if you shop around. The bargain budget option was around £400 for the set. So £200 more for a whole lot of extra grip and a huge amount of peace of mind. A lot of people would spend a whole lot more than that just to shave a few grams of a bicycle.

I'll skip the tyre discussion and pick up on this:

(horrible, gory accident scenes, and details of what led to them)

I often wonder how many accidents could be avoided if there was a bit more effort put into educating drivers about common accident scenarios and how to avoid them. No need for any gore, just a bit of analysis of the mistakes that people commonly make. Not just generic, don't drive, don't speed stuff, but more specifics of particular situations.

For example, turning right across queuing traffic, queuing driver makes space/flashes lights, turning driver takes out a cyclist in the bus/cycle lane.

I suspect that are a relatively small number of scenarios that happen again and again, and whilst individual drivers don't make the same mistake twice, I suspect that there are many drivers who don't spot the risk until it happens to them or they've had a near miss.

If budget tyres are so risky, why are they allowed to be sold? Don't we have relatively high road safety standards in the UK? Presumably they need to meet a minimum level of performance to be legally sold.

I suspect it's bad driving rather than cheap tyres that cause more accidents.

aledrinker

And good tyres don’t have to be expensive. I’ve got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1’s on my RS3.

I've got a set of those, love the rim protector thingy. Already saved me from a kerb scuff.

Only thing is they're very much a summer tyre, there's quite a noticeable amount more wheelspin now we've started getting cold mornings. Wish in hindsight i'd waited for the v3 Vectors to come into stock.

davros

If budget tyres are so risky, why are they allowed to be sold? Don’t we have relatively high road safety standards in the UK? Presumably they need to meet a minimum level of performance to be legally sold.

Yeah, let's all just aim for the minimum.

When I bought my old Ibiza, the front tyres were almost bald at the test drive (I was reluctant to actually test drive it, but it was a dry day, so decided to risk it).
The seller agreed to put new tyres on & stuck the cheapest rubbish he could get hold of. I later found them on the Camskill website. Mid-brand tyres (Kumho, Matador etc) were around £65 and premium tyres were £85-110 for this size of tyre. The ones he had fitted were £33.

They were awful in anything other than warm & dry conditions. Accelerating off a roundabout on wet roads was almost comical in terms of the dire performance. Just normal acceleration off a large roundabout (not racing round mini-roundabouts foot to the floor) would have the wheels spinning in 3rd gear. I got rid of them after about a month. I never had to do any heavy braking in the wet in them, but I doubt it would have been pretty.

Now I'm worrying even more than usual about summer vs all-season.

The new inch wheels I bought for the car are intended to have 255/40 R18 on, according to the handbook. This results in a slightly larger diameter than the 285/30 R19 that came on it. All-seasons are not available in that size, but they are available in 245/40 R18 which is about the same as 285/30 R19 but they are narrower again. So if narrower tyres have less grip, am I better off with a narrow all-season or a wider summer, most of the time?

Am I even allowed to fit a size that's not specified in the handbook?

Am I even allowed to fit a size that’s not specified in the handbook?

Would your insurer not have an issue with this?

I'm not saying let's all buy the minimum performing, I'm asking whether the minimum standards aren't high enough.

But then we let people drive on public roads in cars that can do 150mph so maybe I'm putting too much faith in regulations.

I see many expensive cars with worn out tyres. I've advised a mate who is getting a new Merc GLC 4x4 to get it fitted with all seasons, as the pimped wide summer tyres will be useless where he lives (he was getting it cos of snow and ice and he lives on steep hill).

Just picked up a used Aygo for my daughter to learn in and bail son out whilst his car is off the road. Front's will need replacing, but at least it had 4 x Nexxen tyres on that are decent, and proved good in snow. What got me, it's passed it's MOT's fine every year, including recently, but the front discs/pads aren't in great shape, and by the looks of it, only half the pad is biting the disc (obvious by the ring of rust). Stops fine, but I've got a set on order and they will be changed ASAP.

@multi21
Coincidentally I couldn't find Falkens locally and just bought a pair of Vector v3. They're on offer on blackcircles for a pair or all four.

Am I even allowed to fit a size that’s not specified in the handbook?

I can't think you'll notice the difference between 245 and 255 profile. I doubt anyone will notice.

Caveat, I am not a legal expert in what happens after car smashes or insurance claims.

I often wonder how many accidents could be avoided if there was a bit more effort put into educating drivers about common accident scenarios and how to avoid them. No need for any gore, just a bit of analysis of the mistakes that people commonly make. Not just generic, don’t drive, don’t speed stuff, but more specifics of particular situations.

Have you ever been in a speed awareness course? If you have you'll know that a lot of drivers don't give a shit, even when presented with loads of facts, figures and scenarios wher their behaviour is bad it even dangerous.

I’m not saying let’s all buy the minimum performing, I’m asking whether the minimum standards aren’t high enough.

If you want to really scare yourself look at the BS standard for bicycle brakes. The cheap caliper brakes on some BSO's pass the test despite them merely suggesting the bike slows down! Tyres are the same, the standard is so low it's easy for most tyres to pass it. If it wasn't for the likes of Motorsport pushing the manufacturer's to research better construction, tread patterns and compounds that directly benefits their road products then we'd possibly still be running around on cross-ply doughnuts that aquaplane over a small puddle and are made of essentially plastic.

And good tyres don’t have to be expensive. I’ve got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1’s on my RS3. Less than £600 a full set including fitting if you shop around.

Hate to be the one to tell you, but £150 per tyre is expensive. I was at my local tyre place in Berwick yesterday with a flat (as a result of storm debris) that turned in to needing two new tyres as the tread was more worn than I had realised. The guy at the desk came across slightly embarrassed in telling me that the ones I was after would be £140ish each.
Most of the other customers were looking at that sort of amount for four tyres. Many people needing four were in discussion as to whether the front or back were more urgent as they could only afford one set of 'midrange' until the next payday.
Personally I have an interest in cars and always go for the top end options but it is important to remember that not everyone is in a position to spend several hundreds of pounds unexpectedly, or indeed at all.

On the SUV / cheap tyres point, ironically I suspect that an awful lot of them are fine with the cheap options as they are low mileage city based cars rarely driven at more than 40mph.

Contis on MrsF's car, and my 20 years old car running high performance 'mid range tyres by a Michelin company.

I too fell foul of some crap tyres many years ago. Big make on the rear, cheapo one on the front - didn't stop well. Swapped around(big mistake) and it spun out going round a corner in the wet at a sensible speed (no damage luckily). Never again.

Looking at All Seasons for the Aygo - they are only £50 a corner for Toyo's

Hate to be the one to tell you, but £150 per tyre is expensive. I was at my local tyre place in Berwick yesterday with a flat (as a result of storm debris) that turned in to needing two new tyres as the tread was more worn than I had realised. The guy at the desk came across slightly embarrassed in telling me that the ones I was after would be £140ish each

Best you don't tell them that decent MTB tyres are pushing £70 each 🙂

Bike tyres are stupid money !!

Have we had this video posted yet?

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

He tests all-season tyres but also includes a winter and summer specific tyre in the mix which is interesting.

In terms of wet braking, which is what I'm thinking about, at 4C the winter isn't particularly great, the summer is much worse but the all-seasons are top. At 15C the summer is better, but the difference is less than at 4C.

Have you ever been in a speed awareness course? If you have you’ll know that a lot of drivers don’t give a shit, even when presented with loads of facts, figures and scenarios wher their behaviour is bad it even dangerous.

It's not just tyres. There was some stat a while ago that reckoned that about 1/8 - 1/10 cars on the road would fail a roadside MOT with about 1/4 of those fails being immediate "stop driving" issues. Some of course will be something as simple as a cracked indicator cover but there'll be plenty that are very serious.

Most people don't know or don't care and many people can't afford expensive repairs even if they do find out that the car is critical hence the cheapest option - it's precisely why dodgy garages thrive and you end up in a catch-22 of a dangerous car being repaired to the lowest possible standard.

I got the bridgestones from that test. Only £260 for a set. Glad I don't need SUV tyres based on the prices mentioned above!

That suggests that all-seasons are significantly better than true winters for a typical UK winter. I could see myself getting all-seasons on a second set of wheels given where I live.