I’ve had cars with 4 different ditchfinders, bloody scary.
Bloody expensive too, because they wear out quickly. The only time they are cheap is the day you buy them.
I once had a ford orion, 1.6, 90bhp.
Not exactly a quick car, but it could spin the wheels easily in second, or third if it was wet. It was so bad that my wife thought I’d done something to the engine to get more power.
Thankfully, I never had to find out how it performed during an emergency stop.
Never had cheapo tyres since.
I think tyresake a huge difference - as someone else here said, I tend to buy old cars but put good tyres on ASAP and can 100% feel the difference.
Driver training back in the 'old days'/Canada? I'm pretty sure that driver training and tests are getting harder in the UK, not easier. Yes, new drivers are inexperienced (obviously), but they have probably had more training and know the highway code better than most middle-aged drivers. 'It was harder in my day' has been repeated since at least as far back as the ancient Greeks.
I’ve always gone for the cheapest premium brand for my cars, and matched on each axle but not necessarily front and rear.
Tend to end up with Goodyear or Dunlop which seem fine. No idea if the extra for Conti or Michelin is worth it mind you.
I enjoy my 911 best when the rears have no tread left.
This forum is the only place I ever hear the term 'winter tyres' mentioned
Like the OP I've always been concerned of what tyres I've got, and their condition - maybe it's an age thing (old enough to drive cross-plys) or maybe because I spent +30 years riding motorcycles (where crap tyres equal falling off).
I once succumbed to cheap tyres, when we were skint and my 309GTI had bald front tyres & an MOT due. It ran 185/55 15's, which in their day were very low profile and wide 🙂 They were ditched the next pay day for new Michelins as per the rears, horrific.
My current car is currently on its winters, Pirelli Sottozero's - and the summers are Bridgestone Polenza.
And to add to the initial comment about brake testing, something my Dad once said:
"Your brakes need to be more powerful than your engine"
He use to sell cars, and once told me a story; back in the 60's a customer didn't want a car with disc brakes as they'd be too good and folk behind would run in to them...
considering the amount of work an oem does to calibrate the ride and handling, abs and esp, and fuel ecomony im suprised you are not obliged to fit oem approved ones. you could certainly make the co2 worse than certified, so potentially making your tax band incorrect.
you could certainly make the co2 worse than certified
When my current car was new-ish I had a new set of tyres fitted by the dealer as a recall action because the OEM tyres "didn't meet the efficiency requirements of the car". I was somewhat dubious of the environmental impact of throwing away an 18 month old usable set of tyres in the name of efficiency but them's the rules.
Lowest brand I’ll go for is Kumho, or Falken.
When test driving a new car for Mrs R I was surprised that the dealer's demonstrator had Khumo Ecowings on it. I pointed out to the salesman that these seemed to be a bit rubbish and he said I was the first person that had ever noticed or commented on it, which I think tells you a lot about people's attitudes to tyres. The new car was delivered with Khumos on, and you can imagine the embarassment of the dealer when he tried to sell us £400 of tyre insurance. It turns out that Khumos were BMW's standard fitment for basic tyres at the time so I guess they can't be that bad.
Majority of drivers want a big shiny box that's bigger and shinier than their neighbours. And... that's it.
A few will care about the details.
FWIW I drive a fairly battered 20 year old runaround with a matching set of 4 reasonably branded all seasons.
As someone mentioned, I don't be requiring the restraining abilities of my seatbelt in the normal scheme of things, but when I do I imagine I'll be rather pleased for it being there. Tyres and brakes are the same.
There is a huge difference in grip, handling braking etc. between cheap tyres and the premium brands. Tyres are the single biggest thing that effect how your car interacts with the road surface and for all those saying that they can't tell the difference, or I only drive slowly, well you will eventually, in a critical situation when it matters most to you and the lives of others.
I think that anyone who skimps on tyres is putting not just themselves and their family at risk but also other people too. Imagine explaining to the mother of the child you've just hit because you couldn't stop in time due to your sh*t tyres how you also 'cannily' saved a couple of hundred quid.
Buy the best tyres you can afford or otherwise please don't drive anywhere near me or my family.
What's classed as a "ditch finder"?
A lot of the premium brands make the budget brands too. e.g.
The tyre division consists of the Continental, Uniroyal, Semperit, Barum, General Tire, Viking, Gislaved, Mabor, Matador and Sportiva brands.
https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/about-us/continental-tyres
Wow. Must make life pretty hard, checking all the tyres on cars near your family to make sure they are up to your rigorous standards. I mean, if you cared that much, surely that's what you'd do?
I'm sure most people are too busy sending whatsapp messages to hit the brakes anyway.
Wow. Must make life pretty hard, checking all the tyres on cars near your family to make sure they are up to your rigorous standards. I mean, if you cared that much, surely that’s what you’d do?
There would be no point. Clearly someone who fits sh*t tyres cares little for their own life or that of their friends or family. So why would they care about mine?
Ha ha! Fellow tyre nerd here. Walk through a car park & see all the fancy expensive brand fitted with LingLong tyres 🤣
I don't think it's necessary to go for all out premium brands though - there are also some very good brands with better value options. I've used Kumho and Matador before and found them pretty good.
A few years ago I had to get a puncture repair done at a local tyre place. While there 3 people came in all wanting tyres asap as there cars had failed the MOT as the tyres were bald. In one case, both front tyres were down to the canvas.
People just don't care about this kind of thing in general. It's funny how something so potentially important can be given zero thought.
It’s funny how something so potentially important can be given zero thought.
And good tyres don't have to be expensive. I've got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's on my RS3. Less than £600 a full set including fitting if you shop around. The bargain budget option was around £400 for the set. So £200 more for a whole lot of extra grip and a huge amount of peace of mind. A lot of people would spend a whole lot more than that just to shave a few grams of a bicycle.
I'll skip the tyre discussion and pick up on this:
(horrible, gory accident scenes, and details of what led to them)
I often wonder how many accidents could be avoided if there was a bit more effort put into educating drivers about common accident scenarios and how to avoid them. No need for any gore, just a bit of analysis of the mistakes that people commonly make. Not just generic, don't drive, don't speed stuff, but more specifics of particular situations.
For example, turning right across queuing traffic, queuing driver makes space/flashes lights, turning driver takes out a cyclist in the bus/cycle lane.
I suspect that are a relatively small number of scenarios that happen again and again, and whilst individual drivers don't make the same mistake twice, I suspect that there are many drivers who don't spot the risk until it happens to them or they've had a near miss.
If budget tyres are so risky, why are they allowed to be sold? Don't we have relatively high road safety standards in the UK? Presumably they need to meet a minimum level of performance to be legally sold.
I suspect it's bad driving rather than cheap tyres that cause more accidents.
aledrinker
And good tyres don’t have to be expensive. I’ve got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1’s on my RS3.
I've got a set of those, love the rim protector thingy. Already saved me from a kerb scuff.
Only thing is they're very much a summer tyre, there's quite a noticeable amount more wheelspin now we've started getting cold mornings. Wish in hindsight i'd waited for the v3 Vectors to come into stock.
davros
If budget tyres are so risky, why are they allowed to be sold? Don’t we have relatively high road safety standards in the UK? Presumably they need to meet a minimum level of performance to be legally sold.
Yeah, let's all just aim for the minimum.
When I bought my old Ibiza, the front tyres were almost bald at the test drive (I was reluctant to actually test drive it, but it was a dry day, so decided to risk it).
The seller agreed to put new tyres on & stuck the cheapest rubbish he could get hold of. I later found them on the Camskill website. Mid-brand tyres (Kumho, Matador etc) were around £65 and premium tyres were £85-110 for this size of tyre. The ones he had fitted were £33.
They were awful in anything other than warm & dry conditions. Accelerating off a roundabout on wet roads was almost comical in terms of the dire performance. Just normal acceleration off a large roundabout (not racing round mini-roundabouts foot to the floor) would have the wheels spinning in 3rd gear. I got rid of them after about a month. I never had to do any heavy braking in the wet in them, but I doubt it would have been pretty.
Now I'm worrying even more than usual about summer vs all-season.
The new inch wheels I bought for the car are intended to have 255/40 R18 on, according to the handbook. This results in a slightly larger diameter than the 285/30 R19 that came on it. All-seasons are not available in that size, but they are available in 245/40 R18 which is about the same as 285/30 R19 but they are narrower again. So if narrower tyres have less grip, am I better off with a narrow all-season or a wider summer, most of the time?
Am I even allowed to fit a size that's not specified in the handbook?
Am I even allowed to fit a size that’s not specified in the handbook?
Would your insurer not have an issue with this?
I'm not saying let's all buy the minimum performing, I'm asking whether the minimum standards aren't high enough.
But then we let people drive on public roads in cars that can do 150mph so maybe I'm putting too much faith in regulations.
I see many expensive cars with worn out tyres. I've advised a mate who is getting a new Merc GLC 4x4 to get it fitted with all seasons, as the pimped wide summer tyres will be useless where he lives (he was getting it cos of snow and ice and he lives on steep hill).
Just picked up a used Aygo for my daughter to learn in and bail son out whilst his car is off the road. Front's will need replacing, but at least it had 4 x Nexxen tyres on that are decent, and proved good in snow. What got me, it's passed it's MOT's fine every year, including recently, but the front discs/pads aren't in great shape, and by the looks of it, only half the pad is biting the disc (obvious by the ring of rust). Stops fine, but I've got a set on order and they will be changed ASAP.
@multi21
Coincidentally I couldn't find Falkens locally and just bought a pair of Vector v3. They're on offer on blackcircles for a pair or all four.
Am I even allowed to fit a size that’s not specified in the handbook?
I can't think you'll notice the difference between 245 and 255 profile. I doubt anyone will notice.
Caveat, I am not a legal expert in what happens after car smashes or insurance claims.
I often wonder how many accidents could be avoided if there was a bit more effort put into educating drivers about common accident scenarios and how to avoid them. No need for any gore, just a bit of analysis of the mistakes that people commonly make. Not just generic, don’t drive, don’t speed stuff, but more specifics of particular situations.
Have you ever been in a speed awareness course? If you have you'll know that a lot of drivers don't give a shit, even when presented with loads of facts, figures and scenarios wher their behaviour is bad it even dangerous.
I’m not saying let’s all buy the minimum performing, I’m asking whether the minimum standards aren’t high enough.
If you want to really scare yourself look at the BS standard for bicycle brakes. The cheap caliper brakes on some BSO's pass the test despite them merely suggesting the bike slows down! Tyres are the same, the standard is so low it's easy for most tyres to pass it. If it wasn't for the likes of Motorsport pushing the manufacturer's to research better construction, tread patterns and compounds that directly benefits their road products then we'd possibly still be running around on cross-ply doughnuts that aquaplane over a small puddle and are made of essentially plastic.
And good tyres don’t have to be expensive. I’ve got a set of Goodyear Eagle F1’s on my RS3. Less than £600 a full set including fitting if you shop around.
Hate to be the one to tell you, but £150 per tyre is expensive. I was at my local tyre place in Berwick yesterday with a flat (as a result of storm debris) that turned in to needing two new tyres as the tread was more worn than I had realised. The guy at the desk came across slightly embarrassed in telling me that the ones I was after would be £140ish each.
Most of the other customers were looking at that sort of amount for four tyres. Many people needing four were in discussion as to whether the front or back were more urgent as they could only afford one set of 'midrange' until the next payday.
Personally I have an interest in cars and always go for the top end options but it is important to remember that not everyone is in a position to spend several hundreds of pounds unexpectedly, or indeed at all.
On the SUV / cheap tyres point, ironically I suspect that an awful lot of them are fine with the cheap options as they are low mileage city based cars rarely driven at more than 40mph.
Contis on MrsF's car, and my 20 years old car running high performance 'mid range tyres by a Michelin company.
I too fell foul of some crap tyres many years ago. Big make on the rear, cheapo one on the front - didn't stop well. Swapped around(big mistake) and it spun out going round a corner in the wet at a sensible speed (no damage luckily). Never again.
Looking at All Seasons for the Aygo - they are only £50 a corner for Toyo's
Hate to be the one to tell you, but £150 per tyre is expensive. I was at my local tyre place in Berwick yesterday with a flat (as a result of storm debris) that turned in to needing two new tyres as the tread was more worn than I had realised. The guy at the desk came across slightly embarrassed in telling me that the ones I was after would be £140ish each
Best you don't tell them that decent MTB tyres are pushing £70 each 🙂
Bike tyres are stupid money !!
Have we had this video posted yet?
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
He tests all-season tyres but also includes a winter and summer specific tyre in the mix which is interesting.
In terms of wet braking, which is what I'm thinking about, at 4C the winter isn't particularly great, the summer is much worse but the all-seasons are top. At 15C the summer is better, but the difference is less than at 4C.
Have you ever been in a speed awareness course? If you have you’ll know that a lot of drivers don’t give a shit, even when presented with loads of facts, figures and scenarios wher their behaviour is bad it even dangerous.
It's not just tyres. There was some stat a while ago that reckoned that about 1/8 - 1/10 cars on the road would fail a roadside MOT with about 1/4 of those fails being immediate "stop driving" issues. Some of course will be something as simple as a cracked indicator cover but there'll be plenty that are very serious.
Most people don't know or don't care and many people can't afford expensive repairs even if they do find out that the car is critical hence the cheapest option - it's precisely why dodgy garages thrive and you end up in a catch-22 of a dangerous car being repaired to the lowest possible standard.
I got the bridgestones from that test. Only £260 for a set. Glad I don't need SUV tyres based on the prices mentioned above!
That suggests that all-seasons are significantly better than true winters for a typical UK winter. I could see myself getting all-seasons on a second set of wheels given where I live.
So genuine question why aren't there "all season" motorcycle tyres? My suspicions are:-
1. There isn't the market for them.
2. The difference is covered by being sport or touring tyres instead.
Oh & before you say it, yes we do ride in the snow too.
There seems to be a huge difference is price depending when all seasons are bought. I got a pair of 215/55 R17 Goodyear Vectors on offer from Costco in Sept at £105 each.
No all seasons in stock at Costco just now in that size. Black Circles quoting £145 each.
Ignoring the brand status anxieties for a moment, theres another little game you can play the next time you're idly riding or walking past a line of parked cars...spot how many cars are sat there on tyres with bulging sidewalls under the weight because they likely have about half the required PSI in them. Once you notice it you'll see it everywhere. There certainly seems to be an increase in frequency of the type of moron who has such low level of awareness and personal responsibility that they'll happily jump in the 2 tonne killing machine and drive off at motorway speeds while never having checked the pressure from the day the tyre was installed. In my mind these people are not worthy of owning a driving license. In a way modern cars have become so adept at isolating the driver from the driving experience that many seem to go about operating them with a similar mental bandwidth as they'd allocate to loading the dishwasher.
Not a tyre nerd. When I bought my Vespa it had two brand new Avon tyres. In anything other than dry and warm and they were awful and I dreaded riding in the wet or a mid ride shower. It always felt like it was about to slide out from underneath me.
Switched them for a pair of Michelin tyres and it completely changed the bike. Fantastic grip wet or dry.
Put Michelins on the car too - I won't bother with cheap tyres again. My Mrs on the other hand couldn't give a monkeys.
I suspect it’s bad driving rather than cheap tyres that cause more accidents.
Probably, yes. But how much of that bad driving would be mitigated with a decent set of tyres?
I’m not saying let’s all buy the minimum performing, I’m asking whether the minimum standards aren’t high enough.
Given the garbage that passes Construction and Use as an indicator (you know the type, clear glass inboard and right against the headlight that you can't see) then I'd suggest they aren't.
I could see myself getting all-seasons on a second set of wheels given where I live.
Or just get them as an all year set, my Cross Climates and Nexen somethingorothers have been fine so far.
Dickyboy
Full MemberSo genuine question why aren’t there “all season” motorcycle tyres? My suspicions are:-
1. There isn’t the market for them.
2. The difference is covered by being sport or touring tyres instead.Oh & before you say it, yes we do ride in the snow too.
Well, truth is hardly anyone does ride in the snow. So it'll be a titchy market, and smaller still in the UK. I was almost an all-weather, year-round rider but snow was where I drew the line whenever possible, just too dodgy and too many ****ing idiots out there, I found it really hard to ride how I wanted to ride with others around. Bad enough in a car! And that still puts me in a tiny minority.
There are M&S street motorbike tyres though- Dunlop Mutants, those Anlass ones that look like Roadtecs with sipes, probably others I've not seen. They're supposed to be winter tyres but I reckon they basically fall into "allseason" by comparison with cars- just because of the different capabilities.
So yeah I reckon you're right and most people's idea of "allseason" is really a touring/sport touring tyre.
And bikers being what we are, people are way more likely to buy inappropriate super-sticky rubber than sensible everyday road tyres. Or at the other extreme, put big blocky allterrain tyres on big trailies that'll never go further off road than a bike show car park, because they look right. I don't know what proportion of bikes are actually on their ideal tyre but I bet it's pretty small.
Also, I'm not a motorcyclist but - winter tyres still give a bit on snow. When trundling about gently this isn't a problem in a car but even a bit of slippage would be pretty bad on a motorbike I'd imagine.
There are M&S street motorbike tyres though- Dunlop Mutants, those Anlass ones that look like Roadtecs with sipes, probably others I’ve not seen. They’re supposed to be winter tyres but I reckon they basically fall into “allseason” by comparison with cars- just because of the different capabilities.
Thanks those Dunlop mutants look like the sort of thing I'll be after come next tyre change.
Riding in the snow is fun... but only on the right bike & to be fair I've not been an all year biker for 30 odd yrs but I still have some fond memories of epic journeys that would prob kill me these days.
I had Cross Climes on my last car and they were a bit more to buy but gave better fuel economy and lasted longer than the summer tyres they replaced. Overall, they were cheaper than summer tyres.
The current car is on its OE tyres but will get Cross Climes come the day.
You motorbikers need to embrace studs, so last decade you lot. Two sets here for my MTB's. Currently commuting on my 26" MTB with studs now, getting icy on the canal.
