[Closed] Car problem- wierd vibration

You can drive through vibration on balancing, but perhaps you weren't going fast enough (and didn't want to).
It clearly set up some big wobbles if it followed down to 40mph.

Has it always done it, or is it new?

Started a week ago- I dropped to 4th, floored it then changed back up and it 'disappeared' again. Shrugged and carried on. On Sat though it started again and progressively got worse and worse' yesterday (on sliproad/40mph).

I really really wanted to ride again yesterday 👿 😳

Ps. I didnt want to drive through the vibration as the car/vibration was really bad. I've driven a couple of cars with bad balancing and this was alot worse- almost as though the engine was loose!

Are any of your wheel nuts loose? I had that happen on one of my cars, and it didn't feel like you thought it would

Have you had new tyres fitted at one end?, 4WD systems don't like it if the difference in tread depth is great, it changes the rolling radius & the car thinks one wheel is going faster than another.

Checked the wheelnuts. 2unfit2ride all tyres are same age (except one on the rear but that was changed c2,000miles ago).

If it was say a dodgy engine mounting- you'd feel vibration at all times?

Could it be a faulty mass air flow sensor? The greater the speed etc? (I am guessing here)

TBH, there are to many variables to guess, engine/gearbox mount would notice if you went through the revs with the car stationary, only rolling/suspension stuff would be speed dependent, try dipping the clutch/putting it in neutral whilst the vibration is happening to see if its engine related.

One tyre warped/flat spot? Loose engine mount? Loose aero undertray? Could be many things!

Seems pretty likely to be the front wheels / tyres in one way or another, whether it's unevenly worn tyres or unbalanced wheels. Swap the rear tyres onto the front and get the wheels alligned, should solve the problem.

Sound like a CV joint - they sometimes smooth out when the speed/load are right but have a hard time staying smooth when the load is applied and then dropped ie - when accelerating and deccelarating. I've had a cv joint and an engine mount go on one of my cars and the engine mount porblem feels like teh cars is trying to kangaroo around more than vibrate.

Cheers guys. Marmoset, is it possible to self-diagnose a cv joint? Jack the car and where do you check for play?(what parts do you hold when 'wiggling'?)....

I just want to avoid the 'hours' that a garage may add onto a bill whilst they diagnose a problem! 😉

it'll take them about 10 seconds to tell you if it's a CV joint or not

Just had a quick google- there is no clicking/noise on lock to lock

What kind of centre diff does it have? There could be a problem with that - I know some haldex diffs do wear out pretty quickly, also have a quick look at the universal joints on the driveshafts..

You haven't locked your little dog in the boot and forgotten about him, have you?

(Calls RSPCA)

Hora, where abouts are you ? I have a four poster ramp which we could get it on and have a good look around. I'm in Nottingham.
Not sure about Subaru's but you may have balancing weight's on the longer of the drive shaft's, you could check to see if one is loose or has fallen off. Who fitted the new clutch btw?

Hi Gravy, thank you for the kind offer, I'm in Manchester though. A Subaru indie fitted the clutch.

it sounds like a universal joint, on my old truck I had the same symptoms and checked it by clambering underneath and seeing if there was any lateral play in the joints, that was pretty easy to do as it was high off the ground and crawling around under it didn't require a jack, there also weren't any trays or things in the way?

Sounds like a wheel bearing.

There is only a sump guard at the front. I had a peak under yesterday. Any idea what it looks like? Is that an expensive mechanical job on a vehicle - i.e do you have to remove alot (man hours) to get to change?? 😕

takisawa2- it cant be. There are none of these signs:
[i]A classic symptom of a bad wheel bearing is noise, so if a wheel is making "funny" noises when driving (squeaks, chirps, squeals, moans, etc.), or you hear a grinding noise when turning, it may indicate a bad wheel bearing. Other symptoms include steering wander or possibly a pull to one side when braking.[/i]

have you walked round it, grabbed each wheel and given it a good hard wobble to see if anythings moving?
guess it could be a wheel bearing?
does it make any other noises if you steer hard left or right?
if you've got alloy wheels - are they buckled?

When was the last time you had the brake pads checked? Something similar happened to my Frontera a year or so ago when the nearside front caliper seized and wore all the pad material away.

It ended up being a recon caliper, but that was a lot cheaper that bearings, CV joints etc.

[i]have you walked round it, grabbed each wheel and given it a good hard wobble to see if anythings moving?[/i]
Yes.
[i]does it make any other noises if you steer hard left or right?[i/]
No noises.
[i]if you've got alloy wheels - are they buckled?[/i]
Steel wheels. I aint no pimpy 4x4 driver 8)

[i]when the nearside front caliper seized and wore all the pad material away.[/i]
Hmmmmmmmmm -it could be a sticking caliper however it'd pull surely to one side. Did yours pull?

If its a sticking piston- Armed with GT85, screwdriver etc I could try resetting myself? (of course remove pads/cover disc)

I've just realised its you Hora! ok, before you start to disassemble the engine block,
...have you tied any balloons to the Ariel? 😆

MrNutt, could be one of the wheel-Hamsters not feeling too good? 😉

When it occurs, if you put your clutch in what is the result?
Blown shocks can bounce a tyre like mad at highway speeds but be apparently fine at low speeds. No pulling would be caused.
Sticky calipers usually do cause some degree of pull, but I did have a sticky rear that pulled so little it was hard to distinguish from road camber, and it didn't happen all the time.
You usually can drive through balancing issues, but its possible to have a pair of wheel imbalanced that harmonise occasionally and this makes an odd stretched out vibration range, but still acts the essentially the same.

My first tests would be
a) Does it go (immediately) when i dip the clutch and coast?
b) Does it go if I brake, lightly or firmly?
c) Does it go immediately if I let right off the throttle?

My first tests would be
a) Does it go (immediately) when i dip the clutch and coast?
b) Does it go if I brake, lightly or firmly?
c) Does it go immediately if I let right off the throttle? (no)

I'll test using this criteria and comeback later on this aft.

Well with C down you rule out misfires or engine fuel/sparky problems. Leaves you with mechanical issues only.

If it continues when you dip the clutch you know its 99% likely to be powertrain or suspension, not engine mechanical. Vibrations can be very very hard to narrow down at times, often helps to have a mate in the car to hunt while you concentrate on remaining on the road!

Does your car have a dual mass flywheel? I know these can be prone to transmitting some very weird vibrations if faulty.

I'd also recommend checking for a sticking caliper.

Just take the damn tractor to a garage.

dual mass flywheel- Will check if it does..

Tractor? I love it. Tonka, it smells like a slurry pit inside, the footwells are full of wrappers etc and the rear seats are covered in dog-footprints.

I can't be bothered to look - is it a forester?

If its a 4wd, its probably a foobar'ed transfer box - when they changed the clutch it exposed weaknesses in other areas of the transmission. That'll be nice and cheap to fix...

flange transfer box works fine though. I tried it yesterday.

Second the sticking caliper - I wasn't a subaru or 4wd but I had that problem on one of my rear wheels and it gave pretty much the symptoms you've described. It didn't shake through the steering specifically though, more that the whole car shook.

Is it not permenant 4wd?

driveshaft?

Lootenant- the whole car shakes (confirmed by the passenger).

If it is a sticking caliper can you resolve yourself? (DIY)

flange- sod off. Your scaring me! 😥

It is permanent 4wd however I switched between the two and it engaged fine/as normal on both.

Have you had the balancing re-checked? Had a scoot through and couldn't see if they're new tyres? A weight coul've come off or if you done more than a 1000miles on the tyres the balancing is more than likely going to start going out. You hit any pot holes recently? Got to kwik fit or somewhere like that and get your tracking checked on all 4 wheels. My money's on one of these. If your brake is sticking you'll be burning through fuel too. Onn a stright section of road if you put your foot down does the car veer?

Fuel consumption has risen actually. From 360miles a tank to 280...

Replacing a caliper isn't difficult if you've got the right tools. It's exactly the same as changing one on a bike but bigger, more expensive and dirtier.

If your fuel consumption has risen that could be another symptom of a sticking brake. Does one wheel get hotter than the others? (although admittedly that's a very sticky brake)

Hora - if its perm 4wd then you don't have the option to switch between the two

What model/year of car is it? Has it had any modifications? Who did the clutch work and is the work covered by a warrenty?

Just jack it up and rotate the wheels. If it is the caliper you want to get on that before the alloy welds itself to the hub. Had this on mates beemer and took ages with smacking it with plastic mallet before it finally gave way. Changing a caliper is easy enough if you have the tools as Lootenant said. It's rebleeding thats more difficult

It is permanent 4wd and its changeable between rev (holds first out on the high setting)- as that worked fine yesterday I assumed it would be fine. surely it would be fubar that as well (or at least give an indication)?

clutch is covered by a 12month warranty.

Will report back later- off back to tyre place first to have all balancing rechecked and check calipers etc..

Unless I'm wrong transfer boxes are working all the time - its nowt to do with whether you choose high or low range or whether you 'rev it' (WTF? are you refering to the button that gives you low range?). The transfer box sends power from the engine to both the front and rear axles in your car.

I manged to **** the one on our Surf by drifting it round round-a-bouts and doing burn outs and other such chavvie activites. If it gets a regular thrashing (and it sounds like it does as you've had to put a new clutch in it) then its probably knackered. As Subaru box's are an intergrated part of the transmission, it'll be expensive.

Oh, and don't EVER switch between modes while driving along....ever
Best bet is to take it back to where you had the clutch done, rather than asking on an MTB forum

Mornin' I took it to my normal tyre place (INDIE not shaggers) and had the wheels re-rebalanced again. One rear was out by a way, the others still fine. Plus the disc on the nearestside front is heavily scored round the radius so something hefty was lodged in there. Can scored-discs get through an MOT?

Ok. Its returned. With a vengenance. Noticed a low vibration now at lower speeds and again as soon as I head 60ish on the motorway it starts:

a) Does it go (immediately) when i dip the clutch and coast?
- As soon as I dipped the clutch in it went/smooth as a babies bot. Even though I scrubbed no speed off at all. Did this a fair few times- immediate smoothness.
b) Does it go if I brake, lightly or firmly?
- No
c) Does it go immediately if I let right off the throttle? (no)
Revised- if I lift off the throttle it lessens considerably but returns asap as soon as I apply any throttle

Taking it the to the Subaru indie today- if its up on a rmap would it be quick to diagnose???

Try & work out if its RPM related, try same speed different gear & see what happens. Have you tried to go through the RPM stationary to see if its a mount?

The mounts are 'known' (dodgy/soggy) on the Foresters. I am leaning towards a propshaft though

Crikey, what a set of symptoms, the fact that dipping the clutch makes it go away rules out wheel/hub balance issues and pretty much rules out suspension problems to start with. You're down to driveline components. Its not rev dependent, as that's been ruled out by it not occuring in 1st, 2nd and 3rd to redline.
So that leaves something wheel-speed related that vanishes when torque is not transferred to/from the engine....leaving drive/propshafts, diffs and their mountings. Oh and the bearings on the output stage of the gearbox and the transfer box? Can anyone think of anything I've missed? Bearings failing on the transmission [i]may[/i] be identifiable by lubricant leaks around the shaft seals. 4WD transmissions are a bitch to diagnose, especially as the vibrations can resonate from one end to the other and sound like they're coming from the back when they arent etc.

Two months ago the clutch was changed. Although at the time the flywheel was checked and found to be ok- it could be a worn flywheel????

I was under the car last night with a headtorch and noticed a darker (recent) patch on a cross member under the engine- either side of the cross member was normal/dry. I can visualise the part it came from but cant explain! Will take a piccie

If it were the clutch I'd expect it to occur with revs, whether engaged or disengaged. You could remove the "input" stage (inc clutch) of the gearbox from the equation by putting the box into neutral when it happens; this detatches all box, clutch and engine components apart from the output shaft and transfer box from the rotation. If it were a worn fly (as in surface wear) I'd expect vibrations to occur when slipping the clutch but not in normal use unless you also notice a slipping clutch in normal use lol.

There really isnt anything else that can go wrong with the fly unless its a dual-mass one, but that would be rev related, not wheel-speed related as you have.

Sounds like a problem I had with my Range Rover a while ago - turned out to be a broken coil spring on the front suspension, only became apparent when the front end started to lift a bit at speed, also depended on the load in the car.
At rest , almost impossible to spot, only when lifted bodily and the front end dropped down was it visible.
Might be worth a look ?
D.

sounds like centre propshaft bearing to me,I did a renault kangoo a while back with simelar noises/symptoms.

also check engine mount/gearbox mountings.

davey99 - a spring would continue to cause problems when the clutch was pressed? I'm more inclined to agree with fullbouncebill having had the same problem on my celica, though I'm not jumping to conclusions yet.

Hora,You havent isolated the possible wheel bearing noise yet,I would sedscribe this as a Dron-ing noise (rather than vibration)

If you rock the steering left to right on a flat road the noise should come and go,It will be noisier on the faulty wheel bearing side,Its harder to diagnose front to back but would be confirmed by free play if the wheel is rocked top to bottom (jacked up)

I would have thought the Kwik fit fitter Should 😕 have found this when the wheels were balanced but I am lening more towards a drive shaft/centre bearing by what you have said.

Its just a case of checking the bearing by rocking up and down with your hand,there should be no up or down movment.

good luck and keep us informed. 😀

Propshaft would be the next thing I checked, followed by rear diff mounts.

I believe the Foresters share a lot with the Impreza, so it may be worth asking on scoobynet.com, and for really clever people try bbs.22b.com.

Subaru wheel bearings are notoriously week. Had one fail on my Impreza at 25k miles that was silent except when leaned on very hard at over 100mph.

Rear wheel bearings tend to rumble (but quietly) on the subarus, fronts tend to be quiet but can give you a lot of pad knock off.

Cheers guys. Will report back later. I took the car to the subaru garage yesterday and he RAGGED it up a 50mph dual carriage way and back with no violent-shakes. Back on the motorway today and hey-presto!
Garage thinks its the fly wheel (when they changed the clutch) however I want to investigate ALL first before removing gearboxes etc..

The propshaft should have no movement (up and down) etc at all? When I wiggle it?

Will of course keep you updated.

"The propshaft should have no movement (up and down) etc at all? When I wiggle it?"

No.

"I was under the car last night with a headtorch and noticed a darker (recent) patch on a cross member under the engine- either side of the cross member was normal/dry"

😉

You could be onto something there,If the Crankshaft oil seal has gone(oil leak/flywheel clutch contamination?) its possible the first motion shaft/bearing has freeplay in it causing vibration through the gearbox/engine mountings.

If one of the mountings is cracked this will amplify the vibration at the given speed.

Usually the flywheels are dished to avoid gearbox oil contamination,although i have seen problems (juddering) caused by mechanics contaminating the clutch with anti seize used to lubricate the splines! 😳

I had a lot of noisy vibration at certain points in the rev range - gearbox oil was very low, topped it up and it almost completely went. Something's worn in there now though due to having been run with low oil.

Engine mounts - to test this, have someone rev the engine and let the clutch out whilst the handbrake (or if you can manage it, footbrake) is on to stop the car moving. You should see the engine mounts wobble about if they are gone (at least, that worked on my car).

If your fuel consumption has risen that could be another symptom of a sticking brake. Does one wheel get hotter than the others? (although admittedly that's a very sticky brake)

I had a brake that was only slightly binding - you could barely tell whilst driving/coasting to a stop etc, and there was no pulling. The wheel was still noticably very much hotter than the others though when you got out and checked. Didn't even have to touch it, you could feel the heat radiating.

Update. The Indie garage is quite good (no main dealer H&S stuff)- as soon as it was up on the ramp I was under there. Noticed straight away there there was alot of grease flung around (a great deal) under and above the inner CV joint.

Removed (engine end seperated itself- housing from the bearing inside). The cv joint at the other end felt like a bag of broken stones when rotated etc.

I'm off to a Dismantlers today to pick up another (saves £300) and was thinking....pick up the other front driveshaft 'just incase'?

There was grease on the back of the brake caliper on the other side (nearside) but the driveshaft isnt split/loose etc. Could it be that this side was replaced in the past and the spannermonkey didnt bother to clean up the surrounding grease afterwards?

Ps. Car had one owner before me.

Sorted 😀

I sourced a front driveshaft from a Subaru Dismantlers in Hebden Bridge and it. The original cv joint was obviously broken when you rotated etc.

£100 labour and it drives smooth, fast and the steering (of course) feels alot tighter now on turn in etc.

Thank you very much for your time and help guys. Very much appreciated. Thanks to your time I saved myself an additional cost of circa £500+ as the garage thought the problem was internal/flywheel related. If I had trusted their experience I would have had this expense then eventually the real problem sorted later on.

Thank you.

Excellent news!

Your round, then?