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I bet you had been scooting on the trolley earlier
I resemble that accusation.
In truth, I stopped doing that after an... incident. I used to do it regularly on the full-sized trolleys. Did it once on one of those half-depth ones; transpires they have a different centre of gravity, who knew?
Car park of Cardiff Tesco Extra maybe twelve years ago, I ran across the car park and jumped up locking my arms out on the handle. The trolley did what I suppose the cool kids call a "manual" these days but I've always known as a wheelie, the front end went skywards like a pissed-off bronco and it deposited me horizontally on the floor, splat. I was picking gravel out of various bits of me for days. Never done it since.
To address solos confusing myriad of posts regards manipulation/price fixing or whatever you want to call it.
The cost of the bits to fit boggo turbo on a mid spec engine will be around 15% of the cost of the base engine. You want to reliably increase the power by say, 20% you are into a new turbo, probably running higher speeds/boost pressures, so it'll need to be better balanced and built with tighter clearance, if you can get away with the same turbo, you've struck lucky. But you might need some cooling added (more cost) upgraded injectors (cost) slightly bigger intercooler (no cost but a pain to fit) lots of changed plumbing for greater air intake and exhaust and different harmonics (more part numbers, possibly lower volume, more cost). That 15% becomes 20-25% at least 25% if you need a new, bigger turbo. Probably more.
You want to add 40% to the original engine, you're into fancy pants injectors (probably 5x the cost of the original ones) water to air intercooler, oil cooler for the engine, upgraded fuel pump then a fancy variable geometry turbo with proper cooling, you'll also need a new radiator and fan pack, possibly a transmission cooler all the intake and exhaust will need rejigging, aftertreatment stuff will need to be changed. You'll be looking at just the turbo costing 20-25% of the cost of the engine. (Decent variable geo turbo, even at OEM purchase volumes/costs is the most expensive single part of the engine.)
Get into what VW and others are doing with their high power multi stage charging (biturbo and turbo/super and so on) and the charge system will be well over 50% of the engine cost. And the engine now costs twice what it did when it was producing half the power.
And regarding oil temps, lots of cars (especially high performance derivatives) have oil temp measurement, and will inhibit power if the oil is too hot or cold. According to jimjam, you can switch stuff like this off. 🙄 😉
Audi RS models definatly do not allow high revs with a cold engine.
I was told by a race mechanic to allow 1 min per 1000 rpm to give the oil and moving parts time to heat through properly. So 5 mins before hitting 6000 rpm.
Most turbo intsalls have the feed from the bottom , so the shaft wont be running dry if the engine suddenly stops. Its more that the CHRA can be glowing hot and the oil in the body carbonises and this restricts or stops the oil flow leading to a dead turbo.
[i]Cougar - Moderator
Who knew?[/i]
With a mechanical Engineering backround, I've always viewed those trolleys as the devil's work and treated them with a degree of caution.
However, such an experience would hopefully be good prep for the day you get a wheel chair.
While hopefully that day never actually comes to you. I was once promoted to wheel chair pilot, for an afternoon, and there are four middled aged Spanish ladies who probably laugh their sizeable asses off about it, even today!
🙂
Apologies if my posts have confused, you.
Just a remap, no hardware, elicits performance from my car, matching a more expensive model. As I've already outlined. If the business case supports it, a higher unit cost can and is mitigated by volumes, if you have those volumes. The OEM producing my engine knows full well it can reliably and durably produce a higher output, but decides to "fettle" outputs for commercial reasons.
Personally I've no issue with it.
you'll have to go and explain to them how they can do that then. Most of the aftermarket maps take all sorts of risks with reliability and durability of the engine. It's apparently extremely easy to tell exactly what has been switched off once you've got the ECU in front of you. Even if the original map has been put back in.The OEM producing my engine knows full well it can reliably and durably produce a higher output, but decides to "fettle" outputs for commercial reasons.
And FWIW there are very very few completely identical engines producing different power outputs in the same platform. Mostly at the very very bottom of the market to get round company car tax breaks by weight/emissions.
SoloJust a remap, no hardware, elicits performance from my car, matching a more expensive model
This is true of virtually every car with a turbo. In fact a lot of them require much less sophistication than that to get more power.
The OEM producing my engine knows full well it can reliably and durably produce a higher output, but decides to "fettle" outputs for commercial reasons.
So they tune they appropriately so they don't explode. Right. Got it.
According to jimjam, you can switch stuff like this off.
You were speaking in giant sweeping generalities. I was referring to driver modes like /comfort/sport/race etc. I'm still waiting on your examples 😉
Cars are definitely getting faster and more powerful. As OP says many examples where of "normal" cars with 250+ bhp.
Interesting thread. To answer the OPs question - it probably is getting a bit silly.. However, being a petrol head I can't say I'm against it. It has meant I've been able to get a car (M135i) with mental performance and 5 door hatch practically at a relatively reasonable price point (I can't afford a fun car AND a normal car so this is a perfect compromise). Only last week I managed 39.5 mpg on a 240 mile round trip. Staggering really to think it's better on the juice than my old '04 20v 2.0i Passat that had 130bhp..
Do you really need all the power? Absolutely not. However, one of the main things I enjoy is that due to the incredible amount of performance available the car is so unstressed on the motorway at 70mph (just below 2000rpm in 8th) it's incredibly relaxing and enjoyable to drive. No buzzing, harsh vibrations, etc etc. Our other car is a Mini Cooper and I think that has about 120bhp - although it is quite powerful for a little car it can be a right pain in the arse on long motorway journeys. Don't get me wrong I enjoy many other things about the little Beemer as well but it's not all about red lining it sideways everywhere. Mind you what does piss me right off is the lack of a temp gauge.. It has the functionality you just have to type in a wee code using the odo reset button every time you get in if you want to display it!
Interesting point on the long service intervals. The 135 has just ticked over 10k after a year and isn't due its first service for the same again.. Maybe a call to the local indie for an interim oil service is due.
Interestingly enough (for a loser like me anyway) the cars I generally see getting howked al owa, tailgating people, cutting people up are in 90% of cases 4 banger 2 litre oil burners in the rep brigade (320d, A4 2.0tdi etc etc). Most of the other 10% are mentalists in vans, and that's what worries me the most... A heavy van with generally shite dynamic ability getting hoofed along at 90mph.. Dodgy. As. ****.
Not sure if this has been covered.....
Speed limits on thr motorway could be like on the autobahn as I genuinely believe our motorways are to a better standard.
but it is, IMO, total Stierscheiße.... What sections of UK motorway are you using?
In the last week I've driven from Munich, across Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium and France, and then from Dover up to Bamburgh castle...
In no way whatsoever are UK roads in a better state than in any of the countries that I drove through (although bits of Belgium motorways and the driving are on a par with the UK).
UK roads are massively overcrowded. The A1(M) is a joke... Cannot believe that you have T-junctions or crossroads,no hard shoulder, crappy sliproads and at times footpaths on one of Britain's most heavily used roads....!
The roads around Leeds were packed when I drove through on Friday. Add to that lots of cars struggling up the hills with lorries bearing down on them.
That said, I find it kind of ironic when you see Porsches, big M-BMWs and those Audis with the flip up spoiler cruising along at 70ish on UK roads. Totally make sense in Germany where you can derestrict the engines and get from Berlin to Munich in 3,5 hours....seems a bit daft in the M62.
Plus big motors with loads of power are not going to be as much fun going over the moors or through the forest as an MX5, Caterham or hot hatch.
The 135 has just ticked over 10k after a year and isn't due its first service for the same again.. Maybe a call to the local indie for an interim oil service is due.
Yep good idea, no need to even tell BMW 🙂
[quote="jimjam"]You were speaking in giant sweeping generalities. I was referring to driver modes like /comfort/sport/race etc. I'm still waiting on your examples 😉WTF? Why would i give you examples when we are talking about two entirely different groups of things?
I'm lost a bit. VW not that long back did a 2.0 diesel with at least two power outputs 140bhp and 170bhp. I always thought it was the same engine and same turbo, just with the boost pressure turned up a bit?
At the start of the year we bought a Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost 100bhp. I was gutted when I found out it was a different turbo to the more powerful 125bhp model, I had thought about getting a remap done, but should have researched it first. However as I understand it the 125bhp engine is the same as the 140bhp engine
Funkydunk has the pipe recall been done?
What's wrong with the power? I had a hire one- loved it. 🙂
WTF? Why would i give you examples when we are talking about two entirely different groups of things?
I meant examples of two cars from the same model range and one that has +150bhp but only a 75bhp gain.
FunkyDuncI'm lost a bit. VW not that long back did a 2.0 diesel with at least two power outputs 140bhp and 170bhp. I always thought it was the same engine and same turbo, just with the boost pressure turned up a bit?
Perfect example. Yes, both cars have the same 2.0 diesel engine but they do not have the same injectors, intercooler, turbo (and associated plumbing). If you drill down into the costs of upgrading all the parts to the high spec (more powerful car) and remapping it you are into thousands.
In no way whatsoever are UK roads in a better state than in any of the countries that I drove through
Some of the autobahns I used to drive on towards Austria and the Mountains were not very good, two lanes and still unrestricted.
The bit between Stuttgart and Munich was ok though the surface wasn't great iirc.
The UK network also varies in quality of course.
I'm lost a bit. VW not that long back did a 2.0 diesel with at least two power outputs 140bhp and 170bhp. I always thought it was the same engine and same turbo, just with the boost pressure turned up a bit?
I can confirm they are different engines. Very different in fact, different fuel pumps, turbos and head
[quote="jimjam"]I meant examples of two cars from the same model range and one that has +150bhp but only a 75bhp gain.You not read so good?
Go back and see what i actually wrote, then make an attempt to understand how an engine, gearbox and its related software actually works.
Funkydunk has the pipe recall been done?
Whats that then? We got the car in January, was about 8 months old at that point, and was from Jersey.
It has been serviced at Ford Dealer since and they didn't mention anything.
We have the 1.0 Eco 100bhp engine...
ghostlymachineYou not read so good?
Why are you getting personal? Are you upset?
Go back and see what i actually wrote, then make an attempt to understand how an engine, gearbox and its related software actually works.
I read it, you said
most of these modern BHP figures are all but unachieveable
So you've paid for an extra 150 bhp and even when you are asking for it, you'll probably only see half of it
Show me an example that proves this. Because your next sentence pretty much contradicted everything you've been saying
pretty much the only time the engine will see the headline figure is on a test bed or dyno. Or on a dead straight german motorway
...or in other words these completely preposterous, un achievable peak figures will only ever be seen on a straight bit of road.
[quote="jimjam"]Why are you getting personal? Are you upset?not at all. You just seem to be being either deliberately obtuse. Or thick.
What I actually said was that to achieve the headline figure you need to satisfy a long list of parameters. The higher the specific power output of the engine, the more difficult they tend to be to meet and the more of them there will be. To the point that most high performance engines/powertrains/cars will cap the torque in almost all driving conditions. Except, for instance, a long straight road. With every parameter sitting within its nice tight range, the right gear and so on. If anything isn't right, torque will be reduced so you don't damage the engine. Or slide into a dry stone wall.
[quote=nickewen ]Do you really need all the power? Absolutely not. However, one of the main things I enjoy is that due to the incredible amount of performance available the car is so unstressed on the motorway at 70mph (just below 2000rpm in 8th) it's incredibly relaxing and enjoyable to drive.
Sounds like you need a diesel.
I was just thinking my 90bhp Focus could do that in top 😆
But that's a wee bit unfair, there's more to it than just being able to do it- the feeling of effortlessness is what makes the difference between cruising and wafting. (this is why I went for the 155 version of my car not the 130... I'm not [i]that[/i] bothered about the top end but it has better drivability. They both do the exact same job, it's just that the bigger engine does it a little better, all the time)
Definitely don't need a diesel! Never owned one, hopefully never will! To quote someone off of here "Diesel engines belong in agricultural machinery and trucks, they have no place under the bonnet of a car".
As nice as it is having power reserves it is also good fun to hear that lovely straight 6 as you wring it out to the redline!
Aye "driveability" that's the word I should have used in my post yesterday! Cheers Northwind. Out of interest was your focus a diesel or petrol? Our Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol sits between 3000-3500 rpm at 70 IIRC in 6th gear.
What makes a car 'unstressed' on the motorway is plenty of torque at lower revs. Which diesel does very well, without all the added waste.
If that's what you want, diesel is ideal. You don't get the power and fury of a screaming Vwhatever but that's a different requirement.
Service intervals. When I bought my Porsche I was stagered to find it had 24 month service intervals. Delaer said bring it in for an oil change after 6-12 months but after that unless you are doing a lot of track days etc every 24 months is fine.
When I bought my Porsche I was stagered to find it had 24 month service intervals. Delaer said bring it in for an oil change after 6-12 months but after that unless you are doing a lot of track days etc every 24 months is fine.
The dealer is drumming up some future business.
Those are utterly daft intervals.
[quote=jambalaya ]Service intervals. When I bought my Porsche I was stagered to find it had 24 month service intervals. Delaer said bring it in for an oil change after 6-12 months but after that unless you are doing a lot of track days etc every 24 months is fine.
Eh? You're giving that as an advantage of high power cars (or are you just willy waving)?
I have had my car for 9 years, faultless aside from one £300 component which got clogged up as car was not driven for 6 months when I was in Singapore. I spend more on serving my 2 mtb's
@aracer - not willy waving but appreciate some may see it that way but it wasn't meant to be, my point was a high performance car need not be serviced every 5 months. I can also say on the road there are plenty of cars these days with similar or even better 20-80mph performance. A relative has a 135M like prior poster and that car is at least as fast
Edit: I recall there where 4 or 5 stw-ers who have had Cayman's you can buy a car like mine now for £12-18k
nickewen - MemberAye "driveability" that's the word I should have used in my post yesterday! Cheers Northwind. Out of interest was your focus a diesel or petrol?
It was the shittest diesel 😆 A 1.8 tddi. No power or revs so overtaking was a bit like NASA planning orbit changes, but it was actually pretty pleasant to drive, very tractable- way nicer than an equivalent petrol I reckon. My folks have a 1.6 petrol focus, it makes more power but in a motorbike rev band so on the motorway it's like being inside a wasp.
[quote=jambalaya ]I spend more on serving my 2 mtb's
Now you are willy waving 😀
Your point is actually that high performance cars don't need more servicing? Though I'd be surprised if it isn't still more expensive than a "cheaper" brand just because of the dealer pricing. Not that servicing costs seems like the biggest issue here (it's certainly not the biggest expense of owning an expensive car).
Though I'd be surprised if it isn't still more expensive than a "cheaper" brand just because of the dealer pricing.
Only garage within walking distance of my house is a Jaguar dealer. I had a good laugh at the service prices when I dropped my battered old Prius round for an MOT 😆
It was the shittest diesel A 1.8 tddi. No power or revs
On the contrary, I had a this engine in my first car, a Mk V Escort, which went comparatively like stink provided you kept it in the range of the turbo. That said, it sort of didn't weigh anything due to an absence of any of that tiresome safety stuff...
Why do cars need all that horsepower?
A penis extension is cheaper, pulls more chicks, and you're left with more money to flash about.
Anyway, there's a speed limit on every road. If you obey it, I doubt your point to point times in your triple turbo V12 are significantly better than Mr Bimblealong's Morris Minor in 1970.
The only vehicles that should be allowed to exceed it are motorbikes. That's what you should get if you want to go fast. God invented them to cull idiots.
(TIC)
Why do cars need all that horsepower?
Why do bikes need all that travel?
Why do cars need all that horsepower?
Why do house's need so many bathrooms/toilets?
Back in the day, most houses had one. Now 3 or 4 are common in family houses.
Just one example of how everything is bigger, better, faster, more comfortable etc nowadays.
Do you really need 300hp when 100hp will do? No, but a modern powerful car can be a very pleasant way to travel.
It's all part of the capitalist, consumerist, growth driven World we live in.
For better or worse.
Why do bikes need all that travel?
Is it in order to pull chicks?
epicyclo - MemberA penis extension is cheaper, pulls more chicks
Kind of implies it's nothing to do with penises and getting laid then doesn't it?
This is all going well.
Flamin' Nora, this thread reminds me of Ryan's M5, I thought Singletrack/the internet had evolved into something better.
Amusing thread, the way I see it:-
Manufacturers want to sell cars, cars have plenty of ways to quantify them. Want the most economical car ? Sure we can do that for you sir. Our Eurobox Bluei does 15mpg more than our competitor. Want the fastest? Our xr6 fanny magnet has 20 more horsepower than our competitor and so on.
I think it's awesome that people buy the stupidly powerful version of a car, makes the roads much more interesting; especially if they produce a noise that isn't diesel dreariness.
Humans love speed, I used to love a weekend at the Nurberg ring but decided with the shaky insurance and the huge cost id get my speed kicks from push bikes again instead.
As for speed limiters I couldn't think of anything more dangerous than a motorway full of bored inattentive drivers all doing bang on 70mph.
A motorway full of drivers going the same speed is joy. Doesn't necessarily mean being inattentive.
Doesn't necessarily mean being inattentive.
If afraid it generally does - can't argue with basic human nature I'm afraid. When do you pay more attention on the bike, when you're ambling along chatting to your mate, or when you're zipping along, approaching a drop off?