[Closed] Car accident, Legally and morally.

Yes - make the children walk to school

HTH

Thanks sam.

Was she legitimately parked? Or, like most school run mums round here just stopped at the side of the road on double yellows, half on the pavement, but with her hazards on, making everything ok!

If she's legitimately parked then she's not at fault I'd say.

Its fine to park there. The other woman was a mum who parked further up the road.

Morally, this woman could have waited 20 seconds instead of pushing past so she made the decision that caused the damage.

Legally? I doubt anyone would be interested, it's not going to be worth claiming so tell her to **** off.

Yeah, not your fault, you can argue it your way. Don't pay up.

If your car is stationary then i would assume its the other drivers fault, they choice to go through the gap, well thats the common sense thought, im sure it won't work out that way.

Was the door she hit open or closed?
If open, was it still or did your wife or kid swing it out into the path of the oncoming car?

Was wifey double parked or somesuch, in which case other driver needs to prove who parked there first.

Sounds to me like other driver just reacted badly to her own driving error, and wouldn't back down. Silly cow.

Other driver at fault IMHO. Should have/could have waited.

Car door was open i believe, the child was lifted in fully shes too young to get in herself at under 2yrs. From what i have heard the woman pushed past too close too quick and misjudged it. If she had accepted this then there would have been no more to say.

other driver misjudged it.

school run mum, so to be expected really. Give her a kick and put some deep heat in her gusset.

The impatient bint that drove her car through a gap that wasn't as wide as the car is at fault, I'd have said.

Morally, all parents should park a 5 minute walk from their child's school, if they [i]really[/i] do need to drive.

If the door was already open and she hit a stationary object then the other driver is at fault no matter how your wife was parked.

Just to clarify. Your wife has the door already open, then someone else drives pastn clouts their wing mirror on the open door and they think its your fault?
Their error, tell 'em to sod off!
Regardless of whether your wife should have been where she was or not, she did nothing to change the situation, the other woman did by driving past. If she hit her wingmirror on a signpost, would she bill the council because it was there? No of course not. She's just trying to blame someone for her **** up.
ourkidsam, so very helpful. Have you thought of a career in the CAB?

Any witnesses? Otherwise the other party will likely say your wife opened the door into her path

If she can't avoid a stationary car I don't hold out much hope for any little children scampering about

[i]Its fine to park there. The other woman was a mum who parked further up the road. [/i]

So it was a grudge crash then? 🙂

school run mum, so to be expected really. Give her a kick and put some deep heat in her gusset.

lovely

She does need to drive [well our choices have made this the case!] as she then goes on too work 10 miles away after dropping Second child at my mums. Too balance this i cycle to and from work daily, every day, and pick no 1 son up twice a week and we walk the mile home both days come rain or shine. 😀
Thanks all. I await a phone call tonight.

Other womans husband is at fault for convincing her that his small penis is actually 7" long - she'll always lack spatial awareness until he tells the truth!

What are the odds that the other driver will say the car door swung open into her car as she passed?

As above, seek out some witness if possible, just in case.

SO if she did pursue this, and we dont pay. Would she then have to go through the insurance and pay the excess? Then the insurance would try and claim against us?
THere was a witness but no name and not sure if he was from the school or a passer by.
So we just refuse to pay and leave it in their court?

Even if the car door did 'swing open' for whatever reason and it caught the other car, I'd argue that the driver passing was driving dangerously close to a lone mother on foot with a two year old in her care outside a school. That's Driving Without Due Care at the very least.

(IMHO, etc)

It doesn't really matter what she says - if your wife says she's lying then it's one person's word against another's, and given likelihood of what actually happened (it seems pretty unlikely to me to time the opening of a door so as to take out a wing mirror of a passing car) there's no way she'd win any claim. Tell her to stop being so silly - or possibly something slightly less polite.

So we just refuse to pay and leave it in their court?
Exactly..
Especially based on the bullying nature of the other woman.
Although would not expect it to go to court, as the other woman will just end up paying for her own mirror.

SO if she did pursue this, and we dont pay. Would she then have to go through the insurance and pay the excess? Then the insurance would try and claim against us?

Exactly that. They'd have to claim through their insurance, who would seek recompense through your insurance, who would (all things being equal) tell them to get knotted.

Given that the most I've ever paid for a wing mirror is 100 quid, and given that a lot policies carry an excess around that sort of figure, I'd like to bet that she won't persue it if you tell her to do one. She's just hoping you'll go "oh I'm terribly sorry" and give her some money.

Witnesses?

... which of course then makes me wonder,

Was the damage definitely caused at that point? Was there a broken mirror in the street, or could it be old damage and she's chancing it?

I'd argue that the driver passing was driving dangerously close to a lone mother on foot with a two year old in her care outside a school. That's Driving Without Due Care at the very least.

Why offer advice/opinion then go all IMHO? Has OP even stated where wife and kid were? Your posts on traffic law are nonsense!

My view: depends on whether door open to passing driver or not - i.e. whether she had a chance to avoid it - seems she did, so it's like her driving into a stationary object in full view. Her fault. Can't see how she'd convince her insurers it's anything else either unless she's lying.

Given that the most I've ever paid for a wing mirror is 100 quid

depends on the car - my mates heated , indicatored ,colour coded, folding (only one way) mercedes c200 mirror cost him 500 odd quid after he reversed it into a gate post in rage . steam coming from ears

[i]Seriously anyone know the law? I would have thought if a car is stationary it would not be that cars fault.
Advice please?[/i]

My thoughts are that that isn't really the case. I mean if you were say cycling along, and a car driver opened a door into your path, I suspect that you would consider them at fault. Not that I'm suggesting that your wife did something similar, just that the fact the car isn't moving, doesn't automatically absolve someone of fault.

IanMunro is Zaskar and I claim my £5.

Aren't you obliged to drive a certain distance away from parked cars, or is that just widely recommended?

Cops will "do" a driver who opens a door and takes out a cyclist etc. Seems to me if the door has been open for some time then there's a duty on passing drivers to avoid it (just like anything in the road).

But shouldnt you be driving with enough space to clear any potentially opening doors especially when passing rows of parked cars i am sure this will be in the highway code as good advice? Another point regardless of how open the door actually was, there was a mother with a young child at a car door in the road. I would slow down for sure.
Anyway...
Thanks again

Why offer advice/opinion then go all IMHO?

You're asking why I'm providing an opinion, and then marking it as an opinion? You've thought about this, haven't you.

Has OP even stated where wife and kid were?

Your posts on traffic law are nonsense!

My view: depends on whether door open to passing driver or not

there was a mother with a young child at a car door in the road. I would slow down for sure.

... this is where I'm coming from. If it happened as described, the door is irrelevant.

From the insurance point of view it will go 2 ways, ethier they will accept yours or hers version of events, if both conflict then you get stuck in the situation i was a few years ago.

I hit another vehicle, i know my fault i hit it, but he did an illegal turn, didn't stop to see if anyone was coming just span round and we went head on at 30mph, about £1k worth of damamge to my car and a fair chunk to his company van, i got witnesses and also cctv footage of the event, he claimed i was in the wrong, i claimed he was. Neither of us won, my insurance paid for my repair his insurance paid for his, i had an accident logged on my insurance as disputed, even though not my fault, only just cleared last year.

THere was a witness but no name and not sure if he was from the school or a passer by.

Identify the witness.

trail_rat - Member

[b]Given that the most I've ever paid for a wing mirror is 100 quid
[/b]
depends on the car - my mates heated , indicatored ,colour coded, folding (only one way) mercedes c200 mirror cost him 500 odd quid after he reversed it into a gate post in rage . steam coming from ears

It wasn't Smee was it by any chance? He does tend to get a little agitated...

You're asking why I'm providing an opinion, and then marking it as an opinion? You've thought about this, haven't you.

Fair comment - I'm a lawyer, though that might count for something.

I missed that stuff in the OP - I'd agree if mum was putting kid in car as driver passed then it's a different slant on things.

I'm just providing ideas

What's the point if you don't have some knowledge/expertese? There's enough clap-trap on the interweb 😀

there was a mother with a young child at a car door in the road. I would slow down for sure.

... this is where I'm coming from. If it happened as described, the door is irrelevant.

You're confusing good behaviour with the law.

I would slow down if there was a mother and baby in the road, In fact I'd stop and let them load up.

However, [u]if[/u] I didn't and I squeezed past and [u]if[/u] the mum or baby swung the door out further and I hit it, I believe the law would say the mum was at fault. Note - I don't think that's what's happened in this case.

Opening a car door while there is traffic approaching is stupid. It's also an offence - 'causing danger to other road users'.

Your wife is in the wrong. If it goes to insurance she will lose. If the door was shut there would have been no accident.

you think smees wife would let him loose in a 30k car !

Fair comment - I'm a lawyer, though that might count for something.

Did you pin your certificate to the wall or frame it?

It's lost under a huge pile of £500 notes 😛

scottchegg... did you actually read the ops post, door was open first while his wife was putting child in back and then the car came after and tried to squeeze through the gap and failed miserably.

its posts like that which really piss me off!!!

my mates heated , indicatored ,colour coded, folding (only one way) mercedes c200 mirror cost him 500 odd quid

You could buy a bike for that 😆

Any witnesses? Otherwise the other party will likely say your wife opened the door into her path

+1. All the transgressor has to say is you suddenly swung the door open.

What is the law on this?

Renton +1

hora - Member

Any witnesses? Otherwise the other party will likely say your wife opened the door into her path

+1. All the transgressor has to say is you suddenly swung the door open.

What is the law on this?

You have said what the answer is but don't know the law?

The law would be it's one side's evidence vs the other's.

Legally, the driver did not give a vulnerable road user/pedestrian with child anywhere near enough room to safley overtake regardless of where the door was. I'd say the driver put your wife in danger and is completley in the wrong.

Morally, there would have been more of a scene if the driver had done that to me.

I'm a lawyer, though that might count for something.

I wasn't aware of that. What sort of lawyer?

What's the point if you don't have some knowledge/expertese? There's enough clap-trap on the interweb

Well, this is very true (-: This is a chat forum though, is it not, not a legal advice forum? I'm chatting. Hiya.

Not road traffic 😉 , professional indemnity.

If she didnt even stop tell her to get ****ed and deny all knowledge

You have said what the answer is but don't know the law?

The law would be it's one side's evidence vs the other's.

I don't know the answer, just trying out good ol' common sense...

Zaskar is the expert, he'll have sued the driver, himself, his kid, then his parents.

were any details exchanged?
you could always report the accident if not. your wife tried to provide insurance details, name and address, but the other driver became abusive...
if no details were exchanged you are obliged to report the accident anyway within 24hrs.

otherwise, when you speak to her, i'd just say that you have a witness, if she wants to pursue it, then here are my insurance details, please give me yours. that's what you pay them money for. fill in the form and forget it, but very likely it will never get that far due to excess, as suggested above.

The onus was on the driver of the other vehicle to make sure the way was clear - Basic Highway Code and how your insurance company will argue it.

Whether you exchanged details or not is irrelevant, as long as you have the other driver's registration number, your insurer will be able to identify their name, insurance company and policy details.

Contact your insurance company, tell them what happened. They will be able to sort any damage to your car and claim any costs back from the other party at no detriment to you.

Driver of moving car is at fault no matter what else happened.

Women drivers eh!

Runs for cover......

Driver of moving car is at fault no matter what else happened.

Unless a kid runs out?

On another thread someone described how he was driving along and ended up with a kid and bike on his bonnet- the parents paid him £250 for the scratches.

Hora he was refering to car versus stationary object.

Driver of moving car is at fault no matter what else happened.

Unless the parked car opens a door while someone is passing

[i]you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door[/i]
[url= http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860 ]http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860[/url]

Very hard to prove who was at fault without an independent witness. I suspect insurers would go knock for knock.

I know, going back to what I said earlier, if it was me and I was a **** I'd say I was slowly driving past and this idiot was stood next to his car then suddenly threw the door open...

.....but hang...that doesn't work. As the OP was opening the passenger door (STOOD) next to the car to open the door so this was a developed hazzard and as such the driver should have noticed OR stopped.

nickjb - I am talking about this specific case using the details provided. Drivers have a duty to not hit stuff AND give enough clearance so as not to cause endangerment.

I thought if there were no witnesses as such it was knock for knock. I've been involved in those before and the police don't get involved so it's word against word and in my case has just been dealt with by insurance. Just tell her to sort it out that way, like someone said earlier the mirror probably cost less than the excess so shell drop it rather than have the hassle. People can be complete idiots about this sort of thing and get abusive even when they know they r in the wrong. Muppets

Ignoring legal/moral, reality for me:

Driver hits stationary object - drivers fault

Other road user hits driver - knock-for-knock unless proven (witnesses) otherwise

So.... has the woman been told you're not paying for the mirror yet?
How did she take it?

Drac "Ianmunro is Zaskar and I claim my £5"

Best chuckle for ages, thanks!

But shouldnt you be driving with enough space to clear any potentially opening doors especially when passing rows of parked cars i am sure this will be in the highway code as good advice?

That would make driving down some roads legally impossible. At the end of the day, if the door was opened INTO the passing car when there was no other obstacle in the road, then it was the door openers fault, but in order to load the baby they would have to be in the road in the first place and squeezing through would put the driver at fault as they should wait.

I agree with all of the others that more than likely the moving driver was at fault.

BUT...

One thing not mentioned by anyone is that your child goes to school with their child.

For the sake of future relations in and out of school, I would tell her to "**** off" in as sensitive a manner as possible, maybe also talk to the head about the incident just to get your word in first if there are any nasty consequences.

Road traffic incident has nothing to do with the school, the head won't want to hear about a minor scrape.
However they will probably advise that you plan and don't load children who need to be lifted in regularly from the road side, after all you can pick which side to park the vehicle as you pull up, even if it means finding a slightly more distant space or turning around, it makes sense.

Legal and financial issues aside (which frankly bore me & as none of us were there inc the op, are all speculative)one hopes all concerned have learnt something about future habits around the school entrance. I have the misfortune to live directly outside a primary school entrance and daily witness some of the most ignorant, selfish, dangerous & self involved behaviour by all those involved. And that's before I get started on those parent's that think it is OK to park directly across our drive so they can cut their walk down to zero yards rather than find a space 50yds down the road and get irritated when you tell them to move on as you need to get out of your own drive! I've had 2 refuse and have a nice chat with another mother before dawdling back to their car so we could get out.

I hope the other mother learnt to have more patience. They probably held someone else up 30 seconds previously getting out of their car. Drive at walking pace until clear of the riot that is the school gate. I hope your wife learnt that whilst it might be more convenient to load the car with sprogs from the road side, it is safer and perfectly possible from the other side, esp if they are pint sized two year olds. Set your car up & load your kids in the right order as if the offside door is welded shut. Next time the impatient car might take either your wife or child out instead.

One thing to consider, you might want to report the incident to the local police station, just to cover your ass.
Not reporting an accident where damage is caused and / or not exchanging details can get you into all sorts of grief, if it goes that way. You dont need to press chartges, just make them aware in case the other party tries it on.
I should know a clash of wing mirrors cost me £200 + 5points 5 years ago for not exchanging details and not reporting the incident. 👿

Passed too close to a parked Police car a while back, wings mirrors clashed, mine smashed, theirs folded back... Stopped down the road, walked back to face the music, the driver was inside a house dealing with a domestic. His mate called the traffic police to sort me out, I thought they'd crucify me for dangerous driving- but they had a quick look around the car I'd hit, decided there was no real damage apart from a scratch that could have been there already, and told me to get lost and be more careful!

She never rang! Sorry guys.

Surely with 2 young children 1 of them is always going to be in the road with the parent when they are both getting out of the car. I dont think there would be enough room for the elder to climb through to the opposite side.
As said no damage to our car. Wife has calmed down and hopefully the other woman has also.

Then the older one travels on the near side and you reach across to put the younger one in their seat on the off side - It's not rocket science & simply no excuse for loading your kids whilst standing in the road.

Sorry, you say you reach across a whole car width with a child in your arms from the opposite side? Good luck with that.
I think i would struggle with that let alone a woman.

Surely with 2 young children 1 of them is always going to be in the road with the parent when they are both getting out of the car. I dont think there would be enough room for the elder to climb through to the opposite side.

Not sure what car you have, which may make a difference, but I can't see why the older one can't sit on the road side but get in at the pavement side and scoot across. I'm 6'1 and regularly used to do this in a small hatchback, I can get changed into a drysuit in a peugeot 205. Why can't a young kid scoot across from the pavement side? There really isnt an excuse, it's just laziness really.