MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
Seems to me that the 'remoaners' are just using it as an excuse to try an water it down 🙄
This has been a total shambles and I blame the Tory party 100% for the mess. The chain of events should have been.
1) Cameron signed Article 50 within days of the result
2) Move straight to WTO rules
3) Emergency budget to stimulate the economy.
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented
Good luck with that 😆
[img] 
[/img]
Pick one of the other threads?
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
Because your an idiot? Seriously what good does it do the country? What does a crashing pound and increasing food prices do? Why does every business group call for a sensible and amicable solution?
That is unless your just trolling?
Seems to me that the 'remoaners' are just using it as an excuse to try an water it down
The result was a vote to leave the EU
The result was not a vote to leave the EU dictated entirely by tories
Dry your eyes
They are both voted for by ****ing idiots.
Because your an idiot? Seriously what good does it do the country? What does a crashing pound and increasing food prices do? Why does every business group call for a sensible and amicable solution?
That is unless your just trolling?
Or Russian.
But we have to go the negotiating table for this "hard Brexit" with the EU now laughing at us, we are fast burning our bridges with Europe and the US, both of these are pretty big markets for export i'm guessing?
As someone stated, May spent £132 million on losing her majority, and we are sending her to negotiate Brexit? She can't gauge what is going on in the UK let alone elsewhere.
Junckers came out of his first meeting with May stating "i'm now 10x more sceptical than i was when i walked in"
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
Are you a dribbling moron? You can't work that out for yourself? Really?
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
Oh, you ARE a moron. Sorry for the offence.
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
Theresa? Is that you?
What a snowflake - complaining when democracy doesn't go his way.
Though to be fair, he got this bit right
[quote=flanagaj ]This has been a total shambles and I blame the Tory party 100% for the mess.
flanagaj - Member
Seems to me that the 'remoaners' are just using it as an excuse to try an water it down
The gullibles just want to stop it by whatever means they can. Very predictable. 😆
I doubt you can gain an inch without fighting hard for it because they are going all out for it as they have nothing to loose.
They are using all sort of tactics even if it means bringing down the country to use it to justify their ways. Then pinning it on the govt as "failure". 😆
Basically they are just setting the next generations like lame to the slaughter for the EU bureaucratic system. They think they can be "in" the system to influence ... 😆
Because [s]your[/s] you're an idiot?
😉
[img] 
[/img]
Where there is harmony, May will bring discord.
Where there is truth, May will bring error.
Where there is faith, May will bring doubt.
And where there is hope, May will bring despair."
With apologies to maggie and St Francis of Assisi
OP - you are going to be OK, the troops have arrived. Well, the Chewy bloke anyway. He'll be talking about maggots in a minute but don't worry it's only a phase; he's got some brilliant arguments up his sleeve for you.
That's Zombie Mayggots if you please.
Have you not worn out that emoji yet chewkw.
Hard Brexit being a possibility has already damaged the economy and many industries. I didn't vote for the Tories and don't want a hard Brexit, the two things are connected.
convert - Member
OP - you are going to be OK, the troops have arrived. Well, the Chewy bloke anyway. He'll be talking about maggots in a minute but don't worry it's only a phase; he's got some brilliant arguments up his sleeve for you.
I am only one. How many of you?
You are already concerned?
Silly goose. 😆
zippykona - Member
That's Zombie Mayggots if you please.
As you know ZM are everywhere ... 😆
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
Ask Theresa May, she started it.
Once again, the chewkw is completely ignorant of how a representative democracy works, or indeed how the internal factions of the Conservative party work. It seems incapable of contributing anything to the discussion on the forum without resorting to trolling.
You are already concerned?
Only that care in the community doesn't seem to be working quite like it was intended.
PJM1974 - Member
Once again, the chewkw is completely ignorant of how a representative democracy works, or indeed how the internal factions of the Conservative party work. It seems incapable of contributing anything to the discussion on the forum without resorting to trolling.
Who is in govt? Who won the referendum? 😆
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
Why? Do you have your own money tree or a couple of billion in the bank?
Taking back control referred to the Etonian/PPE elite ensuring us wage slaves are kept in our places. There was nothing being offered to the proletariat.
You blaming me? 😯convert - Member
You are already concerned?
Only that care in the community doesn't seem to be working quite like it was intended.
Who is in govt?
Nobody yet. Wait for the Queens speech vote, perhaps we need better education at the airports.
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
The Labour party don't want to have a bonfire of workers rights and protections, but the Conservatives do.
The Labour party want to retain access to the single market; the Conservatives couldn't care less about it.
The Scottish Conservatives also seem to be lukewarm about the idea of tossing the economy in the bin for the sake of your badly thought-out Brexit "plan".
Oh, and TM said she needed a strong mandate to negotiate a good deal. So a good deal is no longer an option, leaving only either a bad deal, or "no deal", which is just a bad deal by a different name. I guess there might be a few people left who still believe Theresa's vacuous slogans; I assume you're smart enough to not be one of them.
Surely sitting on a bus kicking people's seats while making a high pitched noise would be a better way for Chewk to piss people off.
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
The link was made by Theresa May when calling for an election.
Bigger majority => Hard Brexit.
She ended up with a smaller majority, too small to form a government.
Smaller majority => Softer Brexit.
[quote=flanagaj ]Because your an idiot?That's right @mikewsmith. Thick, stupid, ignorant, uneducated ....
U ok hun?
I'm hoping that Thatcher is still alive.
To answer the questions above:
1. Who's in government: the Tories and their climate change denying, homophobic mates who like to deny women the right to abortion.
2. Who won the referendum: Nobody. Everyone lost.
Edited as about 10 posts appeared whilst I was writing it.
U ok hun?
He might be a bit right wing but calling him a Hun? 😉
Who is in govt? Who won the referendum?
I'm beginning to grow very tired of this.
For the benefit of those who remain wilfully ignorant of how a representative democracy works, a minority government will struggle to get legislation passed, simple mental arithmetic will tell you that.
Go and read some newspapers to understand why the whole thing is up for discussion right now.
calm down calm down, without trolls this forum would just be a massive circle jerk . . . . and jamba 😕
flanagaj - Member
Because your an idiot?
That's right @mikewsmith. Thick, stupid, ignorant, uneducated
Well you couldn't read the rest of the post could you. Or present a decent argument or any reasons.
But go on...
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
The election was called in order to establish a stronger mandate for the governments approach to leaving the EU.
Neither the Tories nor Labour discussed leaving the EU in any detail, I assume that's because they both know there's nothing positive to say about it so it's best avoided as a campaign topic.
The population appear to be dissatisfied with the approach that the government is taking so the election ended up weakening the governments position.
In a way it worked exactly how intended. Government wants to know the view of the people, people spoke, now we need to see if the government's listening. So far it appears not but then they've painted themselves into a corner and have few options at least until after they've cut a deal with the DUC.
That's right @mikewsmith. Thick, stupid, ignorant, uneducated ....
Don't forget racist. Most of you are racist too. And old.
OP, convince us you're not a numpty. Can you give us a reasoned argument about why you want a Hard Brexit so much? What is it going to achieve?
What is it going to achieve?
A "communist" in no 10 and a marxist in no 11 at the current rate 😀
There's so much more to brexit than trade rules. How are we going to fly planes to europe? What happens to NI and the GFA? How do we run our nuclear power stations and manage medical isotopes? Some people might think the last item matters even if the rest doesn't. There's plenty more to think about when that's all dealt with, and note that no-one has presented any meaningful plans to deal with these few issues in the year since the brexit vote.
We've got 18 months to sort it all out, or more reasonably call the whole thing off.
A "communist" in no 10 and a marxist in no 11 at the current rate
Surely that is am IRA Terrorist in no 10 and a Marxist extremist in no 11.
We've got 18 months to sort it all out, or more reasonably call the whole thing off.
Or we have 18 months to pretend to sort it out and give enough time for even the most racist, idiotic, old brexiter to realise it is not a wise thing to do and call the whole thing off.
We can run checkpoints past the OP to see how it is going.
[quote="thecaptain"]We've got 18 months to sort it all out, or more reasonably call the whole thing off.Or fk it up. Which from where i'm sitting is looking the mostly likely outcome.
calm down calm down, without trolls this forum would just be a massive circle jerk
Whilst I accept that we all adopt an online persona, there's a gulf of difference between a lively discussion between people of differing point of view and the intellectual vacuum that we see popping up in every single thread, giving the benefit of opinion that's utterly devoid of thought. That's why 4chan exists.
Actually "doing brexit" is such a monumental task (or rather a set of tasks, many of which are monumental in themselves) that I don't really think there is much chance of it happening. Even if the current cluster**** in parliament can be resolved rapidly (which could happen even if it looks unlikely - politics can move fast on occasion). There are just too many insoluble problems out there.
Back to the subject matter in hand. There's a school of thought that the UK is in need of a dose of disaster capitalism to kick start innovation and to take a low productivity economy into a new direction. That's why the hard right brexiteers are so enthusiastic, because hand in glove with reduced employment rights, you'll create a situation whereby entrepreneurship will flourish and someone will inevitably stumble upon the next big growth industry for the Conservatives to sell to a Japanese investment bank some thirty years down the line.
Of course, a lot of people will be made poorer and the threadbare infrastructure will be starved of much needed investment, but those concerns are always secondary.
Question to the OP - why do you want a hard Brexit whereby we revert to WTO rules?
This has been a total shambles and I blame the Tory party 100% for the mess
OP I agree with you on that point,but that's all 😯
I am still crossing my fingers that a 'Hard Brexit' will be implemented.
Genuine question why?
It seems utterly daft to me but I might be missing something, always happy to learn something new.
flanagj
youve earned this
you can choose from any one of these colours, and wear it with pride
[img] 
[/img]
otherwise mikew nailed you in his first response
kimbers - Member
flanagj
youve earned this
you can choose from any one of these colours, and wear it with pride
otherwise mikew nailed you in his first response
No he did not nail anything but provided obvious views of his. 😆
It's a matter of opposing view points which everyone disagrees on ...
Remainders want to be in EU bureaucratic system while others want out.
The reminders don't agree with Brexit.
The Brexiters don't agree with the remainders.
How hard can that be?
The question is who are willing to give way? 😆
Aside from the general finger pointing (!) above there are some valid points:
Let's say the vote on EU was held again, and was again leave - what do those voting leave think they are voting for?
Doesn't seem either major party being very honest - various members of Labour have said leave means both stay in single market and also said it means leave it completely. Can't be both! As for the conservatives and what they want - who knows.
'Hard' and 'soft' brexit get bandied about but they are largely useless - totally open to individual interpretation what either means in reality.
All parties need to stop claiming who had the best outcome and pointing fingers and actually present some options for public opinion??
flanagaj - Member
As I am struggling to grasp how people are making the link between the outcome of the GE and the appetite for a hard Brexit.
I thought it was pretty straightforward, Justin: May campaigned on a policy of strengthening her mandate for hard brexit by going to the public to seek a better majority than she had. The whole premise of the election was that it was a vote of confidence in her approach; an approach that had a hard brexit at the heart of it. She herself said this, repeatedly.
She also pronounced that 'no deal is better than a bad deal', and sounded her intention for the UK to crash out if the deal wasn't what was desired. The detail on what a good deal comprised was never given. The attitude was hard-nosed, and embellished by her desire to be known as 'bloody difficult'.
Labour, while not ruling out brexit, had a more collegiate tone that seemed to offer other approaches. Discussion did not seem to be ruled out.
So, its pretty simple: TM lost her majority and the extrapolation is- confirmed by much of the RW press now- that the public desire a softer approach than what she offered.
Of course, we didn't have the surety of a one-sentence referendum paper to guide us in this 🙂 and instead must use some subtlety and inference.
NINJA EDIT:
I think that you and others will try a bit of 'creep' on this, both now and over the next wee while, along the lines of: was this GE really about our brexit approach? How do we know for sure? Mibbe it wisnae?
But lets flip that around: if you can argue that a single-sentenced question on a referendum paper can be taken as a 'yes' to a full, hard exit from every European institution that we're a member of- when [i]nothing of any detail[/i] was present on that paper...
.....then I can in turn confidently argue that a GE result was, in the main, a rejection of a PM and Tory stance on that issue.
Inference, as I said.
Still planning that riot if it doesn't happen? 😉 (just kidding you)
The Leave campaign explicitly stated that we would remain in the Single Market, there's a case to be made that those who voted Leave didn't vote for a 'hard' Brexit deal.
The Leave campaign explicitly stated that we would remain in the Single Market, there's a case to be made that those who voted Leave didn't vote for a 'hard' Brexit deal.
Brexit != Brexit.
Maybe this might help the OP.. unless he/she is leaning towards the whole 'restriction' of immigration
[img] 
[/img]
With that statement you have successfully insulted all the positivist (PhDs) on this forum. Problem they let the statement be ... where are your ethical training on research? Where? 😆codybrennan - Member
So, its pretty simple: TM lost her majority and the extrapolation is- confirmed by much of the RW press now- that the public desire a softer approach than what she offered.
Does that mean Scotland agree with Brexit and No independence now since the SNP loss so many seats? That's how I read it? Yes? Coz I can clearly establish some sort of correlation there. 😆
Does that mean Scotland agree with Brexit and No independence now since the SNP loss so many seats? That's how I read it? Yes? Coz I can clearly establish some sort of correlation there.
Probably going to regret this but here goes...
39 seats in Scotland went to parties that openly oppose Brexit
20 seats went to those who support Brexit in some form - but even the Scottish Tories seem to have no appetite for pursuing a hard brexit
Even using magical brexit maths there is no way there is a majority for Brexit in Scotland
Which brings us neatly back here:
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/04/cambridge-analytics-data-brexit-trump ]Were we sold a pup?[/url]
The Referendum only started out in response to Conservative party in-fighting. Different people voted for different things. Leaving aside the usual jingoism that English people do so very well, I know a good many people who voted leave because they don't like brown people (the best quote I ever heard was "and we'll have no more bloody commissioners from bloody Bombay telling us all what to do"). Some were afraid of refugees coming here and suddenly becoming ISIS agents. Others were understandably narked at six years of austerity whereby the government in power cut everything and there was a popular rebellion intended to kick the ruling party in the 'nads. Quite a few acquaintances on social media were miffed at light bulbs, or hairdryers or phantom regulations around fruit and veg.
How do you pick through that lot?
The number of coherent cases I've heard as to why we should leave the EU are very, very few and far between. I'm not saying that these are irrelevant, but they're incredibly uncommon in my experience.
PJM nicely put - do agree I can't see many positives of Brexit - be happy to convinced otherwise by good evidence but healthcare and academia alone seem highly likely to suffer.
My favourite was the guy who voted to stop all the immigrants coming over from Africa.......
[quote=kerley ]Or we have 18 months to pretend to sort it out and give enough time for even the most racist, idiotic, old brexiter to [s]realise it is not a wise thing to do[/s] die and call the whole thing off.
fixed
IGMC
And Steve Baker has been picked as one of the Secretaries of State for the dept for leaving the EU.
Three immediate theories:
1) He was appointed at the insistence of Murdoch and Dacre
2) May is trying to soften her approach by 'winning over' a hardliner, placing Baker amongst moderates
3) May is going all out by appointing a hardliner, to deliver the hard-right vision of Brexit, which will likely stall in the House of Commons if the rumours circulating around a Labour-Conservative moderate-Lib Dem-SNP pact are to be believed.
What I don't understand is why she's trying to form a government. I thought that under the established 2016-2017 democratic process she lost and should shut up and get over it?
Cougar - Moderator
What I don't understand is why she's trying to form a government. I thought that under the established 2016-2017 democratic process she lost and should shut up and get over it?
Lost what?
Conservatives have 318.
You want Labour to govern with 262? 😯 😆
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results ]BBC[/url]
Lost what?
A sufficient majority to form a government. Do pay attention, Bond.
Cougar - Moderator
Lost what?
A sufficient majority to form a government. Do pay attention, Bond.
So what? You want Labour to form the govt? 😆
Even if all opposition parties combine they still cannot beat Conservatives + DUP total.
What's the hurry? You can vote again in the next election after the term since we have Brexit to deal with first.
You want another election next week? 😆
If you look at the result you will realise that there is +5.5% increase in people voting for Conservatives by comparison to the last election.
Don't you think it's interesting, incidentally, that a 54% majority in a democratic election vote isn't sufficient to declare a strong enough majority to form a government, yet a 52% majority in an advisory referendum is considered sufficient to declare that "the people have spoken" and take it as an absolute mandate that that's what we must do?
The Conservatives are short of an outright majority, but still are the largest party in parliament. The House of Commons has 650 seats, so the opposition parties could team up and block the more offensive pieces of legislation. Moreover a weak parliamentary majority means a greater chance of Conservative MPs rebelling against the party whip, knowing full well that the party cannot afford to fight the resulting by-election if the incumbent MP either crosses the floor or is disciplined.
The end result is usually a loose coalition of factions, which is exactly what we're seeing now. Labour would only have a foot in the door if the largest party couldn't fight a motion of 'no confidence' which could trigger another General Election, one the Conservatives cannot afford to fight.
Theresa May's best course of action in ordinary times would be to tread water, make deals with other parties to put through watered down legislation and to keep the party apparatchiks happy - quite a juggling act.
Unfortunately, our imminent negotiation with Brussels means that May can't make a unilateral decision and bully it through parliament with the party whips - it's all about compromise and consensus. Whatever she does will almost certainly upset one party faction or other. Worst case scenario for May would be a 'no confidence' motion put forward by one of her own renegade MPs.
Cougar - ModeratorDon't you think it's interesting, incidentally, that a 54% majority in a democratic election vote isn't sufficient to declare a strong enough majority to form a government, yet a 52% majority in an advisory referendum is considered sufficient to declare that "the people have spoken" and take it as an absolute mandate that that's what we must do?
Have actually looked at the number on BBC result page? 🙄
If there is a disagreement with the voting system then go argue over that in the Parliament etc ... but in the meantime the BBC result indicates that 318 plus 10 = 328 is the winner. 😆
318 plus 10 = 326 is the winner.
Pretty normal numbers for chewkw, his speed edit was pretty impressive though.
So what? You want Labour to form the govt?
In an ideal world no. But I'd rather Slipknot formed a government than the Tories (there's probably enough of them too)
What's the hurry? You can vote again in the next election after the term since we have Brexit to deal with first.
Who's hurrying?
You want another election next week?
Not especially.
If you look at the result you will realise that there is +5.5% increase in people voting for Conservatives by comparison to the last election.
Unfortunately for you there was a 9.5% increase in those voting for labour. Odd that you didn't mention that.
Don't you think it's interesting, incidentally, that a 54% majority in a democratic election vote isn't sufficient to declare a strong enough majority to form a government, yet a 52% majority in an advisory referendum is considered sufficient to declare that "the people have spoken" and take it as an absolute mandate that that's what we must do?
But they didn't get 54% of the vote, they got 42% didn't they?
If it were referendum style with 2 choices the tories would have beaten labour and now be in power without any of their current problems. Well except they wouldn't because the SNP voters would mostly go Labour, along with Greens and most of the others.
So what we need to do is go to just 2 parties and have a simple choice for people...
akira - Member
318 plus 10 = 326 is the winner.
Pretty normal numbers for chewkw
I was thinking of the 326 line ... 😆
Mind was working very fast coz many on this forum are wrong in their arguments. 😆
But they didn't get 54% of the vote, they got 42% didn't they?
I was comparing Labour vs Conservative figures - a majority over their leading rival, rather than a majority in the house overall. Which was probably wonky thinking, in hindsight.
Mind was working very fast
I doubt that.
Cougar - Moderator
In an ideal world no. But I'd rather Slipknot formed a government than the Tories (there's probably enough of them too)
Okay in that case why not let the dust settle to everyone unite to support the govt deal with Brexit properly. 😛
Once we have exited EU bureaucratic system properly, dust settle etc, we can then start throwing handbags amongst ourselves again ... don't you think so?
I knew one of you would mention that so decided to leave that to you. 😛Unfortunately for you there was a 9.5% increase in those voting for labour. Odd that you didn't mention that.
kerley - Member
But they didn't get 54% of the vote, they got 42% didn't they?
Conservative 42.4% to be precise.
Labour 40%.
A win is a win.
😛
Okay in that case why not let the dust settle to everyone unite to support the govt deal with Brexit properly.
You'll be waiting a long time.
The government arent dealing with Brexit properly though, they seem to have no plan and if they do they arent sharing it. Anytime theyve been questioned on it it shows they are clueless and the EU know this, we have no bargaining power and May has wasted time and money on an election that has weakened our position further. Cross party negotiation for Brexit is the only way we're not going to get royally shafted.
They want to prevent Brexit happening? It's happening ... 😯Cougar - Moderator
Okay in that case why not let the dust settle to everyone unite to support the govt deal with Brexit properly.
You'll be waiting a long time.
akira - Member
The government arent dealing with Brexit properly though, they seem to have no plan and if they do they arent sharing it. Anytime theyve been questioned on it it shows they are clueless and the EU know this, we have no bargaining power and May has wasted time and money on an election that has weakened our position further. Cross party negotiation for Brexit is the only way we're not going to get royally shafted.
Clueless? 😆
You tell me who have knowledge of exiting EU bureaucratic system?
Which country has done so before UK?
Better still ask EU bureaucrats if they have dealt with member state exiting their bureaucratic system before? 😀
In the case of Greece they are at a deadlock ... nobody knows what to do ... can't move forward and can't move backward. Both are clinging on and perhaps sinking together. 😆
edit: [b]UK the pioneer, the explorer and the first![/b] 😀