[Closed] Can Someone explain link between GE result and Brexit

[quote=esselgruntfuttock ]

depends when you wish to say the EU came into existence

1st January 1973.

Did you vote in the EU referendum

Yes. No idea why. Was there actually a referendum to join the common market, cos if there was, I don't remember. (I do remember Janet, Liz, Jilly & Helen, plus 4 Bultaco trials bikes & a Montesa though)

1st January 1973.

Well there you go, I was 16 not 18 so couldn't vote anyway.

The very salient point they made is that we now have 30 years of legislation to catch up with.

I have the feeling the the government think this is a find and replace EU with UK job but they will need to account for there being no uk caselaw then. It's a really seriously complicated job that is seen as a single bill.

Have you considered that other factors like those below might be a more probable explanation?

Dementia Tax
Austerity
Theresa May's arrogant stance
Free tuition fees

Ashcroft Polling showed that all age groups went corbs, including 35-44yr olds (from 35->50%), directly affected by none of the above

Considering? the ref vote was 48% in favour there's obviously plenty out there that don't agree with it

May herself framed the election as a mandate for HER Brexit, which she'd endlessly told us was going to 'hard' , NO DEAL IS BETTER ETC & she'd be bloody difficult.

Personally I want a 2nd ref and the whole thing reversed

So I'd vote lib dem... Err no wasted vote, labour with starmer as Brexit sec , corbs protecting EU rights, single market access...so I picked the labour version.

I'm not alone...

I think a lot of brexies are worried that their small majority is in danger of reversing

So far Brexit has given us more expensive petrol, Marmite, & the rest, slower growth, political instability, and Theresa may toadying up to Donald trump,
The No plan of Brexiters is giving way to the reality of decades of expensive legal wranglings and huge expansion of UK bureaucracy (despite what the massively ignorant like chewk prattle on about) no wonder the youth are against it

500000 voters turn 18 every year, 500000 OAPs die every year

Those brexies should be worried

[quote=scotroutes ]I'm reminded that the forum has had other eccentric characters in the past and that some forum members had cause to regret what they'd written when the state of the persons mind became clear.
What I can't understand is that folk who think they are more clever/intelligent/sane that chewkw keep him entertained by responding to his threads and quoting him.

Hangs head in shame

Scotsroutes makes a good point

He does 🙁

Scotsroutes makes a good point

There's a world of difference between being eccentric Vs being a deliberately disruptive troll

He's 100% at it. His mask slips though as he somehow has an amazing grasp of English language, grammar and punctuation including flawless cockney slang plus other English colloquialisms, and every so often he'll throw in some token "chinglish" to make us believe he is who he claims he is...

I seem to remember 'The Common Market' being mentioned at some point in my life, but I think I was about 18/19 (1975/6) & more interested in women & motorbikes. Is the EU something to do with that? Serious q.

@essel in fact your question and this point throws up a very important, in fact vital issue

We joined the European [b]Economic Community[/b], known to us as [b]The Common Market[/b] (as you say early 70's I recall - not googled it 🙂 ). We where repeatedly told it was that, a business arrangement and in the IN/OUT referendum that followed a couple of years later the Govt literature repeated that it was onky about business/trade and not political. Without ever being asked again via a direct referednum question the EEC has morphed into a political union project called the European [b]Union[/b]. It has also expanded dramatically with the new members increasingly poor economically vs the established group. The EU bears no resemblance to the EEC. As a point of referemce I would have voted to Remain in the EEC and I voted to leave the EU both exactly as my lifelong Labour voting parents did.

OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE, ie leave the EU, end freedom of movement, end single market membership, end customs union membership. 594 seats out of 650. Had Labour not supported those things the result woukd have been rather different IMO

I also never had a chance to vote, being about 9 at the time, but I was always led to believe there was a strong political thread to the EEC and it wasn't just economic.

Hard to believe otherwise, given that it was largely created as a way to ensure Europe never went to war with itself again.

Anyone who thought it was purely economic probably skipped the bit of history that covered 1939 to 1945.

OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE, ie leave the EU, end freedom of movement, end single market membership, end customs union membership. 594 seats out of 650.

Prove it. Even the Tories don't all support hard Brexit. Ask Ruth's 13.

By the way OP. If the GE wasn't about Brexit, why (ostensibly) did May call a snap election in an era of fixed term parliaments? Did tuition fees suddenly become an issue to deal with which needed a new mandate for the government? If Brexit wasn't happening there would not have been an election. There's yer link.

Truth is that now the media is able to pronounce hard brexit as dead. When push comes to shove and it all starts to look a bit shitty, it will become politically acceptable to have no brexit. So it goes.

the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE,

ie leave the EU

Happy to say I voted labour [ most likely to beat the tories] and dont want to leave. I doubt I am alone in voting for a party that had a different view from me on Europe.

It took you best part of week to find that soundbite is it going to be repeated like strong and stable?

If the GE wasn't about Brexit, why (ostensibly) did May call a snap election in an era of fixed term parliaments?

they know they would not get that post brexit because they will have served up an economic mess

Brexit was a smokescreen - as jamby notes everyone supported the A50 triggering pretty much [ it was no tunder threat by the house] and a corbyn led labour is not about to get all anti Brexit as many suspect he rather liked the result.

OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE, ie leave the EU, end freedom of movement, end single market membership, end customs union membership. 594 seats out of 650.

Let's check the Labour party manifesto:

We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.

We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

So the 40% who voted Labour were [b]not[/b] voting for a hard brexit.

In fact, 52% voted for parties opposed to a hard brexit.

pfft facts you trolling him now

pfft facts you trolling him now

Sorry, my bad.

I like that he's showing his working. Even if it is utter bobbins.

Just catching up on this one from 4 hours ago stands out.

The government arent dealing with Brexit properly though, they seem to have no plan and if they do they arent sharing it. Anytime theyve been questioned on it it shows they are clueless and the EU know this, we have no bargaining power and May has wasted time and money on an election that has weakened our position further.

Maybe Mrs May is maintaining her Remain stance and working from within to collapse the enthusiasm for Brexit and make it unworkable. It's a cunning ploy and very civic-minded to implode your political party and destroy your political reputation for a cause you believe in. Well done her.
Edit or she has decided Baldrick was the way to go.

I used 'ostensibly' for a reason. She didn't say "I am calling this election so that I can increase my hold on power and outflank my opponents in the Tory party"

@sandwich, is it sad that this would be the best case scenario.
Although mostly I'm just chuffed someone quoted me as it rarely happens 😀

So the 40% who voted Labour were not voting for a hard brexit.

In fact, 52% voted for parties opposed to a hard brexit.

I voted for Labour to contribute towards preventing the Tories gaining a seat in my narrowly Labour-held constituency. The notion that I voted for them as a vote in favour of any sort of Brexit at all is special pleading from the Leavers.

In what is nationally a two-horse race for all practical purposes where both parties are at least publicly pro-brexit even if many / most of their members aren't, summarily declaring all votes for either party to be blanket support for Leave is a special kind of [s]stupid[/s] [s]lies[/s] spin.

Although mostly I'm just chuffed someone quoted me as it rarely happens

And again! Best day of my life, wait till I tell the guys at work about this.

Labour Brexit policy looks much the same as May's version really, despite a few encouraging words dressing it up.

Because of that, most people voted based on all the issues other than Brexit, in Labour/Conservative marginal seats.

Still waiting to here why a hard brexit is such a good idea.... Do I need to get a good book?

Hard Brexit is great if you want big corporations to be able to take back control.

and yet even the corporations are saying they really don't want it as it hurts them.

.OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE, ie leave the EU, end freedom of movement, end single market membership, end customs union membership. 594 seats out of 650. Had Labour not supported those things the result woukd have been rather different IMO

Good lord Jamba, even for you that's a funny version of the truth. I'd love to know if you really believe it or you just post it for attention.

OP...

You're obviously new round here....

But here's a pointer....

If chewkw is your only flag waver...... it's time to get a different flag!

Still waiting to here why a hard brexit is such a good idea

I'm still waiting to hear why any Brexit is a good idea, TBH. Even the OP has failed to explain why they're crossing their fingers for a hard Brexit despite being asked a couple of times, five pages in now.

[quote=spw3 ]Then ignore him. But the insults in this thread have gone a bit far I think.

I know we've moved on from this, and not wanting to stir it up, but point of order here, the worst insults I can find on here are:
[quote=PJM1974 ]I think that it's probably for the best if our troll friend sits out the remainder of the thread, don't you guys?
Chewkw, your response is neither required, nor wanted.

and
[quote=BoardinBob ]Can you imagine being stuck in the same office as that clown?
£100 says he's universally despised by all his colleagues

am I missing something, or is this accusation of horrible insults being thrown around #fakenews (TBH the reason I checked is that such accusations rarely seem to be backed up by the facts)?

Personally I just blocked chewy recently, as I got bored, and having never been a fan of doing that I've been surprised how refreshing it makes reading threads like this.

[quote=Cougar ]I'm still waiting to hear why any Brexit is a good idea, TBH.

Interestingly I've seen an argument, which appears to be valid, that there are some benefits to hard Brexit, but none at all to soft Brexit. Of course such an argument doesn't mean either that hard Brexit is a good idea, or even that hard Brexit is preferable to soft Brexit (and the person posting wasn't suggesting either of those), but it's an interesting perspective that soft Brexit doesn't gain us anything at all, whilst hard Brexit does.

[quote=oldnpastit ]

OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE, ie leave the EU, end freedom of movement, end single market membership, end customs union membership. 594 seats out of 650.

I'll help jamba out a bit here (before shooting him down). The Labour Party manifesto also says:

Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union.

Which is I presume what he's relying on for that claim. However as you pointed out it also says:

strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

My conclusion: the Brexit part of the Labour manifesto is inherently contradictory and it's impossible to achieve all of the purported aims. For all of jamba's reliance upon them I suspect that the words about Freedom of Movement are being disingenuous - if you ninfan it, you realise it is simply a statement of fact, it says nothing about what will be negotiated as part of the deal to retain access to the Single Market, which is part of what they will "put first".

Of course that is all ignoring the complete fallacy of the claim about people voting for a hard Brexit - as it happens I did vote Lib Dem (fat lot of good it did, though voting Labour would have made no difference either), but in a different constituency I would have voted Labour in the hope of a coalition being formed between Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP, which would quite surely have resulted in a significant move away from hard Brexit, if not having the whole thing cancelled. Given however optimistically you looked at the polls there was no realistic chance of a Labour majority, I'd suggest it's quite reasonable to claim that a vote for Labour was a vote for such a Brexit cancelling coalition.

strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

How many times do the EU have to state that fact for our politicians/ the people to accept that you are not going to get a sweet deal?

So Labour the SNP and others should actually state. "We will stay in the single market, customs union and accept free movement of EU citizens" rather than making these fallacious claims.

I'll await the barrage 🙂

I keep hearing these claims from those that want a softer exit from the EU. The truth is, it ain't going to happen, unless you accept the founding principle of freedom of movement.

I have some sympathy there. Which is why on one of these threads (I forget which) I suggested no Brexit is back on the table even though no one is saying it publicly (I don't count).

I keep hearing these claims from those that want a softer exit from the EU. The truth is, it ain't going to happen, unless you accept the founding principle of freedom of movement.

This is true. There is no such thing as a soft brexit. The best soft brexit deal we could possibly have is the one we've currently got. Anything else is just a deterioration of what we have already. I was and still am on the fence regarding brexit, but my view is that if we do have brexit it has to be and can only be a hard brexit. The whole point of brexit is to free us from the shackles of the EU so we can become masters of our own destiny and look outwards into the world and deal with the rest of the world without having to answer to anyone else. That is the only hope that brexit has of being a success. Anything else is not brexit.

The EU will not allow us to have access to the market AND be released form freedom of movement and the law making machine of the EU. They just won't as the effect on the rest of the EU will be huge and threaten the whole project. We cannot be seen to be benefitting from leaving the EU. That is their red line. May knows this hence the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' as she's teeing up the possibility/probability of a hard brexit. She was going to try to get the 'cake and eat it' deal, but knows full well we don't have a cat in hells chance of getting it, and anything else is a bad deal.

Having said all that i'm not sure brexit is back on the table. I think the 'stupid people' knew exactly that when they voted in the referendum for brexit they had squarely in their mind a hard brexit. However the longer all this drags on the uncertainty is bound to have an impact on the economy and people might start to wobble. I suspect this is the tactic of the remainders - to stall proceedings as long as possible to try to force a second referendum.

No second referendum. They are fundamentally undemocratic with their false binary choices. You couldn't come up with a question everyone would agree on anyway. Just cancel Brexit.

The whole point of brexit is to free us from the shackles of the EU so we can become masters of our own destiny and look outwards into the world and deal with the rest of the world without having to answer to anyone else

Really? Most every 'reason' I heard (including immediate family, we are sharply divided) has been either 'sick of immigrants taking our jobs/eroding Englishness' and/or general dissatisfaction with the economy/Cameron's government, 'North/South divide' and class issues. It just seemed like a general protest vote in the midst of austerity. The puppeteers who engineered this somehow managed to remain (sic) hidden in plain sight.

well, May seems to be pressing on regardless anyway despite the interventions of 2 former Tory PMs, so perhaps the OP will get what he wants.

well, May seems to be pressing on regardless anyway

Yes heard that, she really doesn't seem to understand democracy or working together.

OP the truth is the GE 85% of the people voted for a hard Brexit at the GE,

An obvious lie. At least chewy is amusing - Jamba is at best tedious and at worst dangerous.

Of course May is pushing on. She is the Prime Minister and 85% of voters voted for parties supporting her vision of Brexit

85% of voters voted for parties supporting her vision of Brexit

Liar.