[Closed] Buying a car - bangernomics, tax, MOT, insurance?

Any car over 3 years old requires an annual MOT.

You ( and anyone who drives the car ) must have at least 3rd party insurance.

Road fund is payable every 6 or 12 months.

I have a 1998 SAAB 900 - built like a tank and never fails.

If you can put up with 30mpg they're stunning!

There are some great bangers around, plenty with the big end about to go also.

No idea how to tell between the 2.

playing bangernomics id always buy a ford - strong enough they dont fall apart - but not so strong they retain their value excellently.

My first 2 cars were both 600 quid both fords both from 1995 - 1 derv fiesta - 1 petrol escort

both were great and cheap to fix if they did go wrong - deviated from that for my last car and had nothing but trouble with expensive bits that very few folk make - hyundai

Is it every weekend, most weekends or some weekends you'll be using it? If you've already got a solution for day to day transport then option three is to just hire the car / van / whatever you want.

A £500 car will still cost another £1000 or so a year, at least to tax/insure/MOT/service. Look at the weekend hire rates for cars locally, divide £1500 by that number and see how many weekends away that would fund (perhaps 20) in a newer car than your £5k option, that will always be exactly the right size and shape of car for the job. If you are going to do regular business with a hire co an account will be even cheaper, my account would get me a hire a car almost every weekend of the year for £1500

Old Volvo's and SAAB's seem like good options for a banger?

With MOT's, I guess these are the same as 'Roadworthy Certificates' back in Oz? Back home whenever I had to get a RWC I always found myself getting charged to the tune of a couple of grand to fix bits and bobs, is that common here with MOT as well?

With 3rd party, what's the cheapest way to sort this? I assume it needs to be done before you even take a private car for a test drive?

http://www.bangernomics.com/Bangernomics.html

The key thing about bangernomics is that you are not buying a car, but transport - and from that point everything is about cash. You need to know when to walk away, when to spend and the value (basically how long is the MOT).

If you do only a few miles, mpg is pretty irrelevent, consequently big old cars are a good buy - built well and looked after for most of their life.

Third party insurance, and no more - as you are never going to claim, unless as a third party.

Tax costs.

I've run a few bangers, but TBH happier spending a bit more nearer £2k instead of £500.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230442033084&ih=013&category=9837

This kind of thing for me, esp. as the bits for these are quite cheap now.

Is it every weekend, most weekends or some weekends you'll be using it?

Probably some weekends... but I have days off during the week (when I'm working a weekend) and I'd like to be able to just jump in my transport and drive somewhere for a ride... convenience and all that 😆

So if I can find am el-cheapo car with 12 months MOT, so I don't need to worry about that for a year, that'd be a good start? How about something like this: Volvo 940 SE Turbo Estate. 12 Months MOT & Taxed £495 Bargain

for insurance, use confused.com or comparethemarket.com to compare costs from (literally) hundreds of insurers. trouble is, 3rd party insurance applies to you in a particular car, not you in any car. might be more expensive too as you're aussi so can't drive properly 😉

yep, MOT = roadworthy cert.

not all cars are bad. I ran on bangernomics for years, and didn't ever have any problems beyond normal consumables - brake pads, discs, glow plugs, oil, filters, tyres etc....

plenty of good old cheap cars around. look for one or two owners, and generally one that looks like it's been well looked after. anything japanese is good - corolla, civic etc..., though fords and vauxhalls are cheap to fix if you can't do it yourself (mainly as there are lots of non-OEM parts around). they will go wrong though.

Volvo 940 SE Turbo Estate. 12 Months MOT & Taxed £495 Bargain

it's got a turbo. too complicated for bangormatics. go simple.

someone was selling a golf vr6 on here the other day for 2k. that'd be ace 🙂

convenience and all that

the hire co won't mind what day of the week it is, if there is one local to you (and plenty will deliver to your door) then hire cars are convenient for occasional use. Unless you mean convenient to nip out to the shops.

One issue with cheap bangers is the risk of getting saddled with them, if you're not living somethere where you can get the car off the road then failing MOTS/tax expiring means the car is suddenly sitting on the road illegally and you've got the hassle of trying to offload it. Bangers can very suddenly become inconvenient.

For test drives etc, you can get instant insurance online, about £30 a day or so. You just print out the cover note and take it with you. Can't use it to tax a car though, need proper insurance for that.

someone was selling a golf vr6 on here the other day for 2k. that'd be ace

Was [i]very [/i]tempted by that... but dilly dallied too long and it went 🙁

[url= http://www.gumtree.com/london/83/54314583.html ]This looks like fun[/url], but again probably too complicated for Bangernomics right? If a car has passed it's MOT, should this mean that everything in it is tickety boo and will last till the next one? Does an MOT give you that sort of piece of mind?

Bangernomics is great.One thought though: Major downside with confused.com or comparethemarket.com is that you have to be prepared to get metric shedloads of junkmail for the next six months.

[url= http://www.gumtree.com/london/78/54215978.html ]Volvo V70 for £900[/url]? Might go check this one out, what do you guys reckon?

Buying bangers is basically a lottery, but if you get lucky, it's mint. I paid £1000 for an ugly Astra 5 years ago and I've probably lost £500 in depreciation and spend £400 on MOTs and repairs. It does the job fine, and basically it's cost me virtually nowt to own and run compared to the several thousand quid each of my mates forks out every time they buy/sell/maintain their newer/flashier/less reliable motors. It helps that I work from home and hardly drive anywhere. And I like the freedom of paying cash and avoiding finance.

I'd probably look for a petrol Escort/Focus, or older petrol Mondeo. Avoid things like aircon, and turbos that will cost if they need to be fixed.
Insurance will cost you a fair whack- I'm guessing you've got no ncd from here, depending on your age, and the insurance group the car falls into it could run close to a grand.

An MOT only covers safety (brakes, tyres, windscreen kinda stuff) and emissions. It wont tell you that the engine is about to die of the gearbox is knackered or the battery is dead or the radiator is leaking etc etc.

Go simple. Bigger engined cars seem to last longer and as theyre 'unfashionable' are relatively cheap. Also cars that have had one owner or owned in the same family seem better looked after. Maybe a Vectra / Mondeo / Primera?

Having 12 months MOT *only* means that on the day of the test those items that were tested were OK.

Nothing more.

that v70 sounds well looked after, though be careful with the autobox. insurance will be quite high though i think.

eeek, that legacy is tempting!!

MOT is only a safety test - it's be no means anything approaching a guarantee that all is well under the bonnet. It just means the tyres are ok, the brakes work (though who knows for how much longer) etc...

bangormatics works much better if you're mechanically minded and have access to tools 🙂

should this mean that everything in it is tickety boo and will last till the next one?

Cool... but would a mechanic make mention of problems on a MOT? They do back home on a RWC (generally).

**** me... just been playing around with insurance quotes, £1100 3rd party only for a £500 car??? How's that work FFS?

On these comparison sites, they ask how long I've had a licence for, I've just swapped my aussie one to a UK Full, so have only had a UK licence for a month or so, but have been driving for 16 years with no claims or infringements, does this count at all?

firstly get a diesel, volvo if you want bags of room and they NEVER die or a peugeot HDI diesel, make sure they both had regular oil/filter changes. I've got both, the peugeot (406)has just gone past 100,000 and still regularly gets 50 -60mpg on a run and you regularly see them still going with 2 -300,000 on the clock, thats why so many are now taxis. for the volvo get the D5 version, even in diesel form its a rocket ship!

I was told to count mine from the year I got the licence, not the year I swapped it.
Did you have any ncd from home- if it was recent they might count it, but you'll need to speak to the insurance company, not take out the policy online, which'll lose you the 10% discount you normally get of buying online...

Have a look at the insurance groupings- for the first year it'll make things a lot cheaper if you buy a car in groups 1-6ish- an Escort, Fiesta, Astra, Corsa, that sort of thing.

buy something simple, non-turbo'd & with at least 6 months MOT.

A 90s Honda, Nissan or Toyota could be a good buy.

I'd be tempted by a 2.5/3.0 Manual Vauxhall Omega (very similar to a Holden Commodore) that seem to be sold for peanuts these days, although might be a bit thirsty.

We usually buy a car nearly new and then keep it for years, on our third one now since 1987

Point being we sold the last one a Honda Civic with 9 months MOT, 3 months tax, half a tank of petrol and 68k on the clock for 200 quid
Fair enough it would have needed some welding for its next test, but 9 months motoring for that sort of money is a result

Chap bought it xmas eve and reckoned it was cheaper than train fares to go up north for the festive period
Must have been alright, got a letter with picture of the car demanding a fine for being in a Sheffield bus lane on New Years Eve.

Some cheap decent motors out there and most people like us sell privately for beer money just to save all the hassle of having an additional car that's not needed hanging about

Insurance is probably your biggest cost. Living in London, parking on the street and having no insurance history here will mean a big bill, even third-party only.

As said, MOT is a safety test - if the car's older it probably won't need emissions checks so could be running in any old state and it'll pass as long as it makes it to the centre and through the test. They'll issue advisories for anything they pick up that isn't worthy of a fail, but that's only for things they check. Things like rust will only fail a car if it's around structural areas like suspension points. Brakes are tested for effectiveness but they won't be taking wheels off and checking how much pad life is left, when the fluid was last changed, that sort of thing.

Tax - assuming you're buying pre-2001 it's £205 per year if over 1549cc (£125 under). Later than that it will go from free to £400ish depending on how many CO2s it puts out.

The insurance kills it for a lot of people. Most antipodeans I know are on streetcar as it works out cheaper for their use, and if it's going to be a longer trip then there are loads of conventional hire places in London where you can get a standard hatch for about £30/day, usually on short notice too.

[i]**** me... just been playing around with insurance quotes, £1100 3rd party only for a £500 car??? How's that work FFS?[/i]

Its got very little to do with the value/cost of your car, more the cost of you running someone over and/or benting their Bentley.

Bangers can very suddenly become inconvenient.

I think the point of bangernomics is you buy the transport, as soon as the car becomes financially unviable you either flog it at whatever cost someone will pay for it, or scrap it (and many will pay for it too). Otherwise it's not really bangernomics, it's just "buying a cheap car".

My personal choice would be a low-power peugoet (something like a 306) with long tax and MOT. If they break they're cheap as chips to fix, they don't rust, they'er so simple they rarely break, and decent ones can be had for <500 with ease. My first car was a cheap peugeot 205 1.1, it lasted well over 5 years until someone wrote it off, and it would have lasted another 5 with ease.

you're 16 years may help - but you'll have to call the insurers direct. quite a few do reciprocal 'no-claims' for places like NZ, Oz, US, Canada... you'll still need to provide proof of no claims though.

as mentioned - it's the damage you do to someone else's car they're scared off. with 3rd party, if it's you fault, value of your own car is irrelevant as damage to it is not covered.

3rd party quote of £758 for an £1100 1998 Vauxhall Astra 1.7 Diesel Estate... is that reasonable??

engine is bomb proof isuzu

im 23 and have zero no claims on my van and pay 450 quid a year ...

i do have NCB on my car but wasnt allowed to use it !

should be able to get less on that astra !

never really had comprehensive insurance back in Australia, we have 'Compulsory Third Party' that's paid as part of your registration (or tax as you guys call it?), never had a claim on it (have never had an accident in 16 years). Don't know if I could get proof of no claims (can't even remember who I was insured through for CTP)...

Third party insurance, and no more - as you are never going to claim, unless as a third party.

What if you cause an accident which disables you?

[url= http://www.gumtree.com/london/78/54215978.html ]This Volvo V70 estate[/url] seems really good for the money (£900) and it's only 5 minutes up the road from me, but insurance is coming in at £1100 Third Party only... it's Group 12, what does that mean?

ctp won't count for ncd here- that's only for injuries to a person, not damage to a vehicle.

This is useful reading: [url= http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/compare-cheap-car-insurance ]Moneysavingexpert[/url]

have you phoned insurance companys and explained situation though ? just tell them you have been driving in a foreign country for 16 years. JUust the act of driving for 16 years should make a difference even if you cant proove your no claims

OK... directline is looking more reasonable, though still £600-£1000 depending on the car (though this includes my wife as a 2nd driver and is comprehensive...)

Shall have to weigh up all these costs me-thinks...

[i]What if you cause an accident which disables you? [/i]

And neither TPFT nor Comp will cover you either.

Car Insurance Groups are from 1 to 20. 1 being the cheapest, 20 being the highest.

Group 12 means that it's going to be more to insure as it's either quicker/more desirable/or some other criteria.

Bigger engines = higher insurance group = higher insurance cost.

So a bit of a summary then (if I'm going down the banger route):

1) look for a car with 12 months MOT
2) 1-2 owners, service history (can this be faked?)
3) Diesel (non-turbo?)
4) Vauxhall, Ford, Peugeot (any others?)

Anything else I'm missing (or got wrong?)

cheers good folk of STW, appreciate your help 🙂

Bigger engines = higher insurance group = higher insurance cost

So that'd be why the 2.5l Volvo is coming in at over a £1000 to insure?

What cars fall into the lowest groups? Is there a list somewhere?

EDIT: I know JFGI (just did, found a useful site, Parkers 😉 )

Fiat Seicento is going to be one of the cheapest.

I always think you can tell a lot about how good a car will be by judging the last owners.

I've bought a £400 Mk2 Golf, ran it for a year without any issues and sold it for £380 just before the MOT. I then bought a Mk3 TDI Golf for £1100 ran it for 3 years with hardly any cost and then got shot for around £500 (probably could of got more but wanted a quick sale).

Both of which had respectible owners with kids who obviously fixed anything and everything when it needed doing.

I wouldn't rule out any make. Honda/Toyota/VW/Volvo...even some old french Peugeots and Citroens can on forever...judge the car on it's merits and owners, not the marque.

ok... insurance is starting to make more sense, I need to be looking for something in group 1-6 to get a decent deal right? No point looking at a big-engined or turbo charged petrol beasty just now 😆

What cars fall into the lowest groups?

1.0l, 1.1l or 1.2l small cars like the Seicento mentioned above and base spec Micra's and things.

Astra's/Golfs/Focus' I guess are going to be around groups 5-8 unless you get the top spec.

Just so you know, even the same model of car will have multiple different insurance group catagories depending on it's specification.

I think we'd like an estate, just to make things easier with throwing bikes in the back etc... but I guess with just the 2 of us a hatchback would do as well, can always fold the seats down...

I was warned off buying an old Volvo because spares are very expensive and scarce.

Used to do Bangernomics, and it can be frustrating how long some old cars lasted (when I was getting fed up with them).

Nissan Primera and Ford Mondeo both give a lot of car for very little money. The old wedge shaped Rover 200 series was amazingly reliable for an English car.

They're all relatively nice to drive as well.

If insurance group is a consideration, the old Fiesta 1.25 Zetec could be worth a look. Has a great engine and drives nice.

You'll just need to get a bike rack.

Insurance group 1 cars:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/insurance/Groups/by-group.aspx?ig=1

Change the ig=1 to ig=X for insurance group X.

While it's certainly nice to have an extate, I managed for years with an old pegueot 205 hatchback, carrying bikes AND camping gear AND kite gear.

what about old cars? like 60's mini or something? do they have a special insurance grouping (can't seem to find them on the list?)

You can get classic car insurance on a range of cars 10years or older. Most will mean you can only do <5000 miles per year.

Google classic car insurance...a friend has used these in the past (on a Vauxhall Cavalier of all things)

http://www.lancasterinsurance.co.uk/

old wedge shaped Rover 200 series was amazingly reliable for an English car.

that's cos they were honda civics in disguise.

pug 205 - last forever. fix with a hammer and a spanner generally.
pug 306 - low insurance, non turbo diesel or petrol as above, and good economy from the petrols.

jap stuff tends to be higher insurance as traditionally higher cost to repair, which isnt taken into account for third party only...

ford focus - ford started to build decent cars with the focus. 1.4 & 1.6 petrol cheap to insure & reliable. easy & cheap to fix.

ford mondeo - good to drive, built very solidly for mega miles. again, petrol reliable but insurance is higher than the others above.

yep, classic car insurance, you'll have to phone a broker though (like going on money supermarket, but you get to speek to a real person).

With classic cars there's 2 options..........

Buy a banger: it will fall apart before the next MOT and you can either spend more than its value repairing it, flog it on as a project/spares to someone for £300, or if you have a garrage split it (£50 for a working alternator, £100 for a sub frame, £20 for headlamps, it all adds up, even if its only worth £300, and needs £3000 spending to get it on the road, it'll be worth a fortune in spare parts, my midget is worth £4k ish as a car, chassis and body alone is worth £7k!!!). Either that or buy a good one, but they cost as much as a new car, and any savings in depreciation will be lost in repairs as your in london therefore dont have a garrage to do them yourself, and by keeping it outside you condeming it to rust within a year.

For the amount of miles you will do, you should be able to take a few quid off the insurance for only doing say 3000 per year. Also, can you put someone else on the insurance as a named driver eg much older than you, probably female who has loads of no claims discount as this will also reduce the premium.

I used to spend apx £400 per month on cars, but 2 years ago bought a Pug 206 for about £1300. I was unfortunate that it just had to have apx £400 worth of work on it, but it now has another 12 months MOT and even if it lasts another year and would have cost £2000 for purchase and repairs, it will still have been a cheap car at less than £700 per year.

that's cos they were honda civics in disguise.

I think the Honda version was called the "Concerto".

Mine had the 1.4 Rover engine though, and the mechanic told me they lasted better tham the 1.6 Honda engine.

I'm on my second "bubble" shape rover 200 diesel - first one lasted to 217K miles before it was crashed into, my 2nd one is currently on 136K miles.

Same applies to them as it does the 306, although I would be looking at turbos tbh, get the versions without an intercooler and it's all controlled mechanically and is bombproof. Insurance is a little higher because it's a 2liter, but it's not amazingly powerful, back is plenty big enough for a bike with the rear seats down.

Will cost you £5-800 for a decent one.

Classic is the way to go, that doesnt mean you have to get something ancient, as mentioned Classic starts at 10 or 15 years. Ive got Fully Comp with european cover for me and my wife for 100 squid on a camper. Its limited to 5K miles per year but that speedo cable is really dodgy!

Did you say you lived in London, if so check that your car (especially if its an old Diesel)is OK within the Low Emission zone thing.
If its a banger your after check out your local breakers and see what kind of cars are about for spare parts, fords are plentiful for example, loads of spares then you dont have to buy new bits. My brother in laws Saab engine went pop and even for a snotter of an engine from the breakers was over a grand, however a mate got a Diesel engine fitted for his 205 Peugot for 250 quid all in.
Hope that helps

b r - Member

"What if you cause an accident which disables you?"

And neither TPFT nor Comp will cover you either.

Comprehensive cover covers you for personal injury as well.

To the OP - as you happy to drive round in a worn out car? I personally am not.

To the OP - as you happy to drive round in a worn out car? I personally am not

Worn out is OK, as long as it's mechanically sound... it'll be treated roughly anyhow (bikes and muddy stuff thrown in the back etc), so not that fussed on cosmetics...

Any camper van for £7k is going to be an old heap of crap. A car for that sum would be very decent indeed.

Campervans are ludicrously over-valued.

As for bangers - crash safety is an issue for me.

pshycle...

I have a great little banger coming up for grabs soonish.

Its about as cheap to run as possible, its a Daewoo Matiz, 2000, 900cc or pure pulsating power, back seats fold easily to accept a couple of bikes, clean and presentable, tax and MOT, 4 new tyres, its been 100% reliable since I bought it in October £700. only selling as my pal has a slightly better old banger coming up soon.

My advice if your thinking of pushing up to 7k for something decent is buy new, can get a new Fiat Panda for that money, 55-65mpg and £35 a year road tax.

My advice if your thinking of pushing up to 7k for something decent is buy new

Never buy new. It's a waste of money. If you want new, buy one year old and it'll be indistinguisable in all practical ways from a new car but be thousands cheaper.

mmmm, thats rubbish if you can get a brand new car for 7k with the full warranty for 3 years, then its a no brainer after your 3 years it will still have a value of about 50% so it would have cost you £1116 in depreciation per year, you would need a lot of luck to run a banger for 3 years for the same price.

I do however agree if you could get an ex demo or something with a further reduction your onto a definate winner.

If your looking at 20k mid size motors, yes what your saying is true but at 7k new, its an entirely differnt ball game.

aaargh.... I don't know what to do 🙁 it's doing my head in a little...

I want a car to get a bit more freedom and flexibility in my life, at the moment if I want to go for a ride (offroad) I have to get kitted up at home, ride to Waterloo and then get the train to Dorking, all in around 2hrs each way; and yes, I know it could well take the same length of time in a car! the difference is that once I've finished my ride I can strip off the muddy gear, get changed, throw the bike in the back and drive home all nice and warm 🙂 Plus if I get a bikewasher thingo, I'd be able to clean my bike whilst still at the trail, bonus 🙂

We can afford a new car, no worries, should qualify for 0% APR with a deposit, but realistically an older vehicle will suit us fine, after all it's going to get dirty quickly with all this MTB lark 😆

Here are my sums so far:

Banger: £1000
Insurance: up to £800pa (!!) to start with (2 people, comprehensive inc hire car)
MOT: ?
Servicing/Maintenance: £500pa?
Parking: £90 annual permit
Tax: £200?
Anything else?:

So budget £2500 in the first year = £48 per week, used on average 1-2 days a week, still cheaper than a hire car perhaps??

I rekon your sums are about right, its all about having a bit of luck with £1000 cars, the MOT cost will fit inside of your servicing & maint costs I think its about £35 these days. Road tax can be down to £125 for a small car.

But your 2nd year with it will be down to £30 a week for year 2 if your banger is a good one.

Now you need luck!! or my Matiz. 😉

Fuel?
Breakdown cover 🙂

couldashouldawoulda - Member
An MOT only covers safety (brakes, tyres, windscreen kinda stuff) and emissions. It wont tell you that the engine is about to die of the gearbox is knackered or the battery is dead or the radiator is leaking etc etc.

The MOT might highlight a badly maintained diesel engine on the smoke test though, however they make you sign a disclaimer for damage caused by the emissions test don't they?

tinsy - MOT is 45-60 depending on where you go.

missingfrontallobe - not signed, but they ask if you've done the belts etc.

want a car to get a bit more freedom and flexibility in my life, at the moment if I want to go for a ride (offroad) I have to get kitted up at home, ride to Waterloo and then get the train to Dorking, all in around 2hrs each way

First mistake:
Living in London

If you can afford a new car, and don't care about 'image' - look at a Kia and/or Hyundai (same company) - maybe ex-demo/6 month old - still have all the warrenties, but cheap motoring for the 6-7 years.

First mistake: Living in London

True enough... but we have a good deal on a flat here (£700 per month for our own place!) and we both have OK jobs (wife much better paid than mine), so this is where we'll stay for now. I'd love to move up North, but that depends entirely on the other half getting a job she wants...

br is right on the money.. similar to the Fiat Panda idea of mine but much longer warranty.

but I will work on the Fiat cos its where my money would go.

7k brand new. assume running for 3 years.

approx 50% depreciation

So yearly

£1116 depreciation
£300 servicing, being generous I rekon.
£35 road tax
= £1450 Thats it, thats all it should cost per year .

£27.90 a week (need to add your insurance of course)

and it will be loads better on fuel than pretty much any banger.

Hmmm... how about this [url= http://www.gumtree.com/london/50/54353650.html ]1992 VW Polo 1.3L for £295 with 12 months MOT[/url]? Pretty basic car, should be reliable?

Its all about luck... thats 8 years older than my Matiz, surely you can do better than that, way better to spend the 1k your on about in my opinion, and get something 10 years newer.

tinsy - you forgot insurance. but yeah, it works out a bit better still. probably.

bangornomics. Get something cheap to insure, hopefully simple (diesel (not turbo'ed) or most petrol cars) and cheap to repair (ford etc..). Don't be bothered by badge (not german or sort after make) and try to get something newer and lower mileage.

I'd buy private from someone who has looked after there car (service history if possible and long ownership). Remember "nice people sell nice cars".

Ask around at work. Anyones grandma selling their car?

Still reckon in London you are better off with streetcar and a portable washer 😀