[Closed] Bull fighting

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/karma ]Ahem...[/url]

And I agree with FrelfinSafety...the bull must have been terrified. What a way to spend your last few hours as such a magnificent animal.

😳

Hello Mowgli! 😀

In fairness, the 'Karma' thread title doesn't give any clue as to it's content.

I feel sorry for the poor terrified animal tbh. About time Spain banned this barbaric practice, tradition or not.

Mind you, it's about time we properly banned fox hunting too really.

(Sits back with cup of tea and plate of biscuits. Waits...)

EDIT: Actually, sorry, I should have said hello and welcome. It's one of the things you have to get used to here. Before you post up a link, you need to carefully check someone else hasn't. Or you can just have a life and do it anyway

Normally, the thread that was posted first runs...unless it was by a forum heavyweight (you'll get to know those too) in which case that inevitably takes precedence.

Cock fighting, badger baiting, burning witches and all sorts of other horrid things were 'tradition' here but we've managed, if not to eradicate them, then at least push them to the very edges of society.

Will be a while before the EU gets round to it unfortunately.

EDIT: yessir. verygoodsir. 🙂

I said "go the bull" out loud.

Having seen the clip on Sky, seems to me that the bull knew exactly where to jump to get over the barrier & surrounding wall.

Sooner it is banned, the better, although setting a bull loose among a stadium of 5,000 spanish on a weekly basis could be a half decent TV spectator sport 😮

i defend spains right to bullfighting...... but im all for the bull scoring a few points on its way out.

i have equal disregard for human and animal life.

😯

Yeah - secrety cheer for the bull... up until the point that a human gets tossed like a salad or gored in the nethers. There'd need to be something wrong with you to enjoy that.

IMO if a bull does something amazing like that it should be spared and allowed to see out it's days on prime pasture surrounded by all the heifers it wants.

Having said that - it's a bloody bull. Anthropomorphising it is not going to make it into some kind of hero - or make it think any differently. Humans are cruel bas**rds sometimes - and life is sometimes harsh - that is the lesson of bullfighting. Sometimes it's useful (not necessarily fun, or comfortable) to be reminded of that.

Yeah - secrety cheer for the bull... up until the point that a human gets tossed like a salad or gored in the nethers. There'd need to be something wrong with you to enjoy that.

Not at all, I'd hope anyone enjoying watching an animal getting killed for fun would accept that I can enjoy watching the bull get its own back.

Anyone watching an animal get killed for fun, should equally enjoy watching a human get killed for fun. Can't really see why one is worse than t'other myself.

There'd need to be something wrong with you to enjoy that.

What about watching an animal tormented to within an inch of its life before being speared to death by some cock dressed as a ballet dancer? Each and every spectator that got gored by the bull fully deserved it*

apart from maybe any youngsters that were dragged there my Mama and/or Papa

That's a load of bull (pun absolutely acknowledged) coffeeking.

You been to a bullfight?

Sad allround. I'd neither cheer the bull etc.

You been to a bullfight?

I hope you're not requiring attendance at some event for the right to comment on the barbarism of it?

That's a load of bull (pun absolutely acknowledged) coffeeking.

You been to a bullfight?

No, I've seen footage of several. Care to tell me where I'm going wrong with my assessment?

Oh, here we go...

Surely you owe it to your species to put human life above much else?

I agree that as 'entertainment' it is a barbaric spectacle - but as a reminder that we're all animals and that nature is raw in tooth and claw, it's certainly thought-provoking.

The bull was bred and reared for the purpose - in better than average conditions - by humans who treated it with a respect bordering on love. Do you know what happens to the vast majority of male calves?

I think if you eat meat at all, you should be reminded sometimes of the barbaric nature of the whole process.

No, I've seen footage of several. Care to tell me where I'm going wrong with my assessment?

In the fact that if you keep rooting for the bull once it's gored a human and has him unconscious and bleeding on the sand... then there is something seriously wrong with your sense of human compassion.

The emotional u-turn you perform at such a moment cannot be got across via youtube clips etc.

I preferred to reserve my own opinion until I had been to a bullfight. It really is special. A man standing a few centimetres away from a killer bull, see the recent news there have been a few revenge of the bull attacks. The atmosphere is incredible and the bull receives a huge amount of respect, people who haven't ever been will tell me this is bullcrap!
When a bull is killed cleanly, ie. first attempt is spectacular. I've also seen some messy, slow kills which are not pleasant, but hey, animals die and are killed.
At least the Spanish accept that the bullfight is a sport/art rather than the w*nkers in the UK who try to say that the fox hunt is a legitimate form of pest control. Really? Why not shoot the ****ers then?
Some of the antics with bulls are archaic, but in general the fighting bulls are respected and a 500kg bull against a 80kg is quite something. Would you volunteer to be in the same field as one of these bulls, let alone having in trying to charge you down?
Sorry, but it's easy to critisize when you don't understand.

I too have a wry smile when the bull gets one back!

The bull was bred and reared for the purpose - in better than average conditions - by humans who treated it with a respect bordering on love. Do you know what happens to the vast majority of male calves?

Well bully for him. The lucky bastard.
🙄

preferred to reserve my own opinion until I had been to a bullfight

True dat.

Surely you owe it to your species to put human life above much else?

I don't owe my species anything.

I agree that as 'entertainment' it is a barbaric spectacle - but as a reminder that we're all animals and that nature is raw in tooth and claw, it's certainly thought-provoking.

So?

The bull was bred and reared for the purpose - in better than average conditions - by humans who treated it with a respect bordering on love. Do you know what happens to the vast majority of male calves?

How it was treated is barely relevant, if at all. Making the first part of its life happy and pleasant does not excuse the barbaric, terrifying, miserable end.

I think if you eat meat at all, you should be reminded sometimes of the barbaric nature of the whole process.

I eat meat that has been reared kindly, treated well and killed humanely. I don't enjoy the fact that it died for me to eat, I accept it and ensure I buy responsibly reared/killed meat. I am more than aware of the barbaric nature of the whole process, but I do not take great pleasure in it. Anyone who gathers around to enjoy watching someone kill something is sick in the head, IMO.

Sorry, but it's easy to critisize when you don't understand.

I understand fully.

I tend to agree with don simon despite really enjoying the bull jump the railings. Where do you stop? Should we ban rugby for the dirty eye gougers?

[i]findo_gask - Member[/i]
Surely you owe it to your species to put human life above much else?

why?

Sorry, but it's easy to critisize when you don't understand.

Can you just elucidate what I need to "understand" about it don? I "understand" that it's cruel and barbaric.

In fairness fella...

art

..my big fat hairy arse!

Surely you owe it to your species to put human life above much else?

Never really understood this logic. My emotional mind says, "yes" I'm biased towards my species. Yet, all rationality tells me there's no real reason to put human life above all else.

Can anyone explain why humans are more important, ideally without referring to religious texts?

I tend to agree with don simon despite really enjoying the bull jump the railings. Where do you stop? Should we ban rugby for the dirty eye gougers?

Pointless analogy, Rugby is a sport where all involved are participating out of choice. And you should ban the eye gougers.

From the website of a well known charity...

[i]From the moment the bull enters the ring, he is destined to die. His death will be slow and painful, and the last moments of his life will be full of terror and confusion as he hears the sounds of a jeering crowd. For the bull, bullfighting is no “competition”. It is simply slaughter for human entertainment.[/i]

Sorry, but it's easy to critisize when you don't understand.

People taking enjoyment from the torture and slow death of a terrified animal.

There's nothing else to understand, sorry.

This wasn't a bull fight. The animal lived, and it wasn't involved in any matador style stuff in the first place.

Not advocating bull fighting, but just so you lot have got the facts, this was more akin to the pamplona bull run than a traditional fight.

Go bull.

are you reading the same links as the rest of us pook?

Peyote: perhaps beacuse it's the ability to rationalise on that level that makes us unique.

You might subscribe to the "virus with shoes" view of humanity but hey - you're part of the gang!

Bullfighting is amoral at best but cheapening human life is downright immoral. This response doesn't have to be logical... if nothing else it's purely evolutionary.

A bull is a glorious and noble thing - but it doesn't give a **** about you, me, or even another bull.

deadlydarcy - not sure of your point? Certain animal welfare charities* are responsible for some of the most emotionally backward, sentimental, unfounded claptrap you will ever hear. *Not all of them, not all the time.

A bull is a glorious and noble thing - but it doesn't give a **** about you, me, or even another bull.

And that gives us the right to treat it so badly for our own enjoyment...how?

I'm not cheapening the lives of the humans who got gored. They did that themselves when they (no doubt) paid to see a "glorious and noble" sentient being being treated with such callous barbarity.

In the fact that if you keep rooting for the bull once it's gored a human and has him unconscious and bleeding on the sand... then there is something seriously wrong with your sense of human compassion.

But surely thats the point? Its dangerous and the heroic chappy on the ground is proving his manliness by laughing in the face of danger. I think its incumbent on all bull fighting officiandos to rigourously defend the bulls right to stick one up the odd matadors arris so as to preserve this age old and honoured art form in the correct social context. Or to put it another way hurrah for the bull

Really? Why not shoot the ****ers then?

Quick thoughts that have always bothered me in the pro-fox hunting pest control argument....
1) How do foxes manage to break into factory farms... I'm out there with Darwin, but have they managed to evolve into picking locks now?? The little perishers eh??

2) When I go out riding the biggest single pest I see are rabbits, now I might be wrong, but don't foxes predate on rabbits? If so surely it would make more farming sense to protect or in fact encourage the proliferation of the fox?

What Pook said, it wasnt a bullfight.

It was a [url=

recortadores[/url]:bull dodging. They dont usually kill the bull in this type of event, more often than not the bulls are bigger stars than the muppet avoiding them.
I'm not advocating anything that happens in a bullring, but besides corridas there are so many variants where the animal isnt physically harmed. Down here they even have a kids version called toro piscine, which is generally played by drunk teenagers.

Quick thoughts that have always bothered me in the pro-fox hunting pest control argument....

A bull is a glorious and noble thing - but it doesn't give a **** about you, me, or even another bull.

really, how did you come to that conclusion?
your statement confuses me lots, seems you think its glorious and noble and thats your view, but in assuming the views of the bull, you really are overplaying your part in the whole thing.

I think its incumbent on all bull fighting officiandos to rigourously defend the bulls right to stick one up the odd matadors arris

Great writing. And absolutely true. However, if you want it to actually kill a man then you're more twisted than is probably healthy. In the same way that everyone secretly likes F1 for the crashes - but if you're watching it to see people die, you have crossed the line into psychopathy.

And that gives us the right to treat it so badly for our own enjoyment

"right" is not part of my argument. And I don't really even know if a bullfight can even be 'enjoyed' as such. At best, perhaps it could be characterised as 'thought provoking'.

in assuming the views of the bull, you really are overplaying your part in the whole thing

Absolutely true. I have strayed dangerously close there to the sort of hollow rhetoric employed by some misguided animal rights campaigners. My apologies.

Peyote: perhaps beacuse it's the ability to rationalise on that level that makes us unique.

You might subscribe to the "virus with shoes" view of humanity but hey - you're part of the gang!

Can we be certain that we're the only species that can rationalise? It's putting a lot of faith in our current knowledge of "life" if we are. I'm not comfortable with assuming this anyway. I like the "virus with shoes" view of humanity!

Bullfighting is amoral at best but cheapening human life is downright immoral. This response doesn't have to be logical... if nothing else it's purely evolutionary.

Doesn't this go against what you say earlier about us being able to rationalise? Surely, if we're so different from other life, we should be utilising rationality and logic wherever possible. Not just conforming to the baser instincts of emotion and speciesim (is that a word?!)?

Evolutionary speaking we've long since departed from this route. We've created our own version of evolution so again, logic and rationality should be teaching us that actually, treating all life as equal, is to ur advantage?

A bull is a glorious and noble thing - but it doesn't give a **** about you, me, or even another bull.

The same argument can be applied to humans...

If you're speaking from an unexperienced and uneducated (about the subject in hand) point of view your opinion is being proclaimed from a point of ignorance and no doubt based on sentimentality. I would suggest before commenting on Bull Fighting you learn a little about it.

Read: Death in the afternoon by Ernest Hemmingway
Visit: Las Ventas in Madrid

then and only then should you put forward a valid argument. Be it for or against.

in the meantime keep buying meat from a supermarket.

If you're speaking from an unexperienced and uneducated (about the subject in hand) point of view your opinion is being proclaimed from a point of ignorance and no doubt based on sentimentality

That's a bit of an assumption isn't it?! One can surely express an opinion about something while remaining objective, neutral, open to changing their mind and aware of their ignorance about a subject can't they?

I hope so anyway, 'cos that's the way I've been living my life for the past few years!

I went to a fiesta in a spanish village where the highlight was chasing a bull through the streets with flaming torches strapped to its horns. My first thought was how terrified the bull must be, but it wasn't, just f*cking mad and very keen to get even. I ended up admiring the bull a lot, not so much the local village heros, who were falling over themselves to get out of its way as soon as it glanced in their direction. Fighting bulls are awesome. Just give it a fighting chance...

The same argument can be applied to humans

Almost, but not quite. For example, I know I wouldn't like to see a human be killed by a bull. 😉

The rational debate could go right down the spiral until we're talking Descartes' "cogito ergo..." stuff - but let's just agree that we'll never know exactly how thoughtful a bull is. To that extent, we cannot really emphathise with it on a meaningful level.

What we can be a wee bit more sure of its that our fellow humans can and will think about things to varying extents. But we're still made of the same basic building blocks as other animals and are still possessed of instincts and emotions which run deeper than the conscious mind.

Sometimes it takes something quite shocking to remind us that we are not as special as we think we are. Perhaps a life and death spectacle like a bullfight?

Read: Death in the afternoon by Ernest Hemmingway

Visit: Las Ventas in Madrid

But why? I don't need to read about or view a sport which is obviously cruel, barbaric and should have been consigned to the history books years ago.

From wiki:
Bullfighting [b][i]guide[/i][/b] [i]The Bulletpoint Bullfight[/i] warns that bullfighting is "not for the squeamish," advising spectators to [b]"be prepared for blood."[/b] The guide details prolonged and profuse bleeding caused by horse-mounted lancers, [b]the charging by the bull of a blindfolded, armored horse who is "sometimes doped up, and unaware of the proximity of the bull"[/b], the placing of barbed darts by banderilleros, followed by the matador's fatal sword thrust. The guide stresses that these procedures are a normal part of bullfighting and that [b]death is rarely instantaneous[/b]. The guide further warns those attending bullfights to [b]"Be prepared to witness various failed attempts at killing the animal before it lies down."[/b]

Jeebus, how anyone can honestly defend this...

Can anyone explain why humans are more important

Because they pay tax?

SOOBalias - Member
are you reading the same links as the rest of us pook?

yes - and the bull was killed for the goring of people in the crowd, not as part of the spectacle.
Like I say, i don't condone bull fighting, but this bull wasn't in a bull fight, nor was it going to be killed.

Almost, but not quite. For example, I know I wouldn't like to see a human be killed by a bull.

I don't think I want to see either fight or die if that's okay! I'm not sure bulls really want to see either situation for that matter!

The rational debate could go right down the spiral until we're talking Descartes' "cogito ergo..." stuff - but let's just agree that we'll never know exactly how thoughtful a bull is. To that extent, we cannot really emphathise with it on a meaningful level. What we can be a wee bit more sure of its that our fellow humans can and will think about things to varying extents.

So, we can empathise more with the humans than we can with the bulls. Still not convinced it's a valid argument for saying their lives are worth less than ours.

But we're still made of the same basic building blocks as other animals and are still possessed of instincts and emotions which run deeper than the conscious mind.

So surely we're not so far removed from the bull after all, and should maybe be viewing both (potential) deaths equally abhorently/apathetically? Or is this a debating point against the idea that we should be appealing more to our animal instincts rather than our rational minds. To be honest, I'm struggling to try to maintain both points of view, but I think I understand what you're getting at, even if I don't subscribe to the same opinion!

Sometimes it takes something quite shocking to remind us that we are not as special as we think we are. Perhaps a life and death spectacle like a bullfight?

I think this is what I was aiming at! If we're not as special as we think we are, our lives aren't necessarily as important as we think they are. Shouldn't we therefore treat other life a bit more akin to the way we treat our own?

This is all a bit heavy for a Thursday afternoon!

DeadlyDarcy - you seem content taking on board only the half of the argument that confirms your own prejudices. Not a very open minded outlook.

misogynistic, alcoholic, boorish tw4t

All true. Hell of a writer though.

Oh I see now, you're surely just trolling aren't you?

Almost, but not quite. For example, I know I wouldn't like to see a human be killed by a bull.

I'd not even like to see a matador killed by a bull, but I'd kinda be thinking...you sort of asked for it mate.

The rational debate could go right down the spiral until we're talking Descartes' "cogito ergo..." stuff - but let's just agree that we'll never know exactly how thoughtful a bull is. To that extent, we cannot really emphathise with it on a meaningful level.

It doesn't need to go down that level at all. Picture yourself for a second, drugged and injured, so that your superior powers of intellectual reasoning have been dulled down to your basic instincts, in a circle of men who are just popping in and out every so often, kicking you in the face, stabbing you, not quite finishing you off. How do you think you'll feel. You'll feel primal instincts...fear, confusion, pain. I'll have a tenner with you that a bull can feel those very same things. Saying "we don't really know how the bull feels" is not any kind of argument for killing it in the manner of a bullfight. It's not a fair point of reasoning.

But we're still made of the same basic building blocks as other animals and are still possessed of instincts and emotions which run deeper than the conscious mind.

Refer to my last paragraph.

Sometimes it takes something quite shocking to remind us that we are not as special as we think we are. Perhaps a life and death spectacle like a bullfight?

Life and death spectacle? You're taking the mick here aren't you? Life for the matador and his coward minions and inevitable death for the bull. Unless, of course, something goes wrong in the stage management of the slaughter. Jesus, I'd rather watch WWF...at least the outcome is kept secret from the audience until the referee's count to three.

DeadlyDarcy - you seem content taking on board only the half of the argument that confirms your own prejudices. Not a very open minded outlook.

No actually, I was once quite blase about the whole subject...having spent most Summers as a child on a beef farm in Ireland...it did give me quite a neutral view on how we treat animals. I'd prefer to think I'm a bit more enlightened as I approach middle age. Am I prejudiced against people who treat animals cruelly for their own enjoyment and then call it "art"? I sure as hell am.

Great writing. And absolutely true. However, if you want it to actually kill a man then you're more twisted than is probably healthy. In the same way that everyone secretly likes F1 for the crashes - but if you're watching it to see people die, you have crossed the line into psychopathy.

To be honest what I want isn't repeatable on here.... and it does go on for quite a while about ...ahem ..... ladies bits....however, whatever else it doesn't actually include bull fighting at all. However, I am in the opinion that if one chooses a punch up with a very large beast as a way of proving ones virility it does one no credit to a) have help, and b) avoid the potential negative conclusion, it simply shows one to be a bit of a cock. So I'm in favour of the bull having back-up from its mates too, and a no holds barred approach to it all. i.e .matador can kill bull, bull can kill matador. Proper man stuff.... me, I'm a wimp and I'll be in the stands with a sangria discussing what I really want with the senioritas........

Could I just add that I was thinking what an inspired and clear thinking gentleman you are....... well right up to the word "However" that was.

Ah, the Boggis, Bunce and Bean lobby I see....

Is it only me that’s thinking WTF ????

Still not convinced it's a valid argument for saying their lives are worth less than ours

No. But in witnessing that split second where a bull takes the upper hand, you just might change your mind.

should maybe be viewing both (potential) deaths equally abhorently

Yup - exactly. But as above, when the tables turn, perhaps the feeling starts to emerge that some animals might be more equal than others (to paraphrase another well known Spanophile).

Lets just say that viewed with the right mix of cynisism and respect it encourages mindfulness and introspection. Not altogether without merit.

cba with the more recent responses.

ta, pook, the link to the bbc site was unclear about the reason the bull was in the bullring.

but let's just agree that we'll never know exactly how thoughtful a bull is. To that extent, we cannot really emphathise with it on a meaningful level.

Personally I don't see why I can't empathise with something even if I don't know exactly how thoughtful it is.

Sometimes it takes something quite shocking to remind us that we are not as special as we think we are. Perhaps a life and death spectacle like a bullfight?

Why do you think you're special? I'd never assume that, and certainly don't need a life and death spectacle to remind me that really I'm just a lump of flesh and bones.

Lets just say that viewed with the right mix of cynisism and respect it encourages mindfulness and introspection. Not altogether without merit.

I just don't see the merit of which you speak. If you need to watch things like that to be mindful and introspective you're already at a level I'd consider sub-human.

. In the same way that everyone secretly likes F1 for the crashes - but if you're watching it to see people die, you have crossed the line into psychopathy.

I like the crashes, yes, because I know the human is relatively safe inside and it's only cash being thrown down the drain. If I thought people or animals would be injured without doubt during the crash I'd not watch it wanting people to crash, I'd watch it for the racing action.

Picture yourself for a second, drugged and injured, so that your superior powers of intellectual reasoning have been dulled down to your basic instincts, in a circle of men who are just popping in and out every so often, kicking you in the face, stabbing you, not quite finishing you off. How do you think you'll feel. You'll feel primal instincts...fear, confusion, pain. I'll have a tenner with you that a bull can feel those very same things. Saying "we don't really know how the bull feels" is not any kind of argument for killing it in the manner of a bullfight. It's not a fair point of reasoning.

If we lived in a World with zero chance of man inflicting that sort of inhumanity upon fellow man then it would indeed be super-****'d-up. We don't. People are cruel. Maybe it's so shocking that it makes a few people in the audience think about how to live their lives better - or about the things that they value, or about how lucky they are just to be alive.

I've never said it's 'right'. It happens. There are two sides to the argument.

you're already at a level I'd consider sub-human

That's OK though - because you love all the wonders of creation as much as you love yourself, right?

Edit: CK - just so we're clear, 'creation' is only a figure of speech.

That's OK though - because you love all the wonders of creation as much as you love yourself, right?

I don't consider them creation, but I try my best to be fair and caring for them, yes. And yes, it does sadden me to see insects hit my windscreen.

No. But in witnessing that split second where a bull takes the upper hand, you just might change your mind.

I hope not, but never having experienced/witnessed it I cannot be sure I wouldn't.

Yup - exactly. But as above, when the tables turn, perhaps the feeling starts to emerge that some animals might be more equal than others (to paraphrase another well known Spanophile).

I can well believe this. It's a shame that such situations arise at all, particularly when they are deliberately manufactured.

Lets just say that viewed with the right mix of cynisism and respect it encourages mindfulness and introspection. Not altogether without merit.

I try to take the view that most of these kind of events have merit of one form or another, be it from a sociological, political or even ethical/moral point of view. Unfortunately when weighed up against the pain, distress, confusion etc... that I imagine the animals go through, not to mention the degradation of the humans involved, the cost/benefit analysis is vastly overweighted on the cost side of things, the benefits being minimal.

coffeeking - Member

[i]Yeah - secrety cheer for the bull... up until the point that a human gets tossed like a salad or gored in the nethers. There'd need to be something wrong with you to enjoy that.[/i]

Not at all, I'd hope anyone enjoying watching an animal getting killed for fun would accept that I can enjoy watching the bull get its own back.

Besides, bulls have gored men, whether during a bullfight or not, for centuries.

Ah, the Boggis, Bunce and Bean lobby I see....

Is it only me that’s thinking WTF ????

You dont know your Roald Dahl then, Berm bandit (fantastic Mr Fox) 😆

If you're speaking from an unexperienced and uneducated (about the subject in hand) point of view your opinion is being proclaimed from a point of ignorance and no doubt based on sentimentality. I would suggest before commenting on Bull Fighting you learn a little about it.

Read: Death in the afternoon by Ernest Hemmingway
Visit: Las Ventas in Madrid

then and only then should you put forward a valid argument. Be it for or against.

in the meantime keep buying meat from a supermarket.

+1

I was talking to a Spaniard about the English revulsion to bull fighting. His answer was that they will stop killing their bulls when we stop murdering our children.

I went to a runnng of bulls in a small town in southern France. It struck me as a much healthier (for society if not the bulls) way of young men proving their virilty and prowess than the methods employed by the average Englishman on a night out.

As far as I'm concerened this a cultural thing that has got nothing to do with us and we'd be respectful to keep our noses out.

His answer was that they will stop killing their bulls when we stop murdering our children.

presumably at that point you told him he was an uneducated ****t?

why would i have done that ?

Because it would be factually correct?

because he made a very dumb statement, attempting to link the organised and keenly observed taunting, then slaughter of an animal, with criminal and rare deviant behavior in the UK. with the added suggestion that Spanish kids never get murdered? or was he suggesting that they're actually comparable - bull fighting = child murder? either way he's a retard

Because it would be factually correct?

he had a degree so actually it wouldn't have been

The point he was alluding to was that Spanish culture is far more centred on caring for and respecting children than English culture. A point which after travelling with my children in Spain, I wholeheartedly agree with. His point being that we have our own issues to deal with before sorting theirs out.

I went running with the bulls in a fiesta last weekend - great fun and just a little scary!

A liquid breakfast helped soothe the nerves.

Erm, in the context of his knowledge of British cultural practices, he would be uneducated.

You see, we don't actually murder our children as part of a national sport.

As far as I'm concerened this a cultural thing that has got nothing to do with us and we'd be respectful to keep our noses out.

So we should keep our noses out of anything that we find unpleasant about other people's cultures? Such as the treatment of women in places like Iran, Saudi and Afghanistan etc? Should we bollocks. Every person has the right to speak out against something they find abhorrent.

I love Spain, the people and most aspects of it's culture. However, I find bullfighting repugnant and morally bankrupt. Time it was abolished.

Edit - actually I just thought better of that comment. 'Scuse me.

I think this is one of those areas where people have very clearly defined views and one camp is not goingto convince the other to change their mind. I respect people who disagree with the sport, yes, I see it as a sport and not an art. It is often an easy way for the less educated to make money (Jesulin), pretty much like footballers. There is something quite powerful when the bull is killed first time, something quite horrible when it takes ages. There is something quite frghtening seeing a fighting bull up close and equally exciting. Whether I agree or disagree with bullfighting, I have a certain respect for the toreros, and I respect the right for the tradition.

Does the bull suffer during the corrida, well ultimately, yes? Do you suffer when you cut yourself while riding and full of adrenaline? Do bulls have adrenaline??

I went running with the bulls in a fiesta last weekend - great fun and just a little scary!

A liquid breakfast helped soothe the nerves.

A combination of two of the worst aspects of Spanish and British culture there for you. Weren't you the brave guy 🙂

His point being that we have our own issues to deal with before sorting theirs out.

What a crap justification for barbarity in this day and age. I too recommend you tell him he's an uneducated **** the next time you see him.

It is often an easy way for the less educated to make money

Bit like dogfighting in the parks here...

Erm, in the context of his knowledge of British cultural practices, he would be uneducated.

You see, we don't actually murder our children as part of a national sport.

LOL excellent ! ...........10/10 😀

What a crap justification for barbarity in this day and age. I too recommend you tell him he's an uneducated **** the next time you see him.

Because calling someone an uneducated **** to their face would be a perfectlty civilised thing to do in this day and age wouldn't it ?

Although in your defence, I somehow doubt that it's something you do on a regular basis.

Because calling someone an uneducated **** to their face would be a perfectlty civilised thing to do in this day and age wouldn't it ?

It would be a lot more civilised than what he said to you.

Although in your defence, I somehow doubt that it's something you do on a regular basis.

🙂 @ the personal stuff again. 🙄

I dunno, was he a big fella?

Legally make money then! 😀

Bit like dogfighting in the parks here...

As I said I respect the fact that you don't like, neither have I said whether I agree or not. But I might spend a bit of time this summer with a photo assignment of the corridas and try to learn a bit more.
😉

I was of course being a tad facetious there don 😉

the stadium in madrid is bloody impressive though

Because calling someone an uneducated **** to their face would be a perfectlty civilised thing to do in this day and age wouldn't it ?

I would not have any problem whatsoever in calling someone who accused the English of murdering their children something [i]a lot less civilised[/i] than "you uneducated ****t"

I take it you would trailmonkey ?

I take it you would trailmonkey ?

well i didn't, so no.

i agreed with the point he was making. we treat our kids poorly in comparison to them. we should put our own house in order before dictating what is moral/immoral to the spanish.

not a ****

I was of course being a tad facetious there don

😆 tired dude. 😆