I'd eat a dog, definitely.
Which suggests that you are not entirely in step with mainstream thinking.
Which suggests that you are not entirely in step with mainstream thinking.
LOL. No, I guess that would be true. I'd eat Dolphin too, love to in fact. The mainstream seem to really like McDonalds so erm.. yeah.
Would you use the rat poison Mr Lynch?
No, it makes the rats inedible.
Warfarin is nasty stuff, and inflicts unnecessary suffering on the rats. It's used by local authorities and pest control firms because it is cheap.
I saw on the news a story about some scumbag who tried to smuggle fertilised Peregrine Falcon eggs from the UK to Dubai. So that some rich ****s could have Peregrines for their falconry 'sport'. Should we keep our noses out of others' cultures? Like **** we should. Cause irreparable damage to our own wildlife and ecology, so some selfish ****s can play rich men's games?
You see this is the thing that gets me, and do bear in mind that I am not involved in any bloodsports and have no desire to be, it seems to me that the stuff that people get excited about is not the massive cruelty and injustice in our own widespread systematic abuse of animals. It is when someone seems to be enjoying it too much.
We all have different preferences but should the preferences of the majority be allowed to dictate the behaviour of the few. What about when it is 51% against 49%? Why should people who like hunting have to pay taxes to enforce their own subjugation? As long as people are not actively encroaching on the rights of another person, who the hell are we to say how they should behave?
As long as people are not actively encroaching on the rights of another person, who the hell are we to say how they should behave?
Our laws regarding how we treat other human beans and animals tend to eventually catch up with the moral zeitgeist of the times. Once upon a time this country was full of insanely cruel bloodsports. The moral zeitgeist dictated that these activities were no longer acceptable in a "civilised" society. The laws then became changed. I'd hazard that if 49% of the population had been just crazy about fox-hunting it (ie the type with dogs) wouldn't be illegal.
Neanderthals who don't agree end up having to tow the line whether they like it or not.
It was good to see the tables turned. I was cheering the bull all the way. No sympathy for those people sat "safely" behind a fence, taking pleasure in the slow death of an animal.
Warfarin is nasty stuff, and inflicts unnecessary suffering on the rats. It's used by local authorities and pest control firms because it is cheap.
So what's the "non-cheap" alternative then ?
I as far as I can figure out Warfarin is used because it is the most practical and effective way to kill rats which pose life-threatening health risks to humans.
Of course there is always the risk that an ageing rat with cardiovascular disease is given a new lease of life after taking the Warfarin.
Quite how this is in anyway connected with bulls being killed as slowly as possible purely for entertainment purposes, has gone completely over my head though.
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I was cheering the bull on for this one as well.
I'd have no problem with fox hunting if it was one toff using only his teeth vs one fox.
I have thought about humane badger baiting as well, where the badger is ridiculed with such phrases as
"what's that? is it a skunk?"
"call yourself a badger?"
"you're not a tough as a honey badger are you, you stripy little ****"
the badger is then allowed to bite the protagonist with the most cutting insult
I was cheering the bull all the way. No sympathy for those people sat "safely" behind a fence, taking pleasure in the slow death of an animal.
I haven't read all of this thread, but has no one pointed out that the incident in Tafalla Spain wasn't a bullfight ?
The only reason the bull was put down was because he went on the rampage, had he not, he would have lived.
My comments are purely aimed at bullfights. I'm not much bothered with Course Landaise and the likes.
The point was that most people are perfectly happy to be cruel to an animal if it suits their needs but are very quick to jump on the cruelty bandwagon when someone seems to be enjoying it too much.
I also think that we have started to forget about liberty, what happens when mountain bikes are restricted to trail centres after the govt is lobbied by influential red socks?
I think bull fighting is uneccesary but I am very much against paying to enforce other people to not do it. You wouldn't believe what they get up to with dogs in Nigeria. Frankly though, it is not my problem. Bullfighting isn't yours.
....quick to jump on the cruelty bandwagon when someone seems to be enjoying it too much.
Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
Most people have a problem with animals being killed very slowly purely for enjoyment.
The problem with bullfighting is not that it's cruel to animals; rather that it only exists to allow people to ENJOY the animal cruelty.
That's why it's bad.
Of course, it's not my problem, but there you go. Still bad. Just one more bit of nastiness in the world about which I can do nothing.
So what's the "non-cheap" alternative then ?
Shoot them. Or use Humane traps.
Of course, it's not my problem, but there you go. Still bad. Just one more bit of nastiness in the world about which I can do nothing.
just love your fellow man a bit more and spread the good vibes to counteract the negative people with the bad ones.
as bill and ted once said "just be excellent to each other"
I know the original link wasn't about Bullfighting ernie. But the thread took that direction anyway.
When a civilised country like Spain shares the EU with me, I'll keep on at them about bullfighting. I'll decide whether it's my problem or not. In any case, there is a growing movement against bullfighting in Spain. Already banned in the Canaries and Catalonia...eventually the rest of them will see sense.
Shoot them. Or use Humane traps.
Ah, right, as I suspected..........there isn't any practical or effective alternatives.
Practical and effective in terms of people, but not the environment.
You see why you're so grumpy and negative? It's because of all the lead and pesticides in the ecosystem. You'd be happier if they weren't.
Mind you, you're probably happiest being a grumpy bastard anyway.
I am just not very down with the whole banning of things without a really good reason. For some people watching animals die constitutes a really good time. That seems to disgust you but for me that is not a good enough reason to tell other people that they are not allowed to do it. Who here voted to ban fox hunting? Oh yeah, you couldn't...
Yeah, but you can attempt to sabotage hunts. Or kill fox hunting people.
Effective [i]and[/i] practical.
Who here voted to ban fox hunting? Oh yeah, you couldn't...
Well, you can meet you local MP, who would have the vote in Parliament, and express your views. You could join a political party and have some influence. No-one's stopping you do that.
IE a campaign of bombing bullrings would have a significant effect I'd imagine. Close them down, no bullfighting. Not condoning terrorism, but if people feel strongly enough about something, then they do actually have a fair amount of power.
Yeah, but you can attempt to sabotage hunts. Or kill fox hunting people.Effective and practical.
Now we're talking. And how many actual hunts sabs were there? Far fewer than there were hunters.
Yeah, but you can attempt to sabotage hunts. Or kill fox hunting people.
agree with hunt sabotage, murder of an ape to save a canid seems a bit hypocritical though it's a bit like pro lifers murdering abortion clinic workers
Practical and effective in terms of people, but not the environment.
😕 Eh ? WTF you talking about Goblinsafety ?
What do you want? A referendum on everything? I'm not up for banning everything either, but we live in a democracy - where the rights of minorities to do as they please unless what they please disgusts the vast majority. In which case, they'll be forced to stop...eventually.
There are plenty of sports which exploit animals for humans' enjoyment which I'd gladly see ended tomorrow but I'm not revulsed by them to the level that I am by bullfighting. It's not like it's just a few liberal leftie nutters who oppose bullfighting.
Having been to Ipsos Mori to find backup for my argument I realise that I am very much in the minority. That is not to say that the majority is neccesarily right. 😉
And how many actual hunts sabs were there? Far fewer than there were hunters.
Well I don't know actual figures tbh. And neither do you, I suspect.
Oh, and please don't try and ban fishing, my father is a mad fisherman and he would be heartbroken.
I realise that I am very much in the minority.
I've been trying to tell you that, but you just ignored me.
Ernie:
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10784611 ]Fact is an increasing number of people in Spain oppose bullfighting. [/url] It's just that it's only more recently the anti-bullfighting lobby has become politically vociferous. Modern Spain knows it must shed aspects of it's culture which are distasteful and offensive to other members of the global community.
Some people in the North of England still insist on using outside toilets. Thanks to pressure from people throughout the UK, this barbaric practice has been all but irradicated.
Well I don't know actual figures tbh. And neither do you, I suspect.
My dad was in with that lot in the minehead area, when the hunt was on, you would get dozens of 4x4 vehicles, blocking up the local laybys watching the hunt, people on foot, several on horses, dog handlers, caterers, drivers. There would have had to be bus-loads of sabs to outnumber them.
I've been trying to tell you that, but you just ignored me.
I didn't ignore, I just disregarded 😉
Elfinsafety - MemberErnie:
http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/ratpoison_tcm6-16130.pdf
😕 [i]Yeah[/i], so sensible precautions should be taken............what's your point ?
You want to kit yourself out and walk through the sewers shooting rats ?
My dad was in with that lot in the minehead area, when the hunt was on, you would get dozens of 4x4 vehicles, blocking up the local laybys watching the hunt, people on foot, several on horses, dog handlers, caterers, drivers. There would have had to be bus-loads of sabs to outnumber them.
Why doesn't your dad shoot rats Torminalis ? He could take Elfinstardust with him.
You want to kit yourself out and walk through the sewers shooting rats ?
Don't be giving him ideas.
My dad was in with that lot in the minehead area, when the hunt was on, you would get dozens of 4x4 vehicles, blocking up the local laybys watching the hunt, people on foot, several on horses, dog handlers, caterers, drivers. There would have had to be bus-loads of sabs to outnumber them.
By contrast I've been told of saboteurs/protesters outnumbering those involved in the hunt itself, on several occasions. As I said, neither of us know the real figures. Truth is, the vast majority of people in the UK oppose fox hunting. Probably 'cos most of us aren't bloodthirsty inhumane ****s.
You want to kit yourself out and walk through the sewers shooting rats ?
No, but It'd be fun to trap loads of live rats, then release them into the homes of fox hunters. 😀
What about 'Fox Hunter hunting'? Chase ****s in red jackets through an unforgiving urban environment, to the point of exhaustion, then letting a pack of pitbulls tear them to pieces?
I'm not actually serious. I don't beleive in any unnecessary suffing to any creature. Besides, most of the hunting set would have a heart attack if they were suddenly placed on a council estate anyway! 😀
Chasing trout, on horseback, with a shotgun?
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happen in this country![/url]
Of course , he is a johnny foreigner!
just love your fellow man a bit more and spread the good vibes to counteract the negative people with the bad ones
I try.. I try to educate STW in the ways of being excellent to each other!
😳up until the point that a human gets tossed like a salad or gored in the nethers. There'd need to be something wrong with you to enjoy that.
I love it when the bull gets em. Best bit IMO. Disgusting "sport".
(pedant)Oh and fred, they use beagles which are quite a long stretch from being pit bulls(/pedant).
I hear your excellent Molgrips and raise yout an awesome to the power of surf mat.
Hunting for pleasure suggests too me that people like killing things and this worries me.
Hunting for things you kill and eat suggests you are stil in touch with your caveman roots - not sure whether this is good or bad but certainly not for me and not something I would ban.
Watching an animal be kiled for sport/ entertainment is just barbaric. I note the audience does not wish to share in an equal risk of death with the prey.
they use beagles
[pedant]Don't they use foxhounds mate? I thought beagles were for beagling 🙂 [/pedant]
My father-in-law hunts (not very well) in the shape of a couple of days a year in deer season. I was initially against this idea, then I realised that if you are going to eat meat (as I do) then there is no better or more ethical way to do it than killing your own wild food. However the important point to remember is that this is not why he does it. They can afford supermarket food and animal welfare is not at the front of most Americans' minds as they shop. He does it because he enjoys it - so that puts it back in morally dubious territory I reckon. He's undoubtedly doing a service by being a predator for the deer which as a prey species need their numbers keeping down (since the ancestors of the same hunters shot all the wolves for sport 🙄 ) but again that's not the real reason he does it.
Hunting for pleasure suggests too me that people like killing things and this worries me.
Now I've never fox hunted, but I have done a bit of shooting and found it fun. Hunting is fun no doubt there's a serious evolutionary imperative for the hunting to be fun.
howitzer hunting is the way forward.
Shooting is one thing, I love that. Shooting at something living so you can pat yourself on the back when it dies is something else.
