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Vickery I thought was very lucky to tour but apparently played well in the game I didnt see. Murray is the better prop IMO, Vickery can cover both sides from the bench though which is useful. Gethin Jenkins has been nothing but awsome all season and I'd say is streets ahead of Sheridan. As for Hooker I am impressd with Mears, but someone does need to tell him he's only a little fella and to leave the carrying to those a little bigger. Ford was not great the other day and Rees is pure utter shite in the best tradition of shite welsh hookers of recent years. Adam Jones is my favourite rugby player I love him but he's not a test lion, wont let anyone down though.
Powell is stupid stupid stupid
He's not known as Mongo on a certain welsh rugbysite for no reason.
Murray / vickery - I thought that Vickery had a really good game and Murrau while immense in the scrums was not what I thought in the loose. Maybe I am trying to be more than fair as a Scots fan
Still - I am more than happy to agree with you guys - I was a back the little bit I played.
I really want Ford to grab the place from Mears - but again I thought Mears had a great game and Ford not quite what I hoped from him.
I also wish the lions had taken Dickinson - the fastest prop in the world Should be more Scots forwards in the Lions I thought Strockosch (sp) was particularly unlucky and I am a Huge Jason White fan.
Adam Jones is my favourite rugby player I love him but he's not a test lion, wont let anyone down though.
Did you ever see that superb interview he did, cup of tea in hand, when he sounded like he was away with the fairies? Can't remember where it was!
Great player, and as you say, not one to let anyone down.
I think Strokosh picked up an injury, looks good though. Jason White was absolutely robbed by that bell end Woodward in 2005 but is getting on abit these days.
Donncha O'Callaghan gives a good interview, told a fella once he had a pet lobster called Mr Pinchy or something, managed to keep a straight face throughout.
Vicks is too prone to giving penalties away, I agree that he was lucky to get a Lions place. AJ was unlucky to hit poor form in the run up to the tour, a shame as we could use a strong 8.
TJ, I'm afraid that with the poor Scots showing in the 6N, they were never likely to make a massive contribution to the Lions team, similar for England even though they finished 2nd. jenkins has come on leaps in the last couple of years but streets ahead of Sheri? Nope.
One thing I do agree with AA on, I don't think we stand much of a chance against SA in the tests.
Backhander - waht has Sheridan ever done other than scrumming well against a poor aus side? I think he has been found out now and is easily nullified by anyone who has good technique. He is not fit to lace Jenkins boots nor Murray nor vickery nor Jones - the bottom of the lions props
jenkins has come on leaps in the last couple of years but streets ahead of Sheri? Nope.
Bollocks he's been streets ahead of Sheridan for ages and was during the last Lions tour he's the best Welsh player of his generation, who has often been given shit by the poorly informed for his scrumaging when he has moved across to tighthead due to Adam Jones inability to last a game. To use your criteria Gethin = 2 grandslams Sheridan = **** all
AJ was unlucky to hit poor form in the run up to the tour, a shame as we could use a strong 8.
Eh me thinks you've got your Jones all muddled. Ryan Jones the 8 (who played 6 all season) was knocked out cold from the kick off against USA yesterday. Jonathan Davis scored twice though!!!
Sheridan has a world cup finalists medal.
I know what I'd rather have (you can poke the 6N)
A world cup losers medal you mean?
Now now chaps - rugby nationalism / tribalism is in abeyance for the next few weeks.
We are all Lions now.
Losers go out in the group stages mate.
OI! No petty nationalism for another few weeks please.
Naka Drotske reckons that Sheridan is one of the best scrummagers he's seen after Saturday's game.
Several of the players and coaches have made comments about the standards of Barnes' refereeing as well. (So it wasn't just me who thought he was awful?)
CFH was that the interview where Jones said they needed to eat more pies?
I have been looking at the refs for the tests I had never heard of the guy whos doing the 1st test Bryce Lawrence so I googled him. Oh dear it seems he has a very Southern Hemisphere view on the rules and absolutely adores his whistle.
Naka Drotske reckons that Sheridan is one of the best scrummagers he's seen after Saturday's game
He's lying then.
Losers go out in the group stages mate.
True, but they also loose in the final. Gethin has 2 grandslams Sheridan nothing, it was your moronic assesment that Worsley must be good he's a world cup winner (despite hardly playing) that led me to point this out. Gethin is simply the better of the two. How many times was Sheridan pinged int he 6 nations for not binding? He always has his hand on his own leg. Gethins work rate is amazing?
Naka and I went to school at the same time. (Grey College in Bloemfontein) 🙂
There was a time when I knew about a third of the Springbok team on a personel level ( our school produced more Springboks than any other school in SA ).
[b]Oi! AA / Backhander - we are all lions now. Petty nationalism suspended for a couple of weeks.[/b] then we can go back to laughing at the English for being fat old slow and thick, the welsh for the fake tan and bad haircuts and the Irish for looking like Mr Potato head. the Scots of course have been faultless lions led by donkeys
anagallis_arvensis - MemberNaka Drotske reckons that Sheridan is one of the best scrummagers he's seen after Saturday's game
He's lying then.
I think he's being rather clever. Trying to persuade the Lions to select a donkey at 1!
Join the human race mate. While patriotism is not a bad thing, you're assesment of english players is so blinkered in the face of numerous writers, players etc, you maintain that you know better.
Are you suggesting that a players sporting achievements are nothing to do with the quality of their game?
Personally I agree with the mails assesment that the closest call in the lions team is between Jenkins and Sheridan. To suggest that Sheri is not a good prop forward is just poor judgement/lack of understanding of the game and that Wors is "shite" and defend Powell is just wrong.
I think you need to go back and read what I've said which to summarise is that Sheridan is good but Gethin is truly world class and that Worsley and Powell are both very limited and that Worsley is shit compared to what I'd want a test Lion to be (as is Powell to be honest) but Powell did his normal thing on saturday whilst Worsley was very poor. Also to suggest a guy who played against Uruguay and Samoa with a sub appearance againt SA as a great cause he's won a world cup is deluded and moronic.
As for the English players well it might have escaped your notice but England have been pretty dire since they won the worldcup and not many deserve to start for the Lions. Mears, Croft and Monye are putting hands up and Flutey could if he gets a chance. Sheridan would be a liability given the pasting the Lions are likely to face at rucks we need dynamic tight 5 players, Gethins work rate is leagues ahead of Sheridan. As for the Welsh well Byrne, Roberts, AW Jones and Gethin are putting hands up and Martyn Williams also needs another look but Wallace may provide a bit more grunt in the rucks. I think thats a fair assesment.
numerous writers, players
From the English dominated press........ Skyspurts jizz themselves silly over the premiership who's rugby is pretty poor bigging up players like Sheridan who has failed to deliver against top class opposition
Team for wed:
Lee Byrne
Shane Williams
Brian O'Driscoll
Jamie Roberts
Luke Fitzgerald
Ronan O'Gara
Mike Phillips
Gethin Jenkins
Lee Mears
Adam Jones
, Alun-Wyn Jones (
Paul O'Connell
Tom Croft
David Wallace
Jamie Heaslip
Replacements:
Matthew Rees
, Phil Vickery
, Simon Shaw
Joe Worsley
Mike Blair
Riki Flutey
, Leigh Halfpenny
Looks to me like trying out combinations still but I am very disspointed that Murray and Ford haven't got another chance even on the bench - guess they will on Saturday. Looks like Flutey will get a chance at centre and quite possibly 10
premiership who's rugby is pretty poor
Would you like to qualify that statement? Do you engage your brain before spouting?
You're tone has changed from "shite" to "limited". I have not claimed that Wors is great, but I think saying that he's a fine defensive back row is a fair assesment. He's not a game changer but solid and dependable and he was in no way very poor, whereas Powell was a liability. My point is that everyone carries their weight in winning teams. In team sports the guys on the bench are still important. You may win one medal hiding in a team, but not the amount that wors has.
I don't disagree with your thoughts on the others You'll find plenty of Welsh in my selection (more than most), which is no mean feat for a team which came 3rd in the 6N!!!(below England) I think we could see the prop duties shared between Sheri and Jenks which is fair.
We seem to be arguing exactly the same points as we were 3 or 4 weeks ago?
We seem to be arguing exactly the same points as we were 3 or 4 weeks ago?
Not far off! We should get an idea of who will be in the test team come Wednesday team announcement as then I suspect test team players will be rested ready for a run together on Saturday
Re sheridan - I have rarely seen a player who splits opinions so much. I am firmly in the "over rated" camp. I wouldn't have even taken him on the tour. He is too slow around the pitch and gives away too many penalties. I really think he is the least effective of the props on tour [i] in the all round game[/i] he is a good but not exceptional scrummager but not a match for any of the others around the park.
I think his main problem is he is muscle bound between the ears
With Sheridan for someone who weighs so much and is so strong he very rarely seems to go forward much and gets stopped to easily IMO - remember we arent talking about the world champions here they are provincial teams. Oh and I'm English btw!
He's a big lump. Can be devastating in the scrum, not much more to it.
But if what you want is a scrummager-he's your man.
If you want a more refined player as AA said, then Jenkins.
Same in the second row with Hines and AWJ.
Really depends how the saffas come out.
TJ, you think they'll try Flutey at 10?
Backhander - there is no 10 on the subs bench. My guess is he will come on in the centre early on and go to 10 for the last few minutes unless the game is very tight. Just a guess and second guessing Geech is not easy.
Sheridan - [i]can[/i] be devastating in eh scrum - perhaps but he was outplayed by Murray in the calcutta cup if my faulty memory serves me??????
I am in the Sheridan is over rated club as well, he is a very strong man but his technique has always be suspect. Gethin Jenkins is a fantastic player of that there is no doubt, his scrumaging is superb and his contribution around the park makes him worh his weight in gold. The Hair Bears are both in my opinion better than Sheridan, just the ability to last 80 minutes.
Dont start me on Worsley, as one dimensional as the BNP (mixing threads now :-))
That is a strong team for Wednesday, shit or bust for Shane Williams, apart from him and O'Gara that would be pretty much my test 15. Not sure about fitzgerald but he deserves a run in a good side on the wing. Bench looks weakish but then some players will no doubt be rested for saturday. Geech said his test 15 wouldnt play together before the first test. Well I suppose he knows how Steven Jones will play with Phillips
TJ - fair enough thanks for pointing that out. I'd missed it!
Murray is a formidable player and in my line up!
I'm still very interested as to why the prem is "pretty poor" and would like to hear the reasoning!
I'm still very interested as to why the prem is "pretty poor" and would like to hear the reasoning!
Turgid, safety first rugby, the lack of achivement compared to the recent past in the european cup shows that the standard has fallen. But skyspurts show it so it must be great and sheridan plays in it so he must be great, its a lot of hype.
My point is that everyone carries their weight in winning teams
he hardly played in the world cup
Ferris has crocked himself in training and Ryan Jones been called up, bit of a blow that, althought Jones is better than Mongo
yeh I just read that - looks like Croft should be starting for the test team then. I think tonights back row may be the starting test back row - will have to see how they go!
Ryan Jones is a great player but has been struggling for form all year, didnt do much on the Welsh tour. Real shame about Ferris.
1/2 going home too, not to be replaced.
1/2 going home too, not to be replaced.
Eh? sorry just checked BBC sport - Halfpenny.
I'm not sure about the front row for tonight being the test choice. Meers is still too wee and his line-out throwing isn't any better than the other two. If they really want to dominate the scrum (which I think They do) they will go with Jenkins-Ford-Murray for the 1st test. Beast the boks good and proper and make them think twice about playing a hooker as a test prop.
Has the Lions Captain ever been dropped from the starting XV? if O'Connells form doesn't pick up a bit I'd be going with AWJ and Hines as first choice 2nd row.
1/2p out is a blow not only because we are starting to look a bit short of real pace in the backs with Shane looking like he is out of test contention but also he is a damn fine kicker with more range than any of the 10s we have. A 50 yard kick to win the match and you have Jones or O'Gara even at altitude they are going to struggle.
Ryan Jones is a great player but has been struggling for form all year, didnt do much on the Welsh tour
He played well against canada and was knocked out from the kick off against the USA!!
"Turgid, safety first rugby, the lack of achivement compared to the recent past in the european cup shows that the standard has fallen"
Fair enough, a prem team has only managed 2 finals out of the last 3 - the Irish teams have been strong.
The welsh have been stronger in the anglo welsh cup, but it's only a minor tournament and not a priority for teams trying to win H/C and prem titles.
"we are starting to look a bit short of real pace in the backs with Shane looking like he is out of test contention"
Who's lacking pace, Bowe or Monye?
I'm looking forward to see how Jones (not another!) gets on.
Another game tonight. Wonder how good an internet feed I can get this time. Can't wait for the tests now.
"Who's lacking pace, Bowe or Monye?"
Monye from what we've seen so far.
Bowe has the gas at the moment and works well with fellow Osprey at 15, Byrne.
Moyne has impressed me. I'd like to see him tested further against better opposition but Bowe and Moyne would be my choice ATM
Quite interesting to actually see them being able to enjoy themselves on tour this time! Good to see them mixing as well (assuming you are watching the sky coverage)
Fair enough, a prem team has only managed 2 finals out of the last 3 - the Irish teams have been strong.
The welsh have been stronger in the anglo welsh cup, but it's only a minor tournament and not a priority for teams trying to win H/C and prem titles.
Given the hype you would imagine the guiness premiership would win everytime, especially as the French top14 dont seem to take it that seriously. A poorly coached Ospreys team apart none of the Welsh teams have the firepower to do that well, and the cider league is shite a really very poor level of competition.
Monye is impressive on attack but I remain to be convinced of his defence, not first up tackling so much as his tracking back and kick returning. Fitzgerald has a big opportunity tonight and the management are clearly hoping that Shane finds some form. Suprised anyone thinks Monye lacks pace, he seems a bit similar to the likes of Tom James a great athlete but lacking the footballing instinct, but then I havent seen much of him so could be wrong.
Everyone just pray that BOD doesnt get injured as we are very short of options at 13, Earls would give me the fear if picked in a test.
For pure speed you have Bowe and Monye and thats it thats what I mean who else is going to run 50 meters and beat the Boks
Not Boyband O'driscoll, that's for sure! Porky's past it. Don't believe the hype
Jeez how slow is Phillips delivery tonight he could send his pass from the base of the scrum by 2nd class post and hes telegraphing the pass
kaplin is a ****
Not Boyband O'driscoll, that's for sure! Porky's past it. Don't believe the hype
No other options though
Jeez how slow is Phillips delivery tonight he could send his pass from the base of the scrum by 2nd class post and hes telegraphing the pass
He's not the most rapid ut he's playing quite well
Spikey Mike is another flanker, not just a 9!
Is it me or does Paul o'connel go down far too easy. He almost falls into tackles!
And will o'gara stop kicking the ball away!
Much better half Phillips came good see I told you he was lightning quick at the base of the scrum 😆
Kaplin was obviously told something by someone about the scrum at half time and realised Gethin as all over DuPliess. He was my MOM too awesome performance by the number 1 number 1. Tackles, jackles and going forward in the scrum
CaptainFlashheart - MemberNot Boyband O'driscoll, that's for sure! Porky's past it. Don't believe the hype
Got a hat to eat? Bod had another good game - line breaks, great passing blah blah blah. Sue he ain't the quickest - I don't think he ever was but when you can read the game like he does..............
Vickery just put himself out of the test team. Jenkins immense again.
All looking good
Hat is firmly on the hatstand still, TJ.
BOD isn't as good as the hype, IMO. He threw a lot away today, despite a couple of good bits.
Vickery was indeed a muppet. No test shirt for him. Gethin? Superb.
Simon Shaw v good as a replacement, I thought. O'Connell needs to watch his back, especially as Ryan Jones is on the way out as well and can play 4/5 and captain a side as well!
Other highlights? Mikey P, well, OK so his passing is a touch off, but who cares when he bosses the game like that! Great performance.
Alun W-J? Class act. Saffer trying to bounce him out of a ruck, he just stood tall and bashed him away!
ROG was pretty steady, I thought. May well make the bench
Shane was more composed, but still a little stifled.
Roberts - Huge, as ever. Worried about the shoulder, though.
Thats it flashy - you are off my chrimbo card list. Bod is god!
I knbow what you mean really but he does have the knack of putting others into space and rarely makes mistakes.. didn't see much of Shane. Think he is for the bench at best. Its just not working for him Byrne great again. Back row did better as well. Not sure who it all was but wallace maybe? Rucking better anyway
What did Vickery actually do? was it justified?
Did anyone else watching the tinterweb feed have to keep refreshing every few minutes when it froze or is my broadband tossed
Shane got no ball but Fitzgerald didnt look a world beater, its Monye's chance to grab the 11 shirt on saturday. I thought O'Connel was very good again, not convinced by Ferris, didnt do much first half, but at 8 choices are limited. Wallace did pretty well, Martyn Williams need a huge game to displace him.
marks out of 10:
Byrne 7
Fitz 6
BOD 8
Roberts 7
Shane 5
O'Gara 5
Phillips 7
Ferris 5
Croft 7
Wallace 6
O'con 7
AW Jones 7
Adam J 6
Mears 6
Gethin 9
Vickery 0
What did Vickery actually do? was it justified?
Vickery does get pinged an awful lot. I know he can be a muppet but I reckon he must have shown his backside at the South African ref associations annual chrimbo dinner to get pinged by saffa refs so often.
not convinced by Ferris
Not surprised isnt he crocked and on the plane home
pantsonfire - MemberDid anyone else watching the tinterweb feed have to keep refreshing every few minutes when it froze or is my broadband tossed
It sometimes like that - we have two puters and tend to open a few different feeds to see which is best. A bit luck of the draw
Cheers TJ I will pinch my girls laptop and try that on sat
Not surprised isnt he crocked and on the plane home
Leamy then was it, whoever it was didnt seem to do a huge amount till it became very loose at the end.
It was Herr Lipp at 8 wasnt it
Wallace / Croft / Heaslip was the back row
The irish bloke with 8 on his shirt whoever he was, can you tell I watched it with the sound off?
Just spotted that S4C welsh channel 4 have highlights at 10 tonight might catch the bits that I missed while it was reloading the P2P feed
Match stats on http://www.scrum.com/lionstour/rugby/match/28101.html
Most yards - bod 131 with 2 clean breaks next Byrnes 87
Jones 10 tackles Heaslip 10 tackles Jenkins 7
Gethin was awesome tonight.
POC is a worry. He needs to up his game. Seriously doubt he will be dropped though
Phillips has way too slow service but still think he is in the box seat for test selection. Really wish Blair would up his game to what he is capable of.
Mears I think did himself harm tonight. Missed a strike and several dodgy throws. Ford back in the running I think
BOD is awesome and the reason Roberts is shining is BOD makes the space for him (as well as the fact he is an awesome player in his own right and can take advantage of that space!!)
400!