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Much better! Glad to see Croft going so well. Think Heaslip has to do a bit more in second half though
Also great to see the first coongratulations for Croft after his tryt being 2 Welshmen. I do so love the Lions!
Powell warming up, he might run riot through this lot!
Nice to see Todd Clever playing as well, he had a great world cup.
Phillips needs to speed up his delivery! The step then pass doesnt work!
But when he runs through people like that.....!
Hook on in the centre, interesting to see how that goes.
Hook on in the centre, interesting to see how that goes.
Backwards!
Well raise a beer to the pride of lions. Would any team in the world have lived with that?
Awesome!
bloody good performance. how did ferris not get caught at the end there? I guess the Xerox were tired eh.
Spiky Mikey in the centre as well! Touring rugby at it's finest!
Great performance. OK, against a rather dull team, but you can only beat the team in front of you, and to do it in that style is ideal.
Didnt see the game, sounds like Roberts played well again. How did Hook go? He's been shit this season, but has played 13 towards the end of the seasonit could be good for him to move away from 10. Hopefully Gethin played well too as he is world class when on form.
Gethin was good - played the whole 80 mins and was still making tackles at the end. Hook - good but his usual mixed bag I thought. No glaring errors that I saw tho
Great game, Phillips had a blinder helped by a fantastic pack. Hard to find fault really. I am still to be convinced by Monye, churlish maybe after last night.
Sterner tests to come but that was great.
TBH I think that despite the scoreline there were still plenty of faults.
Certainly there were too many penalties given away at the breakdown especially by certain forwards flopping over the ball - a feature of their play that isn't necessary.
The defence isn't exactly rock solid - too many scrambling defences for my mind for a 64 point margin. Quite a few missed first tackles.
So how is the test team developing?
I'd put forward Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Roberts, 11, S Jones, Philips for the backs based on the first two games. At 11 neither Shane or Monye has convinced me, and I'd also like to see Fitzgerald and Halfpenny play first. But I'd also like to have Kearney on the field somewhere, hmmm.
Forwards: Front row from last night, POC, AWJ, Croft, Heaslip, M Williams.
Bring on the Cheetahs - [i]should[/i] be another win as they were less than impressive in the Super14.
Team v Cheetahs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8085142.stm
Just look at how lightweight and speedy that backs division looks.
Shane gets another go, it is like management are trying to play him into some form.
Interested to see How Ellis goes as I think Phillips will be scrum half for tests.
I don't think it's a case of finding Shane's form, more of telling him to calm down and not try so hard. He's better when he relaxes.
He was trying to do too much work in the first game, trying to win the game on his own, and making too many mistakes on the way.
What is it with scrum halves - the best of them are such irritating gits and sooooooooooooo need a good slapping. 🙂 Are they scrum halves because they are irritating gits or do they become irritating gits after playing there?
Looking forward to saturdays game - I want to see Ford and Murray claim their test places. gonna be hard tho a mears and Vickory both played well
TJ - probably a mix of the two; good scrum halfs have to be irritating gits whether by nature or by learning.
TandemJeremy - Member
What is it with scrum halves - the best of them are such irritating gits and sooooooooooooo need a good slapping. Are they scrum halves because they are irritating gits or do they become irritating gits after playing there?
Last year I was going to a local gym regularly, and would often be changing alongside Ospreys players and a few ex Swansea RFC players.
One day Justin Marshall was there, and while he was perfectly polite and friendly to the 'locals' who were chatting to him, you could feel a tangible arrogance emanating from him. Taller than I expected as well.
And if you ever want to feel inferior (in every sense), try being naked next to Filo Tiatia. Massive!
try being naked next to Filo Tiatia
I cant think of many things I'd least like to do.
Anyway as for Lions and todays showing ..... I told you worsley was shit!!
told you worsley was shit!!
Well, he's not that bad, but with an unbalanced back row he was never going to shine.
Oh and can somebody tell the English forwards to stop bleeding lying on the ball and giving away penalties. Completely and utterly pointless.
TandemJeremy - Member
What is it with scrum halves
A Flanker says;
He's shit, pure shit and so is Fitzgerald at 12. Sheridan is also shit.
AA, did you see how superb Euan Murray was today? A fine display of technical scrummaging!
True, Murray scrummaged well but didnt do much in the loose, compare and contrast with Adam's popped pass from the floor when he came on, not that I'm suggesting Adam is a better player but for Murray to be top quality he needs to be doing things like that. Hines looks like he needs a run in the second row, looked good when he came on and Darcy did more in 10 mins than Fitzgerald did all game.
A treecutter, AA, I think the technical term is (according to S Barnes).
Or one dimensional. But then so is Powell.
CFH, Murray was good wasn't he, and Ford not too shabby either I didn't think.
Powell is a one dimensional donkey but then we all new that and his one dimension is useful, Worsley was gash and did nothing useful.
anagallis_arvensis - Member
True, Murray scrummaged well but didnt do much in the loose
AA, I want a tighthead to be there for their scrummaging ability. Murray has that in abundance.
To be honest I dont think too many of those that played today would make the test team. just a bit dissapointing that a team of secondary players out of the best of the British Isles could play so bad! Or maybe I am being harsh but I think England played better today
robbo, I give you Lee Byrne, Paul O'Connell and Euan Murray. All pretty much stapled on to the starting test side.
CFH - I hope you are right about Murray but I did want to see more from him and Ford today as mears and Vickery have both played very well
AA, I want a tighthead to be there for their scrummaging ability. Murray has that in abundance.
Hitting rucks is needed if you dont want to get munched at the breakdown. For example O'Callaghan was pretty good today but replace him with the more dynamic AW Jones and replace Sheridan with Gethin Jenkins and the pack would have conceded less turn overs.
To balance things up Shane was shit too but I forgive him due to the light weight centre pairing he was playing with in addition to to 1/2pence on the other wing. I thought Hooked played well considering the rubbish outside him. O'Connel is playing better each game.
My test 15 thus far:
15 Byrne/Kearney.. flip a coin time really.
14 Bowe
13 BOD
12 Roberts
11 Still up for grabs Monye doesnt convince me Shane needs to relax a bit could pick him at the moment. Fitzgerald needs a run on the wing I think, 1/2p needs another game and some ball.
10 Jones
9 Phillips
8 Heaslip
7 Wallace
6 Croft
5 AW Jones
4 O'Connel
3 Murray
2 Mears
1 Gethin
16 Ford
17 Vickery
18 Hines
19 Powell
20 M Williams
21 Ellis
22 Hook
I didn't see the game..only heard commentary on the radio. As far as I know didn't Gatland say that O'Connell and O'Driscoll were the only nailed on first choices (to which he would admit)?
I want to have O'Connell's babies. If you hail from Limerick, recent history gives you little of which to be proud. O'Connell (went to school in my parish) is a thoroughly decent chap who happens to be a great rugby player too.
In the OSM last weekend, I read that he was 6'5" and only 14 stone when he left school - had to put on about 3 or 4 stone in a year.
robbo, I give you Lee Byrne, Paul O'Connell and Euan Murray. All pretty much stapled on to the starting test side.
Yeh I would agree with that but thats about it I think. My current test team would be:
1. Jenkins
2. Mears (controversial probably but think he had a great game on sat)
3. Murray
4. O' Connell
5. A Wyn-Jones
6. Croft
7. Williams
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Jones
11. Bowe
12. Roberts
13. O' Driscoll
14. Monye (another controversial one but not convinced by anyone else)
15. Byrne
Pretty much my pick as well, Robbo. I like this too;
16 Ford
17 Vickery
18 Hines
19 Powell
20 TBC!
21 Ellis
22 Hook
Hooks versatility combined with Bowes ability to play centre and Roberts (a former full back who has played on wing for wales) allow a bench packed with forwards.
I can't see beyond Ferris at 6, the Springbok back row is massive and Croft is just a bit too lightweight at that level. We need one guy who can smash absolutely anybody in the opposition side.
Vickery, Halfpenny, Fitzgerald and maybe Ellis aren't out of the running just yet.
Hook didn't really grab the game by the scruff yesterday, although he had no ball and kicked pretty well. Bench backs is likely to be from Ellis, ROG, Hook, Fitzgerald, Halfpenny, Monye. My bet would be Ellis, ROG, Fitzgerald. Place kicking is a big consideration and I don't know they want to risk playing 65 minutes with Hook at 10.
Yeah Ferris has to be near a test place.
Vickery gives away to many penalties at the breakdown as per my comment above.
What about Darcy? Too early to say? Bench player? Nowhere near the test squad?
anagallis_arvensis I agree with your team apart from one starting pick AW jones is a brilliant player but too similar to O'Connel and as O'Connell is captain and has done good work so far hes a starter. I would start with either Hines (played well so far)or O'Callaghan (hasnt done much so far but has just the right amount of dog for a hard game) to do the dirty grunt work and then bring AW on as the game winner.
pantsonfire
The Independent yesterday was of the same opinion - they seem to think that Hines will be alongside POC to give added bulk that AWJ doesn't have.
IdleJon Just been reading the Observer and they agree with me as well **** me I had better switch on my mobile McGeechan might be ringing for some advice 😀
according to the telegraph;
Those aspects, and some fine individual performances, notably from Stephen Ferris, Andrew Sheridan and Joe Worsley, before he tired, were positives which the Lions can take away from Saturday’s work.
and
Andy Powell was the worst culprit. He seems to regard rugby exclusively as a macho contest and his selfishness led to pile-ups and turnovers which hurt the Lions throughout the game.
It would seem that the writers know nothing.....
Joe ****in Worsley was a positve? What game were they watching?
Maybe, but he's right about Powell and Sheridan.
Andy Powell was the worst culprit. He seems to regard rugby exclusively as a macho contest and his selfishness led to pile-ups and turnovers which hurt the Lions throughout the game.
This to me is odd too, I mean rugby is at the end of the day macho contest, and seeing as how Powell if picked is only picked for one thing (cause its all he does) and that is pick good lines and run hard and straight. Its hardly his fault the rest of the pack didnt ruck with the same aggression as he ran with. You could hardly suggest he should have offloaded more either as there was never anyone there. He's a big dumb lump but at least the other people in the team know what he's going to do and should be right behind him, he's not bloody Shane Williams is he.
what did Sheridan do other than dominate a very poor tighthead and amble from ruck to ruck blowing out of his arse we all know he can do that
deluded!
I just cannot bare any more of this utter utter nonsense.
Suggesting that it's the rest of the teams fault if a player constantly gets himself isolated. Good lines? He's incapable of picking a good bogey.
Powell is picked to do one thing get over the gainline, Worsley is picked to do one thing, secure the ball, Powell did his part to his usual limited standard. For ****ford to claim Worsley was a positive is deluded beyond belief, thats right its not a macho sport which is why he would never have been sparked out by an argentine schoolboy 😆
What do you want from a ball carrier someone who falls over before contact?
Worseley has a world cup winners medal, a world cup finalists medal, a premier champ medal and a Heineken cup winners medal. edit and an MBE!
Powell has no chance of ever winning any of those (unless he moves clubs).
He's not fit to lace JWs boots.
As for Sheri, whatever you say-I'm sure you know far more than pro rugby writers.
Worsley is useless - he can tackle but that is all - he is simply to slow for the modern game
anagallis_arvensis - Memberwhat did Sheridan do other than dominate a very poor tighthead and amble from ruck to ruck blowing out of his arse we all know he can do that
Absolutly true.
TJ - Welsh by any chance?
How many games did worsley play in the world cup? Worsley had some great players alongside him at Wasps. He's shit, so is powell but worsley being shit was the biggest problem yesterday. Most pro rugby writers have also realised that Sheridan has never dominated a top international tighthead.
Anyway ****ford is an arse who still thinks England are a great side full of world class players.
[url=
on bambi the touch line is this way[/url]
Andy Powell was the worst culprit. He seems to regard rugby exclusively as a macho contest and his selfishness led to pile-ups and turnovers which hurt the Lions throughout the game.It would seem that the writers know nothing.....
Or from The Independent
Stephen Ferris - one striking try and another striking run, but nothing particularly sustained from this talented player. 7Andrew Powell - on the subject of the telegraphed, Powell must find some variety because, otherwise, the defenders are simply going to stack him up. 6
Joe Worsley - In terms of commitment, he was the outstanding Lion. In terms of open-side play, something less than that. 7
Powell - One trick pony, doesn't make enough tackles or hit enough rucks. The way he charges into contact compromises his balance and limits his ability to offload. He goes off his feet far too easily which makes him harder to support. Tends to show up for first phase ball then do a disappearing act.
Worsley - Brilliant physical player who has lost some of his ability with the passage of time. Good tackler but looks terrible against groundhog flankers like Broussow yesterday. Not a great link man going forward. Limited player who has been lucky to be part of some great squads.
backhander - Member
Worseley has a world cup winners medal, a world cup finalists medal, a premier champ medal and a Heineken cup winners medal. edit and an MBE!
Powell has no chance of ever winning any of those (unless he moves clubs).
He's not fit to lace JWs boots.
As for Sheri, whatever you say-I'm sure you know far more than [b]pro rugby writers. [/b]
That's a very funny post! MBEs as well, eh?
What's the relevance of St Johnny to this particular argument?
Ackford [i]was[/i] a fine rugby player and is now just a rugby writer. Doesn't mean that he is right. It's only his opinion after all.
IMO (not expert at all, I'm just a bike rider) Worsley was the worst no7 we've seen on this tour.
Ackford is one of the most negative rugby writers around. He seems to see himself as some kind of maverick but he just comes across as a very bitter man with a skewed understanding of the modern game.
Shandy, well put but I dont think worsley was ever that good, how old is he to be on his first lions tour?
Its not his first is it? He must have been injured in 2005. I presumed he toured in New Zealand, Woodward brought every man and his goat.
The problem with players such as Worsley is that they have not moved on from 2003 - but the rest of the world has. Pace is much more important now. A major issue on Saturday was that the back row were too slow to the breakdown - watching our backs rucking against their farwards was painful.
You can be as strong as you like but if you get to the breakdown after the ball has gone then you might as well not be on the pitch
JW - Joe Worseley. the point being is that he's already achieved more than Powell ever will. For the record, he wouldn't be in my first 15 [i]but[/i] he is/was a fine defensive back row player and was not out of his depth in the England or Wasps teams.
The independent, guardian, telegraph and mail all have Sheridan down as having a good game but as ever AA is unimpressed. And because Ackford got sucker punched-he can't know anything about rugby? I think he's a better and more knowledgable writer than Cleary.
Worsley hasnt been picked on any other Lions tour. Famously last time was contracted to write for the Mirror but then wasnt picked and wrote a comical article about sitting in his car with his mobile phone, getting texts from his mates saying they were in and his phone never rang and he didn know why not. Poor thing.
backhander - MemberTJ - Welsh by any chance?
Scots fan of English descent but backing the Lions all they way. I want the best players regardless of nationality. So far IMO its
1- [b]Jenkins[/b]
2- Mears ( with the proviso I want to see Ford get another start!)
3- Vickery / Murray - too close to call
4-[b]POC[/b]
5 - AJW / Hines - too close to call
6/7/8 - Croft/ [b]M Williams[/b] / ???????Ferris
9 - Philips
10 - [b]Jones[/b]
11 - Moyne
12-Roberts
13 - Bod
14 -1/2p
15 - [b]Byrne[/b]
Not all of those are nailed on yet - those in bold are the nearest I guess. I cannot make up my mind about the back row at all.
I wouldn't even have sheridan or Worsely on the bench - to slow on their feet and between the ears.
I am really peed of with vickery 'cos he might have played Murray out of a starting place. 🙂
I'll answer my own question then Joe Worsley got his world cup winners medal and MBE for coming on as a sub in the pool game against SA and then started against the might of Samoa (yes I know they've beaten wales more times than a japanese tugboat) and Uruguay. He has been overlooked on 2 previous lions tour when at his peak in 2005 and is now out of his depth.
Sheridan is a good player who did have a good game but isnt the world class mover of the immovable that he is made out to be. I've never seen him dominate any good scrummaging tighthead or do much else around the park (he is a good lineout lifter though).
So who is going to predict the results of the test series. I am a little happier now than I was a month ago. I can see us having a 50/50 chance of winning the first test I expect a tight scoreline with it being decided by the kickers. 2nd and 3rd tests I can see the Boks coming together and ripping the Lions to shreds.
So 3-0 to the Boks anyone predicting a Lions win
I dont think the Lions have much chance.
I think the lions will win at least one test and have a damn good chance of taking the series - remember both Wales and Scotland ran them close in the autumn.
SA are very beatable and this is a good lions squad with some real world class players and with great morale.
As an aside - I thought Saturdays front row was rather funny - an over grown hobbit (ford) and orc - (Sheridan) and a troll (Murray)
The test team should have two ginger monsters in it as well 🙂
I think the Lions could sneak one win but dont think they will take the series!
It will all hinge on the way the back row and halfbacks come together. I would probably go for Ferris, Heaslip and Croft/Wallace, and Phillips and Jones. The front five and outside backs will hold their own as long as there aren't any injuries.
With all their players I think it could go 2-1 Lions. I am in optomistic form though after the Grand Slam and HEC.
I'm not convinced the front 5 will hold its own, they should win their own scrums and lineouts but I fear they just arent dynamic enough about the pitch. Outside half is a worry too, Steven Jones is a solid all rounder but not really top class and prone to kicking lapses, O'Gara is too defensively weak and doesnt offer much of an attacking threat and Hook has all the skills and all the attributes but just doesnt seem to put them all together at the same time.
AA - are you a glass half empty sort of chap?
At the moment, yes!!!
Just remember that the scots scrum totally pwned the saffers in the Autumn
I have a feeling the SA's will be a bit more up for this than they were against Scotland and Wales last autumn.
Yup - but we have the best of the home nations 🙂
I am confident of mashing 'em in the scrums and outplaying them in the backs - the question marks are can we boss the breakdown and are our half backs good enough
That's a brave call leaving out Bowe, he's on fire ATM.
1 - Sheridan For the scrums innit
2 - Mears Best lineout thrower no question and very mobile
3 - Murray
4 - POC
5 - AJW a bit more intelligent than Hines
6 - Croft Devastating in the first game
7 - M Williams If fit
8 - Ferris
9 - Philips
10 - Jones/O Gara I want to see O Gara play a bit more
11 - Moyne
12 - Roberts
13 - Bod
14 - Bowe
15 - Byrne Best in the world at 15 IMHO
One minute we need size and bulk cos SA are big buggers, the next it's too slow on their feet.
I wish S Williams was on form but he's just not himself.
BOD and reoberts have been frickin awesome so far
Sheridan instead of Jenkins? Yer having a giraffe! Right about Bowe tho. 😳
AJW more intelligent than Hines - correct but is that what you want from your second row? 😉 I think that ones a close call like Vickery / Murray
We need size and speed - hence Murray / jenkins. Sheridan is too slow between the ears and on his feet and IMO overrated in the scrum anyway ( although he had a good game on Sat}
As an ex prop I mind it staggering that you can be thinking of Vickery / Murray as a close call? Not in the same league IMO. Murray is up there as the best in the world at tight head.
Think Mears is in the hot seat for hooker but I do still think if Ford finds his 'A' game he would be the man.
You're right about Sheridan's scrummaging. It really is not that great. Just wish they would use him as a ball carrier more. Personally Jenkins every time
I hope Croft gets the nod. Stunning against the Golden Lions
Taz - Member
As an ex prop I mind it staggering that you can be thinking of Vickery / Murray as a close call? Not in the same league IMO. Murray is up there as the best in the world at tight head.
I spent a little while as a member of the Front Row Union. I would agree. Murray is superb. Vickery is not.
Sheridan is a donkey.
I'm of the back row and have been for 20 odd years.
Powell is stupid stupid stupid.
I really hope Mears gets the nod as he coaches at our club and he's a thoroughly nice chap.
I can't wait to see what goodies he brings on his next visit! Lions training kit or wishful thinking?
backhander, I moved from 3 to 6. I would also agree, Powell is indeed stupid. If, however, he can use his brain a little, he can be very destructive with ball in hand.