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Noteeth, sorry for leaving early on Tuesday.
As I see it, much depends on getting hold of the base information on which the case for Cumberland Road was calculated. That's the best (financial) reason for challenging.
The loss of greenspace is a good non-financial reason, but whether that will work is a question.
As I see it, much depends on getting hold of the base information on which the case for Cumberland Road was calculated. That's the best (financial) reason for challenging.
Absolutely - StopBRT2 did a good job of taking apart what was originally submitted to the Public Inquiry. As I understand it, their transport consultant is waiting for Atkins/BCC/WEP to release the figures, but they seem to be stalling.
Green space: I take it as a given that WEP/BCC don't give a fig for how/why people value the area. The picnic thing is simply a means of raising awareness - & something of a last stand, tbh.
sorry for leaving early on Tuesday
No need to apologise - besides, it wasn't an evening for sitting indoors. 😀
I guess that maybe this has already been covered, but I've noticed when riding over the bridge that there's no signage about StopBRT2.
Given that chuggers were doing good business there in the past, would that maybe be the way to target people - eg those that actually use it and point out that it's going to change quite significantly.
would that maybe be the way to target people
A few of us have done stints handing out leaflets on the bridge... I'll be there again this weekend. You soon develop an instinct for who will stop & who will simply run you over. 😯
Yeah, I'm thinking something more overt that doesn't require human interaction as we don't like that in general - too reminiscent of chuggers/beggars probably...
Maybe big signs over the bridge '20 buses an hour will soon be running over here', etc. Let people get the message themselves and do something if they choose - maybe an organised tweet to the Mayor - people have their smartphones with them - get them to tweet to him directly but make it easy by giving his name (@GeorgeFergusonx) and a suggested short message that makes clear their feelings...
Maybe big signs over the bridge '20 buses an hour will soon be running over here'
I've been putting up laminated posters (albeit not so readable at strava-commute speed) - they get torn down pretty quickly, either by officialdom or kids. Somebody has pasted more on the bridge's superstructure.
You're right, though - many people are simply unaware of what's happening. That said, a fair number have emailed/tweeted the Mayor about it, though it's nothing like the tidal wave of discontent about RPZ schemes!
too reminiscent of chuggers/beggars probably
In a faded Bontrager top, I am fairly reminiscent of a beggar. It's given me new respect for chuggers, mind. 😀
Don't know if it's already been said, but I've just been looking at the leaflet for Bristol's Biggest Bike Ride this Sunday and 4 out of the 5 routes go back into town over the bridge. I would have thought this would be a huge opportunity to reach thousands of cyclists from all over the city who may not be aware of the scheme.
A good point and exactly the sort of thing that should be targeted with signage making clear that this lovely bit of the route won't be so lovely in the future...
Of course, I guess I'm a classic case in that I'm going to be busy riding the event and don't have the time to help. Apathy, eh... 😳
a huge opportunity to reach thousands of cyclists
I'm away that weekend, but there should be some StopBRT2 people out leafleting on the day - any volunteers welcome, of course.
On a related note, it's pretty frustrating that Sustrans aren't being more vocal about this, although I guess they are constrained by a politically-sensitive relationship with BCC. It's clear that the original BRT2 plans give minimal consideration to foot/cycle traffic, and any concerns are likely to be batted back ("there'll still be a cycle path, blah blah")... except that sharing a 3 m cycle path becomes a good deal more imposing when it's immediately adjacent to a busy bus lane!
I'll be busy on that day leafleting for Bristol Cycle Festival, but might be able to help some other way (I'm still thinking some sort of giant placard in the shape of a bus might attract attention. Also a good way of recycling the bike box in the loft).
It looks a lot like prep work is already starting - Stop BRT2 seem to think so. https://twitter.com/StopBRT2/status/343141871415066624
Edit: Ah, you're well ahead of me I see.
I'm still thinking some sort of giant placard
Indeed - on the day of the Biggest Bike Ride, there needs to be a big fug-off sign adorning the fence, something readable at speed.
I'm not about on the 16th but if you (or anybody else) are happy to craft something out of said bike box & secure it to the fence, that would be great (it could also carry some advertising for BTG... 😀 ).
Was there again leafleting today - as usual, a good 70% of people had no idea about the current plans.
Just a thought - has anyone approached the organisers of Bristol's Biggest Bikeride to ask if NOBRT2 could hand out flyers before the start, ie at Millennium square? Better to approach people before they're riding + the organisers must surely realise that the BRT2 plans will affect future events.
at Millennium square
Good point - I will suggest it.
I'd pop down to help leafleting but don't think I'm in Bristol next weekend, that and PR not being a skill I possess. Will try to make the protest picnic next month, weather permitting.
Cheers wordnumb. Weather was on our side for the photocall, so crossed-fingers...
More drilling activity at the Chocolate Path end of the Bridge today... I guess it's exploratory/ground survey work, but even so, it's still pretty cheeky of the council to be keeping schtum about what is actually going on.
StopBRT2 email update as follows - sorry for the gurt maaassive cut n' paste:
___________________________________________________________________
Hi all,
A lot is going on. The campaign continues against the Cumberland Road route with its segregated section which runs over Ashton Ave bridge (near Create) to Ashton Vale fields and the Park and Ride site with its six sections of guideway (one on the bridge) four bridges and three embankments.
We continue to need your help with the campaign.
Sunday 16th June (this Sunday) 11.30-3.30pm We need volunteers to help hand out leaflets for an hour or two between these hours. We will be at Ashton Ave bridge and riders from Bristol's Biggest bike ride will be returning over the bridge. Please let us know if you can help and at what time.
Saturday 6th July We will be holding a walk along the proposed BRT2 route from the bridge to Ashton Vale fields and back. Starting at 2pm from the bridge. We expect to get back at about 3.30pm. And 3.30pm to 6pm we will be holding a Protest picnic on the green space to the side of the bridge. Please come, bring food and volunteer to help if you can. We need musicians and artists who can help supporters produce artwork which can be pinned to the bridge or nearby fencing. We have a poster to advertise this that we can send you as a PDF. Also a leaflet A5 size.
Inspector's report
The Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance wrote to the Department for Transport asking what is happening to the Inspector's report.
The reply from the Department told them they could not request it under a Freedom of Information request and that it would not be published until after the Secretary of State's decision on the Transport and Works act Inquiry.
Another member of the group has made an FOI request to find out what ground surveys the consultants have done and the results.
Mayor's review recommending Cumberland Road
A member of the group is pursuing the issue of when the details of the Cumberland Road route and the consultants' report recommending it, will be published by the Partnership. We were originally told it would be 23rd May. The transport consultant who acted for residents at the Inquiry has asked on our behalf for a meeting with officers and consultants to discuss the review and its findings. He has requested a list of information from the consultants so he can assess the decision but none has yet been received.
The group has a meeting arranged with the Mayor on 1st August. Six members of the group will go along. If you represent any particular group that use the bridge and would like to be included, please let us know.
Work is going on updating the website which takes some time and will be done next week so please bear with us.
Next meeting Our next meeting is on Tues 23rd July 7.30pm Hen and Chicken, North St.
Best wishes and thanks for your continued support
Stop BRT2
_____________________________________________________________________
As ever, thanks for reading. 🙂
Whoever painted those 'no bus' signs on the path, nice work! 😀
There's a [url= http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bemmy-forum/messages/topic/3DtfTCBtWeM7EuetKDilCP ]Bedminster neighbourhood forum blog[/url] keeping tabs on the drilling work.
StopBRT2 have a link to the [url= http://stopbrt2.org.uk/council-meeting-imminent-decide-route-brt2 ]Council report[/url] on the BRT2 options - official decision to be announced soon.
What an utter waste of money this whole thing is - and certainly not worth the sacrifice of a major vehicle-free route from south Bristol.
"Cycling City", my arrse. 👿
The final decision about BRT2 is to be formally discussed at a Council Cabinet meeting on the 27th June. The report (see above) makes, umm, interesting reading.
The benefit-cost models used to justify the Ashton Vale route seem to be based upon the apparent economic 'dis-benefits' of improving bus infrastructure on the Hotwells road. In other words, they don't want to interfere with existing highway (i.e. car) space - not when there's a vehicle-free route they can annexe for their godawful scheme. It's not in the least bit radical, will do nothing to grip Bristol's daily traffic gridlock and is being largely driven by the need to retain capital funding. As transport planning goes, it's pathetic. There is also [b]no[/b] mention in the report of the strong local opposition to routing buses over the Ashton Avenue Bridge, or the impact upon cycle and foot traffic (not least given that it screws with the junction between a number of busy cycle/pedestrian paths).
Anybody who has concerns can submit a statement to the Council, to be read at the meeting. These need to be sent to [b]democratic.services@bristol.gov.uk[/b] by noon 26th June. StopBRT2 also suggest sending them to the Mayor and Cabinet members, email addys as follows:
mayor@bristol.gov.uk
mark.bradshaw@bristol.gov.uk
simon.cook@bristol.gov.uk
geoffrey.gollop@bristol.gov.uk
gus.hoyt@bristol.gov.uk
barbara.janke@bristol.gov.uk
brenda.massey@bristol.gov.uk
"Cycling City" [i]and[/i] European Green Capital, my arrse. 👿
Brilliant isn't it? Out the back of Temple Meads they put two fancy new bridges in, about 109 meters apart.
The only traffic free route in and out of the City to the South West meanwhile they want to annex for some insane scheme.
Brilliant isn't it?
It's stunning, even by Bristol City Council's usual standards.
Leafleting on the bridge yesterday at around the school run/commute time really brought home to me how pished off people are about this - those with kids especially so.
When I lived on the Mendips this was the first choice route into Bristol Via long Ashton
first choice route
For many commuters, it's not just the first choice - it's the [i]only[/i] [vehicle-free] choice, short of crossing the New Cut much further down.
There'll still be a cycle-path, of course, but it will now be in [b]immediate[/b] proximity to a steady stream of buses (double-lane funneling into a light-controlled single-lane over t'bridge - they'll be backing up fast, IMO). Given how many people in this country are scared witless by cycling on the road, infrastructure like the Festival Way is [i]invaluable[/i]. You don't have to contend with vehicles - and it's a pleasant run into the city.
Everybody who walks and cycles over that bridge is already doing their bit to resolve Bristol's dire transport situation. This isn't the way to encourage 'em. 😕
I know it is ,seems bloody stupid to want to take it away just after North Somerset council complete festival way.AS many others I dont get the mayors stance on this with Bristol supposed to be a cycling city and his traffic free Sundays thing and connections to sustrans
just after North Somerset council complete festival way
Excatly - a stupid move & entirely counter to all the "cycling city" rhetoric. The Mayor seems sold on it, though.
I might have to move back to Mendip, just to escape all this nonsense. 😀
I'm assuming that this is all a big wheeze so that they can look good in 2015 when they rip it all up and make it peds/cycle only just in time for Euro green capital.
Well I can hope can't I? :-/
I'm assuming that this is all a big wheeze
The EGC thing is the icing on the cake.... what a joke!
Sorry for another [i]huuuge[/i] cut n' paste - but for those not on their contact list, here is the latest email from StopBRT2:
_____________________________________________________________________
The Council's Cabinet meeting is receiving a crunch decision report on the route options for BRT2 on Thurs 27 June (at http://www.bristol.gov.uk/press/mayor/mayor-consider-new-metrobus-proposals). The report makes no reference to the strong opposition to BRT2. We are asking as many people as possible to send short statements objecting to the Cumberland Road option for BRT2 to the cabinet members. It is anticipated that this meeting will be the final Bristol City Council meeting to decide on the preferred BRT route so it is vital that the Cabinet know the full extent of public opposition to the consultants current recommendation that the Council proceed with the Cumberland Road option. After that the Council will go back to the Government to progress the chosen route and a lot more money will be spent on it.
The statements need to be sent to democratic.services@bristol.gov.uk by noon Wed 26 June. Keep your statement as brief as possible and definitely to one page as it will be copied by officers and included in the papers for the meeting. You can ask to speak if you wish to as well if there is time(in your email) but the most important thing is to do a statement as Residents Parking is also on the agenda and probably there will be little time to speak. Please also send them copied into an email direct to the Mayor and Cabinet members. Their email addresses are at the bottom of this email. Also worth copying your local councillors who you can find at https://www.bristol.gov.uk/councillorfinder/?Task=contact_detail
For those of you who do not have the time to read the report: we contest the findings of the consultants in it. On the instruction of the Mayor after he turned down the Prince St bridge section and after a request by us which he agreed to,they have undertaken a review of two options Hotwell Road (existing route improved) and Cumberland Road (this contains the same segregated section with six guideways, four bridges (including one over the Portishead rail line) and three embankments.
It is absolutely no surprise that they have designed and costed a scheme that trashes Hotwell and promotes Cumberland. They have done this by over-engineering the Hotwell option with bus lanes along Brunel Way and then calculating the delay for motorists of doing this as disbenefits that they can then take off the Hotwell benefits. This gives Hotwells a low score on the BCR (benefits v costs ratio) and Cumberland has been given a higher score which allows them to go back to the Government and get the funding already agreed. The cost of the original scheme has gone up by over £3m. The cost of Hotwells is not mentioned.
Our transport consultant has asked for the information he needs to assess exactly what they have done with the BCR so we can advise the Mayor.
So far, this information has not been forthcoming.
[b]We are planning a protest and photo-opportunity outside City Hall at 5.30-6pm on 27 June (Thursday). This will take only half an hour max.[/b]
______________________________________________________________________
It looks the RPZ stuff will push BRT2 down the agenda (and further under the radar...).
Once again, anybody who has concerns about the Ashton Avenue Bridge, email the council at [b]democratic.services@bristol.gov.uk[/b]. Keep it short & to the point - but give 'em both barrels. 😈
I've emailed again.
If anyone's after a starting point, this is what I wrote:
[i]I wish to voice my strong opposition to the proposed BRT2 route that crosses Ashton Bridge.
The consultation has not been conducted fairly or openly and the conclusions drawn are inaccurate and misleading.
Ashton Bridge is a key point for people commuting, walking and generally enjoying the area. The proposal will destroy this for no real benefit to the city, its inhabitants or users of the area.
I strongly request that you reject these findings and review them further.
Yours faithfully
Clubber
[/i]
this is what I wrote
Nail -> Head, clubber.
Well clubbed. 😀
Ta. Sadly I think that this is a done deal which is really disappointing. Given that George has generally done a good job in my view, I don't really understand why he supports this - possibly there's stuff going on in the background that we don't know about...
I have asked him directly on Twitter but no response.
Oh, just to add, put your address on the email - I have a feeling that comments get discarded if not (or at least filtered IMO).
So have clubber and again no response.
really disappointing
Indeed it is. Moreover, many local residents & commuters still have no idea what's coming their way...
I don't really understand why he supports this
Retaining the capital funding is driving much of this, IMO (i.e. entirely the wrong driver for an integrated transport system) - but some people are muttering about future developments at that end of town. Local politics being what it is, it's hard to know what is cock-up & what is conspiracy. It being Bristol, it's probably 50/50. 🙄
This is what I wroted to themz:
I wish to strongly oppose the proposed BRT2 route that crosses Ashton Avenue Bridge.Ashton Avenue Bridge is a very very popular commuting and walking route into and out of the city centre. My son and I use this route to commute to nursery by bike three times a week and we both enjoy the completely traffic free nature of the route.
If we wish to encourage people out of their cars and onto sustainable forms of transport such as feet and cycles then destroying the only traffic free route from the SW of the city into town is frankly ludicrous. Steamrollering over green routes like this flies in the face of the claim of Bristol of being a future European Green capital. I assume that this part of the BRT2 route was not a key point of the 2015 bid?
I strongly hope that you reject this insanity and put buses where they belong, on roads not pedestrian/cycle paths.
Yours faithfully
Me
Nice one Sammy - & yes, when they were buttering up the ECG bid, I bet themz kept quiet about how BRT2 stomps on the newly-opened Festival Way!
we both enjoy the completely traffic free nature of the route
Absolutely - [url= http://www.travelwest.info/ashton_bridge ]TravelWest[/url] can wibble on asmuch as they like about how BRT2 will "save" the Bridge & "safeguard" cycle/pedestrian access... it still means putting walkers, cyclists, runners, kids & dogs in dangerously close proximity to buses. People value that route [i]precisely[/i] because it is vehicle-free - & BRT2 utterly changes that. And yes, it was once a [top-tier] road bridge (in addition to the railway), but we now have a bleedin' great big flyover - so keep the buses on that!
Whether it'll do ough… I also copied in the Green Capital people.
I wish to strongly make known my opposition to the proposed BRT2 route that crosses Ashton Avenue Bridge.In light of Bristol being nominated the European Green Capital, I find the continued push for BRT2 an absolute disgrace. In a city with so called green ambitions, the recently completed Festival Way route and the general Bristol Harbourside area are what many consider to be the green heart of the city. The only thing BRT2 will achieve is to rip that green heart out.
This route is the only refuge for people wishing to move in and out of the city by non-motorised means from the west and wider southern regions. I myself use the route daily and often tow my son by trailer. The Ashton Avenue bridge in particular cannot sustain bus traffic and the cyclist and walkers and it's obvious the later will lose out.
As a Pill resident I am not governed by Bristol City Council and you may wish to discount my views, but I do work in the city and have done for the last 8 years (and lived in Bristol for 4 of those).
Festival Way is one of only a few true pieces of decent pedestrian and cycling infrastructure in the city. Please don't steam roller over this with a scheme that appears to be poorly thought out, and offers no real benefits – it only serves to make a mockery of the European Green Capital award we've just been given.
Kind Regards
Gary Lake
<Address removed>
And what are George Fergusons proposed variations out of interest? https://twitter.com/garylake/status/347713716004978688
it only serves to make a mockery of the European Green Capital award
Amen to that, thanks Gary. The scheme is so ludicrously about-face, it's [i]almost[/i] funny.
I'm off to lurk on the Bridge, inna sandwich-board-prophet-of-doom stylee... 😈
If you're there at about 5:15pm I'll stop and say hello!
Bright Green Orange Gyro…
Good to meet you GaryLake (& various other commuting STWers...).
Stand there long enough & I guess most Brizzle mountain bikers will ride past. 😀
So from twitter it sounds like we'll have brt3 soon. Good news, I think?
I thought BRT3 was the N -> S route?
Anyway, this is what the Mrs sent:
Dear Mayor and Bristol City Councillors
I am writing to you to object to BRT2 and to express my concerns about the Cumberland Road route being considered.
As a Southville resident I am particularly worried about the impact that the Cumberland Road BRT2 route will have on the use of the area surrounding Ashton Avenue Bridge. This area is used for a mixture of purposes including walking, cycling, running, dog walking, skateboarding and other leisure activities.
As I set out below, I do therefore query whether in reality some of the key policy objectives for the scheme will be achieved, notably (from my personal viewpoint): increased patronage (and with it financial efficiency) and greenhouse gas emissions (better on a bike than in a bus). I am also a little concerned that the option of not proceeding has not been included for discussion.
Myself, I use Festival Way and the Ashton Avenue Bridge to commute to work (by bike), take my child to and from nursery (by bike), for family cycle rides, running and walking. It is only fairly recently that the Festival Way route was improved to provide a link to and from Greville Smyth Park as well as the cycle "pump track" opened, which is well used by young people in the area.
The impact of buses running along this area will be immense and it seems completely at odds with:
The investment that has been made in the area in recent years.
Bristol being a "Cycling City" - this is a great area to take budding cyclists to learn to ride their bikes and for older youths to improve their skills on the pump track. Getting young people on their bikes must be part of the Cycling City initiative yet this is one of the few areas in the south of the city that provides such a large, accessible and positive traffic free area. The route proposed for the BRT2 cuts straight through the main arteries to access this area and I cannot imagine that you'd actively choose to cycle or spend any time anywhere near a bus route.
Green Capital 2015, for similar reasons not to mention the impact that the works themselves will have.
Having been a Bristol resident for over a decade and worked in several locations around the city, I also wonder how well used the Park and Ride options ever are. I remember the photos of the underused Park and Ride at Avonmouth; spaces standing empty after significant investment was made to increase capacity. Knowing a number of people who commute in to Bristol from North Somerset by car, I cannot see any of them opting for the park and ride service, because it won't be seen as more convenient for them, so why choose it?It seems to me, as someone who lives in and cycles to work in Bristol and would be affected by the Ashton Avenue Bridge option, that I am being disadvantaged to try to benefit those who I do not believe would take up the option (i.e. those who see that park and ride is an option are already using the current service). Not to mention the prospect of my taxes being used to fund/subsidise the activities of a bus operator and those users whose travel arrangements of those who don't live in the Bristol vicinity.
Given these reasons, if a Bristol BRT route has to be developed the existing Hotwells Road route (enhanced) must be the logical choice?
As my five year old son said to me on Sunday (as we were participating in Bristol's Biggest Bike Ride's Family Fiesta) - if the buses are taking our cycle paths then maybe we should ask the Mayor to do a swap and we (cyclists and pedestrians) can have the roads. You can't argue with the logic of a 5 year old.
I am not a "reclaim the streets" activist, just a south Bristol mum who cycles her way around the city and will continue to encourage my children to do so too, as long as there are safe traffic-free routes for us to use.
Yours, in hope of the right outcome,
If anyone wants to submit a written question, the deadline is 5pm today. The meeting is 27 June at 6pm
See https://www.bristol.gov.uk/committee/2013/ua/agenda/0627_1800_ua000.html
Ta ransos - will submit something suitably awkward.
Sterling letter, Mrs SammyC. 😀
It's obvious that the StopBRT2 posters on the bridge are being expressly targeted (taken down late at night, other stuff is left intact, etc).
Seems that somebody would prefer it if local residents & commuters didn't know what's being planned. Whoever is tearing them down, I [i]really[/i] want to meet them. 👿
Monday morning type bump.
Anybody who has objections, be sure to submit a statement to the Council, to be read at the meeting. These need to be sent to [b]democratic.services@bristol.gov.uk[/b] by noon 26th June.
This is being fought on quite a wide front - [url= http://www.bristolcivicsociety.org.uk/ ]Bistol Civic Society are not amused[/url], for one thing. Given how the dumbass scheme is being driven, bendy-bus style, through the planning process, it's hard to envisage it being stopped... but it's also an opportunity to direct some well-argued anger at the Council & the WEP. They need to be reminded that cyclists and pedestrians are [i]already[/i] doing their bit to help resolve Brizzle's dire transport sitution - which is why vehicle-free routes like the Festival Way are so valuable.
George ferguson seems to be glossing over things on twitter, could do with some more effort there...
What was George's position during his mayoral campaign?
George ferguson seems to be glossing over things on twitter
I'm not on Twitter, but I noticed your questions re: the Bridge - good work!
The structure of Ashton Avenue Bridge is certainly in a poor state - parts of it are plain rotten, a process accelerated by its continuing neglect. Any structural refurb is going to be very expensive (&, IMO, it's not been adequately budgeted for in the BRT2 plans - more overspend...). It's a Grade II listed structure, so any work has to be done within those planning confines. How close it is to actual collapse is a moot point - but I would expect BCC to claim that it will in the river soon.
Now, I would be [i]delighted[/i] to see the Bridge properly restored -but that's [b]not[/b] an [i]a priori[/i] argument for putting buses over it. But this will be the line that BCC & the WEP use to justify the BRT2 plans - i.e. that only this scheme will enable the capital investment to "save" the Bridge. Which has nothing to do with the [i]actual[/i] merits (or otherwise) of putting a bus lane along that route. In a forward-thinking (and, admittedly, better-resourced) universe, the Bridge would be worth saving in its own right - & then we could have separate pedestrian/bike lanes! Imagine that...
What was George's position during his mayoral campaign?
He was [i]very[/i] clear about it not going thru the harbourside (an area close to his heart - the cranes, etc). IIRC, he was rather vague about the Ashton Vale route, beyond being critical of the funding-in-search-of-a-problem (i.e. complete arrse-about-face) nature of the scheme. Interestingly, some of the contracts being put out by BCC seem to reflect the design of the [i]original[/i] scheme. I don't know what's going on there.
More drilling is now going on adjacent to the Chocolate Path. The Bunker Bikes guy told 'em off for parking right across it. 😆
Hang around overnight and confront / video them?
It's tempting. 😈
More on Bristol Civic Society's stance: [url] http://www.bristol247.com/2013/06/25/bristol-civic-society-condemns-bus-rapid-transit-options-87579/ [/url]
They nail the issue - "To say that this is illogical is a monumental understatement."
Someone was putting fresh notices up around 0815 this morning. I woke this morning to find a link to this in my Twitter feed
http://www.travelwest.info/ashton_bridge
with the quote: "the bridge will stay open for peds/cyclists. They'll have a wider, smoother, safer and separate path".
Much as I don't want buses on the bridge, it does appear to be going to rack and ruin, and refurbishment seems unlikely to be funded any other way in the current climate.
Someone was putting fresh notices up around 0815 this morning
That was me! 😀
The patterning of poster removal (latest round - fri/sat/sun nights) suggests that it isn't somebody who regularly (i.e. daily) uses or commutes over the bridge, which just adds to the irony.
it does appear to be going to rack and ruin
Indeed - but, IMO, that's still not a valid reason for the exact choice of bus [b]route[/b], which should be decided on its own merits. BCC & the WEP have got some cheek taking this line, given how the bridge has been neglected in the past. It's also a staggering amount of money to be spending on moving bus services over from Hotwells, not least given how the cash could be better spent.
Anyway, in a final-stand stylee, the deadline for submissions is [b]noon today[/b]. I crayoned this.. essentially a re-hash of all my ramblings on here:
_______________________________________________________________________
To whom it may concern,
I am writing as a resident of Ashton Road and as a daily (cycle/pedestrian) commuter into central Bristol. I wish to object to the proposed routing of the BRT2 rapid transit scheme via the Cumberland Road. I remain deeply concerned at how this has been steamrollered through the planning process. I would like to raise the following issues:
1. From the outset, BRT2 appears to have been driven by the need to retain capital funding - rather than an honest appraisal of Bristol's transport needs. Both Bristol City Council and the West of England Partnership have been less than forthcoming about how they have reached their conclusions.
2. The criteria used to evaluate the cost-benefit ratios of the (Hotwells versus Cumberland Road) two options proposed by the Mayoral review are extraordinary! Modifications to existing highway (i.e. car) capacity are considered an economic 'dis-benefit' - in service of a scheme that is (likely) to be routed through valuable traffic-free space. A bizarre assessment for a city that is now priding itself on its European Green Capital credentials.
3. From the original plan onwards, foot and cycle traffic has been given minimal consideration. The importance of vehicle-free routes such as the busy (& newly-completed) Festival Way cannot be overstated: in a country in which many commuters are too scared to cycle on the roads, such infrastructure is crucial. Either we encourage people to get out of their cars - or we don't. Any truly radical transport plan would involve existing road infrastructure... not the annexation of valuable traffic-free space! I also note that, whilst dilapidated, the Ashton Avenue Bridge is still a viable railway bridge. In the long-term, a light rail or tram system would make far more sense than a fudged bus route.
4. At present, it is possible to travel into the city from South Bristol without having to contend with vehicular traffic. The proposed Ashton Vale bus route compromises this by placing pedestrians and cyclists in immediate proximity to a busy bus-lane. Claims that foot/cycle access will be "safeguarded" are disingenuous - if the proposed route is to carry the full volume of (Park & Ride/Airport) bus traffic, that is a huge number of buses being routed over the Ashton Avenue Bridge (presumably, dual bus-lanes funnelling into a single light-controlled guided lane over the existing rail tracks). This will completely transform the area, both on the Bridge and its approaches. On a standard (i.e. minimum 3 metre) path, walking/cycling becomes a good deal more imposing when immediately adjacent to a busy bus lane - not least for those accompanied by children, pushchairs, dogs, etc. Needless to say, the route is valued precisely because it is vehicle-free - and everybody who walks/cycles along it is already helping to resolve Bristol's continuing gridlock. This scheme does nothing to encourage them.
5. Although simply treated as a disused railway bridge in the original BRT2 plans, the Ashton Avenue Bridge is extremely busy at "rush hour" (both AM and PM) with foot/cycle traffic. Given the likely number of buses at peak hours, there is considerable potential for public hazard at the intersections either end of the Bridge. In addition, I fail to see how adequate traffic control can be accomplished without considerable delays for all concerned.
6. Although sentiment generally counts for nothing in planning, please do not underestimate how the area in and around Ashton Avenue Bridge (i.e. Ashton Vale fields, Sylvia Crowe Park, Butterfly Junction, the Chocolate Path, the New Cut) is affectionately regarded by residents and pedestrian/cycle commuters. It is a valuable green corridor - offering a reasonably peaceful and pleasant route into the centre, and affording fascinating glimpses into the city's industrial heritage & the wilder Avon Gorge beyond. There is a large flyover in the immediate vicinity - so keep the buses on that!
7. It is clear that the Ashton Avenue Bridge is in need of significant structural repair, having been neglected for many years. I suspect this has been inadequately budgeted for, adding to (the liable) overspend. Whatever its fascinating (railway/top-tier road bridge) history, and whilst the BRT2 scheme would provide investment capital for refurbishment, this is not in itself an [i]a priori[/i] argument for the choice of bus route. As a listed Grade II structure, the Bridge is worthy of investment for its own sake - and I note that the Council have failed to provide even basic upkeep or improvements (e.g. paint, lighting).
8. Such disruption might be worth it, if the BRT2 scheme was to offer stellar improvements. Judging by submissions to the Public Inquiry, however, such improvements are likely to be negligible - not least in terms of passenger numbers, patronage and journey times. Although the promotion of Bristol Temple Meads as a transport "hub" is clearly important, I fail to see how Park and Ride passengers are better served by diversion away from the existing Hotwells route.
9. Improvements to the existing Hotwells route could be achieved at much less expense and disruption - were it not for the strange BCR modelling employed (see above). As it is, I suspect Bristol City Council will end up spending a huge amount of money, with very little to show for it. The Park and Ride/Airport services will have been re-routed at vast cost, central bus services will remain prohibitively expensive, few commuters will have been encouraged out of their cars - and the daily gridlock will continue.
10. Finally, and to be frank, the plans make a nonsense of both the "Green Capital" and the "Cycling City" rhetoric. What kind of civic authority trumpets about the completion of a demonstrably-successful cycle path - and then runs buses along it? Worries about how Bristol is perceived in London or by the Department of Transport are a poor excuse for the likely impact upon existing traffic-free and green space. If millions of pounds of public money are to be squandered for such vainglorious reasons, do not expect voters to be forgiving.
I would urge you to reconsider this scheme - and I thank you in advance for your consideration.
Yours sincerely,
Noteeth
Bemmy.
Problem is, there's a lot of scare mongering over the bridge falling into ruin. No actual info as to whether it's going to fall down or not.
Metro Bus TW seemed to think that because it's listed at risk, it's therefore going to fall down. No stats or survey information provided.
a lot of scare mongering over the bridge falling into ruin
Exactly - it's a weirdly-emotional appeal from interests who otherwise haven't given a flying **** about the structural state of the Bridge.... [i]"and now only buses can save us."[/i]
Er, no.
Ok, today is the day. There is a Council Cabinet meeting this pm to discuss BRT2 - although I'm sure the decision has already been taken. I'm not hopeful of a happy outcome, but (& at the risk of sounding like the [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/portlandia-spoofs-fixed-gear-cyclists-video ]Portlandia fixie dude[/url]... "BICYCLE RIGHTS!!!") at least we helped fight the corner for a vehicle-free Festival Way. The Council is now taking a [i]lot[/i] of flack for this ridiculous scheme.
So, thanks to everybody who has kept up with this thread & emailed/hassled the Council, thanks to the Mods for stickying it for the photocall - and thanks to the fine staff of Stationery World, Park Street, for their continued interest in what was happening (whilst laminating posters). No thanks to the WEP for being such muppet transport planners.
StopBRT2 are planning a [url= http://stopbrt2.org.uk/come-our-protest-picnic-saturday-6-july-ashton-avenue-bridge-330pm-6pm ]walk and "protest picnic"[/url] on the afternoon of sat 6th July, if anybody would like to attend.
How much say does Ferguson have in the final route?
Last ditch on twitter from me:
#BRT2 decision tonight… "Watch this space - alternative to BRT2 following my proposed variations will certainly not do so." @GeorgeFergusonx
I fear we'll be seeing buses over Ashton Avenue Bridge and along harbour side before long #green #yeahright @StopBRT2 @GeorgeFergusonx
[url= http://www.bristol247.com/2013/06/28/cumberland-road-option-chosen-for-bus-rapid-transit-plan-92430/ ]Here we go...[/url]
Bristol City Council and the West of England Partnership, you really suck. 👿
It's an odd argument, "the only way to save a rusty bridge is to start running buses over it". You don't hear people claiming that the only way to save this rusty old car is to turn it into a hovercraft, or the only way to repair this overgrown lane is to turn it into a motorway. The only way to keep the grass short in this park is to use it as a car park.
There's no point in pointing these things out, the discussion was held purely so that it can said that the matter was properly debated. Somebody is banking on making money out of the BRT2 scheme and they don't care whether it's good for bus users or the locality or for mildly dilapidated bridges. FTW & FBCC.
the only way to save this rusty old car is to turn it into a hovercraft
😀
Indeed, what nonsense this whole thing is.
Difference being: hovercraft are awesome, bendy-buses ain't.
hovercraft are awesome, bendy-buses ain't
I would have supported a rapid transit hovercraft...
Bus to Pill, hovercraft into town / train station. Problem solved.
So to confirm, while no buses on harbourside, they will be going over the Ashton Avenue bridge?
They will be going over Ashton Ave Bridge... unless people turn out en-mass to raise awareness that this is a silly idea which is to the detriment of the city.
No harbourside, not sure about the chocolate path.
Just tweeted:
Precedent has been set by @GeorgeFergusonx, key to saving our treasured traffic free spaces is to put traffic on them #gogreen (@StopBRT2)
Chocolate path survives on the Cumberland Road plans, but I'm guessing there will be conflict up near Goal Ferry Bridge around the new bus stops. The pavement / cycle path up there is to be narrowed too.
About time the chocolate block path was re-surfaced, mind, it's treacherous after frost...
About time the chocolate block path was re-surfaced, mind, it's treacherous after frost...
I've complained repeatedly about that: there's now a small sign telling you it's slippy sometimes. Genius.
It's horrible on a road bike - I use the road instead.
It's horrible on a road bike - I use the road instead.
^ This. Then you may be the lucky recipient of abuse from a vehicular eejit, along the lines of "use the effing cycle lane you effing so-and-so". 😀
The (brief) [url= http://stopbrt2.org.uk/sites/stopbrt2/files/documents/option_generation-1a.pdf ]response[/url] from StopBRT2's transport consultant makes interesting reading. He was never given access to detailed reports, despite repeated requests - but it's clear that the Hotwells option was heavily "value-engineered" for the Mayoral review.
I wish Isambard Brunel would rise again and smite these fools.
noteeth was spotted yesterday, defeating an aggressive passer-by with the overwhelming superiority of his argument...
I like the new high up posters, difficult to take them down I'm guessing! 🙂
defeating an aggressive passer-by with the overwhelming superiority of his argument
Ha, only with your help... good job you arrived when you did. 😀
the new high up posters
The work of a very angry lady, with a ladder.
I've been following the BRT2 scheme with interest, and am curious to know what people's opinions would be if, hypothetically, the route across ashton avenue bridge was shelved, and instead it was proposed to reinstate the rail line over the bridge to link up with the proposed portishead line, run by a peak hour train shuttle service, but retaining accessibility for cyclists and walkers?
Would people be in favour or against such a scheme, and why?
Many thanks
(reply to ^ t'other page)
Hello corbs. Personally I'd be against any form of motorised transport using this route as its value is as a traffic free route in and out of the centre of one of the larger of the UK's cities. The NoBRT2 team make some excellent arguments about how the scheme doesn't actually solve many problems and can show the claims made for BRT2 are, putting it politely, overstated. I'm not clever enough to know how fast a bendy-bus can make it around a ninety degree blind corner, it's not the sort of knowledge I aspire to. Trains are great, but I have no idea whether they'd go where people want to get to at whatever time they insist on being there (not a second before or a second later). I just think it would spoil a very beautiful cycle and pedestrian route - and this seems entirely at odds with so much of what the Mayor and Council say about making Bristol a nice place to live.
Reinstating the Portishead line for passengers would use the extant line through Ashton Vale (possible reinstating the Ashton Vale station) to the junction just before Parson Street and via Bedminster station on to Temple Meads.
Reinstating the docks line would involve reworking the M-Shed area, buldozing a load of the new builds by Bathhurst basin, reengineering the tunnel behind the old General hospital under Redcliffe, rebuilding the two bridges over Temple Gate Gyratory and buldozing some of the new Temple Meads carpark to make the link.
If they wanted to return the bridge to its original two-deck configuration, one deck for rapid transit, one for everyone else, that'd be pretty cool, but they're insistant on doing it on the cheap.
Hmmm...I don't know where I stand with this one. I rode over the bridge for the first time on Sunday. Certainly the park on the south side is a nice spot and it would be a shame to see buses/trains/whatever coming through there. But looking at the route it seems as though this green area wouldn't be affected too much, vehicles would run over the disused railway. Not sure you can really say the north side is that beautiful! Maybe if you find urban decay exciting...
I wrote an email to democratic services saying I was against the scheme, but I'm more against the way it's being forced through un-democratically than the route, although it would have been awful if the original one in front of Arnolfini and M Shed had have got through. I'm more against the fact that the whole scheme seems like a cheap solution that just hasn't had enough thought put into it. I think if people were presented with a proper tram system it would get more support. Interesting to see that the proposal says the buses would be electric? So at least they'd be quieter than diesels?
What if the bridge was rebuilt with space for cyclists and vehicles?
Not sure you can really say the north side is that beautiful! Maybe if you find urban decay exciting...
These things are relative. Relative to glass-fronted modern buildings surrounded by notices informing you that you are on privately owned land, yes the dereliction is beautiful.
Hmmm...I don't know where I stand with this one. I rode over the bridge for the first time on Sunday. Certainly the park on the south side is a nice spot and it would be a shame to see buses/trains/whatever coming through there. But looking at the route it seems as though this green area wouldn't be affected too much, vehicles would run over the disused railway.
Actually, over 1ha of green space is going to be taken as the route runs to Long Ashton P&R, including part of a designated Site of Nature Conservation Interest.