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javid the mekon said
If the EU, like us, wants a durable relationship, we should also include measures to directly address the long-term needs of industry for a reliable equivalence process. This would provide the certainty on which internationally mobile businesses can depend.
Or - unless you give us access like we had before all the banks will run away to the EU
At what point will we be allowed to string these ****ers up from lamp posts? Before or after they destroy the economy?
Asking for a friend.
The economy won’t be ‘destroyed’, but it will be damaged, and ‘transformed’ at speed to try and mitigate that damage, and not transformed in a way that benefits you and me in any way… quite the opposite.
[Binners’ last post probably describes this transformation process better than most.]
There will be no stringing up of the conmen… it is those that have been pointing out the bait’n’switch con that are likely to feel the anger of the mob, not those that conned them.
Here we go. Statement this morning from Ursula von der Leyen, the EU commission president about what is being referred to by Joris Bohnson as an 'Australian style deal':
"Honestly, I was a little bit surprised to hear the prime minister of the United Kingdom speak about the Australian model. Australia, without any doubt, is a strong and like-minded partner. But the European Union does not have a trade agreement with Australia. We are currently trading on WTO terms. And if this is the British choice, well, we are fine with that, without any question. But in fact we just are in the moment where we are agreeing with Australia that that we must end this situation and we work on a trade deal with them."
They're going to crash us out on No Deal. They're not even bothering to pretend that they're intending to do owt else. They've just given it a new name
Or – unless you give us access like we had before all the banks will run away to the EU
Yep, which is basically a tacit admission that the alternatives are now really BRINO or economic disaster.
And why SHOULD they help us?
Manufacturing suffering the most in Q4.
And investment only saved by the government own investment.
All going well on board Brexit front.
And why SHOULD they help us?
They want to help us. It genuinely is in their interest to do so. But they can’t give us the benefits of a rule based system if we refuse to sign up to the rules. “We” voted to no longer be a member, so can no longer set the rules, and our government(s) can chose to use the rules or not… if it choses not to (which has looked like the end game for many years now) then we can’t benefit from them. It’s simple really, and nothing to do with what “they” want to do, and their willingness or otherwise to help us. The rules are not a “price to pay” to get the benefits, they are how you enable the benefits to exist.
Sorry, I should have been clearer.
What I was saying was:
Why should they help us to subvert their own rules for our own individual gain?
Carlisle will be like Tijuana.
Only without the sunshine, cactus and agave!
All I can do is keep highlighting the broken promises and backtracking to all those who for whatever reason were taken in and voted for these measures. They seem easily led and gullible, I'm hoping they'll do the lamp post stringing so I don't have to
When you think about it, the risk of this ending up going a bit lamp-posty is actually pretty high.
This lot have cynically mounted a power grab by promising the most angry and pissed-off people in the country that they can have the solution to all their problems - the moon on a stick and that there are no down-sides to that.
They fully intend to not only fail to deliver that moon on a stick, but to use this as a ruse to increase their own wealth and power at the expense of the already angry and pissed off people.
On top of this, the people who weren't angry and pissed off enough to vote for this are now really, really, really angry and pissed off too
Thats an awful lot of anger and pissed-offness to be on the receiving end of when the cold harsh reality of the lies and deceit become glaringly apparent, which by my reckoning is now less than 11 months away
They will use their control of the media to shift the blame elsewhere and these idiots who fol;owed them this far will follow them on that step as well.
Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon! Would be nice if they grew a backbone and scuppered Johnson.
will follow them on that step as well
As I said, if there are ever lynchmobs, they won’t be going after the highly successful conmen, their attention will be diverted elsewhere. We should be very fearful of that outcome.
Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon! Would be nice if they grew a backbone and scuppered Johnson.
His angle will be that they don't just do what he says. Could well be another round of 'sack the ones that still ask awkward questions'.
Not necessarily a good thing.
They will use their control of the media to shift the blame elsewhere and these idiots who fol;owed them this far will follow them on that step as well.
That's why I'm keen to keep reminding where the blame really is - there are a couple I know who would quite readily turn and swing me from the lamp post, they seem more and more rabid and unhinged the more you point out how they have been lied to, or at least, had their xenophobic/racist tendencies pandered to
Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon!
The Observer did a piece on Cummings at the weekend. Apparently even Boris is tiring of Doms constant need to be disruptive and abusive and bullying to everyone. Everyone else in cabinet is heartily sick of him as he has no off switch and is just an evil gnome. And now the Tory majority has been secured, he's served his purpose.
We'll find out in the reshuffle on Thursday. Dom and 'the Saj' absolutely despise each other (as he won't just do as he's told) and Dom is insisting he's shifted away from number 11. So whether he's demoted or not will then indicate whether Doms power is waning, post-election or whether the cabinet amount to more than just a bunch of nodding dogs
The Irish election result has to be a surprise to the Government, can’t see Sinn Fein playing nice with any British government
their attention will be diverted elsewhere. We should be very fearful of that outcome.
It's already started (well, it started years ago, but whatevs).
LOL, I could tell that was The Sun within the first couple of lines. Rah rah.. Gotcha.. stick it up the Argies.. etc etc.. just sad.
They will lap that article up!!!!! ,,😂
Here we go. Statement this morning from Ursula von der Leyen, the EU commission president about what is being referred to by Joris Bohnson as an ‘Australian style deal’:
“Honestly, I was a little bit surprised to hear the prime minister of the United Kingdom speak about the Australian model. Australia, without any doubt, is a strong and like-minded partner. But the European Union does not have a trade agreement with Australia. We are currently trading on WTO terms. And if this is the British choice, well, we are fine with that, without any question. But in fact we just are in the moment where we are agreeing with Australia that that we must end this situation and we work on a trade deal with them.’
Yep so rebranding no-deal as the Australian model that oddly enough the Australians don’t want since they’re negotiating a better one 🙂
I was giving Boris the benefit of the doubt but it’s definitely looking a bit iffy with all the rebranding exercises, that looks more like an early indicator their intention is likely to be selling no-deal as a deal and heading us USA.
That Sun piece is truly frightening. I can almost hear the dambusters theme.
Clean break 🙂
My ass, ongoing unresolved EU squabbling over things for years, media feeding a toxic relationship against the EU.
Standards are slipping…
In the '70's, before and just after the EU "ruined everything good about Britain" by finally letting us join, Britain was 541t.
And it measurably was.
Known as the dirty man of Europe.
It was also know as the poor man of Europe as, despite being "free" to do the deals it wanted and trade "with the world", we were 541t.
And it measurably was.
Known as the poor man of Europe, it was - a nod to the Ottoman's, I think.
Haven't got a point.... Just enjoying the remaining time I can buy potatoes or pick a phone up and call the Fire Brigade without being asked for an insurance number.
"Sick man of Europe" I believe.
Good that Boris is doing his bit to save the country some cash: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51482220
I like the example he is setting - anyone want to give me £15000 for my next holiday?
not strictly Brexit but what do we think of the prospect of Supreme Court judge appointments being subject to parliamentary influence?
No-one's saying it'll happen and in fact #10 has refused to endorse Cox's comments, but equally the manifesto identified 'wide reaching constitutional reforms' which i can't imagine will be to tighten up scrutiny of what government can do......
Very good reasoned analysis of where we are heading here...and very worrying:
https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/britains-existential-crisis-is-now-looking-very-real/
It'd be really great if anyone who voted for brexit could have a read through that, if you can be bothered, and come back with some valid argument as to why you still think it's a good idea...
.
That article is absolutely bang on! One particular statement in there is becoming increasingly obvious.
The manufacturing industries in Britain are to be sacrificed just as the coal and steel industries were in the 1980s
So its going to be the same places that were hit last time that are going to cop for it this time too. The Tory's are just going to use Brexit to finish off the job they started in the 80's.
A lot of people who voted for Brexit and then voted Tory on the basis that 'it can't get any worse' are about to find out that it most certainly can get worse. A lot, lot worse
https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/status/1227906931450425344
Love shit like this and it'll happen more and more. The day after the Brexit vote my sister travelled to Rome and they made UK citizens go through the everyone else queue, she said it took hours
Edit, how do you embed Twitter?
[Mod edit: fixed for you. Just C&P the URL.]
Talking to people here in Germany there is a line of thinking that goes "let them suffer". An almost schadenfreude-esque attitude towards the UK.
How much does the EU need the UK?
Does it matter to them if the UK falls off its pedestal and another nation takes its place? Not really.
It's this bit from the above article that caught my attention:
" the financialisation of our entire economy now means that 38% of working-age households now take more from the state in benefits than they pay back in taxes and child poverty is expected to reach an eye-watering 37% in just four years time."
Both factors are horrifying for our future. How well is our society going to function in a decade or few's time when all these children whose futures have been stunted by poverty grow up?
I guess the standard Brexity answer is that we will have now have a "boom', and dear god we need one, unfortunately most analysis shows that's highly unlikely to happen. Even 'Rees Mogg' said it might take 50 years to see any benefit.
Thanks BrexyBoomers for taking away our life chances.
theotherjonv - with Cox's departure and being replaced by Braverman you can be guaranteed that governmental interference in the judicial process will become very real.
Quote from the article describing this gov as being '....despots not democrats' will be proved 100% true.
endoverend - I cannot disagree with any of the truepublica article; how long will it take before brexiters realise they were sold a pup by johnson & co and turn against him and the gov?
Will they accept responsibility for their actions when they and their families are faced with job losses, shrinking manufacturing base, increased cost of living, reintroduction of visas for european travel, more overt racism and xenophobia?
Some will but many won't and will blame the EU for failing to '...give us what we want'; that message is already being promoted by right wing press.
Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?
Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?
On the face of it no reason.
Sure they want us to prosper as much as possible together but if we try to subvert their system then they will, rightly, tell us to get stuffed.
Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?
There's no reason they should "give us a hard time."
What they absolutely cannot do, however, is give us anything at all which is better than than what they offer to EU member states because that would undermine the very point of being a member in the first place. No club in the history of ever offers better benefits to its non-members than to its members.
Cougar - let me rephrase.
Why should the EU co-operate with UK gov to '...give us what we want'?
The UK doesn't have many bargaining chips; as for a negotiating position - we don't have one and we lack the negotiating skills.
All of the EU's trade negotiators who have helped the UK to benefit since 1973 are now sitting on the other side of the table.
It is clear that the EU will be presented as giving us a hard time and, as stated somewhere up there ^^^, it's started.
Why would a club offer the same benefits to non-members as it does to members? They wouldn't and the EU won't.
Okay, I’m saying this yet again. The EU is not making a choice when it says that we can not have the benefits that arise from shared rules unless we follow those shared rules… it is simply a fact… a truth… a truism. Losing the benefits that arise from harmonisation across borders has to happen if we opt out of the harmonisation. After all these years you’d have thought people in the UK would have got this. I’d at least have thought that anyone bothering to contribute to this and the previous thread would have worked this out by now. The EU is not making it hard on us… “we” are choosing to no longer partake in rules based systems from next year that currently benefit us. This is nothing to do with EU choices, it is the choice of the donkeys that lead us, cheered on by infantilised voters.
Anyway, came to post this… it’s short but essential reading…
https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1228339846281908226?s=21
Cougar – let me rephrase.
Yup, no arguments with any of that.
@mehr, it gets better!
https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/status/1223994133154496513?s=20
https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/status/1227906931450425344?s=20
Cmon, fess up, who is it?
Incorrect use of the present perfect continuous (‘have been standing’, not ‘have been stood’) and the ending of a sentence with a preposition. And to think leave- voting boomer types are always complaining about younger people having a poor grasp of grammar.
JP
Very good reasoned analysis of where we are heading here…and very worrying:
I thought Byline was a mad conspiracy site, but that one is fantastic, good find, well done.
Ooh, wait a minute ...
Taking a photo at immigration is expressly forbidden.
Read some of the comments here https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/schiphol-airport-amsterdam-tweet-1-6514898
That’s not funny. The reference to ‘down the King Power’ means there is a high likelihood this chump lives near me somewhere.
Still, I saw a loaf of bread in Sainsbury’s earlier that reminded me of this guy, then I looked a bit closer and realised it actually said ‘Thick Cut’.
kelvin - I suggest you read my follow-up post clarifying '...giving us a hard time'.
I think most contributors have a decent understanding of what is happening - specifically the benefits of harmonisation.
The EU could say, amongst other things:
- OK, you've left but we will work co-operatively with you to ensure the UK achieves the best possible deal without compromising any of our stated objectives and core principles
or
- you've left; we will not offer any significant concessions to the UK, will not be obstructive or uncooperative but will not be bounced into helping you achieve your date for concluding a trade agreement
or
- you've left; live with the consequences; we're not bothered if this leads to a hard brexit and WTO rules across the board; we have all the negotiating cards and the experts to manage our interests. No concessions of any kind; all trade-offs will be in our favour.
Johnson and his bunch of second raters want the first but are doing nothing to encourage the EU; in fact their attitude is likely to result in the latter.
In addition, Johnson wants 'good' trade deals with the EU and the US but those two trading blocs don't have an easy relationship with each other and johnson will be squeezed - talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
If trump wins a second term the pressure will really be ramped up.
Other than that, everything's good.
It is in the EU's interests to have a prosperous country as it's neighbour of course. So they aren't trying to knobble us. But there are rules that they cannot break for very obvious reasons. It's that simple.
Caymans on the black list, funny what happens when you don’t have a veto anymore.
The Colin Browning Twitter account must be a parody. It *must* be.
Apparently the airport delays were because it was a staff training day. Nothing to to with brexit in this case.
Still a longer queue in the non EU passports bit tho
I don't care if it takes a bit longer to get through the airport, at least we are now making our own rules and controlling our borders. We are, aren't we?
Worth checking out this thread… if you need a reminder of why the “easiest trade deal in history” is still a bogus proposition…
https://twitter.com/hhesterm/status/1229135300942868481?s=21
In case we didn't know.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51526784.
Okay, I’m saying this yet again. The EU is not making a choice when it says that we can not have the benefits that arise from shared rules unless we follow those shared rules… it is simply a fact… a truth… a truism
It makes no difference how many times anyone states it. Truth is not what motivated/motivates Brexit, neither the political puppet-show we have in place. The game is perfectly rigged.
I'm sure it is just posturing by the French. After all I'm sure I recall this being 'the easiest deal in history'.
Maybe one of the Brexit flag wavers could clarify my memory.
It can still be the easiest deal in history
" we want cake and unicorns"
" you cannot have them"
" we will walk away then"
"bye"
It can still be the easiest deal in history
” we want cake and unicorns”
” you cannot have them”
” we will walk away then”
“ see what the filthy globalist lefty communist foreigners are doing to us? Dunkirk, blabla, Trump, bla bla, we’ll break the EU, we hope it fails with it’s bendy bananas and corrupt filthy unelected beurocrats, no wonder we’re popular. Bla bla ner ner ner, ner”
FTFY
Easiest planned no deal in history. And it will be lapped up by the electorate.
Overton Window has seemingly been bricked-up and instead painted as an abstract meme on a cloud somewhere between Trumping Towers and the Internetz. It may get a refurb/reassessment in a few decades. Maybe not. One thing is certain and that is that populism (like Nationalism) is still catching up with social media (a new hyper-tabloidism) and they fit together like hand-in-glove. I predict much much worse before things begin to turn another corner. This feels more like a dead-end/fait-accompli. I’d dearly love to be wrong.
The French are probably just giving us back about 0.00001% of what we deserve in this outburst. It is not constructive of the guy in question, but if you act like a dick sooner or later someone is going to have a pop back. It might feed the gutter press some more in this country, which is about the extent of any damage it could do.
Nothing, nothing is going to get away from the fact that there is a near perfect inverse relationship between degree of alignment with the EU and the UK’s economic prosperity.
Opt for BRINO and limit the damage or go full **** and invoke an economic catastrophe. Those are the two poles, options exist between but more chest puffing stupidity equals less cash in the kitty. Always was the case, is the case now and always will be.
The best bet would have been staying in the EU, of course, but well.....****s.
and invoke an economic catastrophe
This is not going to happen. Although the steps necessary to avoid it might prove unpalatable for many people still being told by the liars running the government that voting for Brexit was about “keeping our money”, “spending on our priorities”, “controlling our borders and fisheries”, “saving the NHS”… all while “protecting workers rights” and “ever higher standards of environmental protection”. At some point choices will have to be made.
Still a longer queue in the non EU passports bit tho
We were all directed to the EU biometric lines at Alicante airport Saturday. We'll see what happens at the end of the transition period.🤷♂️🤷♂️
Kelvin - no deal is coming I am certain. all this is just preparing the blame game to blame anyone but the tories for the damage it will cause
It’ll either be no deal, or “minimum deal”, and all the chaos and cost that entails, yes. And blame everyone else, of course… goes without saying. The mitigations that follow are still going to be a surprise to people who voted for a better life though.
The mitigations that follow are still going to be a surprise to people who voted for a better life though.
As not one of these has yet explained to me how life will be *better* out of the EU then how can they be ‘surprised’? Surely no matter how bad it gets, this shall simply ensure a near-endless supply of the same old scapegoats with which to fuel the New Dunkirk Spirit of cap-doffing, Spam-worshipping, blaming Johnny-foreigner/‘Marxists’/brown people/The French/uppity feminists/‘academics’ and of course the never-fail emergency ripcord - ‘blame the poor and/or disabled’.
I went through the 'all passports' line at Milan Linate last week, because in amongst the scrum of people I noticed that the EU line was roped off into zig zags but the all passports line went down the side of the zig zags in a straight line and hence was much shorter. The flight had just landed from the EU though so it contained mostly EU and Brits.
Soz,ignore.
As not one of these has yet explained to me how life will be *better* out of the EU then how can they be ‘surprised’? Surely no matter how bad it gets, this shall simply ensure a near-endless supply of the same old scapegoats with which to fuel the New Dunkirk Spirit of cap-doffing, Spam-worshipping, blaming Johnny-foreigner/‘Marxists’/brown people/The French/uppity feminists/‘academics’ and of course the never-fail emergency ripcord – ‘blame the poor and/or disabled’.
It is handy for them that the festering reservoir of prejudice was there all the time for them to tap into.
https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1229714523281641473?s=21
“We don’t need no stinking rules”, or the slightly more nuanced (if still just as deluded), “we will set all our own rules without compromising with any of the big trading blocks or states”, need to meet reality at some point. I fear they will be doing so in our workplaces long before our representatives in government and their Vote Leave handlers and financiers will let themselves be seen to bend to global reality.
Meanwhile, in today's "brexit coming home to roost" news, I fear the wurst.
.
EU in 'No, you can't have what you want' shocker.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
Well, who'd have thunk it? No cake and eating it? Whatever next?
The comments on that BBC article display a truly staggering level of ignorance. Its no wonder we are where we are when people seem to continue to wilfully reject reality in favour of some nationalist pipe-dream of empire
This stood out for me
Boris Johnson has used sausages to further his position in the past (Photo: Getty)
Easiest planned no deal in history. And it will be lapped up by the electorate.
Does look like this, The instant the EU are reneging from Johnson right after we left was a bit like Farage immediately disowning the bus.
When you add in the awkward things like er Gibraltar and the Elgin marbles and the fishing stuff and the instant point blank refusal for some alignment plus the fact they have locked out from further extensions and just the actual limited time in place.
Does make you wonder if the US trade talks are still being conducted in secrecy to be quickly whipped out as the answer to all our problems.
Joris Bohnson has made exactly the same mistake as May. Started with bluster and hardline rhetoric, painted himslef into a corner (to satisfy the right wing nutjobs) and left himself nowhere to go. Any concessions will now send the Brexiteers into meltdown, screaming betrayal. And we all know they must be appeased at all costs. Even if the cost of that is an enormously damaging shock to the countries economy
The months leading up to December will be increasingly farcical as it becomes needlessly confrontational, with Bohnson and co's nationalist posturing leading to the inevitable no deal crash out. They'll try and spin it as the EU's fault, but the blame for this upcoming economic suicide will lie firmly in Westminster.
We presently are being ruled by complete maniacs. But then its easy to act like a madman when you can stroll away from the damage, Cameron style, and leave the little people are left to pick up the pieces
If people think that Boris will hang around any longer than Dave did once the shit hits the fan, they're delusional. Bullied on style, he’ll waltz off, having smashed the place up, leaving the minions to pay for the damage
I don’t think it’s going to be December, I’m sure there’s a mid year point when the eu decide the state of the negotiations around June then they want it ready near end of November.
In or out of the EU it’s always the EU’s fault 🙂
Anyway there’s no such thing as no deal it’s ’Australian Style deal’,they're way ahead of you all and have already starting preparing,mobile concrete barriers and acknowledging the distinct lack of frictionless trade.
Get in early and get the bad news out or rebrand.
They’ll
try tosuccessfully continue to spin it as the EU’s fault, but the blame for this upcoming economic suicide will lie firmly wherever the press and electorate fancy.
ftfy