Cummings doesn’t give a shit either.
I think he does. He is on for a massive payment if he delivers a No Deal.
Slight change of tack, but London 2012 was mentioned earlier in this thread. I was riding a horrible grassy climb on my normal Saturday ride this weekend and the thought about London 2012 just popped into my head randomly. I was on the verge of being properly upset about it.
I know a lot of it was trite flim-flam and a little bit naff at times, but for pity's sake, where did that broadly optimistic and worldly sentiment go?
It seems like London 2012 was an exception rather than a rule. Maybe enjoying it was naive and stupid. Maybe the true Britain has now asserted itself and we are actually just isolationist, backward looking, petty and insular...
My new passport arrived this week, and it was really good to see. By itself the colour of your passport doesn’t matter one bit, but what it symbolises does.
He's absolutely right.
We've replaced a passport colour we freely chose with one originally imposed on us by foreigners, we are holding it up as a celebration of a past which never existed, and we are presenting it as a brexit positive when it was nothing to do with the EU and we could have changed it at any time without leaving.
One thing Cumstains has been very good at is realising how to target individual groups and work out which (often totally incompatible) lies to tell which group. And how to use different channels to keep the lies separate.
This isn't news. It was rampant in the dry run that was the Trump campaign, and throughout the referendum.
I would love someone like Ken Clarke emerge in a Martin Sheen-esque manner from the swamp and do in old Boris. But I can’t see it.
This made me laugh, nice one. On a more sombre note, I'd like a nice colonel Kurtz ending for our lovable old sex yeti. ( I mean living in a remote location in Cambodia accessible only by boat not hacked to death with machetes obviously, )
This isn’t news. It was rampant in the dry run that was the Trump campaign, and throughout the referendum.
Doesn't mean they won't use it again. And again. And again.
It's too easy. Nab data by legal/illegal means, work out who holds what nasty little prejudices they don't admit to in polite company, then pander to those prejudices in a targeted way. If the lies you tell Group A are incompatible with those you tell Group B, then 'so what'? Each group rarely gets to glimpse the other group's lies.
This isn’t news. It was rampant in the dry run that was the Trump campaign, and throughout the referendum.
Trump's team borrowed the strategy from the Nazi Party of the 1930s. If something's wrong in society blame one group over another rather than doing something constructive about.
Doesn’t mean they won’t use it again. And again. And again.
It’s too easy. Nab data by legal/illegal means, work out who holds what nasty little prejudices they don’t admit to in polite company, then pander to those prejudices in a targeted way. If the lies you tell Group A are incompatible with those you tell Group B, then ‘so what’? Each group rarely gets to glimpse the other group’s lies.
Sure, no arguments whatsoever here, that's exactly what's been happening for a few years now.
The shocker is that they get away with it and people keep falling for it. I'd like to hope that, at some point in the next decade or so, it'll come out in the wash and the instigators go to prison for a very long time. But these Teflon bastards are slipperier than greased otter shit so I'll be pleasantly but incredibly surprised if that happens.
Trump’s team borrowed the strategy from the Nazi Party of the 1930s.
The difference is that back then they deployed propaganda to great effect. The same thing happened with Trump / Brexit only modern technology gave them the holy grail - they could deploy propaganda in a manner whereby anyone who might potentially object to it or shine a light on it as lies never even saw it. You cannot fight what you are not aware even exists.
That was the great brekit swindle, you could tell anyone anything you liked with impunity.
The difference is that back then they deployed propaganda to great effect. The same thing happened with Trump / Brexit only modern technology gave them the holy grail – they could deploy propaganda in a manner whereby anyone who might potentially object to it or shine a light on it as lies never even saw it. You cannot fight what you are not aware even exists.
That was the great brekit swindle, you could tell anyone anything you liked with impunity.
This is precisely what I keep saying to people and many still don't get it.
Take your average voter 30 years ago. I would wager they were more likely to watch the news. They were more likely to read newspapers (even biased ones).
What % of voters, particularly ones with busy lives now watch or listen to news?
Biased media has always been there, but even the likes of the Sun and Mail would have been called out for expressing right wing opinion 'A' on page 5 whilst a totally incompatible right wing opinion 'B' appeared on page 7. Even some of the readership would have noticed for themselves.
Now, you can tell lie 'A' to one group and the totally incompatible lie 'B' to another. At the same time. Neither group gets to see the lies targeted at the other. It also then rapidly disappears down their timeline under pictures of burger and chips posted by friends.
No surprise there, another Brexiteer more interested in personal profit than what is good for the country (in his Brexit eyes)
Quelle surprise…
I think it's going to be no deal with a few little agreements fudged but nothing near an actual trade deal.
My God, how did we get here? It's gone from being the apocalyptic/never going to happen option to now being the default and actually preferred option, by some anyway.
A G7 country trading on WTO rules. Beyond mad.
How utterly predictable.
If I subscribe to Singletrack as a print customer, but stop my payments, can I please still receive the paper mag?
You see, I really am one of a kind and thus 'special'.
No?
Well, I'm insulted. How dare you treat a special person like me in this manner.
I'm going to go on every review site I can find and slag you lot off. That'll show you.
A No Deal crashout has always been the outcome most wanted by the ERG headbangers. So they could tear up workers rights, environmental and food standards and privatise the NHS. They just couldn’t say so because there would be no way on earth anyone sane would vote for that.
So they got their “of course we’ll remain in the customs union and the single market” Brexit, then they spent the following years gradually moving the goalposts until they ended up with them in another country.
Australia, apparently.
This has been this country’s insane but inevitable destination for the last four years.
It’s a horrible irony that the person that will ultimately deliver the hardest of hard Brexit doesn’t even believe in any of it, and never did. He was just jealous because Dave got to be PM and he didn’t. And look where it got us?
As for trade deals around the world, every other country will be looking at how Boris is backtracking on everything and reneging on previous promises, and they’re not going to touch us with a barge pole. They know the word or even the signatures of these shysters is worthless as they simply cannot be trusted
Is this what having our cake and eating it looks like?
Seems more like the cake went mouldy, then got smashed into pieces.
Pretty sure the EU were supposed to come begging for a deal because they were so desperate for our trade. Have traitor remoaners ruined it somehow by not having enough bulldog spirit?
we never had the cake to start with, we had a sketchy recipe on a napkin
Have traitor remoaners ruined it somehow by not having enough bulldog spirit?
Definitely. Just not enough patriotism, I'm afraid. If we all pull together, play Land of Hope and Glory really loud and just believe I'm sure those treacherous Europeans will come begging.
A G7 country trading on WTO rules. Beyond mad.
Indeed. Luckily we are trying our best to do something about the 'G7' bit.
The thing is… I know plenty of people who voted for Brexit and are angry about where we have ended up… but not one will except that the path we have taken is the fault of Farrage, Johnson, Gove or any of the bait and switch artists who promised the obviously undeliverable, and then moved to a complete different idea about what Brexit “is” as soon as the mandate for the undeliverable was stolen from ‘the people’.
^^I'm guessing they blame the "intractable" EU?
Some blame other politicians that told them exactly how a vote to Leave would turn out. Others blame people who campaigned for a “measure twice, cut once” vote. They still back the “be positive” salesmen and women, even after getting home and realising the product does nothing they were told it would do.
They still back the “be positive” salesmen and women, even after getting home and realising the product does nothing they were told it would do.
There is a lovely exchange in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Smiley is making his play to Toby Esterhase about how he has been duped.
George Smiley : Ever bought a fake picture, Toby?
Toby Esterhase : I sold a couple once.
George Smiley : The more you pay for it, the less inclined you are to doubt its authenticity.
Loads of Brexies know they've been sold a pup, but if the emotional capital paid before 'the realisation' is too much, then it is unthinkable not to double-down.
This sort of thing is exploited by confidence tricksters. Even when they have nicked Granny's pension they leave her with one potentially precious thing - if no one else knows what has happened no one will judge her and think she has been gullible. Quite often this is enough to silence old Granny.
It is the sort of Machiavellian manipulation that is right up Dom Cum's street. Scheming, shameless shit that he is.
Take a step back and consider the general standard of education in the UK; it's unimpressive.
Using that as a starting point it's hardly surprising that a large number of referendum voters did not make any obvious attempt to educate and inform themselves about the brexit argument; you know - look beyond the screeching headlines and ask...questions.
Newspaper readership has been declining for years; news & current affairs viewer/listener numbers have also been declining for years.
I would suggest that, for the majority, the principal source of news/information has been online - unverified, echo chamber, free of critical thinking, no objectivity, no fact checking; perfectly suited for peddlers of mis/dis-information, for those who can't be bothered and the hard of thinking.
The most brexit supporting areas are, generally, those which have most benefitted from EU investment.
Ignorance is an interesting concept - if you don't or cannot understand the subject, that's one thing - and (sort of) acceptable; if you can't be bothered to understand the subject, that is ignorance.
Those who have peddled the 'EU is bad' myth - farage, johnson, gove - have used this ignorance to pursue their personal and political agendas with absolutely zero respect or regard for others.
I have little doubt that johnson and others have talked contemptuously about the public as they believe they are superior - in every way.
For johnson and the like I wouldn't piss on them if their arses were on fire.
Apparently it's elitist and divisive and insulting to point out stuff like that ^^^^
See also:
On the impact of the referendum the general public were similarly misguided. 63 per cent think that Brexit will reduce immigration, an assurance that the Leave camp have consistently failed to give. Only 25 per cent of people think it will reduce living standards.
14 per cent of people now think that 30 per cent of the UK’s Child Benefit budget is sent to children living overseas. 23 per cent of people think that 13 per cent of it does. The correct figure is 0.3 per cent. It means that almost 49 per cent of the population overestimate the figure by more than 40 times.
84 per cent of people think the UK is in the top three contributors to the EU budget. 23 per cent think it is the single biggest. In fact the UK is in fourth place, behind Germany, which pays 21 per cent, France (16 per cent) and Italy (12 per cent). The UK pays 11 per cent.
Etc etc etc
We live in a nation dominated by the people Scaramucci called 'low information emotional voters' in the US, and apparently we have to be nice to them even though they've screwed everything up while crowing about their 'victory'.
grum - please don't befuddle the minds of those who don't want to know by quoting facts; facts are dangerous - and banned by johnson; even worse when they contain numbers and statistics.
Maths? Nah, not for me.
Brexit, innit.
Wonder how much this cost?
Movable motorway barriers to turn motorways into a lorry park on the M20 when we crash out with no deal. I'm sure it was bought for a bargain price. Brexit just keeps on giving.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53989730
apparently we have to be nice to them even though they’ve screwed everything up while crowing about their ‘victory’
You might even say they were a bit 'snowflakey'.
Easiest deal in history?
The EU negotiator reiterated that a deal must be brokered by the “strict deadline” of the end of next month in order to have it in place for the close of the transition period on December 31.
...
Number 10 acknowledged “it is clear that it will not be easy to achieve” a deal
As the saying went,
Tick. Tock.
They're running the clock down.
Heh. Just realised, that deadline is Halloween.
lorry park on the M20 when we crash out with no deal
Unfortunately the deal that we are negotiating won't do much to prevent lorry parks, at least in the short term. Frictionless trade with the EU is a thing of the past. Customs declarations will now be required regardless of tariffs and quotas being negotiated away.
Luckily, our government of all the talents is on top of things.
Indeed... we only have flavours of hard Brexit as possible outcomes... it's been that way for years now. Whether everyone who voted for the party with an "oven ready deal" understood that is a question for next year... when they're looking for where to place the blame for the inevitable impact of any form of hard Brexit on the companies they work for, and the companies they buy from, and on Northern Ireland's union with the rest of us.
Whether everyone who voted for an “oven ready deal” understood that is a question for next year
We could probably take a wild swing at that answer now.
I know that the British approach to a lot of things is "it'll work itself out, let's put the kettle on". That has not only been taken advantage of by the Brexit bullshitters, it's going to be severely tested in the new year.
Especially when there is no tea on the supermarket shelf.
“We have visibility of the current state of preparedness which as it stands has significant gaps,” the trade groups wrote.
What they really mean is:
"These clowns haven't got a clue what they need to do and in any case it is probably too late now".
I know that the British approach to a lot of things is “it’ll work itself out, let’s put the kettle on”.
And we've seen this all along. "We were alright before we joined, it'll be fine."
Indeed. We were alright before the internet came along... shut it down for all businesses in the UK at the end of the year (leave NI with dial-up speed connections perhaps), and that probably won't transport us back to the glory days of mail order catalogues.
and that probably won’t transport us back to the glory days of mail order catalogues
It might, but it doesn't really make sense to do so when the rest of the world is still using t'internet.
Brexit = screaming "stop the world I want to get off and go back to a largely imaginary past".
The latest ****-wittery in this sorry saga. I’ve done a quite bit of food packaging design in the past. It’s unbelievably complicated. There’s a whole world of legal requirements. For very good reason.
Yet another thing these ‘we’ve had quite enough of experts’ make-it-up-as-you-go-along chancers have failed to even consider but has absolutely enormous implications for us all. ie: food shortages
https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/1301544527858200577?s=21
Yet another thing these ‘we’ve had quite enough of experts’ chancers have failed to even consider but has enormous implications for us all
The Government has been terribly busy making sure that we can all have a good old nationalistic knees up to Rule Brittania and Land of Hope and Glory* at Last Night of the Proms.
Hardly surprising that minor stuff like food labelling has taken a back seat.
*in spite of the fact that none of the Outraged Gammons know the words to them...
things will get shitty, everyone will get used to it, shitty will be normal.
it's what always happens.
I reckon about 1997-2005 was the peak of our current civilisation.
There must be some mistake. I don't remember "food shortages" being part of the Vote Leave campaign.
They called it ‘project fear’. Nowadays it’s known as ‘project best case scenario’
But let’s refer to it as what it is .. ‘project winging it’
Everyone’s about to get a harsh lesson in what happens when you let a gang of opportunistic chancers, none of whom have done a proper days work in their entitled, pampered lives, make it up as they go along, while having zero understanding and how businesses actually function
We are so ****ed!
No one has mentioned the ‘grown ups’ recently, and how they’ll knock heads together and sort all this at the final hour. No real changes for how we trade, no extra delays, costs and bureaucratic burdens for companies that actually want to do ‘real’ business here… rather than move themselves and/or their money and factories to Monaco, France, Singapore, Ireland or where ever else the financial backers of Brexit have shifted to since we voted for what they wanted for those of us left here.
Rich has it right though, people will just put up with shitty for a good few years, with a side portion of blaming foreigners for it all. They won’t care that they made it worse with their own votes and clamouring for a ‘clean break’, they’ll just shrug and say something like, “yeah, it’ll have been just as bad, no worse, if we’d stayed in”, with no real logic to back that up, just a feeling that they honestly believe comes from within… they haven’t been played… oh no.
Food shortages? An added bonus.
For a nation of porkers, less food is good.
Think of the nation's health...
As for the grown-ups, some are hiding silently on the back-benches; others are a bit more vocal in the opposition ranks.
johnson's addictions - drink, drugs, sex - will be his downfall before long; he's clearly lost the plot and resorts to bluff, insults and waffle within seconds of opening his oafish mouth.
But let’s refer to it as what it is .. ‘project winging it’
And the Hard Brexit Mitigation 'Sector' will be booming as a result.
Aka spivs taking a big load of public money, squirrelling it away and then not delivering any tangible benefit.
