MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
The uplands are looking particularly sunny
https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1330988448245805057?s=20
Amazing how the Nissan news is hardly even news
So much so that I have to ask what the Nissan news is...?
So much so that I have to ask what the Nissan news is…?
Rumours that they'll be closing the Sunderland plant with the loss of 7000 jobs although so far it's just rumours, the news (below) is a few days old.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54986195
Who'd have thunk it? Japanese company sets up huge plant in the UK to facilitate access to the EU market via the single market and the customs union, is then told we'll be leaving both.
Erm... ok.... bye then....
There was an article in a German magazine quoting the head of Nissan Europe.
The public gets what the public wants.
The same Andrew Bailey from earlier in the year...
"Bailey, who succeeds Mark Carney as governor next month, said leaving the EU would give Britain the chance to ditch any Brussels red tape which damages the financial sector, while adapting other regulations to better suit the UK."
Not certain how to phrase a comment without going 'oh the posh ones didn't think it would effect them'. But I'm sure a wide range of social classes do the ski season (possibly).
Not certain how to phrase a comment without going ‘oh the posh ones didn’t think it would effect them’. But I’m sure a wide range of social classes do the ski season (possibly).
Cool. Now do summer package holidays - reps, nannies, sports instructors.
Everyone ready to celebrate the 'Festival of Brexit'?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1331146897369796608?s=20
torsoinalake - You were right - My comments were uncalled for. It's shit for everyone. Apologies.
My attitude was clouded by the one Brexitter I know (ski loving, ex army banking lawyer).
dogbone
Full MemberNot certain how to phrase a comment without going ‘oh the posh ones didn’t think it would effect them’. But I’m sure a wide range of social classes do the ski season (possibly).
A wide range of mountain bikers do the summer season...
Thanks Northwind. Another reason it was a stupid comment.
It should also have been 'affect' rather than 'effect'.
What I've done there though is twofold. I've been a grammar pedant but in doing so I have also been a tw*t.
So I am going to apologise for that in this post too.
Now you've got some company in the 'feeling the need to apologise' stakes.
🤔
Another reason it was a stupid comment.
It wasn’t really a stupid comment. There are people who were unaware how ending FoM will effect them and their families… not least because they were promised that it wouldn’t! This includes, but in no way is limited to, well-off families and their young adult kids who in past years would have taken seasonal work in the ski season.
I’ve been a grammar pedant but
There is grammar in there but not as we know it.
Everything is going to be fine after all…
https://twitter.com/welshconserv/status/1331162139592175616?s=21
@dogbone most of my mates that do seasons are mid 30's and are ski/snowboard instructors in the Winter, then climbing/outdoors instructors in the summer. It's a career the ski instructor thing. To be fully qualified in France is essentially a degree level qualification.....not heard/seen what any of them have planned otherwise. None of them are posh though, most are from 'poor Northern towns'.
The other mates I have that do seasons, are in bands......again, none of them are posh....they'll be absolutely ****ed though....genuinely no idea what they'll do. I'd just secured a contact that meant I'd got the option to go out and do month long 'tours' playing apres gigs....I did it last year, and the plan was to do it in January this year as usually I have 0 gigs in January. Oh well, at least my career has been all but wiped out by Covid anyway.
Is that topped with mining slurry, for a more authentic taste?
The Nissan news isn't unexpected. The town over from me here in Holland, their Nissan dealer's been boarded up for a few months now. Probably unrelated, though...
Thanks Tom-B. And yet another reason it was a stupid comment.
Ha I wouldn't sweat it mate, there are a LOT of proper posh kids there acting like bell ends.
At one of my gigs in Alp dhuez last year one of the London Med Schools were having their last night of ski trip party. One kid won an award for spending £700 during the week on champagne. A girl overdosed on pills before we'd even started playing. One of them threw a glass at my head, and then someone else kicked off at me as I was packing up (unsure if the last incident was with one of the med students)
The public gets what the public wants.
That's really not the way to look at it. Firstly, 30% of the people of Sunderland didn't want no deal. Secondly - people aren't very bright, sure, but gloating isn't a good look. Especially when there are innocents in the crossfire.
Probably unrelated, though…
Not entirely… short term pressures on car companies are worldwide due to Covid, and medium term the kind of cars and how we build and buy them are changing everywhere, because of climate change commitments etc. Brexit will be the straw that broke the camel’s back for many UK based factories… but far from the only problem that their owners face.
George Monbiot on the money as usual imo
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/brexit-capitalism
I wouldn't pay much attention to a single German auto magazine article.
That plant is going nowhere in the foreseeable future. It makes Qashqai and Juke which are huge sellers for Nissan. Take away that plant and and there would no cars for the dealers to sell. Yeah you could make it somewhere else but a transfer like that takes years and I've seen no evidence to suggest it.
I wouldn’t pay much attention to a single German auto magazine article.
That plant is going nowhere in the foreseeable future. It makes Qashqai and Juke which are huge sellers for Nissan. Take away that plant and and there would no cars for the dealers to sell. Yeah you could make it somewhere else but a transfer like that takes years and I’ve seen no evidence to suggest it.
Is the correct answer.
Clearly though many on here would like nothing better than it to be true in order to say "see told you so". It's a rather ugly, spiteful attitude to be honest, I'm very much in the remain camp and always will be but at some point a certain level of acceptance of the situation is required. Or else just be bitter for the rest of your life and become the type of person who wishes economic ruin on others to teach them a lesson - that just makes you look worse than a brexit loon.
I suspect there's going to be some kind of deal, the betting sites certainly think a deal is nailed so I've stuck a few quid on no-deal as the odds are so good.
I think there is a fine line between actively wishing bad events on others and wanting them to simply take responsibility for their actions.
I think for those that still see Brexit as an act of self harm it will be very hard to ever accept this outcome. An outcome that will still have terrible effects on this country way after Covid is forgotten.
It's not just at a national level either, people are being hit by Brexit personally as well as through their family.
To expect many people not to take it, well personal, is a big ask.
Nissan at Sunderland can not make a profit with a 10% tariff. They can however make a profit by building in France and selling into the UK.
The x trail move was cancelled and the new hybrid qashqai hybrid put on hold until mid 2021.
The word from inside the Sunderland management team is if there is a no deal there will be a managed decline in production and possibly a UK only production line at best.
They will not build the new hybrid qashqai at Sunderland as margins are even worse on that model.
Looks like the border is going to function smoothly!
That plant is going nowhere in the foreseeable future.
at some point a certain level of acceptance of the situation is required
mrmo
Free Member
Looks like the border is going to function smoothly!
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/24/trial-of-brexit-border-checks-causes-five-mile-lorry-queues-in-kent
^^ lol, that'll have the Brexiteers frothing!
@dogbone no worries.
Ski seasons were the best thing I ever did. Amongst the many things that Brexit is ruining that is one close to my heart.
managed decline in production
If you do something stupid that affects a company's profitability, what do you think that company will do?
Overnight or more gradual, the end point is the same.
Production plants and their workforce are nothing more than numbers on a spreadsheet. The only people who will do well are machine movers like Beck and Pollitzer.
The 5 mile lorry jam in Kent was caused by the French side of the border trialing just one element of their new customs procedures. In the UK the IT systems (surprise surprise!) aren't even ready and nobody knows what the rules will be anyway. And what happened to those 50,000 additional customs staff?
And Boris is still holed up in number 10, banging on about fishing rights
The whole of the world is going to collapse into hysterics on January 1st as the UK 'Takes Back Control' of a lorry park that encompasses the whole south east of England, as the economy goes into freefall.
Whats the betting Rishi's statement today makes no mention of the 'B' word. Let's just carry on and pretend it's all going to be fine.
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1331302190300925958?s=20
Oh - so it was the French holding things up? 😋
Oh – so it was the French holding things up?
Taking control of their border... it's what we voted for.
Oh – so it was the French holding things up?
If posting a gif on here wasn't more difficult than proving Fermat's Last Theorem I would insert one of a gallic-looking chap in a beret and stripy top employing his best gallic shrug.
"It eez what you want, non?"
Buying shares in portaloo companies seems to be the only way forward.
Del
Full MemberOh – so it was the French holding things up
Joking apart, of course that's how it'll be spun but borders work both ways, on one side it'll be us holding things up and on the other it'll be the French. It's literally impossible for it to be otherwise because the new systems are always going to be longer winded.
70 seconds per vehicle is the least significant check imaginable and it's still enough to screw things. Imagine what happens if you want to have actual controls.
If posting a gif on here wasn’t more difficult than proving Fermat’s Last Theorem
I was going to do that ^ but couldn't figure out posting a gif...
Been a while since I checked this thread, but I see many of the anti-brexit people have now moved on from stopping it to hoping it's every bit as bad as they said it would be. No doubt the schadenfreude will make them feel better. The funny thing is that while everyone's waiting for the great unwashed to start wailing about how bad it is and not what they voted for, they'll probably just shrug their shoulders and get on with it. Come the next election I'm pretty sure the popular view will be that brexit is a success, and Boris will be returned again with a landslide.
Don't worry daz. The fact that you are chuffed to bits with it as a Brexiteer yourself can keep me feeling warm inside.
As predicted, not a single mention of the 'B' word by Rishi Sunak today. Like it's not happening. Like it'll all be just fine.
No doubt the schadenfreude will make them feel better.
I can't see anyone, bar the Disaster Capitalists, taking any pleasure from the impending disaster. I can't see many people even having the energy or inclination for a bout of 'we told you so'
Come the next election I’m pretty sure the popular view will be that brexit is a success, and Boris will be returned again with a landslide.
I'll file that one away. Even for you, mate, thats a gem 😉
If I had a euro for every time Binners mentions disaster capitalists, I'd have enough to buy Bulgarian citizenship.. probably...nearly..
I’ll file that one away.
You don't think so? I think you overestimate the ability of the great british public to take a rational objective view on something. Even if it is as bad the FBPE brigade hope it will be the public will still say it was worth it in order to 'have our country back'. Which is bollocks of course, because they won't, all that will have happened is that control of the levers of power will have been transferred from one distant, uncaring elite to another. Also by 2024 the sharper edges will have been ironed out or forgotten about. No one is going to not vote for Boris because there was a traffic jam in Kent.
The whole tone of Sunak's 'bad news' bit today was basically 'it is all down to covid'.
And not one mention by the Beeb that driving off an economic cliff in a little over a month might not be the greatest of ideas what with everything else. And some people have the front to call the Beeb a left wing cabal!
No one is going to not vote for Boris because there was a traffic jam in Kent.
No one will be voting for him then anyway. He's gone by end of march 21 latest.
The fact that you are chuffed to bits with it as a Brexiteer yourself
Sorry to disappoint but my views haven't changed about it being a monumentally stupid idea. I guess I'm a bit more accepting of it though as I at least have some empathy with the people who voted for it. They want those who rule over them to be less distant and more accountable. Which is a good thing, despite the fact that brexit won't deliver that, and once again they'll be shafted as they always are.
I at least have some empathy with the people who voted for it
You're a better man than me.
Empathising is a step towards condoning. I will never condone abject stupidity, especially stupidity stoked by racism and xenophobia.
No doubt the schadenfreude will make them feel better.
Very unlikely.
And find yourself some good British words.
They want those who rule over them to be less distant and more accountable.
Now you’re just mocking people who voted for Brexit. Try not to.
Now you’re just mocking people who voted for Brexit.
How? You think people in Sunderland or Hull don't care about political accountability and effective representation of their interests?
Empathising is a step towards condoning.
And you wonder why they voted as they did.
You think people in Sunderland or Hull don’t care about political accountability and effective representation of their interests?
No. I think, like you do, that the end result of voting for Brexit, and then voting Conservative to deliver Brexit, has resulted in more distant and unaccountable decision making. This government could not be more distant and unaccountable.
Cant speak about Hull but i have a fair view on Sunderland folks.. political accountabilty is not something that registers with many people mainly due to having non historically.
Many remember Sunderland ship builders and full well paid employment in the 60s and early 70s - Nissan and all the supporting businesses took up some of that slack but not all. They want those days back, Brexit vote was no more than two fingers to the establishment- many in that community will suffer because of it but i am sure they know this. It is a form of vandalism or constructive destruction and they are happy to xause others problems because they are unhappy. I have said before there is a huge sense of entitlement in these communities- i know this as i still circulate in parts of it.
This will get worse.
The other issue that i think people dont get about the likes of Sunderland and Blyth is the drop from a well paid job to minimum wage job is not great typically less than 4k after tax per annum, allief to the fact that property and rents are often cheap and bear in mind these communities have been through Thatcherism and they can happily survive on "nowt" so the impact of brexit is not potentially that massive - its the lower middle class with big mortgages PCPs and kids in Uni that cant stand the drop.
oldman - I cut my ties with my home town of Wallsend many years ago but have absolutely no doubt that the attitudes you ascribe to Sunderland apply equally.
The BBC don't dare mention the 'B' word.
In other news:
The governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, warned earlier this week that the long-term negative impact of a no-deal Brexit on the UK economy would be more severe than the pandemic.
Th UK is double shafted, but no one dare talk about the bigger issue that we actually have some control over, if we so choose. Even the Chancer chancellor
Why does the idea of a Festival of brexit make me think of this
Yeah, the Festival of Brexit. Wow, eh?
What a shining example of a positive world outlook for the future that will be.
Empathising is a step towards condoning.
No it's not.
Empathy leads to understanding, and understanding leads to wisdom.
bear in mind these communities have been through Thatcherism and they can happily survive on “nowt” so the impact of brexit is not potentially that massive – its the lower middle class with big mortgages PCPs and kids in Uni that cant stand the drop.
I said something similar on the original brexit thread and was called an appeaser. Even now it's pretty illustrative that the people still banging on about brexit are middle class metropolitan types. They don't realise that people in places like Sunderland don't give a shit. They've been through worse, and never really recovered so one more knock makes little difference, but they know it makes a difference to the chattering classes who are worried they may not be able to retire to the Dordogne in their dotage.
I cut my ties with my home town of Wallsend many years ago but have absolutely no doubt that the attitudes you ascribe to Sunderland apply equally.
My folks still live not far from Wallsend (near Killingworth) and I go up regularly (less so this year for obvious reasons) and can confirm it's the same. They haven't changed their mind, and they won't be surprised or particularly angry when they're disappointed again. They expect to be shafted, because they always are. If remainers are waiting for some sort of epiphany in these places where everyone suddenly realises they were wrong and changes their mind they're going to be very disappointed.
The world will keep turning, lost jobs will be replaced by new ones, normal life will be much the same, traffic jams in Kent will be long forgotten, and in a few years brexit will be seen as a roaring success for no other reason that it happened and nothing much changed in the lives of people at the bottom.
If think you managed to patronise absolutely everyone there, well done.
http://kordon.sfs.gov.ua/en/home/countries/pl/o no one will ever notice 12hour queues to get out of the UK.
Even now it’s pretty illustrative that the people still banging on about brexit are middle class metropolitan types.
I can assure you than I and many people I know personally do not fit into that criteria.
Also I think that anyone thinking things cannot get worse for them might be in for one hell of a shock.
Also I think that anyone thinking things cannot get worse for them might be in for one hell of a shock.
How do things get worse if you're on the dole with no hope of a job or a minimum wage zero hours gig worker with no means of escape? You're not doing much to counter my suspicion that many remainers have switched to wanting it to be as disastrous as possible. I do agree it could be much worse, but many in places like Sunderland will just shrug their shoulders as they've never known any different.
How do things get worse if you’re on the dole with no hope of a job or a minimum wage zero hours gig worker with no means of escape?
Quadruple whammy of benefit cuts, public service cuts, fewer jobs and lower wages.
Who do you think will be made to pay for Brexit? The same people that are always made to pay when the economy is hit.
And that’s before the “accountable less distant” UK government gets on with lowering standards and removing rights.
How do things get worse if you’re on the dole with no hope of a job or a minimum wage zero hours gig worker with no means of escape? You’re not doing much to counter my suspicion that many remainers have switched to wanting it to be as disastrous as possible.
As someone likely to be affected by the negative impact of Brexit, just as many others will, I certainly do not wish the impact on anyone. That said, people from both sides of the spectrum need to realise that there are consequences to their actions and inactions, in regard to Brexit, general elections or even their approach to Covid.
As for the people on the dole or zero hour contracts, at the moment there is still a modicum of help available if only in health terms and a semblance of social care. Much of the financial help has been cut to the bone but unless someone is living on the street, without even a pitiful amount of benefits they absolutely have something to lose.
I suspect homeless is likely to increase further as it has during Austerity V1.0 and will simply be a more visible sign of economic social collapse.
Do I wish for people you endure that? Of course I don't. Frankly that's rather insulting.
Whats the betting Rishi’s statement today makes no mention of the ‘B’ word. Let’s just carry on and pretend it’s all going to be fine.
The bit I don't get is there wasn't even an acknowledgement of the stuff that is fact and caused by us leaving the SM & CU - known known's.
As for the people on the dole or zero hour contracts, at the moment there is still a modicum of help available if only in health terms and a semblance of social care. Much of the financial help has been cut to the bone but unless someone is living on the street, without even a pitiful amount of benefits they absolutely have something to lose.
But until it occurs, they won't know (nor care). This is how we got into this mess IMO.
No wonder Rishi 'forgot' to mention the 'B' word yesterday. The governments own forecasts are saying any form of Brexit will knock 4% off GDP, with no deal adding a further 2% on top of that.
Its going to take a bit more than a cut in the foreign aid budget to compensate for that
Its utter *ing madness that we're going to go ahead with this monumental act of self harm in the present financial climate. We are being governed by complete *ing lunatics. But then they won't be paying the price, will they? Its us mugs who will.
https://twitter.com/StephenMangan/status/1331873622609321984?s=20
Its going to take a bit more than a cut in the foreign aid budget to compensate for that
That move isn't about the money... it's so that when the pay freezes (real term wage cuts) and benefit cuts (housing benefit + UC etc) for the poorest that were announced yesterday sink in, a good percentage of those hit will think that "at least we're not sending that money abroad"... some people just want a balance of being smacked by the tories, and the tories smacking others.
That move isn’t about the money… it’s so that when the pay freezes (real term wage cuts) and benefit cuts (housing benefit + UC etc) for the poorest were announced yesterday sink in, a good percentage of those hit will think that “at least we’re not sending that money abroad”… some people just want a balance of being smacked by the tories, and the tories smacking others.
That ^^ plus a bit of dead cat distraction as well. Look, we've saved some money from the nasty forriners, never mind about the billions we've been squirelling away to our mates.
The Daily Mail will love it.
How do things get worse if you’re on the dole with no hope of a job or a minimum wage zero hours gig worker with no means of escape?
Easy. The chances of things getting better get slashed. Which is what's going to happen.
Although ironically if it results in a political shift it might actually help.
How do things get worse if you’re on the dole with no hope of a job or a minimum wage zero hours gig worker with no means of escape?
do you have a roof, healthcare and benefits? If so it can get far worse. Worth understanding how poor laws worked, or US healthcare provision. For the vast majority who think life is crap, it might be, but it can get far worse. Life isn’t fair, it never has been and never will be. Trying to take everyone down will never take those at the top down, it just screws the middle and bottom.
The bit I don’t get is there wasn’t even an acknowledgement of the stuff that is fact and caused by us leaving the SM & CU – known known’s.
Don't be puzzled by this. A lot of people still think anything is a 'price worth paying' and, from what I can tell, many of them are the ones who are going to be worst hit.
From the tory point of view why rock the boat now. Their mates (who will look after them when they are out of office) are soooooo close to the ultimate heist they can taste it.
So in the post Brexit world we are going to ensure our place at the High Table by increased military spending rather than foreign aid.
Which to be fair is how we got our Empire in the first place.
Daz is back banging on about empathy again? Is this the same guy who was preaching empathy for brexiters before the last election , and when Labour's 'strategy' got Corbyn his arse handed to him, turned round and said '**** 'em' (TBF I paraphrase)? Much wailing and gnashing of teeth iirc. No doubt we'll be getting called revisionists shortly.
I think brexit is a colossal act of self-harm but these days I can't raise much blood pressure about it beyond a shrug. There's no way back. We're screwed. There's nothing I can really do to help the turkeys that voted for this Christmas either. I just hope my little bit of the world doesn't have the wheels fall off too badly now. Keep my head down and deal with what's in front of me. That's about it. Hey ho.
Oh, for balance, the 4%/6% Brexit hit to the economy was mentioned a couple of times on PM on 4 last night.
I see that the Govester (as Boris doubtless refers to him) is getting his excuses in early.
Brexit: Blame EU ‘rules are rules’ approach if there is border chaos, Michael Gove says
The upcoming chaos at the border is definitely not his fault. Despite him being in charge of planning for the new border arrangements. Because as we all know, NOTHING is the fault of the Brexiteers. Its all the pesky EU
His argument seems to be that by actually enforcing border controls (or as we could also refer to it: Taking Back Control) instead of just waiving them, because the UK still has its thumb up its collective arse and hasn't sorted anything, they're being unreasonable.
