what i thought i heard last night was that 1 in 4 pensioners have a million in assets! I’d imagine the prime Brexit stock won’t be as worried as the young.
1 in 4? Seems a little high to me.
I'd take YouTube/Google over Twitter at present:
compared with Musk.
Seems a little high to me.
Seems really high up here. Doubt the picture looks the same in Surrey.
I’d take YouTube/Google
I’ll post YouTube links where I can then, just for you. Personally I think it’s the most damaging player on the internet within our political and social landscape… but all the big social media players are tainted, so it’s lose lose either way, as far as I can see. Twitter is getting worse by the day though, so I might be behind the times and will be agreeing with you before the week is out, once I’ve read more and caught up.
Some of us have given up clicking Twitter links since Musk bought it, Kelvin. There are alternative ways to get news:
Go yourself Edukator, that’s exactly the insight and moral high ground we need to highlight on a Brexit thread
Brexit has failed to deliver any notable economic benefits, more than six years after the vote to leave the EU, David Davis has admitted. - Rob Merrick, Independent.
Ah when we rejoin the eu what will be the the be the greatest benefit you miss from Brexit 🙂
I’ll be honest, I’m not paying much attention to Brexit at the minute, there’s nothing that will change until Pro Brexit politicians get heavily defeated in a general election.
Beyond wanting to drive immigrants back into the sea, what are Brexiteers proposing at the minute to actually make the U.K. a prosper economically?
Treasury minister failed to name a single Brexit benefit after being put on the spot in the House of Commons - Bloomberg.
Andrew Griffith said the Prime Minister and the Chancellor were right to reaffirm "we must never go back" and pursue a relationship with Brussels that "relies upon alignment with EU laws".
Alignment benefits us all. Being isolationist out of dogma rather than any practical benefit is where the UK is, for now… depressing. Doubly so for the people of NI.
They’re proposing what they’ve always proposed
What they like to refer to as ‘a bonfire of red tape’ which is holding back Britannia Unchained
Which in reality means tearing up workers rights, environmental protections, food standards etc in a race to the bottom
This is an article of faith for Rees Mogg and chums, who want to completely deregulate pretty much everything and make the UK a tax haven with a sweatshop attached.
Now they know the next election is already as good as lost, expect them to massively escalate this to try and make everything irreversible
Absolutely stunning hypocrisy on show once again here. Really, you couldn't make this **** up.
Ex-minister Owen Paterson is taking the UK government to the European Court of Human Rights over a standards watchdog verdict that he broke lobbying rules.
Mr Paterson, a leading Eurosceptic who once campaigned for the UK to break away from the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), argues that the standards watchdog ruling "damaged his good reputation".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63714944
TLDR : UK no longer in the top ten of trading partners for Germany. Turns out that it’s been far easier for Germany to refocus trade and reorganise supply chains away from the UK than it is for UK to turn away from Germany.
They don’t need us more than we don’t need them
Well, that's what happens when you make yourself more difficult to deal with. Doing so with no decent reason why is just nuts. But here we are.
The UK will be de facto back in the EU in ten years, just with a far inferior arrangement to what we had pre-2021. The ongoing self harm will be minimised over time, but never fully reversed (or the lost ground recovered). It is just a hideous national balls up.
saucemerlin
Free MemberThe UK will be de facto back in the EU in ten years, just with a far inferior arrangement to what we had pre-2021. The ongoing self harm will be minimised over time, but never fully reversed (or the lost ground recovered)
And one of the really crap things is, people will never really beleive that the lost ground wasn't recovered. Just look at the period after the financial crisis for proof of that- britain's economy never recovered that lost ground, but most people have been convinced that a return to growth is a sign of good health, while other economies did so much better. And then, 10 years on, people thought that outperforming germany by .1% for a month was success, while not looking at the 10 and 20 year trends.
It'll be the exact same here, coming out of recession into weak growth will be proclaimed as a great victory
coming out of recession into weak growth will be proclaimed as a great victory
See recipe for boiled frog.
I'll just leave this from the ft here...
^^^
Investment is deterred by uncertainty. Not all, but, on average, some. How can you invest in something where the wider trading arrangements are uncertain - or certain and less advantageous (as they almost always will be with Brexit as the EU is a free trade area)?
Project Fear?
Project Entirely Reasonable Concerns About Totally Predictable Clusterfudge.
Had an interesting conversation about Brexit on Saturday with a friend who was quite pro Brexit. He obviously isn't now. He was ranting about the lies that were told and I pointed out to him that many of us saw through the lies. He then had the good grace to admit he'd believed the lies, took a lot to admit that. Just need a few more people to accept they were duped.
Project fear seems to have turned into project best case.
Project Fear?
LOL the fault of not believing in unicorns
Trouble is that the charlatans who caused all this have had their fun, made their quick bucks and have now sloped off and left the rest of us to deal with ‘Project Reality’
Binners - do you think Starmer right to rule out any real efforts to be closer to the EU and to state that joining the single market would have no benefit?
Brexit is an ongoing process. Stopping further divergence for the sake of it is step one. And essential for NI.
to state that joining the single market would have no benefit?
He didn't actually say that, I think something along the lines of that's not the instant answer to our current low productivity etc. Of course rejoining the common market is key to longer term growth but it still can't be said in public. We have some distance to move before we can talk sensible politics again.
Anyway he's upset the SNP so he's doing something right, any suggestion of devolving further powers reduces the argument for independance.
No, at this stage, I don’t think it would. And there’s no case for going back to the EU, or going back into the single market.
I do think there’s a case for a better Brexit. I do think there’s a very strong case for making Brexit work.
Pure nonsense
I’m hoping that this is the case…
Starmer is leading a slow march towards a softer Brexit — he just won’t say it out loud
Wishful thinking IMO
We need CU and SM at a minimum and he will not countenance free movement so any softer brexit is just wishful thinking.
There’s no point telling me that. I know.
Whatever arrangements we end up with, it’ll take decades to get to somewhere sensible
But I think a starting point is having a government that isn’t openly and belligerently confrontational with the EU. I’m sure a Labour victory would also be greeted with a sigh of relief around Europe as it would mean having some grown ups to deal with instead of a party of Faragists
CU and/or SM are not happening this decade. Not for the whole UK anyway. Putting the brakes on divergence, and agreeing more equivalence agreements and removals of barriers with the EU starting 2024 is the only game in town. Either that or go with the Tories plans to embed us in customs agreements and standards harmonisations with far flung territories that we won’t gain much trade off the back of, all to make such accommodations with the SM & CU countries on our doorstep in future much more difficult.
Croatia will bring the Euro zone up to 20 members on 1/1/2023. Almost a pity that the Euro doom mongers of the forum are no longer around to celebrate it. 😉
France Inter used the good news to give Brexit and the UK economy a thorough kicking this morning.
Ooh. Seeing this thread pop back up reminded me.
Have we done this yet? £200k given to a charity run by ex-military, who normally specialise in humanitarian relief, to make similar provision for lorry drivers stuck in Kent.
What a shitshow.
I have reopened this to get it on the right thread
Brexit is NOT over no matter how much labour supporters want to pretend it is
1) even the tories don't think its over. there is still the issue of the "bonfire of red tape" ie the ending of all EU related laws to be debated in parliament an that is setting up to be a real parliamentary battle
2) There is still a load of trouble to come over the NI protocol
3) Its going to be an issue in the next election no matter how much labour try to pretend its not. Other parties will make sure it is and the broadcasting rules on "balance" mean the pro rejoin case will be made an heard especially given the 3rd and 4th largest parties in the commons are pro rejoin
4) Reform are going to be standing probrexit candidates in every constituency they say - again that shows just how much its not over.
5) we still have the issue of queueing trucks and the UK is in breach of the withdrawal agreement and are facing action from the EU over these breaches.We have not got the customs infrastructure in place yet and if / when we do its going to cause even more trade disruption
6) Brexit has increase costs, lost tax returns and lost growth for the UK and that is going to remain an issue
The thing I would like all of you who support the labour brexit party to explain how you / they are going to "make brexit work"
No
Hi TJ
Nice work reopening the echo/ego chamber.
They can't. Labour's position is "we're going for the deluded rancid bigot vote and there's no one else credible to vote for so suck it up, losers."
It is depressingly predictable that (assuming they win) they will spend a few years tearing themselves apart over this nonsense, leaving the floor clear for a new nasty populist tory party to sweep to power again on the basis of racist rhetoric and inane slogans.
I'm just going to copy and paste my explanation of why 'making Brexit work' is impossible from the Mick Lynch thread.
The Balkan states have given up sovereignty to the EU by being members of the CEFTA and most seem keen to give up more in order to become full members. Turkey has given up some sovereignty in order to join with the EU in a Customs Union. Russia is a good example of a country that has ceded no sovereignty to the EU.
Making Brexit work is going to mean giving up sovereignty to the EU. There is no other way.
That means rejoining. Whether we go the whole way and become full a EU member, or join the Customs Union, or the Single Market, or come up with a free trade agreement. They all entail giving up sovereignty and ‘joining’ to a greater or lesser extent.
Brexit is sovereignty as we are constantly told. Brexit cannot be made to work.
A load of folk on here seem to buy labours nonsense about "making brexit work"
I'd love to hear how this is going to happen.
The hard core brexiteers will take a while to let it go
But another 4 years and SM membership will be being worked out.a
I think both parties will have it in their manifeato by the following GE in 2028/29
Take a long time to reverse the damage
https://twitter.com/DominicPenna/status/1612087099519389698?t=Vpx84Cud3XtF7ORvYJuopA&s=19
In a game of political predictions I wouldn’t put my money on, I reckon it’ll be a Tory government that takes the U.K. back into the single market. It’ll be hilarious but there you go… 😀
“making brexit work”
If you mean "a better deal than we had as EU members before we left"... then it's not happening. It wouldn't even happen if we rejoined as full members. There will always be a cost to Brexit now. If you mean abandoning the "diverge from Europe and align with the USA instead, despite that making no economic or social sense"... well that's easier. Our deals/relationships with the EU and the rest of Europe can be vastly improved on by agreeing to keep alignment with the EU, and accept reciprocation and equivalence are in our interest, as other nonEU European countries do.
Are either of those "making brexit work" ie all those advantages we are supposed to get from brexit? Or are they just mitigating the damage?
to me "make brexit wiork" means we will be better off after brexit than before. That was the lie sold
So labour supporters - how do labour intend to " make brexit work"
Brexit is NOT over no matter how much labour supporters want to pretend it is
Watch how you say things. That looks like a deliberate attempt to wind people up. I don't think most Labour voters are happy about Brexit, and The New Statesman seems to think that too.
There might be a few Labour voters on here who want to move on, but I don't think they are the majority. You don't seem to understand the precarious position that Labour will always be in from now on - it relies for support on very different groups - some of whom are leavers. Starmer is being pragmatic, in my view and that of this guy.
Why are we having this conversation yet again?
Brexit will not work in the way it was supposed to, by improving our national position - everybody knows that. The phrase is meaningless, whichever idiot spouts it.
How we move forward from the shitshow we are left in is the question that needs to be addressed by the various political parties. Whether they want to pretend that it is "making Brexit work" to try and appease the Brexiteers is up to them and their focus groups.
