Lord Frost, the UK’s chief Brexit negotiator, who was wearing union jack socks.
Normally the Brexies accuse the EU of trying to walk all over Britain. This time the EU can accuse the Brexies of actually walking all over Britain.
#FrostABitThick
#FrostABitThick
He doesn't give a shit, though, does he? He's set for life as are all the current cabinet of no-hopers who would be nowhere near top jobs if it wasn't for Brexit.
The heist of a lifetime.
As a legislator, Raab will understand that laws can be changed…
He didn’t even understand the significance of the English Channel in travel and trade between Britain and Europe!
You seem to think there is some hierarchy of understanding here. This government understands how to change the law and the constitution well enough, and they are going about changing them to suit their agenda. I don't see any misunderstanding on their part in this respect. [Mis]understanding is a multi-dimensional kind of thing, much like incompetence.
They can change ‘the law’ in a way that kills an international treaty. But there are consequences. He doesn’t understand the consequences. And nor does he care who they effect.
The people elected a government whose primary manifesto promise was this deal. Where is the respect for the will of the people now?
I think this is all a confection for internal consumption anyway. Like Bolsonaro, Trump, Modi, or Orbán, Johnson does best with his electorate by inventing confrontations and culture war fronts to attract attention and have government performance go unscrutinised. If the EU yielded and solved the NI Protocol "problems" (which they almost certainly won't), the UK would simply invent another confrontation and claim victimhood again.
I've noticed people in the areas of Ireland close to the border start to ramp up pressure against denormalisation of the situation along the border, but that currently is almost certainly where this is headed sooner or later.
zomg
Free MemberThe people elected a government whose primary manifesto promise was this deal. Where is the respect for the will of the people now?
That's how manifesto promises work- you can instantly abandon half of them but if anyone challenges any of the ones you actually want to deliver then it's the Will Of The People And Must Not Be Opposed.
That’s how manifesto promises work- you can instantly abandon half of them but if anyone challenges any of the ones you actually want to deliver then it’s the Will Of The People And Must Not Be Opposed.
That's actually a really interesting dynamic... and I think it's mostly due to the yarn that is spun to the general public.
Lib dems in a minority coalition with the conservatives = traitors for agreeing with the conservatives over university fees.
Conservatives in full control = they are just trying thier best under difficult circumsances.
It's all about the narrative.
Also handy that tomorrows headlines will be all about plucky Boris 'standing up against the euro bullies' rather than 'Boris misses his lockdown deadline' (and questions about exactly why we didn't change India's status earlier...)
All they’re bothered about is tomorrow’s headlines. They’re stoking up conflict at every opportunity to cover for their own ineptitude.
And because these overprivileged half-wits have never faced any consequences for their actions it’s all just a game.
Unfortunately they’re treating the whole Northern Ireland/Good Friday Agreement so flippantly that I think it’ll take the first bomb on the mainland before they wake up to what they’ve destroyed.
Here’s what the Brexiteers really think
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1403273485288448001?s=21
The beauty of it all is… nothing needs solving if chaos and division are your means of achieving popularity. Everything Johnson and his fellow travellers break is just another opportunity to drum up support. The more that goes wrong, the more they can use their tools to fan the flames of the fires that keep them warm and toasty in power, while others get burnt. They don’t care. They can’t lose. The UK can burn.
The UK can burn.
I think it will. There's no way back from this now, not without a wholesale change of Government, media and the mindset of most of the population.
We've pissed off almost all of Europe with our childish antics, tantrums, stupidity, incompetence, bluster and "pride", ****ed up every single treaty and benefit that we had from being in the EU, managed to destabilise the Union, upset America - that might not have mattered quite as much if Trump had got a second term but there's an adult in the White House now.
Most of it is being disguised by Covid and some blame-game work. I give it about 2 years for the realities of Brexit to actually start to hit home for *everyone* because at the moment, while there are plenty of people very hard hit, there's enough nationalistic flag-shaggery going on to mask a lot of it as "a price worth paying" or "the nasty EU...."
When (not if) Northern Ireland dissolved into violence and sectarian conflict again (my money is on next month) it’ll coincide with the launch of a trade war with the EU.
It’ll work out perfectly for them. They can point and say “look what THEY caused!”
And the flag-waving meatheads will lap it up. Then they get the never-ending conflict that will keep them in power. The collateral damage will be huge, but the couldn’t give a flying ****!
Hartley Brewer is just saying what the English Nationalists think. Give NI back to Ireland and **** the loyalists. It gets rid of a major headache for them. They'll soon start whingeing, though, if an organised loyalist terror campaign finds its way onto English soil - which it will surely do due to the political aim of such a campaign.
Marching season or 'Non Freedom Day' on the 21st. Both would be enough to worry any 'normal' government, but not this one. Mainly because Dom Cumstains showed them that a good enough majority of the electorate have got shit for brains and would worship a pile of dig turd if it had a plaggy union jack shoved into it. 🤷♂️
And, of course our plucky lads* dealt out a convincing one-nil thrashing of 1/6 of Yugoslavia today, so **** yeah, we are THE MAN.
*And we're so proud of them (except if the darker complexioned ones start getting uppity about racial abuse).
🇬🇧🍆💦🇬🇧
They’ll soon start whingeing, though, if an organised loyalist terror campaign finds its way onto English soil – which it will surely do due to the political aim of such a campaign.
But a return to the old ways, whether on the i of I or the mainland is easy to condemn and it's true, bombing innocent people or places is not right. They can then condemn it and the outrage covers up for the fact that it is entirely predictable.
They can then condemn it and the outrage covers up for the fact that it is entirely predictable.
The fact that it would be being perpetrated by people who would otherwise be more rabidly pro-Brexit (or at least the sentiment behind it) should be a cause of acute embarrassment for a traditional tory government.
But as this is not a Tory government (it is an English Nationalist one) they will just be able to tell their thicko followers that the NI Loyalists are just another bunch of troublesome forriners and it'll all be golden.
Unfortunately they’re treating the whole Northern Ireland/Good Friday Agreement so flippantly that I think it’ll take the first bomb on the mainland before they wake up to what they’ve destroyed.
I said the same thing a few weeks back on this thread and got a PM from someone saying it'll never happen. Good to see someone else say the same thing as I've been watching this all unfurl since and sadly see nothing to change my opinion. Any bomb that goes off will be directly traceable to what Boris and Co are doing right now and any blood spilled will be equally on their hands. But sadly
It’ll work out perfectly for them. They can point and say “look what THEY caused!”
And the flag-waving meatheads will lap it up. Then they get the never-ending conflict that will keep them in power. The collateral damage will be huge, but the couldn’t give a flying ****!
I don't see a decent way out of this mess.
They’ll soon start whingeing, though, if an organised loyalist terror campaign finds its way onto English soil – which it will surely do due to the political aim of such a campaign.
I would have thought they would be more likely to go for Dublin. It would be kinda hard to demand to be loyal servants of the crown whilst blowing the shit out of London. That said the Pieds-Noirs managed something similar for France.
The loyalists have never come across as overly competent though so might get London by mistake.
AD
Full MemberAlso handy that tomorrows headlines will be all about plucky Boris ‘standing up against the euro bullies’ rather than ‘Boris misses his lockdown deadline’ (and questions about exactly why we didn’t change India’s status earlier…)
Close but... You talk about that as if it's to deflect from criticism, especially about India. And it should be, in a slightly saner world.
But the other thing is, the distraction will mean more people simply carry on- there'll be less of it in the news, both headlines and detail, and every little bit of distraction means more people doing what they think they're allowed to do even if they're not. And god do this government love that. "Alas, people are breaking the rules and that's why the numbers have gone up". Not "our announcements were vague and contradictory and misleading".
That said the Pieds-Noirs managed something similar for France.
I'm struggling with the comparison here, you need to explain. If the comparison is valid you can expect the repatriation of 700 000 orange men women and children to mainland UK this year.
a slightly saner world
Which doesn't exist in the UK since June 2016.
They’ll soon start whingeing, though, if an organised loyalist terror campaign finds its way onto English soil – which it will surely do due to the political aim of such a campaign.
I can't see that happening. The DUP and the rest of the loyalists seem to have the most extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome I've ever seen. They're like an abused and beaten wife who keeps going back for more, convincing themselves he won't do it again.
No matter how many times Boris and the Brexiteers lie to them, casually dismiss their concerns and metaphorically beat the shit out of them, acting against all their interests, their ingrained sectarian instincts send them back for more.
They'll blame the EU and Dublin instead, which is going to make for a lively old summer as decades of peaceful progress is thrown under the Brexit bus
All they’re bothered about is tomorrow’s headlines. They’re stoking up conflict at every opportunity to cover for their own ineptitude.
George Orwell was all like:
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
and
By weakening strength and independence of public minds, and forcing them to live in a continuous state of propaganda-induced terror
<sigh>
I don’t see a decent way out of this mess.
I can see a decent way, but not a quick way, like a generation away before it happens.
I don’t see a decent way out of this mess.
I do. It's the same way we got into this mess. Pretend it doesn't exist, and when that fails then blame foreigners. It's not our fault, it's THEM, you see? We warned you about THEM.
Fixed. Easy. Pint at t'spoons then, lads?
George Orwell was all like:
In unrelated news, I hear that the Earth has recently taken on a slightly eccentric orbit.
It's Orwell spinning in his ****ing grave.
Fixed. Easy. Pint at t’spoons then, lads?
Only if you wear your union jack socks.
Fixed. Easy. Pint at t’spoons then, lads?
Having just got back from the Lakes, the places you're going to be able to have a pint is going to be severely limited by which pubs can actually get any staff.
I know its absolutely ****ing hilarious that Tim Weatherspoons bloke can't staff his drinking caves as there are no EU immigrants to pour pints of Fosters. But some of the pubs up in the Lakes actually owned by reasonable human beings are still shut because they can't get any staff at all, and a lot of the businesses that can open are running at reduced opening times due to staff shortages. The strain Brexit is now putting on sectors of the economy that were reliant on migrant labour is huge and only going to get worse.
Brexit... the gift that just keeps on giving
If the people who own or run those pubs close them up and get other jobs, they will stay closed, and we'll be in the bizarre position of losing businesses and places to eat and drink whilst having strong employment.
Doesn't a labour shortage drive inflation?
A problem with staffing all over Europe in tourist areas such as the Lakes is that there is nowhere for poor people to live. There was a report on La Clusaz in the Alps. There was no work last year so the few flats that used to be rented to low-paid workers were sold to outsiders who'll use them a couple of weeks/months a year. The town is having to build social housing because it realises that's the only way that the low-paid will find anywhere to live and without them the town will become an unserviced dormitory.
Same on the Basque Coast, Arcachon, the south coast. When all property in an area is sold to the rich there's nowhere for the poor to live so they leave. Housing stress leads to a dirth of cheap labour anywhere, not just in Brexit Britain.
A problem with staffing all over Europe in tourist areas such as the Lakes is that there is nowhere for poor people to live.
While that’s true. It’s not the point. A paucity of affordable homes is nothing new for the Lake District, Cornwall or wherever. A serious lack of workers because of the double whammy of Brexit and the pandemic is. I know a lot of people in the tourist industry in the highlands of Scotland, and the reliance on EU workers (and people from further afield) there is huge, and the problems being thrown up by them being made unwelcome won’t be solved any time soon.
Maybe the people who were always complaining about them 'coming over here, taking our jobs' could go and do all those jobs instead, now that they've got what they wanted
The pandemic has created a housing boom in rural areas. People are leaving town in search of nice evironments to work from home. There have been record numbers of transactions here with relatively rich people from the big cities buying into areas with limited supply leading to rapid price rises. The workers who used to live there quit their accomodation to return to parents (and yes, the EU) because they could no longer pay the rent. The owners sold into the booming market and the accomodation is lost to the poor workers who can't return as there's nowhere they can afford to live. That has as much or more to do with the pandemic that Brexit.
Another factor is the demand for lobour in the EU. There's a dirth of people to fill the kind of jobs EU people used to do in the UK. During the pandemic people from the hospitality and entertainment sectors found or created alternative employment. There has been an enormous turnover in the labour market here in Europe. Hotels and Bars nedd staff here and are having to provide better pay and conditions which make the UK less attractive, and Brexit of course. But the big change over the last year has been the pandemic and its impact on housing and labour markets.
Housing stress leads to a dirth of cheap labour anywhere, not just in Brexit Britain.
Not if you stick a township just out of view of the main road, behind a hill perhaps, and definitely in the shittest location in the vicinity. Then make the residents work in the rich bit, but only let them in if they can produce a pass to show they have a job there.
Piece of piss - just ask Hendrik Verwoerd.
Maybe the people who were always complaining about them ‘coming over here, taking our jobs’ could go and do all those jobs instead, now that they’ve got what they wanted
Not *those* jobs though, they just wanted *them* to not be *here* unless they want a cold beer serving or the bed making in a hotel, *those* jobs are ideal for *someone* else in the UK, just not for *me* personally, only *them*, but not the *forriener* them, our *them*.
and the problems being thrown up by them being made unwelcome won’t be solved any time soon.
This raises a good point. If you had choice of a country to go and work and settle in, even if the UK did the biggest u-turn ever in policy, the trust in the politicians not to change mind again and our citizens to 'be nice' has eroded, evaporated even.
Even if you could reassure the workers, there's a charge/tax/fine for the employers to pay for the sin of employing a foreigner (unless they're Irish). I still find it maddening how willing we are to accept this as normal.
[ EDIT: That's on top of the fees for Visas, the cost of the Sponsor Licence, paying the Immigration Health Surcharge on top of the normal NI and income tax, etc etc. ]
The DUP and the rest of the loyalists seem to have the most extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome I’ve ever seen
I think the DUP are fast becoming irrelevant. A couple of years of overplaying their hand at Westminster have seen them loose an awful lot of good will amongst loyalists. See them giving way to SF over the Irish language question, just like that. One of the issues that closed Stormont only just a short time ago.
They can't hold out like that again and risk holding elections anytime soon, they're terrified of being wiped out., And they've just voted for (by a slim margin) a man who believes that fossils are faked, and the world is 6000 years old that Catholics are more likely to get Covid-19 ...That's not the act of a sane party with an outward world view capable of negotiation. After all, all nominations to senior positions in the Stormont govt have to be agreed by all parties.
hardline Loyalists see that SF/Dublin are holding the cards, and are becoming more aware that they've been thrown under a bus by the Tories. I don't think for a minute July is going to pass peacefully.
And they’ve just voted for (by a slim margin) a man who believes that fossils are faked, and the world is 6000 years old that Catholics are more likely to get Covid-19 …That’s not the act of a sane party with an outward world view capable of negotiation
The UK voted for a man who hid in a fridge to avoid scrutiny and has had multiple extramarital affairs. When you live in a fantasy world you either have to shake yourself free of your stupidity or you keep voting for less and less sane alternatives.
People need to wake up. The idiots.
It's in the interest of the DUP (but not its voters) to join in with the "NIP must be changed or dumped" narrative that the Brexit Tories will be pushing in coming years. At some point (coming sooner than people might realise) the NI Assembly will get to vote about whether the UK sticks to the agreements struck with the EU or not... they will be using that to try and maximise their support on the run up to that crunch moment. And, when they lose that vote... there is another four year count down to the next vote, and they can try it all over again. Around, and around. Yeah... "Get Brexit Done" is a lie... it will never end, and will always be used by the DUP to try and sure up their support. Just as the Brexit Tories will do the same this side of the water.
I don’t think for a minute July is going to pass peacefully.
It's a vanishingly rare event nickc, there's always a bit of a ruck somewhere during July. (We this side of the Irish Sea don't get to see the low level stuff, just the big petrol bomb events).
I see the loyalists splitting, the majority seeing that a United Ireland might not be the worse thing that could happen and a few nutters physcos organised criminals reverting back to violence
Morrison could have happily left Downing Street on Tuesday morning without signing an in-principle agreement and asked for more weeks or months to continue negotiations over tricky issues such as agricultural access and work visas.
That, however, would have been a disaster for Johnson. The British Prime Minister has been hungry for a resolution because striking the first trade deal since Britain left the EU on January 1 helps him argue that Brexit has indeed given the UK the freedom to seek its own deals on its own terms.
Thought provoking but falls into the trap, yet again, of not pushing into the deeper levels.
From the article:
As one former BNP voter told me when I was reporting from Burnley a decade ago, “Once you vote for them, people listen.”
To which the next question should have been:
"OK, we're listening. What is it you want to say?"
I'd give it a max of one more question before the real answer energed:
"Because we don't like muslims".
Unfortunately politicians' refusal to address this stuff head on meant that Cummings, Gove, Johnson et al were able to harness a lot of the racism/xenophobia to rip off the british public in 2016.
And by 'address' I mean call out, hold up to ridicule and be a bit unpopular with a few racists. Not indulge it for the sake of it.
That Aussie trade deal news screams READ THE SMALL PRINT.
I bet De Pfeffel hasn't.
That Aussie trade deal news screams READ THE SMALL PRINT.
It'll be the 'off-book' schedules where the 'surprises' are.
