Wait, I recognise what this is.
This is the "things are a bit shit so let's try something different" vote, isn't it. Which is absolutely right of course, because continually doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is a fool's errand.
The only problem is, you have absolutely no idea what "different" looks like. You had no idea what it looked like in 2016 and having had the last five years to think about it you're no nearer.
Almost no-one wanted the status quo, but what the country needed was domestic reform. Something we could have easily done. But instead of stopping and thinking, you grabbed the first thing that looked "different".
You didn't like your house and you wanted a new one, so you set fire to your current one and are now in a tent eating cold beans going "well, I always knew there would be teething problems".
Get your head out of the sand, be the bigger person and just admit you were conned. If I were in your situation right now, I'd be feeling really angry about that.
The catalyst for change is the significant benefit of brexit👍
Kelvin, you musta missed it👍
Don't underestimate that catalyst, people are generally very scared of change
The UK can still do all those wonderful things I mentioned though cougs👍
We could have done them before we left. So what was the point in leaving, again?
How long do you envisage this short-term to be? When do we start seeing the benefits and what can we look forward to? Why is this such a difficult question for your lot, you tell us again and again how great it's going to be yet you cannot describe in detail
One
Single
Thing
that's going to be better. Give use something to look forward to, come on!
Very lucky aren’t we?
Very lucky that in 20 years we might just be in the position we were five years ago? Bravo.
@exsee - please stop posting. You're living in a fantasy land that the Leave campaign painted, it does not exist. I have yet to find ANY deal, opportunity or benefit that has arisen from us leaving the EU. Everything that someone like you flags up as a benefit is easily shown to be no better or worse than what we gave up. New trade deals: no better (usually a cut/paste of) than the deals we had before and sometimes worse. Trade with the EU is much more difficult in both directions. The country is even more divided with the possibility of the NI troubles returning. All of that is before the full impact of customs checks and other restrictions come into full force.
Every one of your posts makes you look worse, more dillusional and more ignorant. They also derail the thread and put others off posting, me included.
Don’t underestimate that catalyst, people are generally very scared of change
Do you know what the last catalyst for change of this magnitude was in the UK?
I'll give you a clue, it was around 1945. Was that short-term pain for long-term gain too? Look at all the rebuilding we did!
people are generally very scared of change
Which people? Many are currently wasting time and money adapting to the extra costs and hassles coming out of Brexit, when they'd much rather be using that energy and money to develop new things and improve what they do and how they do it. Brexit so far is an anchor on those who thrive on change and progress.
I'm really angry about the know-it-alls sitting on their arses blaming everyone but themselves but that's a different conversation😁
Head in the sand, classic stw irony👍
Ooooo, we've got the real cougs back, Godwiiiiinns.
Don't you dare.
Yes we can still educate, we can still integrate with countries, cultures, environmental challenges, yes we can still be prosperous, yes we can be have a fairer and more balanced society
No, not really. There'll be a few schemes here and there, a few bits and pieces open to those who have the money or the good fortune. I, for example, might be able to get a transfer within my own company to another country if I tried. But I might not. And that's only open to me because I have a good position in a global company. It's not open to everyone. If for example you go to Winchester, you'll meet loads of young American people, because they have a strong exchange programme with the uni there. But you have to be well off to afford such things.
So, some of us will have some opportunities to integrate, but if you think it's going to be anything like what we used to have, you're a fantasist. The entire point of Brexit is LESS integration and MORE barriers. As we are now seeing e.g. no freedom of movement, no Erasmus etc.
I’m really angry about the know-it-alls sitting on their arses
Who is sitting on their arses? You have had people post here explaining for your benefit what they are doing as a result of Brexit. Now, inform them of the "significant benefits" that will out way their efforts and costs.
How long is the short term?
Months, years, decades?
I'll ask again -
When will we start to see the benefits exsee?
& what will they be?
exsee,
Your name rings out from other threads, particularly From BLM and other race related threads.
I think we know why you think Brexit is a good thing. The reason you can't offer any actual benefits to brexit is that for you it has already delivered everything you wanted.
Keep on posting though, better you trolling on here than going out in the real world and bothering other members of the public.
Give us one “significant benefit”… and a rough timescale? Please? Something specific, not a vague feeling.
Change for the better is great. Tell us about one, how we get it, and why we couldn’t get it without Brexit… please. We’d welcome it.
10-20years princejohn as I already stated👍 have a read back and catch up.
What will we gain in 10-20 years that will only be possible because we stopped being an EU member?
My irony filter just broke again
https://twitter.com/cononeilluk/status/1362155488897556495?s=20
You couldn't make it up
Don’t I dare what cougar?
Don't you ****ing dare try and put the blame on us for this shitshow. It is entirely, wholly, 100% your fault. If you had an ounce of decency in your body you'd own it. Aren't you proud of what you've done?
We warned you, you all screamed "project fear" and thought you knew better. Now it's all starting to unfold exactly as we predicted, you're complaining that we're blaming you? Get in the sea.
What are you most looking forward to that we couldn't have done or had had before we left? One thing.
If brexit is so great then this should surely be the easiest question in the world, why can absolutely no-one in the entire country provide a straight answer to it?
Does that in itself not tell you anything?
Change for the better is still very much on the table, we can make that happen together👍
Change, yes. Better, no. Every option we now have to improve our lot in life we had while we were still part of the EU. We also had many, many more options open to us. What we have done as a country is drastically reduce the options we have without generating a single new one, as demonstrated by your inability to name ONE SINGLE benefit that leaving has given us. Not one. The UK has gone from being a big player in the world to a joke, all thanks to some people wanting a blue passport and to think they have a bit more control when the reality is that we have a blue passport that flags us up as idiots.
As I have said before, please only post when you have a tangible benefit for us to see that all of this wasn't a complete and utter mistake.
It makes no odds whether you could get those benefits within the EU, that's gone😱 now we use the catalyst of brexit to rebuild. It doesn't have to be doomsday, it can be progressive and exciting with the right political will👍 it will take time though
Could you be any more vague?
Look, just give me half your wages, and the impetus for you to change your life will be great. Let’s give that a go… oh, and if you have a car, give me the keys… it’ll be the catalyst for you to learn to fly a helicopter (let's just ignore the costs and hurdles you need to overcome to do so).
It makes no odds whether you could get those benefits within the EU, that’s gone
Why? What was the point of leaving if it were to get benefits we already had? That's not "change," that's "the same thing".
all thanks to some people wanting a blue passport
... which, lest we not forget, we could've had at any time without leaving.
The passport affair really is the ultimate irony, isn't it. We wanted rid of the burgundy passport, a colour we chose, in favour of the "iconic" blue passport that was imposed upon us by the League of Nations (and written in French). Meanwhile, let's remove our freedom of movement to other countries.
Brexit in a nutshell, right there.
OK, that's clearly too difficult for you. Let's try a simpler one.
"The catalyst to change. The catalyst to rebuild." Your own words.
What do you want to change and rebuild? How?
Cougar. It makes no difference why people chose to leave, that's done and dusted. I respect their choice.
You said yourself a few posts back that you wanted reform. That's still on the table. If we manage it, that will be a significant benefit of the brexit catalyst. That's change👍
Respecting the vote does not mean you have to give up on European integration at all, we need to use the opportunity presented to create a better society for all, not hate on your brothers and sisters for their political choices💩 show them and they will follow🐑🐑🐑
Trolling is so dull, it really is.
I didn't ask why people voted to leave. I'm very well aware of the answer to that question. I asked what the point of doing so was, seeing as you yourself now admit that we already had all those freedoms etc beforehand.
What do you want to change? Give us an example. That should be easy for you, unless I was correct in my earlier post that you took exception to and you have absolutely no idea other beyond the word.
Respecting the vote does not mean you have to give up on European integration at all...
That's EXACTLY what it means. The vote was whether you wanted to continue being integrated with the EU or to be less integrated. As you say, Leave 'won' so we have gone down the path of less integration with the EU, to undo that will be going completely against all of that.
You are dillusional and an incredibly obvious troll. Please leave until you have something constructive to say.
Kelvin, again your analogy has an element of truth. Change for the better often comes from perceived hardships👍
You said yourself a few posts back that you wanted reform.
I did, and I could give you a dozen examples off the top of my head. Which I would be more than happy to do if you can give us one.
That’s still on the table.
See that word "still" right there? So you admit that it always was, so what was the point of brexit? It gains us, seemingly by your own admission, absolutely nothing that we didn't have beyond "a catalyst for change" that you are unable or unwilling to explain any further.
Dropping a bomb on London would have had the same outcome, yay change?
If we manage it, that will be a significant benefit of the brexit catalyst.
If we manage it, it will be despite brexit and you lot will claim it as a victory. I've seen this movie before. You're talking about rebuilding whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that you demolished it in the first place.
Kelvin, again your analogy has an element of truth. Change for the better often comes from perceived hardships👍
If you genuinely believe that, give me your address and I'll order you a wrecking ball as a catalyst for change. Just think how nice your house will be after you've rebuilt it. Oh, and I'll need you to pay for the ball, sorry.
Cougar, I don't think you know quite as much as you think you do (well I know you don't t)😁
No reluctantjumper, the vote to leave is for now it doesn't stop the quest for open borders and doesn't restrict future European integration (European!)
Oooh, the changes I want to see, mmm, I would like significant political reform, I would like to see the rebalancing of wealth around the world, more empathy and understanding, open borders, open access rules etc etc, all sorts of lovely things💞
I absolutely believe that cougar (note, I said an element👍) obviously better if there's less sacrifice but I'm a big believer of the 'phoenix from the ashes'.
I've made lots of sacrifices to build a better society, my short term pain for the long term gain.
what sacrifices are they?
Cougar, I don’t think you know quite as much as you do (well I know you don’t t)😁
Enlighten me.
I would like significant political reform, I would like to see the rebalancing of wealth around the world,
... nothing at all to do with brexit then.
more empathy and understanding, open borders, open access rules etc etc, all sorts of lovely things💞
... by driving a wedge through the heart of the country, stirring up long-dormant racial tension, throwing a question mark over foreign aid, removing freedom of movement across 27 countries, removing access to the single market, pulling us out of ERASMUS and countless other institutions... Oh, and Ireland's looking likely to be going back to opportunities for an exciting catalyst to rebuild quite soon too, so that'll be exciting for them.
Working out well for you so far then? Brexit looking like it's going to deliver all those things for you, is it?
It can be a catalyst for change
I can be better
We can still reform
We can rebuild
Apparently we can do a lot of things that we either could have done in the EU, or only need to do because we are out against the will of the people who have to deal with the problems
This 10-20 year "short term pain" that you talk about @exsee is people's jobs and homes being lost. Probably 10s of 1,000s of them, possibly 100s of 1,000s. On top of that the cost of living will increase whilst wages and benefits will stagnate putting more people into poverty. As a Brexist are you happy to explain to each and every one of them how much better off they can be while they sell their belongings to put food in their kids bellies for a week?
I’m a big believer of the ‘phoenix from the ashes’.
... yet screamed "godwin" at me when I mentioned the last time this country had (literal) ashes.
what sacrifices are they?
And how is society better as a result?
This 10-20 year “short term pain” that you talk about @exsee is people’s jobs and homes being lost.
That's a very good point actually. It's easy to say "short term pain" like you've run out of milk. Hey, who knows, you might discover you really like black coffee!
The reality isn't quite so glib. You might be out of milk, someone else might be out of insulin. For them that's not short-term pain, it's short-term potential death.
Crikey! This is a different Cougar!
Presumably just the same one as usual, fed up with bullshit.
What do you want to change and rebuild?
I can answer that, as a remainer.
I want to rebuild society with fairness and progress for all in mind. I want public ownership of essential utilities, I want huge investment in education, I want wealth redistribution, I want affordable housing, a better minimum wage and an end to the need for in-work benefits and food banks.
We didn't need to leave the EU for any of those, did we? Because doing things needs money, and out of the EU we'll have less money.
The UK doesn't like to do impact assessment or GDP forecasts but the Euopeans are quite happy to. EU studies say both sides lose but as you'd expect Britain takes the bigger hit.
Even if Brexit only takes 1% per annum off UK GDP the wealth gap is going to become a canyon. Just as it did before the UK joined. We already know how Britain does outside the union: badly. That's why Heath was so keen to join.
The Brexiters I know used to be highly jealous of Germany's post war success, "we won the war and lost the peace". 20 years after joining the EU Britain was doing pretty well mainly due to inward investment thanks to EU membership and trade with the EU.
20 years from now the UK will be an insignificant, impoverished island, unless a miracle happens and it rejoins at least the customs union and free trade area. Expect to pay a high price for that.
I’m really angry about the know-it-alls sitting on their arses
As opposed to the know f-alls who voted for this disaster s a "protest" against the status quo when all it would ever do is benefit those at the top that orchestrated it.
I work for a pharma company -in the run up to Xmas our supply chain manager was having a rough time ensuring smooth receipt of material & shipment of finished product. It's a lot more hassle; paperwork & cost transporting to the EU than it was now. When he was discussing this with his Brexit voting dad, the response was "oh I didn't think it would have this effect".
How do you expect a tinpot little country like ours to do trade deals vs much larger countries?
I want to rebuild society with fairness and progress for all in mind. I want public ownership of essential utilities, I want huge investment in education, I want wealth redistribution, I want affordable housing, a better minimum wage and an end to the need for in-work benefits and food banks.
Bloody communist 😉
You'd think Molgrip's manifesto would be a vote winner everywhere wouldn't you?
And yet it only takes a few "bloody communist" headlines in the red tops and the readers vote Tory.
my short term pain for the long term gain.
Oh, I get it, you are either one of those youtube fitness instructors blurting out 'inspirational' one liners for the fat folk at home, or
You run a print shop and are trying to make up meme posters of of people standing at the top of mountains with 'inspirational' quotes, so that you can sell them to office managers when lockdown ends. Which could be a problem as their may be less office workers and offices around.
You haven't thought this through, have you?
