That should be challenged and an independent press would do that. There is no fully independent mass media any more; the BBC are scared they will have the license fee removed and have a political appointee as a DG. The other news print media is right wing, broadly supportive and/or steered by people that Boris has to please.
The internet? Why the hell would they give a shit if people disagree with them in the comments section of the Guardian or Mumsnet?
Kelvin,
Not a glib response in my view. A factual one backed up by what we're doing in the business I work in. We service and support niche manufacturing equipment and many of our customers are on the mainland. It's clear that in order to ensure our future we need to diversify. This is certainly something we could have done while in the EU but didn't. We have a product we've prototyped, proven, and offered to our r&d group (US) and for 'reasons' they've turned their nose up at it. My boss has stick his hand in his pocket and bought a 3d printer which we're using to make a very lightweight CNC mill which will help facilitate low level manufacture of this thing. It'll go we reckon.
This isn't a model everyone can follow, it's not something that can be applied to the country's economy as a whole, but if it keeps our office going or even growing I'll take that.
I'll join in the pissing and moaning about brexit and the shower of ****s that we laughably refer to as government but that's not going to pay my mortgage.
That this discussion is revolving around data shows how weak the arguments are around 'what we could do differently'.
It's worth remembering that our economy is built on making things/fishing - apparently - (which we have to sell), or providing services (which someone needs to buy).
Both those elements now have significant barriers in front of them that will hinder businesses and will deter investment in the future. That's why Mrs Thatcher wanted the barriers removed.
Offering to sell outfits information around what pills we're popping and how it turned out is not a replacement for trade in goods and services and isn't really what anyone would call an effective long-term strategy. If you want deep data you'll find Google/Facebook/Twitter know far more about us than our institutions do already.
We can and should be proud of our country without boo-ing and hiss-ing at the pantomime villains over the water, or dissing their culture. I'm cool with them, I expect them to be cool with me.
We can nuture talent, invest in ideas and grow businesses and we always could - that's what Hope and Cotic and Bird and Stanton and loads of other bike and non-bike related businesses did and will continue to do. The people who didn't always found a reason to explain why they didn't and I don't see any reason why that won't continue.
All this suggests that one way or the other in the long run we will have to get back into bed with the EU, at least in the form of a EEA and Customs Union. The arguing will boil down to what we call it and whether it sounds sufficiently 'British', even Churchilian. Let's say it ends up as the 'GBEA'.
I have no problem with companies being innovative and coming up with all sorts of products that haven't yet been thought of, particularly in the green space where the future clearly lies. If that's built off exploitation, weaker employment rights and a poorer quality of life when it is already a struggle for many, which I suspect it might then I will continue to argue in favour of us being in the EU.
On the flipside, I would welcome any ideas from here that increase worker protections, improve our environment and our quality of life. That's the Brexit promise - I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for evidence it's even possible, let alone going to happen.
Dougiedogg – massive investment from government – apart from the tories will not do this it falls foul of not only the EU deal but also the japanese and chinese ones IIRC.
+ every member of the WTO.
At least the NI conundrum was solved… no need to have to think about that any more… it was easy after all. How could we have doubted those who said it would be so simple?
‘we always said there would increased paperwork and checks at the ports’
Not half (from another forum):
Nearly all the groupage lorries are on stop.
Full loads are fine. For example BMW sending gearboxes to Swindon.
But mixed freight isn't going anywhere.
A typical parcel trunker lorry could have 3000 different consignments on the same load. That is 3000 new bits of paperwork to check. 3000 EORI numbers to be chased.
And that applies into NI from Scotland as well.
We can and should be proud of our country without boo-ing and hiss-ing at the pantomime villains over the water, or dissing their culture. I’m cool with them, I expect them to be cool with me.
If only more people had taken that mature approach over the last 20-30 years.
Spare a thought for the poor Brits Abroad.
John Lewis and Fortnum and Mason have stopped shipping to Europe.
mariner
Free Member
Spare a thought for the poor Brits Abroad.
John Lewis and Fortnum and Mason have stopped shipping to Europe.
That will be the Brexit voting father of one of my colleagues who has had to apply for Spanish citizenship because he spends most of the year in his Spanish home. ****
Spare a thought for the poor Brits Abroad.
John Lewis and Fortnum and Mason have stopped shipping to Europe
No Waitrose sausages in the British Supermarket in Portimão today 😔 my Saturday fry up won't be the same. Got some reduced priced black pudding though but the shelves were definitely looking bare.
You can’t export fresh sausages from UK to EU now. The Irish will be sorting you out for fry ups soon enough.
kelvin
Full Member
You can’t export fresh sausages from UK to EU now. The Irish will be sorting you out for fry ups soon enough.
First real upside?
More frozen sausages for lawns over here and the EU?
First real upside?
More frozen sausages for lawns over here and the EU?
Unfortunately the massive lawns of the people most deserving of the frozen sausage treatment will be behind 20 foot 10,000 volt electric fences. Whilst patrolled just outside by armed minimum wage slaves that have been coerced into the work through desperation. See also orchards, fishing lakes, woods, moats etc.
I see the government's lifted the restriction on the EU-banned bee-killing nicotinoid pesticides as well.
I see the government’s lifted the restriction on the EU-banned bee-killing nicotinoid pesticides as well.
Have you got a link for that - god knows what shit they are rushing through under cover of Covid deaths and the American chaos, needs bringing into the light!
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/beet-growers-have-a-neonic-seed-treatment-for-2021.336040/
Reading between the lines it appears to have come from the top down (ie British Sugar have asked for it rather than the farmers themselves). A bit of background reading suggest BS were very anti-brexit as they fear for the survival of the industry as the protections against cheap cane sugar from Brazil etc will corner the UK market. Maybe the UK Gov have acknowledged this for the time being and are acting on this basis? Either way, it is not really surprising and is hopefully very very limited and subject to strict conditions as the article would suggest.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/27/brexit-sugar-beet-cane-tate-lyle-british-sugar
Tate and Lyle were huge supporters of Brexit and are also big donors to the Tory Party
Tate & Lyle: Brexit-backing firm that donated to Tories set to save £73m from trade change
And so the frog-boiling begins. The slow, almost imperceptible drip-drip-drip of regulations and rights being quietly binned
I see the government’s lifted the restriction on the EU-banned bee-killing nicotinoid pesticides as well.
This is where the divergence starts, it ticks the divergence and sovereignty box for the brexiteers and throws a much needed bone to the farmers. Just at the expense of the environment eh?
Yes, but Tate and Lyle are the complete opposite to British Sugar. Sugar from Tate and Lyle isn't grown in the UK and has to get past EU quotas of non-EU produce to get here. Hence why they were so pro Brexit. And why British Sugar (which grows sugar beet in the UK and is threatened by T&L imports post Brexit) are keen to have treated seed so that the UK sugar industry doesn't collapse.
[strong]fingerbang[/strong] wrote:
This is where the divergence starts, it ticks the divergence and sovereignty box for the brexiteers and throws a much needed bone to the farmers. Just at the expense of the environment eh?
There is nothing to stop the EU also introducing the same emergency authorization if they need/want to. But their sugar industry is not yet threatened by Tate & Lyle!
"Nurses do not meet the visa requirements for coming to the UK IIRC"
But in theory that could be changed
Could be changed for nurses. What about their family members?
British Sugar have asked for it rather than the farmers themselves
The NFU were lobbying for this.
The govt's own website says this still:
Unless the scientific evidence changes, the government will maintain these increased restrictions post-Brexit.
So where is the scientific evidence to support this change?
reluctantjumper
Full MemberSo where is the scientific evidence to support this change?
They didn't say pesticide or insect health science, it's the political science that's changed.
I see the government’s lifted the restriction on the EU-banned bee-killing nicotinoid pesticides as well.
Hmm that's not exactly what's happened, is it? Bee honest now.
Maybe somebody here can advice/help me - as private person let say I want to send gift to a friend in any EU country - so he will have to pay VAT upon receiving item? Even if I paid VAT on that item already in UK? I guess as private person I cannot reclaim Vat back.
What if item is USED but value is still over £200-£300 ? He will have to pay VAT based on value?
And other way around - if I buy used item on eBay from private seller in EU country ill have to add 20% VAT to pay here upon receiving ?
That Keegan article still over plays “the deal”… it reads as if we have left the Single Market and are de facto still in the Customs Union. We are not. Companies and individuals in EU countries are still selling to, and buying from, each other, in one market place. We’re a different market that requires all the hassle, delay, costs, and many of the tariffs, that 1970s style exporting/importing entails.
Back at work this week and have been trying to work out what this deal means to the company I work for. Have said before that we supply components to the rail industry world wide and are big players in Europe.
We have a sister company in india, which was set up to deal with with the Asian markets and also pick up the slack if we in the UK have capacity issues. Increasingly in the last couple of years have been the sole manufacturer for certain UK & European projects.
Now, India and the EU have a trade deal which costs around 2.6% on our goods from India. Any components that originated in the EU (i.e. we shipped to India) that duty is reduced to 0.8%.
Those deals no longer apply to the UK as we are now a third party country.
You would think that this would be good for UK manufactured goods.. Think again.. The margins of UK manufactured goods is so tight that the only way we can make any sort of profit from UK built product is part build in India and finish it off in the UK. The difference between UK & Indian salaries is so great that we can even afford to fly the finished goods halfway around the world.
Leading up to the so called deal we feared that it would the last nail in the coffin for manufacturing in the UK, other than servicing our products in the UK market. Probably losing around 100 UK skilled staff.
This deal has complicated an already complicated process that we are still trying to determine the full effect on the UK plant. Until that happens, everything we are bidding on is quoted to be manufactured in India.
If course, this isn’t just about goods, and isn’t just an “essential unavoidable result of Brexit”… the EU has spent years offering us ways to work more closely together after transition, but our government chooses maximum damage internationally for maximum “control” at home…
Erasmus is the most obvious refusal of our government to cooperate in mutually beneficial measures post Brexit, but here’s another…
https://twitter.com/thenitinsawhney/status/1348011999201030152?s=21
“It is usually in our agreements with third countries, that [work] visas are not required for musicians. We tried to include it, but the UK said no,” an EU source close to the negotiations said.
TBH they don’t discriminate, they’re currently killing everyone 🙂
We’re a different market that requires all the hassle, delay, costs, and many of the tariffs, that 1970s style exporting/importing entails.
Does seem to look that way, I have a sneaking feeling that the only people going to win are the distributors as all this grey importing we were all doing so easily as being in the EU made it a piece of piss for all sides is gone.
Back to the glory days of treasure island when you paid what you were told.
Rumblings of renegotiations already
One leading figure involved in the talks with Gove described the new rule book as a “complete shitshow”. Another said Gove seemed “very concerned” at hearing reports of problems, after a week in which Marks & Spencer was among leading companies to warn that more bureaucracy would increase costs. The source added: “He [Gove] seemed to realise the full gravity of the situation that is unfolding and about to get worse.
😂
That the government would indulge in environmental dumping such as reauthorising the bee killing pesticide was so predictable it was predicted four years ago:
How long before a complaint is made to the Brexit arbitration people with a a demand for sanctions/tarifs? At present tarifs would be a waste of time, most exporters seem to find the paperwork hurdle dissuasion enough.
Not much to renegotiate though. Out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, no freedom of movement. Also a government and opposition that are hell bent on pretending that Europe doesn't exist anymore. Oh and something something Blockchain.
Hope everyone likes sovereignty shit sandwiches.
And on the Bee thing. Here's some informed comment - it would appear France did the same earlier this year. Turns out there is provision under EU law for emergency use of restricted chemicals if the circumstances allow it. Quelle surprise.
https://twitter.com/Tom_Clarke/status/1337737078789038082
How long before a complaint is made to the Brexit arbitration people with a a demand for sanctions/tarifs?
Not very. I'm pretty certain the only way De Pfeffel won over the ERG loonies was by promising them he would start cocking around at the first opportunity. Having told the previous room full of people something totally different. Possibly even on the same day with just an hour's break for a lunchtime snifter.
As a nation, we will be hauled up in front of some kind of arbitration panel very soon, I think. And of course, 'our' government will act like a snot-nosed, spoiled, truculent little shit. And of course 'we' will get our botty spanked and be humiliated. And of course the Tory press will portray it as 'Europe' being 'beastly' to 'us'. And of course, the nobheads will lap it up. Again.
So France did it first?
Thanks for sharing torsoinalake. There's always more to consider than the obvious headline outrage stance.
From the Yorkshire Bylines
Johnson pleads with business leaders: give me a reason for Brexit
Is this not a question that should have been asked 4 years ago?
Not by Johnson… it was a political project to win and keep power… **** business.
Haunted Victorian Pencil shuts down scrutiny
Jacob Rees-Mogg has blocked an extension of a Commons committee tasked with scrutinising the Brexit process.
So many surprises, much like the sun rises.