We’ve agreed to follow EU trade and business rules and standards.. have given up our role in setting those rules... we can stop EU types coming here to work.... they can stop UK types going there to work... some deal on fish.... we’ve given up EHIC and Erasmus and services access to EU markets... but we got duty free allowances and blue passports
I think that’s it. What did I miss?
There's shit loads of new paperwork to import and export things.
We had a better deal than everyone else before.
Yes
We had a better deal than everyone else before.
Yes
And now we have a worse deal.
Yay.
Absolutely gutted that we have withdrawn from Erasmus. It gave me one of the best years of my life in Spain and now future languages graduates will be lumbered with some half baked replacement that the Government will claim as world beating. ****ers.
The government won't have been wanting to foster a cohort of people who see themselves as European or otherwise have a personal affection and appreciation of Europe. In time, such people will work to bring the UK closer to Europe.
I don't know what subjects are popular in Erasmus, but knowing this gov and "the programme will incorporate opportunities which reflect the government’s promise to level up the country" I doubt there will be much room for languages and arts.
I give up.
I don’t know what subjects are popular in Erasmus
I did electrical engineering at Strathclyde and Erasmus at Pavia near Milan. We had quite a few doing it.
I’m assuming it’ll take until January 4th to get the Rejoin campaign properly up and running.
Erasmus "replacement" predictably is no such thing- the entire point of Erasmus, literally the reason it works, is that it's widespread and simple and reciprocal. It doesn't make transfers possible, there's loads of ways to study abroad- it makes them easy. And that's massive, because any student can do a study abroad but most don't because it's so stressful- even the idea is stressful, but then finding places etc is work, without Erasmus.
So, anything that tries to fill that hole, but isn't as universal and simple, is a failure before it's even started, it misses the core benefit. That includes being an Erasmus Partner- my old place used to have a constant flow of kids to Switzerland every year, you know how many they've had since 2014 when Switzerland got kicked out of full Erasmus? Not one.
And what we're talking about now, "Turing", isn't even as good as what the Swiss have- the reason we're not going to be an Erasmus partner is that we've refused to spend the few million quid they do every year in order to still get access. Our way is third best,it's not even the Swiss's attempt to reduce the damage. It'll reduce our kids' opportunities and it'll lose all of the benefits of having european kids studying here. And if they deliver on the promises- you never know, it might happen- it'll cost more than being an Erasmus Partner would have, but apparently it's better to pour money down the drain than share it to the EU in partnership
And, ya know, everyone who's been involved in this from the word go-from everyone that said losing Erasmus would be a tragedy, to everyone that's claimed we can copy it, to the Prime Minster who said less than a year ago that there was no threat to our membership at all- has known all this.
Very sad to lose Erasmus, how unfair to those kids who weren't old enough to vote that now have fewer opportunities (not the only thing that'll impact them of course)
If rejoining in the future is ever an option, it'll be an easy vote winner for Labour to capture the student vote
Erasmus (also known as Orgasmus)aka taxpayer paid holiday.
baboonz
Erasmus (also known as Orgasmus)aka taxpayer paid holiday.
Not when I did it in 1990. Must have changed by the time you did it (I am assuming you have first hand knowledge).
Boris Johnson is hailing as a victory ‘his’ deal which looks to be exactly the same as Theresa Mays deal, the one that he resigned over and voted against two years ago, saying it would be a disaster for the UK?
I’m not missing anything here am I?
May couldn’t really carry it off as well as Boris thou 🙂
Apart from something to do with fish, do we actually gain anything from this deal?
I’ll give you my opinion as a relative political Neanderthal; We’ve gained independence as a sovereign country from Europe, can start to look forward to not being a go to and free foreign welfare state yet we have a pretty decent set of trade tariffs or not for our business.
Being in Sales the statements made yesterday are true - no one ever gets what they want in a negotiation. Now is about discovering what’s been given away -Erasmus, fish and what else... in those negotiations.
Of course, there are systematic changes to make to get all that up and running, not withstanding likely a few internal and external arguments along the way. Perhaps use the lauded Canada analogy; it’s bloody nice place to go with a country of decent people but you cannot go there and take the piss.
No one will ever be happy with this, as they weren’t when we went in (it took decades for some people to see EU membership as a good thing) yet some of those people now own villas on the Costa’s. We’ll get by, we’ll adapt, and we’ll trade. Just differently, like lots of other independent countries. I think the Divorce analogy is a good one; it’s not the end of the world just two places doing things differently together yet having a little more freedom at home, and there’s always an initial period of disruption followed by negotiations along the way.
Erasmus (also known as Orgasmus)aka taxpayer paid holiday.
Erasmus and Erasmus+ are educational and cultural exchanges. It's a programme designed to strengthen European relations, expand horizons and raise education attainment.
It is not, as many are reporting, merely a university programme.
There are summer camps, school exchanges, teacher exchanges and professional learning groups, academic exchanges, academic co-operation and youth work co-operation.
This then is why it's been culled - our Brexiteer's don't want us to be European or strengthen relations. They're ideologically opposed to it.
I've personally taken part in 5 over 25 years and manage staff leading three at the moment, we had hoped for two more in the spring.
I've benefitted from learning about outdoor learning across Europe, co-designed climate emergency studies at secondary school, co-developed long term Early Years outdoor programmes, designed better school grounds and had well over 500 UK teachers learn from colleagues across Europe through exchanges, collaboration or one-off events.
Yes, we got to travel. I've been to Italy, Sweden, Estonia, Slovakia, Germany and France. I've worked alongside colleagues from those countries and Denmark, Spain, Malta, Greece, Poland, Portugal and Spain. I've eaten Pizza in Florence, swum in an Estonian big, stood on a dormant volcano in Slovakia and fished in Sweden. I took teachers from across Europe up our Scottish winter hills and to London to showcase the UK. I learned about communities and culture across Europe. I've made lifelong friends through it - and seen cultures and places in Europe I had no idea existed. Yes, Erasmus paid for all of this.
Imo, Remain campaign should have sent half the UK on an Erasmus+ and we would have had overwhelming support to remain.
Turing won't be a patch on it...
I know I said I wouldn't but...
baboonz
Erasmus (also known as Orgasmus)aka taxpayer paid holiday.
igm
Not when I did it in 1990. Must have changed by the time you did it (I am assuming you have first hand knowledge).
That put-down will keep me chuckling all through today and tomorrow. 🤣
Thanks igm, but thank you so much more baboonz for teeing yourself up. The gifts that keep on giving.
And I think we all know the answer to the first hand experience question...🤣
We’ve gained independence as a sovereign country from Europe, can start to look forward to not being a go to and free foreign welfare state
Latest figures I can find
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-facts/how-many-eu-migrants-claim-benefits-in-the-uk/
About 0.17% of the UK population are EU migrants claiming benefits. Hardly the horror show the tabloid rags would lead you to believe
You need to also add non EU migrants claiming benefits for the full picture. I wasn’t claiming it was a massive disaster, but at least now the practise will hopefully be oriented to the genuinely needy rather than an open border free for all.
We’ll get by, we’ll adapt
Whatever we do to 'adapt' we will definitely have to pay a load of people tomoush paper around, paper that has zero economic benefit. Sonour productivity, already low, will be permanently below what it otherwise would be.
at least now the practise will hopefully be oriented to the genuinely needy rather than an open border free for all.
Lol, you what? Tories helping the genuinely needy? What ****ing planet are you on?
And anyway, if an EU person has no job, aren't they genuinely needy? Or don't their problems count cos they were born somewhere else?
Or are you suggesting that people came here just to get benefits with no intention of working?
So migrants aren't 'genuinely needy'?. Season of goodwill right enough.
You need to also add non EU migrants claiming benefits for the full picture
What is the title of your ‘picture?’*
*And how does/did it relate to EU membership?
Even on Christmas Day, never underestimate STW’s ability to have an argument.
Enjoy, ttfn.
yet some of those people now own villas on the Costa’s.
My guess is some of those without substantial independent wealth might be forced to return.
Like the worst Christmas presents, the lustre will have worn off by new year and we will be looking for the receipt.
Was. It. Really. Worth. It?
That put-down will keep me chuckling all through today and tomorrow. 🤣
Good on ya and merry Xmas.
Not when I did it in 1990. Must have changed by the time you did it (I am assuming you have first hand knowledge).
Lol I wasn’t even born then. I actually grew up in a Spanish town that was the target of a lot of Erasmus students and it’s students also went abroad. I never participated in Erasmus myself.
it is not, as many are reporting, merely a university programme.
I didn’t know this. Thanks for the lengthy explanation.
On another note, is the UK also out of the research collaboration programme (horizon 2020 and so on?)
So - professional registrations... Can I, or can I not, practice in the EU?
Doesn't seem very clear.
Even on Christmas Day, never underestimate STW’s ability to have an argument.
Enjoy, ttfn.
Here’s a hat for you and anyone who dared respond to your biglong Xmas Day post. 🥳
Non eu migrants are not entitled to benefits until they have been here and paying taxes for a qualifying period. Brexit makes no difference to this group
yet some of those people now own villas on the Costa’s.
My guess is some of those without substantial independent wealth might be forced to return.
They will no longer be able to live there or any EU country for more than 90 days and cannot return within a 6 month period, unless they have residency.
There are three ways to gain residency. 1, Be born or have a parent born in a EU country (some countries account for grandparents) 2. Have a job or prove you can support yourself in said country 3. Become naturalised (If we are talking about Spain, the spanish don't accept dual nationality so you'd have to give up your british citizenship)
I know of a dozen families having to return to the UK because they don't any of those things. Most ran gite businesses and this year their income has been decimated.
Quite a fair/harsh summary by BBC here
BBC News - What Boris Johnson's mistake tells us about our future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55442982
Was. It. Really. Worth. It?
Anyone who honestly cares what the answer to that is, already knows what it is.
open border free for all
We haven’t had such a thing for over a hundred years now. Gaining things we never lost, and losing things we never realised we had… Brexit is just the fulfilment of the wishes of the ignorant by self serving con men and women. Mrry Chrrstmssss!
I know of a dozen families having to return to the UK
They should have been richer. Living where you want, learning where you want, doing what you want… these are, from the end of the month, once again the preserve of the elite, who persuaded us to give up such opportunities for ourselves. Hpppyy Nwww Yrrr!
The thinnest of thin deals - dressed up and presented as a big win.
Should start seeing some intelligent analyses of the contents over the next few days.
There's an article by David Gauke in the Guardian Opinion online which I can't link to but is well worth reading.
I wonder whether Teresa May will say anything as this deal is demonstrably worse than the one which she tabled.
I can't wait to 'prosper mightily'; thanks johnson - for nothing.
Ouch. When the BBC are being anti-Brexit of anti-BoJo then the deal must be pretty bad...
Seems to me even if it’s a good deal, the EU sell us goods, and we sell them services, and this deal only covers goods.
Meanwhile, we are about to impose an immigration policy (voted for by the poorest) that essentially means we can bring in affluent to rich immigrants, but lie paid poor folks jobs will be done by indigenous UK types. The poor voting against social mobility and for remaining poor.
I see social unrest.
Merry Christmas.
PS BoJo’s cronies will “prosper mightily” - guaranteed
So – professional registrations… Can I, or can I not, practice in the EU?
From the guardian:
Professional qualifications
There will be no more automatic recognition for doctors, nurses, architects, dentists, pharmacists, vets, engineers. They will now have to seek recognition in the member state they wish to practise in.
Even on Christmas Day, never underestimate STW’s ability to have an argument.
So, you come on here spouting bollocks but then "oh please don't call me out on it, it's Christmas"
I support goodwill to all 365 days a year.
The thinnest of thin deals – dressed up and presented as a big win.
Should start seeing some intelligent analyses of the contents over the next few days.
Yep, just enough to not have the wheels fall completely off and to be able to tick the checkbox Brexit done and quickly move it from front stage to a background task that trundles along for many more years.
And a Merry Brexitmas to you all 🙂
spouting bollocks
Or, my opinion. Maybe your opinion is bollocks to me, what happened to put you in a bad mood, someone piss on your sprouts?
“oh please don’t call me out on it, it’s Christmas”
Very much your assumption molgrips, I didn't post that as you well know.
Or, my opinion. Maybe your opinion is bollocks to me, what happened to put you in a bad mood, someone piss on your sprouts?
What happened is someone told me not to say anything they didn't like because it's Christmas 😉
But I'm not in a bad mood. But I'll always challenge.
Looks like the fish industry isn't happy with it. Don't think they realised they were being used as a pointless pawn in a gam of chess.
Very interesting to see what holes appear, especially as the EU are already examining the details while our lot gorge themselves on Xmas food for a few days in self-congratulations.
Has to be ratified by both sets of parliaments yet
someone piss on your sprouts?
That'll only improve the taste.
I see social unrest.
I see the imbeciles who voted for Brexit reaping what they sow.
It's surely what was expected, if anything it's sounding slightly better than expected. A free trade deal covering pretty much all UK/EU origin goods without quotas (for now) in exchange for some concessions over fishing and rule taking and some tweaks around the edges for things like car batteries to flex the UK origin a bit further.
I can't see any problems ratifying it, seems like they spent 4 1/2 years going round in circles
