tpbiker
Full MemberAs for Labour abstaining, why? I’m a Labour voter and if they are to choose between a shit deal and no deal they better be picking a shit deal.
Sure, but that's not quite the choice. If the government have the numbers without Labour, then there's no risk of the shit deal so they're not choosing between the two- they're choosing whether to endorse the shit deal which is going to pass with or without them, or not.
I agree that personally I won't ever hold it against them if they support it but that's not how politics works- every time they criticize the government for their shit deal, forever, it'll be "but you voted for it".
Obviously different spin from both sides but this did jump out at me:
We have taken back control of our money, borders, laws, trade and our fishing waters
Since when did we ever lose control of our money? (Or indeed laws)
Ursula certainly made that sound like the EU banged their fist on the table and got what they wanted.
Lets see, but probably they did...
The Sky News longitudinal analysis piece is interesting.
What comes across is that Johnson’s problem isn’t that the EU is a political movement - actually quite the reverse.
It’s a rules based club and Johnson doesn’t like rules that you have to follow - he’s more into guidelines that you can play with according to the politics of the day. (Tory COVID behaviour, journeys, awarding contracts to friends etc would tend to support this).
The level playing field has been a problem because while we might want better standards, less subsidies etc, if it became politically expedient to do otherwise we wouldn’t want rules getting in the way now would we. Fishing on the other hand is straight politics, nothing more.
If the EU had been a political movement we’d probably still be in it.
I've heard Boris use the words World Class, does that also include the world class response to the virus? I'd trust Yodel to deliver a post Brexit economy more than this shambles. And my new Dada seat post was left with my neighbour this morning and I was in.
just seen the statement about free trade no rules control of borders etc. so what have they had to agree to to get this, that they are not wanting to spell out just yet?
I couldn't cope with Boris's waffle so shouted at Alexa to switch off, it didn't switch off.
I now have an Alexa dot in pieces after punching it.........brexit dividend?
My guess would be that it's a new deal in all but name. In reality the EU still holds the keys, we just don't get to have any say on how the rules are made.
Basically an illusion of 'taking back control' only.
So both parties subject to third party arbitration - question is by who? The WTO? So we are still subject to decisions by an unelected body. Great success lads.
So, let me get this right....
Boris Johnson is hailing as a victory ‘his’ deal which looks to be exactly the same as Theresa Mays deal, the one that he resigned over and voted against two years ago, saying it would be a disaster for the UK?
I’m not missing anything here am I?
The first (of many I suspect) ' oh yeah, that's not included in our world class deal. Sorry about that' emerges.
question is by who?
Well looking at what everyone is saying, reading between the lines and trying to square the circle...
We’ve agreed to follow EU trade and business rules and standards with a body to oversee it - it might be a brand new body.
The have given up our role in setting those rules.
We can stop EU types coming here to work.
They can stop UK types going there to work.
Some deal on fish.
We’ve given up EHIC and Erasmus.
And services access to EU markets.
But we got duty free allowances and blue passports (well according to the Brexies that last one - and shouldn’t cyclists have hi-viz passports anyway)
I think that’s it. What did I miss?
The bad day that the brexiteers have feared all along has finally arrived, this is the first day of the UK slowly but surely rejoining the EU.
this was supposed to be all about no deal, whoops they lost.
What is the situation with financial services now, without me reading 2000 pages of this document?
The bad day that the brexiteers have feared all along has finally arrived, this is the first day of the UK slowly but surely rejoining the EU.
They just haven’t realised it yet.
Will be interesting so see what whoopsies come out.
They've dumped Erasmus and Erasmus+.
That's a huge door closed for our young people, children and educators.
That and our business that last year had £300k of Erasmus+ income, supporting 3 jobs full time.
Yeah… but… Turing! [ details to follow - presumably not worked out yet - nice name though ]
Anyhow - does this mean the German bike shops will be fair game again?
Think so Purist but you havw to give a fish to the EU for each bike part you buy
To johnson was always going to throw fishermen under the bus to get a deal
Neglecting to include Scottish seed potato farmers is a gift to Sturgeon too
Anyhow – does this mean the German bike shops will be fair game again?
depends on HMRC,
I'm suspecting that fish and potatoes are the tip of the iceberg...
What is the situation with financial services now, without me reading 2000 pages of this document?
Not much in there at all for FS. So the migration of the FS firms to the EU will continue.
Great - so for an economy that is 80% services, we’ve spent 2 years arguing over fish instead! 🤬
Not much in there at all for FS. So the migration of the FS firms to the EU will continue.
Typical remainer doomsters and gloomsters . I think that the bankers will have plenty of the new opportunities in fishing and fruit picking.
I’m sure the tax take will be roughly similar
Yeah… but… Turing!
I'm not sure that'll pass the test, but then neither would Boris
Do you think the think the 'Haters and Regretters' are happy now?
Might have saved us from this national embarrassment if they had thought about their children's future ...
Is there any indication of anything to do with work permits for UKers, or is it just back to individual national rules as for other third parties?
Is it just me who thinks calling the new erasmus program "Turing" is taking the piss by naming it after one of the main people who "helped defeat the Germans"?
Or am I just being cynical?
Anyway, waiting until the 1st of Jan to sign up for the rejoin the EU party, whoever they happen to be. Not in any hope that it will happen but really to make sure that the folly of brexit remains in the public mind and who was redponsible.
Is it just me who thinks calling the new erasmus program “Turing” is taking the piss by naming it after one of the main people who “helped defeat the Germans”?
He also committed suicide after being prosecuted by the government for being a homosexual. The government later apologised for the appalling way he was treated.
A fair point but given how deliberately nasty and mindlessly jingoistic the current govt is I'm inclined to go with my opinion on this one.
It was a libdem private members bill that was acted on by the justice minister of the time ........ Chris Grayling. So he was probably actually trying to have the sentence increased rather than help pardon him.
Starter has said all the right things... that Labour will support the deal as it's necessary, but that the details and any failures lie solely at the feet of the government
Does this deal actually provide enough permits for the UK haulage industry.
Well what a giant waste of time and money that was/is. I can't believe they had the cheek to claim they've delivered everything they promised during the referendum campaign - that £350m a week extra for the NHS still coming is it?
Well what a giant waste of time and money that was/is. I can’t believe they had the cheek to claim they’ve delivered everything they promised during the referendum campaign – that £350m a week extra for the NHS still coming is it?
I wouldnt ask if I were you; it's the easiest one in the world to give a politicians answer to... "we have increased spending more than any government in the last x years, we have hired x number new nurses and sacked x number middle managers, opened x number new hospitals etc" and the public will believe every word of it. They can say they've spent a billion extra a year if they want and it can go unchallenged because that is how soundbite politics, right wing media and parliamentary privilege that allows MPs to lie to the public unchallenged works.
£350M for the NHS, I believe it's still coming. It just goes directly to Tory chums under the guise of PPE procurement contracts.
it can go unchallenged because that is how soundbite politics, right wing media and parliamentary privilege that allows MPs to lie to the public unchallenged works.
Then we - me, you, everyone who genuinely cares enough - need to start challenging it.
Easy fix, for a reasonable wage I'll head into London once a week and smack them round the head with that fancy stick they use to open parliament. A few weeks of that and the proper POS will either leave or start being decent human beings
Based on what I've read so far, there's not a single aspect of the deal that's better than what we had before.
Well ****ing done Brexiteers 🙁
better than what we had before
That ship sailed long ago.
We had a better deal than everyone else before.
Looks like if you want to take advantage of Erasmus, send your kids to Queens or somewhere else in NI.
Apart from something to do with fish, do we actually gain anything from this deal?
Then we – me, you, everyone who genuinely cares enough – need to start challenging it.
Oh I agree, I'm not sure how though. Maybe we need to play them at their own game.
Easy fix, for a reasonable wage I’ll head into London once a week and smack them round the head with that fancy stick they use to open parliament. A few weeks of that and the proper POS will either leave or start being decent human beings
Can we at least take turns?
