I’m not talking about putting life on hold indefinitely, that’s just not practical. But it’s short-term pain for long-term gain
One of the arguments I keep hearing from people is that the government keeps moving the goalposts on this. If we knew exactly how long we needed the restrictions for people would get more behind it. But no, day 1 of the lockdown Gove is already saying it may go on longer, so people thing "sod it". And don't say "if people obey the rules it'll be less", give us numbers and specifics, "if we get 80% compliance it'll last for 4 weeks, less than that it'll be 6 weeks" or whatever.
Plus, what's short term and what's long term? And is it different for different people?
I'm 40 and if it takes a year it is crap, but I can deal with it, my 41st year likely won't be much different to my 42nd. My life being on hold for that year makes no odds in the grand scheme of things
But if you're 20 or 16, or even 23 and early in your career, a year is seriously long term and missing out on it is a huge deal. So to them, it already is long term.
Myself and two others called off agreed to call off a group ride due to CV19 rules this weekend.
I went out for a solo spin instead and pedalling over the M4 noted that the traffic levels were way down, more like April levels...
As a household We've stuck about as rigidly to the rules throughout as is possible, mainly because MiL (in her 70s) lives with us and my missus is quite keen not to infect and kill her. Unfortunately our kids are still going to school with everyone elses...
LD2 does feel like it's destined to fail already though...
Plus, what’s short term and what’s long term? And is it different for different people?
I’m 40 and if it takes a year it is crap, but I can deal with it, my 41st year likely won’t be much different to my 42nd. My life being on hold for that year makes no odds in the grand scheme of things
But if you’re 20 or 16, or even 23 and early in your career, a year is seriously long term and missing out on it is a huge deal. So to them, it already is long term.
and if you are 60 - 70 then that's another year out of your 'no so many left' allowance, so its also a biggy for those people.
I do hope everyone stopped by police gives the Cummings-Eyetest defence, though.
It just makes his position a little more insecure every time someone does it.
Last time round .. people had been scared to death by the pictures from Italian intensive care wards.
If anything the second wave has been worse round here. Mrs reports her hospital has 150 staff off work in isolation. They have patients on trolleys for days because they are trying to isolate wards that have Covid positive cases.
She came home in tears the other night after she lost a walk-in patient in their 30s to Covid and had to tell their mum over the phone.
We are currently isolating yet again, because she may now be infected and we are waiting for test results.
and if you are 60 – 70 then that’s another year out of your ‘no so many left’ allowance, so its also a biggy for those people.
Correct.
The people who are most fed up are the one's breaking the simple rules.
I'm frankly fed up with rules being broken or bent to suit idiots and yes they are idiots.
My friend is nursing on covid free wards in a building away from our local hospital. These wards are no longer covid free. These wards contain people over 65 who've had surgery or medical procedures. These wards are there to protect them while they recover. These patients have nowhere to go now. My friend is so stressed.
The Dominic Cummings excuse is wearing thin also. I think he is a selfish dick. however I didn't see his inconsiderate actions and think - "Oh you know what, I'm not going to abide by the rules now."
We had the misfortune to have to use a bus on Saturday. My husband asked the elderly ,chin mask wearing chap who sat opposite us (even though there are clear instructions on correct places to sit and wear a mask),To put his mask on and sit in a seat without a big red cross on the side. he started shouting right at us. This is the very type that may find he doesn't find a space in a hospital in the future if he needs one.
We've been in some sort of 'Lock down, tier 3' type thing here in Stockport for nearly all the months since March. Just for a few weeks do the RIGHT THING.
You lot do realise you ain't seen nothing yet don't you?
We are officially in lockdown, but... a vaccine is on every news story and website.
Lockdown is now over for the morons, you must know that.
But, whether it’s right or not, people are weighing up the risks v’s reward. And for a good few people that means bending or breaking the rules.
The thing is, if everyone decided not to bother at all we really would be in the shit - hospitals utterly overwhelmed etc
And not only are the non-observers not grateful to those of us who do try, many of them are actively scornful/mocking of the 'sheeple' being told what to do.
But at the same time I do find the constant shifting of the rules in seemingly arbitrary ways pretty bewildering/disengaging.
The Dominic Cummings excuse is wearing thin also.
A million times this - it's obviously been incredibly damaging to social cohesion and compliance but also people need to grow up and do the right thing
Just got back from ASDA. My estimate earlier was on the money, I did a mental tally and people wearing masks correctly was a shade over 50%. No particular demographic stood out, it was across the board - age, gender, ethnicity, customers and staff alike. Did seem to be skewed towards middle-aged blokes for sporting the Rock Out With Your Conk Out look I suppose.
If we knew exactly how long we needed the restrictions for people would get more behind it. But no, day 1 of the lockdown Gove is already saying it may go on longer,
That's the lack of crystal balls for you.
people need to grow up
I typed exactly that earlier and deleted it cos I couldn't phrase it in a way that didn't read as though I was attacking posters here.
"You" is a tricksy little word, I generally don't mean someone personally when I use it.
The Dominic Cummings excuse is wearing thin also. I think he is a selfish dick. however I didn’t see his inconsiderate actions and think – “Oh you know what, I’m not going to abide by the rules now.”
Me neither but I hope it gets trotted out a lot by others. Because I hate him.
the actual word you're looking for is "one" although I suspect it's never been uttered by a Northerner in that context in all of recorded history...“You” is a tricksy little word, I generally don’t mean someone personally when I use it.
I don’t act based on the advice and reasoning Cummings gave in the gardens of Downing Street… but many thousands do. That can’t be surprising to any one. He was fully supported by the people running the country and in charge of our national response and guidance.
I ask myself the same on the motorway at 70mph when constantly being overtaken.
It’s fine to rant and rave but you are not understanding how people think. Each assesses risk differently. Some assess it in a very selfish way others are more altruistic. The 80mph people only see their angle. It’s something we have to accept in a liberal society even though we don’t like it.
Speeding, litter, covid hygiene .. you name it. They all suffer the same.
She came home in tears the other night after she lost a walk-in patient in their 30s to Covid and had to tell their mum over the phone.
Until tragedies like this get more media attention, the message won't get through.
That’s the lack of crystal balls for you.
I don't think anyone expects exact predictions but it would be nice to feel like there was some kind of medium/long-term strategy going on rather than just lurching from STAY AT HOME to GET BACK TO YOUR OFFICES AND GO OUT FOR MEALS to WELL, STAY AT HOME MOSTLY IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT.
The only priority seems to be do try and do the least unpopular thing.
Until tragedies like this get more media attention, the message won’t get through.
The government are being very cagey about stuff like this because they know they are carrying the can for this now. Much easier to show scary stuff from foreign hospitals.
The only priority seems to be do try and do the least unpopular thing.
A million times this. The shallow frauds that are the modern conservatives are only really concerned, right now, with not being remembered as the 'government that cancelled Christmas'. There will be a relaxation of the rules for about three weeks over the festive period come what may.
Then it'll be another 'lockdown' which isn't really a lockdown. And that will happily coincide with a certain stupid self-inflicted event to distract attention.
I don’t think anyone expects exact predictions but it would be nice to feel like there was some kind of medium/long-term strategy going on
Exactly.
Don’t have Gove on the TV on day 1 of lockdown saying it may be longer. That suggests the 4 weeks was plucked out of the air. At least give it 2 weeks and then say the measures aren’t working and we now need to extend.
And yes, the government do want to be the party who saved Christmas and who then deliver a no deal under the cover of Covid.
the actual word you’re looking for is “one” although I suspect it’s never been uttered by a Northerner in that context in all of recorded history…
I use it in posts sometimes but yeah, it feels a bit odd. Spoken is less ambiguous because 'you' (people) and 'you' (whom I'm addressing) are not homophones in Northern.
I don’t think anyone expects exact predictions but it would be nice to feel like there was some kind of medium/long-term strategy going on
Sure. The UK and US have both handled this very badly. But it's a reactive situation. R goes up, liberties go down and vice versa. A failure to predict people being dicks* skews the situation.
(* - wholly predictable and another Boris-up.)
Until tragedies like this get more media attention, the message won’t get through.
That's a whole other omnishambles isn't it. Where's the media campaign, where's the simulations of how aerosols spread? Folk are just complacent. I had a conversation with our head of IT recently around getting a cybersecurity message across, he was like "well, we don't want to frighten people..." and I replied "I absolutely want to frighten people".
I remember a previous time where we were facing down a poorly understood new virus and the handling then was rather different:
If you can put a prophylactic on your old chap then you can put one on your face without screaming about your civil liberties.
It's not really a lockdown that's why.
It's a softdown at best.
It’s not really a lockdown that’s why.
It’s a softdown at best.
You'd have thought, given an 80 seat majority and their roister-doistering nationalistic tub thumping, that this was a confident and strong government that would impose a proper lockdown.
Alas not. And for two major, inextricably linked, reasons.
1. They know how much they have 'achieved' by lying and eroding the trust of the electorate in 'the establishment'. This is counterproductive when it comes to implementing unpopular policies.
2. They have an utterly cynical view of the world. Nothing is decided without first considering how it 'looks'. It is all about brinkmanship, can kicking, kicking over traces and keeping potential opponents off balance.
I still can't quite get off the fence with this.
I understand another lockdown is needed, even if the government didn't. I get the need for face masks, even if the government didn't originally ( I see a pattern here...) and yes everyone should be doing everything they can to help prevent transmission while vaccines/cures/whatever are researched and tested, I'm obviously a lefty snowflake in that regards.
The problem I personally have is the seeming lack of logical thought and crystal clear guidance that would negate a whole lot of some of the issues.
Some examples:
I live alone, but have my kids every other weekend. I'm in a fairly new relationship after marriage breakdown and she lives with her son (dad is nowhere in the picture). She is in a support bubble with her parents, so I can't form a bubble with her to be able to be indoors with her. So if we want to se each other we have to be outside. Would 'bending' this rule realistically make a difference if we're both sensible? Surely the grown ups in government can come up with clear guidance to allow this sort of thing, thus people less likely to decide to just ignore the rules?
Yet I have my kids stay with me, they are still at school in their class/year (cant remember which) bubble with other kids from other house holds. that's ok though, "cos keep the schools open!" But those same kids, who are together all day at school, aren't allowed to socialise outside of school hours as its only 1 person meeting up. WTF?!
I agree with a lot of what crazyjenkins says. I guess the problem is allowing responsible adults in a relationship to form a bubble then gives a gateway for all the irresponsible adults to abuse it, sadly
The big failure of the government this time around has been a failure to repeat the warnings from Whitty etc in the summer that to keep schools open - a good thing - we would have to sacrifice other things - effectively our social lives, with the knock on to the businesses that rely on it.
The aim is to minimise the infection risks between bubbles. So my kids spend the whole day in their bubble at school. What they shouldn't be doing is then mixing with friends/kids in other bubbles out of school - hence sports and other activities have had to stop.
My daughter goes to a different school to her friends here in the village. She probably only managed to meet up with those friends once since they went back to school in September.
Anecodote of the day from me: This moning I got contacted on Facebook marketplace from someone wanting to travel over 2hrs from England to Wales to pick soemthing up. I politely declined, reminded them of the rules, and pointed out that the petrol money they would use would bascially buy them a new one!
Do you think any of the lockdown rules were created without considering the level of compliance expected? If everyone followed the rules perfectly the results would be ahead of governments most optimistic plans
Unfortunately MoreCash, those who would abuse these sorts of things are the ones preventing the responsible people from doing the best they can.
the other side of the coin though is the irresponsible ones, who would abuse it, already are!
I get that the support bubble idea is meant to help people, and I fully support that from a mental health perspective, but at the same time, its potentially damaging as some people have to choose who that bubble will be! Having to choose between, like in my case, parents and a partner!
I just cant believe how many people don't have enough wits to see that a little bit of sensible makes everything easier!
I guess the problem is allowing responsible adults in a relationship to form a bubble then gives a gateway for all the irresponsible adults to abuse it, sadly
And the actions of Dominic Cummings increased the likelihood of non-compliance. Whether a one-off 'what the hell it is only once' breach by someone otherwise following the rules or the total 'to hell with it all I am going to do what I like', his actions legitimised rule breaking.
The big failure of the government this time around has been a failure to repeat the warnings from Whitty etc in the summer that to keep schools open – a good thing – we would have to sacrifice other things – effectively our social lives, with the knock on to the businesses that rely on it.
Unpopular message (or part of message) underplayed again because their cynical worldview rejects genuinely acting in the common interest.
The restrictions in Edinburgh seem to be being followed fairly well by and large - enough so that infection rates have dropped below the thresholds for tier 1 - we are currently in tier 3
Thurmaston shopping centre gets rammed, yesterday included, people so desperate to shop they block the roundabout in desperation to get in. Ever seen air turn blue?
TJ
The restrictions in Edinburgh seem to be being followed fairly well by and large – enough so that infection rates have dropped below the thresholds for tier 1 – we are currently in tier 3
All else aside I think this just reflects a trust in the government to listen to the correct advice, ask the right questions and act in the best interests.
Ignoring political leanings I think even if you are a dyed in the wool unionist it's much easier to trust Nicola than Boris...
Fiddlesticks - we stay in tier 3 ( sturgeons statement ) some tier 3 are going down like us and some tier 3 going up. Some tier 2 going into 3. Lots of hopeful talk and good explanations as to why but I am somewhat miffed
Fiddlesticks – we stay in tier 3 ( sturgeons statement ) some tier 3 are going down like us and some tier 3 going up. Some tier 2 going into 3. Lots of hopeful talk and good explanations as to why but I am somewhat miffed
I'm not talking about details so much as just trust.
Essentially people are being asked to comply as proper "enforcement" isn't possible and could be undesirable.
Sturgeon looks and sounds like she's trying and has demonstrated what happens to MP's who break the rules. [How hard and correct is a different thing]
Boris looks and sounds like he's actively NOT trying and increasing numbers of us including many Tory voters now assume every word he utters is a lie or U turn whilst his friends get pardons or lucrative contracts or positions.
I don't like his politics but honestly I don't think that is very relevant...in the current situation. Sorry to go all Godwin but lots of people didn't like Churchill but they weren't saying the Blitz was a hoax...
This lockdown seems to have changed nothing where I live. Last time I was cycling on empty roads listening to birds singing, this time traffic is the same as before lockdown.
I'm still going out for work (key worker), for bread and milk, and for a weekly shop - that's it. Judging by how many people I see in large groups some others are not taking it at all seriously.
I ask myself the same on the motorway at 70mph when constantly being overtaken.
It’s fine to rant and rave but you are not understanding how people think. Each assesses risk differently. Some assess it in a very selfish way others are more altruistic. The 80mph people only see their angle. It’s something we have to accept in a liberal society even though we don’t like it.
Probably because, at an indicated 70mph you’re actually doing roughly 63mph, while those, like me, who stick at around an indicated 80mph, are actually doing a bit less than 75mph, which is why the police don’t give a shit about anyone driving at that sort of speed, because it spreads vehicles out a lot more, and helps prevent bunching up.
Not unlike people going out for walks in the countryside during lockdown, as I did on Sunday. For a start, because the pub in the village I was starting my walk from was closed, there was room to park; there hasn’t been anywhere at all for the last couple of months when I went there, plus the thirty-odd people I did see had hundreds of acres to spread out in, in fresh air, because some had kids, or dogs, or were different ages and walked at different speeds, so weren’t all bunched up in close proximity to one another, so there was no risk of transmitting anything.
I have noticed a tendency for the media to use telephoto lenses to film people when they’re out and about, which compresses perspective, making groups of people look really bunched up; use a different view, however, like a drone, and all of a sudden people are very much more spread out than the media would have you believe.
Er… that’s the worst explanation of traffic flow I have ever read.
Hers on my little bit of Kent there is a definite uptick in parole wearing masks. Good stuff.
That said, the roads and general people about are far busier than first lock down. Not entirely unexpected though given schools are open etc.
The restrictions in Edinburgh seem to be being followed fairly well by and large – enough so that infection rates have dropped below the thresholds for tier 1 – we are currently in tier 3
Plenty of people coming into peebles from the north with bikes strapped to them. Clearly they could be from anywhere but.... I think everywhere immediately north and in the "quick trip to GT/Inners" is now in tier 3.
We went out walking on Saturday to make the most of the break in the constant rain. Never seen it so busy. Loads of people out, including in large groups.
The nice country pub at the top of our road, which has been taking a somewhat liberal interpretation of lockdown rules all along, had set up an outside bar and were selling 'take-away' beers. They just also happened to have filled their car park up with picnic tables too. It was absolutely rammed.
The police eventually turned up and shut them down
Er… that’s the worst explanation of traffic flow I have ever read.
Ever been on a busy motorway for an extended section of 50mph roadworks?
Every vehicle can do 50, you all travel as one big rolling road block which makes it a nightmare to get over for your exit if you are navigating by road signs which typically give you about a mile's warning of the junction.
And then someone decides to adjust their esspresso machine or something and drifts down to 40mph, which somehow slows every lane down.
Plenty of people coming into peebles from the north with bikes strapped to them. Clearly they could be from anywhere but…. I think everywhere immediately north and in the “quick trip to GT/Inners” is now in tier 3.
During lockdown #1 when scottish trail centres closed I heard there was plenty of scottish flags on the vans parked at Thrunton just south of the border 😉
School has asked parents to wear masks to pickup – around a quarter are not bothering. I frankly find this pathetic.
Must be a high percentage of idiots where you live. I've done the school drop off/pickup since half term ended and without fail, every single parent except the odd one has had a mask on both in the playground and many keeping them on outside on the streets around school as well.
Same with supermarkets - apart from the very rare occassion, everyone and I mean everyone has had masks on.
Must be a high percentage of idiots where you live. I’ve done the school drop off/pickup since half term ended and without fail, every single parent except the odd one has had a mask on both in the playground and many keeping them on outside on the streets around school as well.
Why are they idiots?
If their kids are in school then its just a matter of time as to when they get SARS-Cov19 delivered at home. The risk of transmission from them being outside is orders of magnitude lower than kids being locked in a stuffy classroom where they are prevented from even wearing masks.
Probably because, at an indicated 70mph
A better analogy is you're driving the wrong way down the motorway at an indicated 69 mph but when you get stopped you say "but I was under the speed limit".
If their kids are in school then its just a matter of time as to when they get SARS-Cov19 delivered at home.
Not necessarily.
