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Slightly off topic but get a bread bag to help extend the shelf life of your bread.
https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73441/lakeland-drawstring-bread-storage-bag-36-x-46cm
Works a treat on keeping my sourdough loaves fresh, especially as they have no oil/fat in them.
In terms of nice bread flours, sainsburys do one which is lovely, experiment with the quantity that you use and mix it with strong white flour. Anything by Doves Farm is also good.
Enjoy, I bake bread twice a week. No bread maker but I do have a kitchen mixer with a dough hook attachment. I get my yeast from Amazon, it's called fermipan red and is 500g. Once open, I keep it in the fridge and it lasts for ages.
I might be rubbish at biscuits and cakes but bread I can do 🙂
100% on the breadbag - far better than a tupperwear box - bread sweats bag breaths . the tupperwear box i found encouraged mould.
Thanks to you Cougar I've just blown £179 on the YR2540 (direct from Panasonic) and I'll hold you personally responsible if it disnae work out 😎
🤣
It's here. It's larger than I anticipated!
I have to go out now. Botheration.
Do those bread bags work better than a normal ziplock? I'd never heard of them before now
They breath. Zip locks don't.
Bread sweats even when fully cooled .
Moisture trapped causes mould.
Cougar, you should be able to bake one loaf over night, we'll all expect a slice in the morning 😉
100% on the breadbag - far better than a tupperwear box
Mine is a bread specific one and has a breathable bit in the top. It's working pretty well so far.
Cougar, you should be able to bake one loaf over night, we'll all expect a slice in the morning
I have something of a busy few days.
To whet your appetite, it came with a QR code which links to here:
https://experience-fresh.panasonic.eu/
Now just going down a rabbit hole....thanks;)
I think I must be alone in this but this all seems like a lot of effort to make something when you could buy a really decent one from the bakers! Are they really worth this much effort? Cant believe the cost is that much better either.
Mind you I'm equally as bemused by the pizza oven thread - I bought one but never used it as was just too much hassle to cook a couple of pizzas where are home made ones are perfectly adequate in the oven and ready in 8 mins.
Think both might have to wait until I'm retired and need some more hobbies.
(And yes, this is partly just an attempt for someone to convince me I need a new gadget 😄)
I think I must be alone in this but this all seems like a lot of effort to make something when you could buy a really decent one from the bakers! Are they really worth this much effort? Cant believe the cost is that much better either.
Mind you I'm equally as bemused by the pizza oven thread - I bought one but never used it as was just too much hassle to cook a couple of pizzas where are home made ones are perfectly adequate in the oven and ready in 8 mins.
Think both might have to wait until I'm retired and need some more hobbies.
(And yes, this is partly just an attempt for someone to convince me I need a new gadget 😄)
it’s really not much effort though, i just chuck the ingredients in the breadmaker before bed put a delay timer on it and bingo fresh bread in the morning which is much nicer than the supermarket stuff. Not counting the cost of the breadmaker itself its much less per loaf than anything but the cheapest stuff from a supermarket and much nicer.
I think I must be alone in this but this all seems like a lot of effort to make something when you could buy a really decent one from the bakers! Are they really worth this much effort? Cant believe the cost is that much better either.
It's significantly less hassle than going to a bakery. Even if you live next door to one.
Like many similar things there's a bit of a faff barrier at the start while you figure out what's what, but once you're over that it's about 2 mins of activity to set up a bread machine. As good as or better than 95% of bought bread, and over time you can change the recipe to suit yourself.
something when you could buy a really decent one from the bakers!
Maybe if you live in a town or a village with a decent/any bakers. - Last time i ventured to the bread guy it was 7 quid for a loaf.
16kilos of Canadian strong bread flour 19 quid
Yeast - 6.40
1.4Kg of butter = 10 quid
1kg of 5 seed mix = 6 quid
Salt - <1 quid
Sugar <1 quid
= 1.35 a loaf. + 4-6 pence of electric and between 5 minutes prep.
the smell of fresh baked bread when you wake. - priceless.
Could be cheaper if i compromised on ingredients or had more storage - ie 25Kg of flour is cheaper, Dried yeast not fresh organic
We started for more control over what goes into our foods following listening to the BBC sliced bread podcast last year about what all goes into your average shop loaf and ISNT listed on the ingredients - and our kids eat a lot of bread - lunch times + jam sandwiches + with soup etc etc.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-13670278 - condensed version of the podcast really - but beware its a fair rabbit hole - watch your sources lots of vested in non chorleywood process protagonists writing "facts"
MY family are also predisposed to late mid life coeliac and there's a train of thought that the chorleywood process has a high correlation to gut biome dysregulation so I'm trying to pre-empt that to some extent.
Any yes i still drink beer - but i drink less beer than I eat bread and pizza
Mind you I'm equally as bemused by the pizza oven thread - I bought one but never used it as was just too much hassle to cook a couple of pizzas where are home made ones are perfectly adequate in the oven and ready in 8 mins.
Path of least resistance then?
Home made bread and pizza's [can] both taste much better than those from a shop. Sometimes you have to put some effort in.
(I use a mixer and an oven to do my bread as I think it gives better results than a machine - but I believe the latter is barely any harder than making a cup of tea)
It was briefly mentioned above, but what chance would there be of turning out a good gluten free loaf from one of these?
yes we used to do alot for my old man .
xanthan gum and gluten free flour - with Milk and eggs.
i have NEVER had good results from a prepackaged mix - i tried a few and always ended up with solid lumps of "bread" you could kill someone with.
I used to use the below based on a recommendation from my dad who made his own bread as shop bought gluten free bread was always awful unless toasted.
https://www.sparklesintheeveryday.com/2015/02/gluten-free-bread-made-in-a-bread-machine.html
I can eat that bread it actually feels normal.
Be sure to clean up fastidiously if your making bread for a coeliac - if your doing it regular you really want a dedicated machine just for it as even residual cross contamination can be a major issue for some coeliacs.
A couple of suggestions on the added ingredients; we use 3 tablespoons of rapeseed oil instead of butter in our Panasonic, plus use dark brown sugar to feed the yeast, instead of white. Sometimes a couple of tablespoons of oats will go in; other times, it might be a cup or two of spelt or 1/2 a one of rye flours. it's fun to tray changes, once you've got the basics dialled in.
You can also use the machine to make a rich fruit loaf very easily, with chopped apricots, dates, sultanas....oats and loads of oil & dark brown sugar. It ain't bread but it's fabulous eating.
Need to get ours out - I'll have a crack at the ciabatta recipe. Thanks @slowol
Anyone successfully made soda or corn bread in theirs? Or used sourdough starter?
we use 3 tablespoons of rapeseed oil instead of butter in our Panasonic, plus use dark brown sugar to feed the yeast, instead of white.
The butter/oil is purely there to help the loaf last a bit longer - doesn't matter which you use (I use rapeseed oil too). I never use sugar, instant yeast is fine without it.
(My bible is the very good Paul Holywood "How to Bake" book - no sugar in his bread recipes.)
I might try brown sugar actually, could be interesting with wholemeal flour.
I never use sugar, instant yeast is fine without it.
(My bible is the very good Paul Holywood "How to Bake" book - no sugar in his bread recipes.)
Actually maybe you need it* for a bread machine because everything is timed and the dough 'has' to be risen in a certain timeframe - so the yeast is fed artificially to make it work within the given timeframe. 🤷♂️
Making bread by hand gives more flexibility in the timing.
* see what I did there?
I might try brown sugar actually, could be interesting with wholemeal flour.
Or use a malted flour (my fave).
(I use a mixer and an oven to do my bread as I think it gives better results than a machine - but I believe the latter is barely any harder than making a cup of tea)
I'm working on the principle that the best camera is the one you have with you. I could use a mixer and our dying oven to potentially make better bread, but the truth of the matter is that I won't.
what chance would there be of turning out a good gluten free loaf from one of these?
There is a section on gluten free bread in the book that comes with it. Whether they're any good remains to be seen. There are caveats about rise &c but I suppose that's true of all GF bread?
Be sure to clean up fastidiously if your making bread for a coeliac - if your doing it regular you really want a dedicated machine just for it
You can probably just get a second baking tin & paddle rather than a whole new machine.
Now trying to remember if I usually put sugar in (it's been a while since I've used it...). Brown sugar a good tip and we have a massive bag acquired during the pandemic that's going down too slowly...
AIUI you have to put some sugar in it for the yeast to eat.
AIUI you have to put some sugar in it for the yeast to eat.
No you don't - the yeast uses the starches in the flour.
But, as I said before, if you're using a machine (rather than really making the bread 😉) then I guess you have to be sure that the dough has risen before the machine starts its next cycle ..... so sugar is added to artificially speed up the process.
But, as I said before, if you're using a machine (rather than really making the bread
) then I guess you have to be sure that the dough has risen before the machine starts its next cycle ..... so sugar is added to artificially speed up the process.
I think it varies with which programme it's on. There's 'quick' programmes which don't have a rest and then longer cycles that do.
You can probably just get a second baking tin & paddle rather than a whole new machine.
The coeliacs I know would run a mile from that "solution" - there's far too much risk of crumbs in the machine, however careful you are taking the tin out.
FWIW I ended up giving my breadmaker away - the bread was fine, but I don't really eat enough of the stuff and the machine was gathering dust in a cupboard. Having read the thread I am feeling vaguely inspired to make some by hand, though 🙂
The coeliacs I know would run a mile from that "solution" - there's far too much risk of crumbs in the machine, however careful you are taking the tin out.
Fair. I know several gluten-intolerant people but no actual full-blown Coeliacs so I wouldn't know.
No you don't - the yeast uses the starches in the flour.
Do let us know when you get a machine and try it out.
Our new machine arrived this morning and was immediately put to use. Thought it best to go with the basic bread recipe for starters, went for a small loaf with medium crust, only change from the recipe was reducing the sugar from 1 tablespoon to 1 teaspoon (as some reviews mentioned). Only problem was keeping my paws off it for half an hour when it had finished baking to let it cool, then stuffed our faces with a couple of slices with just butter yummeeeeeee. Then bacon sarnies for tea. On the scoffability index I reckon 10/10. Just need to get another set up on the timer now ready for tomorrow morning.
I forgot to add sugar once and it made no difference so I stopped bothering.
This is with some type of whole meal in there and using the longer wholemeal program so you may get different results with white only.
No you don't - the yeast uses the starches in the flour.
Do let us know when you get a machine and try it out.
I've got a machine (somewhere)... I don't use it as I find the bread I make by hand is nicer as I can give it a longer proving time allowing flavour to develop.
I also like a dark and crispy crust so I go for higher temperatures and use steam in the oven.
Maybe you could make a loaf without sugar and see how it goes? I believe the sugar also helps the loaf get colour at the lower temperature a bread machine bakes at.
But I do know that you don't need to add sugar for bread baked in the oven.
But I do know that you don't need to add sugar for bread baked in the oven.
indeed. But the thread is about breadmakers . Not bread makers.
Making bread In the oven is time consuming and the machine means it gets done more often. I still do my sour dough in the oven without sugar funnily enough.
It was briefly mentioned above, but what chance would there be of turning out a good gluten free loaf from one of these?
Yes, but like almost everything gluten free it depends on your expectations. It's difficult to get everything right, making it smart to choose where the compromises are going to be- so frinstance I use a glutafin premix which reliably makes a loaf that tastes good and rises well, but basically doesn't handle like bread, it has an odd foamy texture, definitely more "cakey" than "breadey". Once you're used to it it's good but it can be offputting at first just because of weird mouthfeel and reaction, your mouth knows what bread should feel like.
(a depressing amount of gf products focus on look and feel and taste like mdf)
A cheat code here is the glutafin "select" mixes but not everyone can use them. They are codex alimentarius (*) approved gluten free but that doesn't actually mean 100% gluten free, it means you're under the parts-per-million. That tiny amount of gluten should be OK for most coeliacs but if you require or insist on true 0%, it's not that. But anyway, even that tiny amount is enough to help make a better bread. The white mix and fibre mix both reliably make a good loaf, and they're the best everyday options I've used and also can be got on prescription if you've lucked out in the GF postcode lottery.
I'd say the best shop-bought loaves, like the Promise multiseed, are a bit better but they're also quite expensive, and choice is good. I make the glutafin loaves probably about 2/3ds of the time and get the Promise the rest of the time, or a few others like M&S Oaty Loaf.
Aside but here is where my panasonic machine is a wee bit annoying, it's all presets and definitely "Knows best". An extra 10 minutes in teh bake cycle would be better for me but there's no preset that'll allow that and there's no "+10" option. Ah well.
The coeliacs I know would run a mile from that "solution" - there's far too much risk of crumbs in the machine, however careful you are taking the tin out.
With my Panasonic the risk would be zero tbh unless you're getting crumbs stuck to the roof of the machine or something, you'd have to really make an effort to create contamination. Except maybe if you're putting something gluten-containing in a seed dropper.
(* Codex Alimentarius always makes me smile, that's some 90s warhammer shit right there. "I've got the new space wolves codex mate, what have you brought" "2000 points of rice-flour based breadsticks". THE CODEX GLUTANICUS DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS ACTION!
With my Panasonic the risk would be zero tbh unless you're getting crumbs stuck to the roof of the machine or something, you'd have to really make an effort to create contamination. Except maybe if you're putting something gluten-containing in a seed dropper.
It's the "make an effort" and the "except maybe" bits that matter 🙂 Sure, in practice they'll almost certainly be fine, but if it comes down to forgoing a bit of bread or risking a week of intestinal pain, IME they'll go for the former. (Or at least the two coeliac friends I have would; it's quite possible they're not representative, and are particularly risk-averse!)
Yeha basically I just think I could make a thousand loaves in my machine and get exactly zero cross contamination, it's a metal bucket at the end of the day, how you get crumbs to a) come out of the bucket and stay in teh machine adn then b) somehow get from the machine into the new bucket, short of deliberately spooning stuff across, I don't know.
An extra 10 minutes in teh bake cycle would be better for me but there's no preset that'll allow that and there's no "+10" option. Ah well.
Does the delayed start timer button not do that post-bake? (I've only skim-read the instructions and yours may be different anyway.)
Using the machine for dough and then baking it yourself is a great way to get a decent shaped loaf. The breadmaker tin is a rubbish shape, so you end up with slices that don't fit in anything. I presume this is because its shape is part of the mixing process. You can get mixers with two paddles in a longer thinner tin but they are pretty rare and it's inconclusive if they help or not.
But baking it yourself is still a huge faff. Each individual step is trivially easy but you have to monitor it and remember to come back in your 45 mins and then you're forever thinking 'has it doubled in size? Do you mean volume or external dimension?' when the blob is a different shape and you can't remember exactly when you made it and if it's warmer in the kitchen than it was last time and so on. It's a fun technical process but sometimes you just want a slice of toast for your egg.
Does the delayed start timer button not do that post-bake?
No, it just delays the start by 10 min.
The delay function is quite useful - means you can set it up to have fresh bread at breakfast time but it doesn’t work with things like brioche which just don’t rise.
I use the timer to make bread that's ready for breakfast. If I make during the day then by the following day's breakfast it's 12-15hrs old and not as good.
Thanks for the comments on Gluten free. Fortunately, it’s just a mild intolerance, so cross contamination wouldn’t be an issue.
Just leave the bread in the machine and extra 10 after the beeps it'll continue to cook. Elements still red hot when you open it at the beep
indeed. But the thread is about breadmakers .
Which is why I came back as said that maybe you do need sugar in a machine 🙄