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It seems Panasonic has a factory outlet.
Whoops.
A YR2540 arrives next week. What do I need to know? Should I go stock up on strong bread flour? Bread mix for a foolproof first attempt?
Moreover, anyone have any favourite recipes they'd care to share?
Cheers.
Not entirely sure what advantage you'd get from using a bread mix as it's a fairly simple recipe. Here's a few thoughts from my experience:
- go for whatever yeast you find in the supermarket that sounds like it'll be easiest to use. It'll be called something like easy-bake or instant-action or suchllke. Maybe the other stuff might taste diferent or whatever but it's something to experiment with further down the line.
- Weighing water is much easier than using the wee plastic measuring jug.
- The bigger loaf sizes just mean a taller loaf. If you plan on toasting the bread this is not advantageous unless you also happen to have a toaster that can accommodate such slices.
- try and keep the salt/yeast apart in the mix when it first goes in. High salt concentrations can mess with the yeast so dumping them both in together can sometimes result in disappointing bread.
My standard recipe (add ingredients to pan in this order:
- 280g water
- 1tbsp oil
- a sachet of yeast (or a teaspoon and a bit)
- 200-300g string white flour
- make up to 400g total with AN other wholesome bready flour
- 7g salt
Pop it on the wholemeal setting overnight.
We've had a Panasonic for years (decades now).
Im generally pretty boring and just do plain loaves, nowt fancy.(don't thing the seed dispenser has ever dispensed seeds in the 15+ years!).
Absolutely as per stevieus, keep the salt and yeast separate. Usual method is yeast in 1st, then all the flour, then the other stuff (butter, salt, sugar) last before adding the water. That way they are kept separate until mixing, and then the yeast doesn't get overwhelmed by the salt.
Ive found over the years I can get away with less salt - I find the full normal recipe too salty - lovely, but too salty - like commercial bread Smith all the hidden salt.
Always found thr pre-mix a tad disappointing compared to just doing it myself for some reason.
Happy bread making.
One final thing you'll find is that if you don't eat it within 2 or 3 days it can go off / get moldy quicker - as it's not bunged full of chamical preservatives unlike shop bought bread.
- go for whatever yeast you find in the supermarket that sounds like it'll be easiest to use. It'll be called something like easy-bake or instant-action or suchllke.
Nicely, ta. I bought a tub which said "suitable for bread makers"? (I think it might be 'easy bake' yes.) This model has a yeast dispenser, if that makes any difference to anything.
I like the idea of a 'best of both'-a-like. Following (don't ask) government regulation changes, we're trying to wean the Smalls onto wholemeal bread and brown rice/pasta. That might be a useful stepping-stone.
Ive found over the years I can get away with less salt
I'll probably be using "LoSalt," if that matters?
I used to use doves malthouse flour, it made such a nice loaf that I could easily go through a loaf and a pack of butter in a day.
I didn't have my breadmaker for long as it was a clear health hazard for me.
We have had a similar Panasonic bread maker for a couple of years.
The instructions have a bunch of recipes that work perfectly. The basic bread has you put the yeast in first then flour then salt, I've never thought about why until now.
The only loaves that haven't worked
I used cold water- needs to be half boiled half tap water
My wife forgot the water- we have small kids and someone was screaming about something
We often add walnuts and honey
The tall loaves get cut in half before toasting so the XL lasts twice as long as the medium
It's my favourite kitchen gadget 🙂
Slightly off topic but get a bread bag to help extend the shelf life of your bread.
https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73441/lakeland-drawstring-bread-storage-bag-36-x-46cm
Works a treat on keeping my sourdough loaves fresh, especially as they have no oil/fat in them.
In terms of nice bread flours, sainsburys do one which is lovely, experiment with the quantity that you use and mix it with strong white flour. Anything by Doves Farm is also good.
Enjoy, I bake bread twice a week. No bread maker but I do have a kitchen mixer with a dough hook attachment. I get my yeast from Amazon, it's called fermipan red and is 500g. Once open, I keep it in the fridge and it lasts for ages.
I might be rubbish at biscuits and cakes but bread I can do 🙂
I wouldn't worry about the salt content, the amount per slice is tiny. We find that good quality stone ground flour rises better.
We chuck in the basic loaf mix (small scoop yeast, 400g flour, big scoop sugar, small scoop salt, 20g butter, 280g water) on a Friday evening delay start to 3am wake to fresh bread Saturday, loaf gone Sunday.
I use less salt than the recipe not for health reasons but because you can taste it and Mrs 100th complained of thirst. Weighing the water simplifies things too.
Never used a pre-mix don't see the point the recipies work so well.
Just realised i should hev use it to make the dough for my chelsea buns which were a disaster.
Don't try and dig the paddle out of the loaf with a metal knife, non stick coatings are delicate. Obvious really, but still...
Don't try and dig the paddle out of the loaf with a metal knife, non stick coatings are delicate. Obvious really, but still...
Or force the paddle off the spindle, soak in water first and gently pull before washing and use a cloth for that job not a brush.
Ours came with a recipe book, seems to mostly work fine until we absent mindedly forget an ingredient, no problems with using cold water, but yeast is dispensed separately so guess that might be a reason.
Makes great pizza dough but pretty noisy in doing so.
Just follow the instructions to the letter first time with an ordinary loaf.
I tend to swap the butter in the standard recipe for sunflower oil and use less salt than it says without and significant I'll effect.
The loaf sized 'ciabatta' recipe in the Panasonic book is worth trying. Not ciabatta by any stretch but a good crusty loaf.
Olive and seeded bread are good.
Never tried any of the cake recipes in the book.
Yeast that's been open a long time doesn't work well. As I don't use ours so regularly any more I buy yeast in sachets not tubs to reduce this issue.
Is the bread made with these things suitable for freezing?
You can also get seeded bread flour, there are loads, enjoy. In the booklet there was a recipe for Chelsea buns, the machine does the doh mix you do the rest, trouble is they taste so good fresh, so you need to eat in 24 hrs, hence not so healthy;)
Doves quick yeast for me.
50:50 strong white and strong wholemeal.
Warm water helps too, especially if doing the Quick loaf recipe.
Freezes fine - if it lasts that long.
I've stopped adding seeds after I found that they were scratching the non-stick of the tin
Hardly ever buy bread from the shops anymore, this is so much nicer and healthier.
Is the bread made with these things suitable for freezing?
Absolutely. From my experience it’s best to slice it before you freeze it and post-freezer it’s much better toasted than soft.
Don't try and dig the paddle out of the loaf with a metal knife, non stick coatings are delicate. Obvious really, but still...
We have a special pair of needle nose pliers for this scenario. Knipex obviously 😀
We buy our flour from Shipton Mill. Vast range, but we usually get a 25Kg of Organic wholemeal and a 25Kg of white, plus a malted grain type one. Bread is a mix. Sometimes 300g wholemeal and 200g white. Other times 400g wholemeal and 100g white. I rarely make 100% wholemeal.
Machine is a Panasonic, Van is T5 and coffee machine is a Bravilor filter (+an Aeropress). Not sure if that makes me a fully qualified STW member?
TTIUWP
As a result of this I am now going to be looking at bread makers… presumably they’re cheaper than coffee machines….😬
In terms of nice bread flours, sainsburys do one which is lovely, experiment with the quantity that you use and mix it with strong white flour.
Wait, "strong" flour and "bread" flour are different things?
As a result of this I am now going to be looking at bread makers… presumably they’re cheaper than coffee machines….
I paid £160 for the top-of-the-range model (strangely, the YR2540 is the model up from the YR2550). It lists the RRP on the outlet store as £199 which is the same as the 'discounted' price on John Lewis, and it's £240 on the main Panasonic site.
Try not to forget to replace the stirrer after cleaning it. The resulting bread is quite disappointing.
I have a stick blender with a mash attachment. My partner lent it to her daughter one time, came back "it's rubbish." She'd neglected to include the blade...
I paid £160 for the top-of-the-range model (strangely, the YR2540 is the model up from the YR2550).
Very reasonable. I noticed the oddness in the model number. The 50 has one more program by the looks of it - 32 instead of 31 or something…
Have had the same Panasonic for a couple years
Bread Flour (fresh) yeast and 5 seed mix comes from Skipton in bulk - store the 16kg flour in a blue barrel . We do 6-8 loafs a week (family of 5)
380g water (weigh it far more accurate than. Jug and water content makes or breaks your bread)
550g bread flour
40g of butter OR olive oil
Tsp of rock salt
Half a tbs of sugar
7 TBS of 5 seed mix in the seed dispenser.
Setting 4 XL and go. -then wonder if you have an intruder in an hour's time when the seed tray goes wild.
Buy a decent bread knife if you don't already have one.
Does surprisingly good jam using frozen wonky fruit following the recipe on the pectin bottle.
pizza dough works well in it too. I just use my standard recipe from staedler calc
Not many things are game changers these days. but the bread machine has been for us - gets far more use than the "air" fryer it replaced on the counter top ever did..... Gave that shite away.
- go for whatever yeast you find in the supermarket that sounds like it'll be easiest to use. It'll be called something like easy-bake or instant-action or suchllke.
Nicely, ta. I bought a tub which said "suitable for bread makers"? (I think it might be 'easy bake' yes.) This model has a yeast dispenser, if that makes any difference to anything.
I like the idea of a 'best of both'-a-like. Following (don't ask) government regulation changes, we're trying to wean the Smalls onto wholemeal bread and brown rice/pasta. That might be a useful stepping-stone.
It just occurred to me that depending on your rate of bread production you might want to keep an eye on the shelf life of your yeast. When I started dabbling in sourdough the machine saw less action so the little tin would go off before we got to the bottom. You might be fine but worth bearing in mind.
As for the yeast dispenser, I didn’t even know that was a thing but I imagine it’s a mechanism for keeping salt/yeast separate. Would be interested to hear what the instructions of your machine say.
I have an ancient Panasonic, it's indestructible, I use it basically every 2-3 days without fail and have done for years- gluten free stuff here so my recipes'll be no use but it makes a decent loaf, super easily and consistently.
Had a kenwood before and tbh it made just as good a loaf but it was so obviously engineered like a lot of kitchen goods for occasional use, you were supposed to buy it and use it like 5 times excitedly then put it on a shelf, it disintegrated under constant use.
Panasonics are honestly too solid for their own good, I thought about replacing mine last year but it turned out I could get all the small parts to restore it for not much. It could still be going in another decade at this rate.
Buy a decent bread knife if you don't already have one.
I know I'm going to get lynched for this but, I have a left-handed bread knife.
Had a kenwood before and tbh it made just as good a loaf but it was so obviously engineered like a lot of kitchen goods for occasional use, you were supposed to buy it and use it like 5 times excitedly then put it on a shelf, it disintegrated under constant use.
We went to visit The Boy today, his other half was coincidentally just finishing off baking a loaf... in their breadmaker. I thought "this is relevant to my interests" and went for a nosey. Hers is a Kenwood, similar form factor to the one I've just bought. It used to belong to her nan, it's decades old if it's a day. Seemed to turn out a perfectly good loaf, except she had a mare of a job releasing it from the tin.
Gotta be honest, I'm quite excited now. My other half has just made a batch of home-made jam, and prior to any of this I was idly looking at how to make home-made butter one night for little other reason than curiosity.
That's got to be Cool Factor 9, Mr Sulu hasn't it, even if it all turns out a bit crap.
What do I need to know?
Just expect your waist size to expand, the smell of freshly baked bread and the joy of eating it warm, is the reason we did not replace our extremely well used breadmaker when the seals failed (that and a decent local bakery).
Damn £160, they weren't that expensive when we bought ours... we don't need one, we Really Don'T NEED ONE...
Based on this thread, I dug out our ancient Panasonic (natch!) and shall be firing it up with some none stale flour later this week. It must be 15 years old at least. Only used in bursts... so still looks like new.
oh its worth figuring out how to make Rye bread.... the recipe in the book is crap though - But Rye bread is excellent for any sandwiches with sauerkraut
Theres a panasonic facebook group - the recipe section is excellent with recipes that work.
The recipes in the book "work" but are far too sweet/salty for me to be bread - Maybe its what subway use.
This Cinnamon buns recipe always goes down well for a family breakfast treat.
https://www.food.com/recipe/bread-machine-cinnamon-buns-50722
the change borne by the folic acid guidance ? what's the fear here ? - Genuinely curious as my supplier has not done it yet stating they will do it at the last possible moment as they would prefer not to add anything they don't have to to their flour.
I've been doing this as a means to avoid ultra processed food, using an ancient Panasonic one I got for free from FB.
- Allinson's yeast that comes in a little tin. Keep in fridge as if you have a warm kitchen on a hot day it can hurt it.
- 100% wholemeal is really tasty but make sure you add vitamin C as per the recipe. You can get vitamin C powder from bulk.com
- For wholemeal use extra or very strong flour
- Also 10-20ml more water than the recipe for wholemeal if you find it not rising enough or is a weird shape, but this depends on the exact flour you're using
- The L size fits in the toaster and sandwich toaster better. XL is a weird shape. M (the smallest, perversely) doesn't always rise evenly
- You need fewer slices because the bread is more calorie dense and more filling than shop bought.
- Get a bread box - we got a Tupperware bread-specific one, works a treat.
- Eat lots of toast because like all fresh bread it loses its crusty fluffiness after about 24hrs but makes perfect toast for a week.
Update.
Delivery delayed. Boo! Should be here tomorrow.
My local (generally a bit crap) Tesco has a bewildering array of flour. I picked up one each of Hovis white and wholemeal, I figured that's gotta be a baseline. Then I can work out from there whether it's worth spending money on organic artisan ground wheat or not bothering and sticking to Tesco. It's all just flour, right?
WTF is "very" strong flour? That's a new one on me.
It's all just flour, right?
Not IME but if the cheaper stuff works for you then you may as well take the saving.
WTF is "very" strong flour? That's a new one on me.
More protein per gramme than not-so-strong flour? Not 100% sure but it has helped me make a decent loaf in the machine using a mix of that and some left-over plain (i.e. not bread and/or strong) white flour.
WTF is "very" strong flour? That's a new one on me.
"Strong" flour has a higher protein and gluten content which is good for bread but not for lighter, more delicate baking like cakes. The gluten helps the dough form the right "stickiness" (technical term) and structure during kneading to allow it to rise properly whilst proving without collapsing.
It's all just flour, right?
Ummm... not really - as you will find out!
I buy a massive bag [malted seeded] from Wessex Seedmills - lasts ages and works out much cheaper than going to the supermarket (plus you'll almost never run out just when you want to make a loaf).
Oven FTW by the way 😉
Ummm... not really - as you will find out!
Hence wanting to set a baseline first. I figured Hovis was a reasonable compromise. This is what I was faced with:
The strength of flour means how much gluten is in it. When you make bread, whilst you knead it and let it rise, the gluten is absorbing water and 'developing' into thick gooiness. Then the yeast starts to grow and make bubbles. The more elastic the dough, the bigger the bubbles can get. If you let it rise too much the bubbles start to burst and merge and it will deflate. The more elastic the dough, the less this will happen. More gluten means more risen fluffier bread, but too much and it can get chewy.
With wholemeal bread the roughage gets in the way of the gluten being elastic (think sawdust in Bluetac) so you need to use extra strong wholemeal. You can also add vitamin C which helps the gluten develop (this is what the 'flour improver' evil additive is in shop bread btw).