She's said that she won't keep it.
TA's are underpaid though. Their real incomes have fallen to embarrassing levels in recent years.
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV "is Johnson vindictive" what the answer would be ?
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV “is Johnson vindictive” what the answer would be ?
He doesn’t know if Johnson will step down as PM as soon as a new Conservative leader is chosen.
(that last one stuck hardest… should be the easiest of questions to answer)
To give him dues, I would be vary wary of parroting any line that came out of number 10. I mean, that's a damning indictment of the current situation, but I can understand why Cleverly might be nervous about answering questions like that.
I can understand why Cleverly might be nervous about answering questions like that
Absolutely. Cleverly is not the problem in that interview. He simply does not know the answers to the questions. He can't do. Let's hope we only have days of this... not months.
As for the problem with Channel4... this holds up from August 2019...
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit, that is clearly my never going to happen. And on the plus side it further alienates them from voters – even Tony Blair recognises this.
Is it as futile as getting a lexiter to admit that (thanks to brexit) a weaker economy = more poor people? 😉
Anyway
What happens next for blowhard?
Pincher scandal could well involve the police, there will be more blowback
Secret (not disclosed to FCO) meetings with lebdev snr without his security detail
Cummings says BJ secretly met Lavrov on 20th March 2020 !?!
Investigation into his lying to parliament still going ahead?
And as we are dealing with Johnson, what new scandals will be unearthed in the near future?
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit, that is clearly my never going to happen. And on the plus side it further alienates them from voters – even Tony Blair recognises this.
Apart from in Scotland where we understand the damage brexit is still causing and rejoining the EU is massivly popular
And NI
Also public support for brexit is collapsing
I realise the futility of asking Remain fanatics to stop blaming everything on brexit
By calling people 'Remain Fanatics' you have fallen into the trap expertly laid by the tory party and the right wing media. It's a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
So in this country, people can't talk about how, in fact, Brexit was objectively bad for the economy, without being tagged as mad by an army of people* of people willing to resort to ad hominems without batting an eyelid.
* I say people, what I meant was frothing Brexity peri-racist gammons. (Everyone on both sides of the political discourse all need to be careful not to fall into the same traps).
It is interesting to note that the very people who claimed that the EU did not have an overbearing influence on national governments, and that member states could freely follow their own economic policies, now claim that every single problem the UK is currently facing is the fault of brexit. Who would have thought it?
This is just a distillation of so many of the counterfactual arguments (or lies, if you like) of both left and right leavers. We trade with the EU, It (was) our biggest market, put barriers up to that trade and our economy will suffer. If the economy suffers than that is always passed to the workers to pay and bear the cost
By calling people ‘Remain Fanatics’ you have fallen into the trap expertly laid by the tory party and the right wing media. It’s a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
Yes, this is the "well you didn't believe in it enough" trap.
Slag off Brexit for being a stupid idea from stupid people and the answer is now that Brexit would have worked if only Remoaners had got behind it and *believed*.
The Peter Pan answer.
What actually counts as a "remain fanatic" is the a clear definition.
Oustide of parliament most remain voters just seem to have got on with their lives.
The Peter Pan answer.
Absolutely, the Tinkerbell proposition and blaming the 'vindictive EU' are the only two deflections that people who voted for this have to try to explain why our economic prospects seem so much worse than other G7 nations.
We have chosen to make ourselves poorer and less influential as a nation. Those who might be keen to embark on similar, disastrous projects in future (there is still plenty left to wreck in the name of 'freedom') don't want the population to become more aware of the damage.
Apparently it’s going to charity.
Still.
I posted on this yesterday, it's in the legislation that departing ministers get this 25% 'redundancy payment'. I also believe it is payable whether sacked, resigned, (presume not if reshuffled to an equivalent post but who knows) With all the leavers of jobs of the last few days, the total bill is £420K
My speculation was whether the people being put into post now to keep this sham PM/Gov going - if the 1922 fire him next week, a true caretaker comes in and replaces a load more, are we in for another big redundancy payment?
If it's going to charity, that's one thing I suppose.
Well this remain fanatic sees things pretty clearly. Public services are paid through taxation. The tax take is related to the gross domestic product (income) of the country. The country earns less than it did but services need paying for. Taxes must therefore rise to offset the declining country income. Things happen slower than in your current account but there are some fundamentals here that people happily ignore. Until they pay more taxes.
Leaving the EEA was never originally on the table. And was a choice to be poorer that the current band of tories own. Cameron took us out but Johnson and the ERG really crashed the red bus and are running away. What a legacy and having given up his personal convictions to achieve it.
Scotland voted to stay in the union largely based on economics. England doesn’t understand economics. Thank goodness the GFA provides some feedback system for an eventual rational solution. It’s two PMs away yet.
Speaking to the general public every day, I have to say I'm getting a bit sick of Tory voters in the last 24hrs saying "well he had to go!", "Worst prime minister in my life time!", "It was inevitable that Boris would destroy himself!", "I always knew he would be an awful pm, but he did a good job in the panedmic".....
They all seem to claim that they knew he was going to be terrible but voted him in anyway - my farther in law, just retorts anti Corbyn bs when ever politics are mentioned.
It’s a loaded phrase specifically designed to make people seem slightly unhinged.
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged. Or to be more polite an act of desperation.
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
This ‘care taker’ cabinet is as bent as Boris’ previous cabinet. I’m currently listening to James Cleverley on R4 continuously not answer questions, he simply won’t answer the questions put to him. Oh but guess what, the only question he did answer was that he thinks Boris & Carrie’s wedding party at Chequers on 30th July should be allowed to go ahead…
Same bunch of lying scumbags, slightly different names
So at this point, 8th July, haunted troll doll Johnson claims to be staying on till a successor is found, but let's face it, he's checked out and will do nothing other than wine and cake testing for his wedding bash that we'll pay for at the house he's used more than any other PM.
The actual cost of Carries god awful taste in wallpaper has been leaked and we paid for £3500 drinks trolley
https://twitter.com/SholaMos1/status/1545326117808119808?s=20&t=6OrXnd9BKdTpkKP8yjXl4Q
How has this pair of grifters not been dragged out of No.10 by their ankles at this point by a braying mob who are wondering how to pay their gas bills this winter?
Well this remain fanatic sees things pretty clearly. Public services are paid through taxation. The tax take is related to the gross domestic product (income) of the country
No they're not.
The money is issued effectively by the bank of England through the consolidated fun account and government spending is paid before any tax take with the newly created money.
Tax merely removes money out of circulation. The difference is the deficit which is matched by bond issuance. Bond issuance is just a safe place for the private sector to put money - this is called the national debt and is not a debt in the same way you or I know a debt.
Bond issuance is also a swap of reserves (non interest bearing v interest bearing) which is supposed to help control interest rates.
How else do you think money gets into the economy? (As well as commercial bank lending.)
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
Made worse by the economic disaster of brexit
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged
No one is blaming it entirely for them. What people are stating though is it has meant more people are using them than would be the case otherwise.
Food banks are the result of a failed benefits system, to repeat the point for the umpteenth time.
Okay but lets take a step back and ask why people are needing to use that benefits system. There we find that brexit has contributed to that need.
No big bash at Chequers now... after sending people out to say why it could still go ahead this morning.
I wonder if you asked Channel 4, the BBC and GMTV “is Johnson vindictive” what the answer would be ?
The question is about whether he would be vindictive in his memoirs.
Trying to coerce those channels into at worse being silent and at best actively supporting you isnt vindictive as opposed to good, albeit unethical, tactics.
Aparently Boris & Carrie were planning on having their wedding reception at Chequers in July, James Cleverly doesn't see a problem with this:- "Private functions like that do not impose a burden on the public purse" 🤔
Keep up... [ I know, it's impossible, no one can ] after sending him out to degrade himself with that nonsense, the position has been switched to it not taking place. Why would anyone agree to go out to the media to answer questions on Johnson's behalf? There really is no point. Conservatives need to remove him ASAP, if the don't want months of looking increasingly foolish...
"Slag off Brexit for being a stupid idea from stupid people and the answer is now that Brexit would have worked if only Remoaners had got behind it and *believed*."
This is the point...
I remember when we joined Europe in the 70's. Nearly everyone that voted then was of working age, believing in it wasn't the issue then, they were invested in it.
Brexit was achieved by the huge number of pensioners who are no longer invested in the economy, likely to be sat on a property worth hundreds of thousands and have a secure, index linked income. They are asking those of working age who overwhelmingly voted remain to 'believe'.
The fact that when they go into care there will be no one to look after them because they've kicked a million hard working, tax paying foreigners from these shores is lost on them.
Maybe remain should have had their own bus slogan:
"Vote Brexit but you can wipe your own arse when your kids dump you in a retirement home"
What's fabulous is that, after everything, they sent Cleverly out to spout this bollox to the media, then almost immediately did a u-turn and moved the event. Nothing changes, and I have no sympathy for any of these people who have chosen to debase themselves in his service this way.
They could have all refused to join his ministerial team and brought matters to a head in the next week. The Tory Party would have put forward an interim PM, the House would have endorsed it and we would have been spared his intrigues and zombie leadership during a pandemic/ecomonic crisis/European war.
Conservatives need to remove him ASAP, if the don’t want months of looking increasingly foolish…
It's accepted that he's staying now, until a new leader is selected.
Let's hope he makes even more of a disgrace of himself in the meantime.
Why would anyone agree to go out to the media to answer questions on Johnson’s behalf? There really is no point
The one question he actually answered and its already a screeching u-turn.
It’s accepted that he’s staying now, until a new leader is selected
There's more than one way to make this fast... the Conservatives could have a new leader in less than a fortnight if they think that having Johnson out of the way is more important than members having a say. But then his ministers can't even say that he'll step down as PM when a new leader is selected... but then they can't say anything...
he Conservatives could have a new leader in less than a fortnight if they think that having Johnson out of the way is more important than members having a say.
Exactly how Theresa May was selected. But this lot want to fight like rats in a sack, so we have months of rudderless government.
The levels of delusion are extreme...
The actual cost of Carries god awful taste in wallpaper has been leaked and we paid for £3500 drinks trolley
And £15k for two sofas.
Wait, sofas that didn’t include 36m of fabric to cover them.
That’s £2800 more.
Thanks. Really. £18,000. I bet they were sitting on the floor until they arrived.
Exactly how Theresa May was selected.
That should have gone to the party vote but Leadsom dropped out at the end of the first stage.
It would depend on how close the front runners are as to whether that might happen this time round.
Depends who it is as well. If they have a leading candidate without super strong Brexit credentials, they will have to put it to a members vote... or local constituency members will go nuts after what happened with May.
The obvious answer is a trustworthy caretaker PM while a full leadership contest takes place. That's not Boris Johnson. He should be out now, and his security clearance as regards privy council and other access should be reviewed, with him no longer in a position to prevent or pervert that review.
I could understand Johnson staying on if he'd been ousted because he lost an election, but he's been chucked for his constant dishonesty and dismal failure to adhere to standards in public life.
And £15k for two sofas.
A £6000 lamp!!
Apparently the wedding bash is now not going to happen at Chequers. Even the tories must realise what an insult this is to all the struggling people in the country. John Heartfield and Max Beckman revisited.
ernie, I respect your stand, but you're pissing into the wind here.
Just in case you didn't get the brief -
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum, plus everything bad that will happen in the future, and also, everything bad that happened before the referendum. If you don't agree, you are racist. Because only hard right racist gammons voted for Brexit. For entirely hard-right mega-racist reasons And if you're not screeching your agreement on here at the same fever-pitch, you are a troll. And also a racist.
No, "well it's happened now, let's see what happens and try and make the best of it'". Or "I wonder why it happened, let's try and address that so worse things don't happen". Just a nasty childish pig-headed attitude akin to a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum and screaming "racist!" at everyone without even knowing what the word means.
"a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum and screaming “racist!” at everyone without even knowing what the word means."
Racist is as racist does.
Well done, at least for spelling the word with an R, rather than a W, like you used to..
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum, plus everything bad that will happen in the future, and also, everything bad that happened before the referendum. If you don’t agree, you are racist.
Not at all - a complete mischaracterisation. I think many people who voted Brexit were probably not racist but were just quite stupid*.
Just a nasty childish pig-headed attitude akin to a toddler sat on the floor with its fingers in their ears throwing a tantrum
It's strange. That's precisely how I imagine most Brexit fanatics. Or more accurately, like that meme of the dog in a burning room.
Just shows how we are products of our own bubbles. Mine is the real one, you understand.
No, “well it’s happened now, let’s see what happens and try and make the best of it'”.
That's quite literally the Labour policy.
* Joking aside, I don't think people who voted Brexit were stupid, either. Just completely mislead by self-interested scum, and probably betrayed by the status quo and thought that throwing a hand grenade into the middle of the UK's politics and economy could maybe do them some good. Or at least, that it was worth rolling the dice.
People who look at what's happened and still think it was a good idea, on the other hand... Those are the people with their fingers in their ears.
That’s quite literally the Labour policy.
And is literally what we are all doing in real life. Getting on with things and working with the reality of our new position. The problem is that many of us come up against problems resulting from Brexit on a daily basis. If you're retired and comfortably off, I can see why you might think that it's not worth mentioning. You can't address the problems if you try to pretend they don't exist though.
Back on topic... one of the problems is that we made Boris Johnson Prime Minister because he said he could deliver a Brexit that was not only better than the arrangements we were giving up, but better then the ones that the previous PM was proposing/negotiating. Has he... or was that just misdirection, like all his other promises..?
A £6000 lamp!!
Without the shade.
£8500 complete!
Brexit is the cause of everything bad that has happened since the referendum
Interesting that the two defenders of brexit both have arguments with absolute no nuance but just a binary all good or all bad.
Brexit was a revolution and the thing with revolutions is....that they never turn out the way you wanted. Just ask Martin Luther.
The hand grenade is a good analogy. It has exploded and the country is in pieces. We will stagnate until a counter revolution of some kind establishes itself, probably when the first intake of members of parliament who didn't get a chance to vote in the referendum have their say.
The lack of freedom of movement is what is strangling our economy, the UK won't pull out of its nose dive until that issue is properly addressed.
I think blaming brexit for food banks is pretty unhinged
No one is blaming it entirely for them.
The post last night that started this was:
We’re a first world country with working people so poor that they have to rely on foodbanks, all because we’ve spent half a decade fixated on how much 52% of our population dislike foreigners.
and palpably their use was on the rise well before brexit, so that 'all because' is clearly false.
What people are stating though is it has meant more people are using them than would be the case otherwise
almost certainly true, all I and others have said is that because of the impacts of Covid, and Oil, and Ukraine, it's hard to say to what extent, if at all. Ernie pointed out the use actually went down last year. Coming out of Covid, or a genuine reduction in underlying poverty? I can hypothesize but it'll take more years of data to know.
That's not defending Brexit, or saying it hasn't had an effect, just that it's hard to know. Also, the figures quoted are on food parcels given, not people using them. Do we have the same people in poverty but now worse than before, or more people - again I'd hypothesize the latter but I don't know.
What is clear is that their increase started well before brexit, cv19, oil, or Ukraine, but notably increased in 2010, when the Gov changed. It's relatively easy to make a hypothesis from that, I think.
@martinhutch, Suella for PM. This would be amazing to watch from afar as she has been our local MP for years. We never see her because we think she keeps going to Farnham rather than Fareham as she can't believe she is the MP for such a shit show of a town. Total waste of space so will probably become PM
Anyone reminded of This?
