Any plan to pull political discussion leftwards sadly has to work out how to frame its arguments to appeal to a populace that has been drifting rightwards and also has to deal with the dominance of the right amongst the news media
Whilst the latter is true the former isnt obviously so. When policies are taken standalone then leftwing policies do fairly well. Its only when they are labelled as belonging to a leftwing party they go down badly. Almost certainly due to the right in the media.
even if we had a perfect Labour leader who had united the whole party behind them they’d still struggle.
It certainly wouldnt be easy but throwing hands up and saying "well we will just be slightly less tory than the tories" is only going to make the problem worse.
Are these posts being copy and pasted from the Starmer thread? For a laugh?
This is quite funny - I genuinely thought I was in the Starmer thread with my last post.
So how can the politics of this country start being moved leftwards again, given the state of the country and its news media as it is now?
Binners will be here to call me a disaster socialist (untrue), but I fear things will have to get very much worse before the zeitgeist moves leftwards. Maybe after a winter with even higher fuel and energy bills combined with recession and rising unemployment things will start to boil over. It's going to require people on the streets basically. The only question is how much people are willing to endure before that happens? The alternative is the pointless labour party actually doing some opposition and representing the interests of working people, but there's fat chance of that under Starmer.
Are these posts being copy and pasted from the Starmer thread? For a laugh?
Having a starmer thread and a Johnson thread is bloody stupid. We're discussing the same thing - UK politics. The mods really need to sort it out.
No, it makes sense to have them separate. In this thread lots of different people got involved in talking about our Prime Minister and the way he goes about the work that he was elected to do. You're just going to turn everyone away with the same points about Labour and their leader... going around and around in the same repeating circles. Talk about Starmer and what Labour should be doing in the other thread, please.
Nice that they are giving pensioners an above inflation rise next year. Everyone else..... tough
Nice that they are giving pensioners an above inflation rise next year.
They’ve got to try something to shore up their base voters after killing so many during the worst of the pandemic
Talk about Starmer and what Labour he should be doing in the other thread, please.
As I explained yesterday, Johnson and Starmers fortunes, actions and words are directly linked to each other. Trying to stop discussion of one or the other in either thread simply shuts down any debate other than 'isn't Johnson evil' or 'isn't Starmer good/bad'. It's infantile, I've had more intelligent political discussions with my 14 year old.
There is a place for that discussion. There is a reason why so few people contribute. You're just going to make this thread the same. A few voices going around in circles and everyone else avoiding it. It is literally the same content about Starmer and Labour that people are avoiding in the other thread taking over this one. Discuss Starmer there, I'll happily go and join in, let people use this thread for discussing Boris Johnson and what he and his government are doing, and how they go about doing it. Please. If you find people doing that infantile, pop in and tell them that every now and again, for whatever little kick that gives you.
There is a place for that discussion. There is a reason why so few people contribute
Because Starmer is an utter nonentity that no one can be arsed paying attention?
After all you, binners and dannyh used to endlessly repeat the same crap on previous threads.
I do find it fascinating how keen you are on policing behaviour and yet never utter a word about binners childish ramblings and memes?
As I explained yesterday, Johnson and Starmers fortunes, actions and words are directly linked to each other. Trying to stop discussion of one or the other in either thread simply shuts down any debate other than ‘isn’t Johnson evil’ or ‘isn’t Starmer good/bad’. It’s infantile, I’ve had more intelligent political discussions with my 14 year old.
I've had more diverse conversations with a wall. It isn't that we shouldn't mention Starmer on here, or even that all of us like him, it's just that every so often a carbon copy post appears decrying starmer/labour at a point when BJ and the actual government are screwing things up.
The parliamentary system we have disenfranchises the opposition if the ruling party has a majority.
My own view is that we should be decrying Lindsey Hoyle more than Starmer for allowing BJ to flagrantly lie in parliament without holding him to task. Not just BJ either, Shapps got a few whoppers in yesterday too
There is a reason why so few people contribute. You’re just going to make this thread the same. A few voices going around in circles and everyone else avoiding it.
This
Talk about not reading the room
It is literally the same content that people are avoiding in the other thread taking over this one.
Sorry but this is nonsense. Yes, Johnson is corruptt/lazy/incompetent/narcissistic etc, we all know that, why keep repeating it? Why not talk about why he is where he is, why he gets away with it, and what is required to get rid of him? Except that's not allowed because to do that you have to talk about the labour party too. Or should we just stick to upper case rants and funny pictures?
Or should we just stick to upper case rants and funny pictures?
I'll stop reading Private Eye then
what is required to get rid of him?
For some people, that is a referendum on Scottish independence.
For some people it is an agreement about PR between all the opposition parties.
For some people it is a change of Tory leader, and a shift back to Conservative values.
For some of us it’s getting a Labour government elected. But not all of us.
I don't think there is a fine enough line to draw between Johnson and Starmer stories in many ways, given their relative political status.
I mean what's the rule - don't mention Starmer ever? How does it work? Who gets to decide?
It's frankly ridiculous.
The truth of the matter is people have given up on the Starmer thread because their positivity about the man has faded, and that is embarrassing/frustrating for some reason when he's used in context in this thread.
The general focus of this thread is Johnson but connected events and opinions make entire sense.
I’ve had more diverse conversations with a wall. It isn’t that we shouldn’t mention Starmer on here, or even that all of us like him, it’s just that every so often a carbon copy post appears decrying starmer/labour at a point when BJ and the actual government are screwing things up.
The parliamentary system we have disenfranchises the opposition if the ruling party has a majority.
Yeah but so what - the government are always screwing up. But when Starmer apes a Tory value I think it's relevant that it's seen by the people that might not venture into the Starmer thread too.
It isn’t that we shouldn’t mention Starmer on here,
That line is not clear to me.
My own view is that we should be decrying Lindsey Hoyle more than Starmer for allowing BJ to flagrantly lie in parliament without holding him to task.
Hoyle is useless although then again he is doing the job exactly as he was selected to do so but Starmer could still challenge him.
If you look at how Blackford challenges Johnson it shows how the speaker can be worked round to some degree.
I used to enjoy reading this thread ☹️
Kelvin how many unlikely methods of deposing Johnson and/or the tories can you think of that don't involve having a leader of the labour party who people want to vote for? 😂
The only way to get rid of the tories is to vote them out at an election. They primary/only way of doing that is having a LOTO who can persuade people to vote for his party and its policies.
I used to enjoy reading this thread
What did you used to like in particular? Binners' daily rants about terrible Johnson is? Kelvin's middle of the road liberal pontificating? Dannyh/gardentigers unhinged rants about the great unwashed who voted for Johnson?
I used to enjoy reading this thread
As did others. Well not any more!!! You're not here to enjoy yourself!!!
You're here to be angrily lectured in how wrong you are by the same 5 spirit-crushingly tedious, utterly joyless, pious, humourless, sanctimonious, self-righteous po-faced faux revolutionaries informed by those who are far more knowledgable than you in why your opinions may not be quite correct
Let that be a lesson to you!!
Maybe they preferred your contributions?
You're clearly the star of the show
You’re clearly the star of the show
Nah I'm just bored and enjoy winding up binners. Seems to work as well. 😄
If you're not bloody careful I'll actually start talking about politics in the pub next Monday! 😛
I mean what’s the rule – don’t mention Starmer ever? How does it work? Who gets to decide?
I think everyone knows who the self-appointed arbitrator is.
The reason the Starmer thread has low level of activity is because Starmer himself has low levels of activity.
I occasionally type "Starmer" in the search box and click on to a news search just to find out what the hell he's been up. Generally I find little that is current and mostly news articles several days if not weeks old.
In contrast a Johnson search will obviously throw up a multitude of news stories.
Currently a Starmer news search will indeed show some very recent news reports but only because some members of his Front Bench are rebelling and ignoring his demand not to support a section of the working-class which is actively engaged in challenging the ruling elite and their Tory government.
Whilst simultaneously providing an example of the value of organising to all working people.
Nah I’m just bored and enjoy winding up binners. Seems to work as well. 😄
Tiresome and vapid
If you say his name 3 times he appears and bores you to tears,
Tiresome and vapid
Only if you think this is a serious discussion, which it clearly is not. This is a chat forum FFS not a committee meeting.
Only if you think this is a serious discussion, which it clearly is not.
Well it almost became one for a while. But I have no doubt that it will quickly revert to type and once again everyone will be enjoying themselves as they discuss how fat Johnson is, who his missus is shagging, how much he lies, how he is the worse Tory who has ever lived, and of course how incredibly stupid and unintelligent he is.
Anyway... back to the actual topic of the thread...
Keir Starmer.
Oh, sorry...
Boris Johnson
Stand back folks! Somewhat inevitably, he's addressing the issue in the best way he knows how....
He's got his team of photographers to make a film where he gets to stand by a railway in a hi-viz jacket. Somewhere in the north. A sort of railway worker cosplay
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1539257535349280773?s=20&t=LEpbqrSVu1vWEGjuQHnGzQ
As for the content, you'll be hard pushed to compress a bigger amount of bullshit, fantasy and outright lies into just a few minutes
He cosplays as a ****ing human as standard.
A sort of railway worker cosplay
Stand back folks! Somewhat inevitably, he’s addressing the issue in the best way he knows how….
Did you actually watch the clip which you posted?
I expected to see a shambolic press conference in which makes Johnson appear totally inept. From a Tory perspective his performance was absolutely fine. He made all the points you would expect from a Tory PM and was clearly appealing to general public to support the government's stance.
He made what many would feel were very valid points.
Now what it needs is an alternative point of view from a different perspective - ie from the perspective of ordinary working people, not the ruling elite.
Any ideas who should be taking on the challenge?
Crossrail for the north... my arse!
"levelling up across the whole country"
Come and say that in Yorkshire, with a straight face... HE has cancelled EVERYTHING that was planned here as regards new rail capacity, in an area where rail use has bounced back post pandemic, despite the bottle necks and slow service. Insulting.
Can we make him spend his next holiday (must be due another one any day now) in Bradford?
Crossrail for the north… my arse!
"Northern Powerhouse Rail, of which I'm very proud"
Eh? So proud of it, you cancelled it all?
Like I said : you’ll be hard pushed to compress a bigger amount of bullshit, fantasy and outright lies into just a few minutes
I honestly think he's some kind of Walter Mitty character and in his own head all these things actually happened. Northern Powerhouse Rail, Crossrail for the North, 48 New Hospitals, all those new nuclear power stations.
The bloke lives in a fantasy world. The scary thing is how many people seem to live there with him
The scary thing is how many people seem to live there with him
Perhaps they could be guided out of there by the leader of the Opposition?
Will he give his own press briefing explaining why Johnson is so wrong and living in a fantasy world, whilst offering real down-to-earth alternative policies?
Two more attempts to get Carrie public funds (I won't insult people's intelligence by saying "jobs")... as I predicted... a pattern emerging... just like when he was mayor...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-suggested-two-plum-27285766
At least her relationship with him was public at the time of these ones... so arguably less corrupt... more just your common basic nepotism.
The bloke lives in a fantasy world. The scary thing is how many people seem to live there with him
Welcome to the Brexit sir.
I think that was the warm up act,once he realised all you have to do is say a few things but actually never fulfill anything, it was game on.
Post truth politics and all that jazz.
And on the FCO job for her when she was his secret mistress... ie the story published and then withdrawn in the Times...
The claim was also mentioned in a diary kept by Alan Duncan, who was at the time a minister of state at the foreign office.
In his published diaries he noted on Sunday 22nd April 2018: “Apparently Carrie Symonds, head of press in Conservative HQ, is due to become a SPAD in the FCO. It’s the first I’ve heard of it.”
The original story published by the Times claimed that the idea fell apart when Mr Johnson's closest advisers learned of the idea to hire Ms Symonds.
[ Independent ]
Depressing article here
The Tory candidate sounds absolutely dreadful, but still in with a good chance of winning 🙄
https://unherd.com/2022/06/the-tories-deserve-to-lose-tiverton/
Anyway a bit of National service never hurt anyone, we need to get ready to show the Bear who’s boss.
Bomb back better.
I shouldn’t really joke but are they coming around to gather the iron fencing yet.
The reason the Starmer thread has low level of activity is because Starmer himself has low levels of activity.
It's not mate, it's because you and a handful of others constantly spam the thread with the same old mince. That's the reason I don't open it anymore.
