The story he tried to get shut down now most viewed item on BBC 😂😂
It’s interesting how they don’t mention he was married to someone else at the time and she was his bit on the side.
Newsnight coverage very much about the closing down of the story, rather than the content and context of it…
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1539009946100060162?s=20&t=8aYslwLi1sbn5U5XaQ_mvA
After a day of hearing Johnson’s ministers repeating the call for “pay discipline” across all tv and radio channels… I come across this…
Downing Street has asked ministers to ease restrictions on City bosses’ pay in a bid to show overseas companies the “benefits of Brexit”
It's already started of sorts.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/royal-mail-boss-handed-140000-27264328
This plonker was Managing Director of the NHS COVID-19 App, NHS Test and Trace, Department of Health and Social Care.
While posties offered 2% "no strings" from next month by executive action, or a massive slash of numerous T&Cs for another ~1.5%.
Royal Mail's chief executive officer Simon Thompson got an overall annual pay and perks package worth £753,000. The deal included a 'short-term' bonus of £142,000
That’s not inconsiderable, is it. Is that what “pay discipline” looks like at the top?
Could just have a politics thread…
Don’t be daft people might disagree with each other.
The amount of posts trying to police the thread outnumbers the supposed OT posts.
The part that grates is I absolutely know if I was coming on here to applaud Starmer against Johnson no one would say a thing.
It's the sensitivity that the leader of the opposition has failed to inflict substantial damage on Johnson that's the problem otherwise the frustrations wouldn't end in a tirade of lefty insults.
Call me old fashioned but Labour are supposed to be lefty. And in that context I'm going to join this thread whenever I see fit.
It ought to be ever so slightly obvious that to be pragmatically against Johnson you have to be to the left, and supporting values that are pushing back against the Tories in general.
If you want to come and join the other thread then and talk up Starmer or attack Johnson please do.
Which thread does the by-election go in?
(I mentioned Johnson four times in this post and Starmer twice. I hope that qualifies.)
You're never more than a few days away from another Johnson scandal popping up.
Government by crisis mismanagement
Newsnight last night was superb. The odious twerp Chris Phillips, Minster for Whatever, who is the full Alan B’stard, was reeling off the usual bullshit, while Mick Lynch did what I wish more people would do with these liars and just repeatedly called him a liar and pointed out all the multiple lies he was telling
https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1539007405266194438?s=21&t=U5qhLXg7F9I4SPc6Fm-qvQ
It ought to be ever so slightly obvious that to be pragmatically against Johnson you have to be to the left
See this is the bit you can't your head around, under normal politically situations if you want to beat the Tory you need to be left of the Tory, but that doesn't mean left, could be centrist or even right of center. That's where the country generally is, a proper left government is not going to happen because the public are not enmass left wing, Starmer knows this, Corbyn proved it, Blair realised it and actually got elected.
Back on topic, doesn't matter where your politics lie with Johnson, he has no politics, he has to ousted through populism, ie the other guy needs to be more popular, then we might have a chance of getting back to proper politics.
Good luck with 'getting back to proper politics' ?
My money's on another "personality".
but that doesn’t mean left, could be centrist or even right of cente
In the latter case the tories win with the entire system being dragged rightwards. This is clearly demonstrated in both the UK and the USA.
Starmer knows this, Corbyn proved it, Blair realised it and actually got elected.
What Blair knew was the trick of co-opting the left and traditional voters would only work for a period. After a while they would get disillusioned and leave his party which only cared about the swing voters. I am not sure he realised quite how damaging it would be with the result of making all those people vulnerable to the brexiteers and others who actually promised a change, any change.
A representative of the rail operators is on Five Live at the moment, pointing out that they haven't asked for a relaxation of the laws about agency workers and would not want to do that even if the government did change the law.
He's pointed out that it would just poison relations, simply dragging out the dispute which will inevitably need a negotiated settlement, it simply won't work and on a practical level; where on earth do the government think all these trained rail workers are going to suddenly materialise from
He's saying that he government hasn't even consulted the rail industry, aren't interested what they want anyway and they're just going ahead and doing it because they want to start a fight with the unions for political reasons, so they can water down workers rights across the board. Overall they think it will be counterproductive and the rail operators have no intention of using agency workers
And that is coming from a representative for the rail operators, that renowned hotbed of revolutionary socialism
under normal politically situations if you want to beat the Tory you need to be left of the Tory, but that doesn’t mean left, could be centrist or even right of center.
What do you mean "under normal politically situations"? This is a normal political situation - we have a Tory majority government with Tories behaving like Tories.
Sure the Tory Party is very much associated as the party of austerity and at the present austerity is a non-issue, and taxation policies, especially the windfall tax, are not those that are generally associated with Tories. But in most respects they are behaving as you would expect Tories to behave.
What is weird though, is people who claim that the Tories are currently so horrendous, and their policies are so unbelievably awful, that it requires an exceptional response from the Opposition which is based in mimicking Tory policies and not offering anything significantly different.
Or even better not offering any policies or alternative at all, which appears to be the current strategy.
If this attitude is based on the alleged appeal of the Tories to the electorate then the obvious alternative is to do a better job explaining why Tory policies are wrong and offering a clear and credible alternative.
Rather than the "if we can't beat them let's join them" attitude, and doing the damn hardest not to appear different.
Approximately two thirds of the electorate do not vote Tory so the appeal of Tory policies are often massively overstated.
So this is now the Starmer thread, yeah?
Where the same 5 people repeat the same viewpoint over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over to each other and collectively shout down anyone who dares not to agree with them?
Just checking, so I can avoid this one now too
Oh grow up binners
I think it's the little sixth form gang that need to grow up
If we want to discuss Starmer, Blair/Corbyn with you and your 4 little mates, we'll go on the Starmer thread. The one everyone avoids and just you five contribute too
This one is meant to be about Boris Johnson and the actions of the government.
I'm trying to discuss what is relevent today in the rail strikes, you lot are banging on about Tony Blair again 🙄
Time to chill...
Laid back.
The only person mentioning Starmer is you binners.
And btw this:
representative of the rail operators is on Five Live at the moment, pointing out that they haven’t asked for a relaxation of the laws about agency workers and would not want to do that even if the government did change the law.
He’s pointed out that it would just poison relations, simply dragging out the dispute which will inevitably need a negotiated settlement, it simply won’t work and on a practical level; where on earth do the government think all these trained rail workers are going to suddenly materialise from
He’s saying that he government hasn’t even consulted the rail industry, aren’t interested what they want anyway and they’re just going ahead and doing it because they want to start a fight with the unions for political reasons, so they can water down workers rights across the board. Overall they think it will be counterproductive and the rail operators have no intention of using agency workers
And that is coming from a
Should be in the thread dedicated to the rail strike.
It seems to me that you want to post your rants wherever you want and shut down anyone who disagrees.
See this is the bit you can’t your head around, under normal politically situations if you want to beat the Tory you need to be left of the Tory, but that doesn’t mean left, could be centrist or even right of center. That’s where the country generally is,
I'm not buying this line. Otherwise Starmer being the alternative would be pulling ahead wouldn't he. As it stands Johnson is still popular.
The country vote where the establishment leads them.
And you explain to me how do we enact change by just blindly following the right's policies?
The only person mentioning Starmer is you.
Rone posted the same Starmer focused stuff in both threads... and we haven't escaped since.
They apologised at first... so fair dos...
Oh, apologies I couldn’t work out whether this goes in the Tory/Johnson thread or the Starmer thread.
...let's just get back on Johnson now, please. Happy to agree with Rone about Starmer's recent moves over on the Starmer thread, but let's keep it there, so people can choose to get involved or not.
Back on topic, doesn’t matter where your politics lie with Johnson, he has no politics, he has to ousted through populism, ie the other guy needs to be more popular, then we might have a chance of getting back to proper politics.
The Tory party definitely have small state policy. Without a shadow of doubt.
They are currently expecting the market to solve all our problems.
(They will use the state when they absolutely have to.)
Nothing has changed other than the attitudes and the personality.
So this is now the Starmer thread, yeah?
No, this is the Johnson thread and Johnson is doing so bad why aren't Labour doing a better job?
Otherwise, the thread is just a catalogue of pointing out what is wrong rather than suggesting what could be done to beat Johnson
And the thing is it's self defeating because just blindly observing how bad Johnson is - is the easy bit.
Rone posted the same Starmer focused stuff in both threads… and we haven’t escaped since.
They apologised at first… so fair dos
I did because the context was for the remainers which sit in both threads.
You and some of the others at least gave a considered response.
It's like because it's a difficult issue it shouldn't be discussed!
Surely Starmer being shaped by the Tories is worthy of the odd post in the Johnson thread?
I like the context of all views.
And generally ignore something if you don't want to discuss it!
This one is meant to be about Boris Johnson and the actions of the government
I'm to happy challenge Johnson and why Starmer is moving in a similar direction in circumstances where there's a crossover - in this thread too.
Cheers.
Anything to say about todays rail strike? Anything about Boris and Grant Schapps engineering a confrontation with the unions as a pretext to water down workers rights?
Or is the thread now exclusively about Keir Starmer?
In fact, not even Keir Starmer, just the usual five people discussing why they should be discussing Keir Starmer?
Anything to say about todays rail strike? Anything about Boris and Grant Schapps engineering a confrontation with the unions as a pretext to water down workers rights?
Or is the thread now exclusively about Keir Starmer?
There is a thread dedicated to the rail strike. You seem to feel that only stuff that you approve of can be posted on this thread.
And with that in mind you attempt to bully and intimidate with personal insults like "your little mates" and "the little sixth form gang".
You are obviously wasting your time though. So maybe focus on a counterargument if you disagree rather than personal insults?
The one everyone avoids and just you five contribute too
I think a lot of people avoid certain threads because of you.
while Mick Lynch did what I wish more people would do with these liars
Hang on, so you like union barons now?
Anything to say about todays rail strike?
Yeah, I think it's beyond the pale for a Labour leader to tell his MPs not to join picket lines. What do you think about that? Scab Starmer, what a f***** disgrace.
Hang on, so you like union barons now?
As I recall, he's a big fan of Len McClusky.
Anything to say about todays rail strike
Yes it's a product of the economic model we endure. The one that unions and 6th formers push against.
The idea that when wages have been suppressed for years that they can add to the current type inflation is drivel. Economic idiots can't reconcile a shrinking economy and wages causing inflation? Wage price spiral. FFS
Chocolate brains like Simon Clarke.
https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1538798657490890753?t=1JAExxFOc0imDrKsUBKFeQ&s=19
Our current economic model is built on low wages for the majority (I know the strike is not exclusively about wages) but the working class are now arguing between each other as expected rather than saying we all need better wages and conditions- fair play the the strikers.
Neither political party is helpful here. Starmer avoiding supporting the strikers and telling his front bench not to picket, or offering inflation based pay rises.
Johnson blaming Labour.
Again how do you remodel economics and therefore outcomes for people without pushing back on both Johnson and Starmer's brand of capitalism.
The government should either get a grip on inflation (instead of contracting one lever to the BoE) or increase wages.
Either way I don't like Starmer or Johnson's approach.
Long-term everything is going to get worse, the party that offers the best solution is likely to be the winner here.
Not offering a solution to the greater cost of living situation is deluded.
Summer of traffic jams and strikes. Keep it up.
Also don't get me started on Barclay asking to loosen up pay restricts for city execs.
Literally pissing all over the working class if that's what trickle down means.
The government should either get a grip on inflation (instead of contracting one lever to the BoE) or increase wages.
Given that it's primarily supply-side inflation, rather than wage-driven at this point, what short-term levers do they, or the BoE actually have? Interest rates have already risen significantly.
The only one that springs to mind is more price controls on energy, like the French have done.
@rone -
Yes it’s a product of the economic model we endure. The one that unions and 6th formers push against.
The idea that when wages have been suppressed for years that they can add to the current type inflation is drivel. Economic idiots can’t reconcile a shrinking economy and wages causing inflation? Wage price spiral. FFS . . . .
I agree with you on all this. I'm slightly left of centre in my politics (liberal socialist) and find this lot infuriating. Boris & Co's approach is obviously to screw over the minions and 'reward' the already rich.
It's why GDP as a measure of success in an economy is a fallacy; if you have rising levels of destitution (not just poverty, but absolute poverty) then in my view your economy has failed. It doesn't matter what the bottom line says
I work in sustainability. When you look at the three components; environmental, social, and economic, we have been failing as a country for a while now and it's accelerating now even quicker under BJ and RS, mainly because they don't GAF about the plebs
Given that it’s primarily supply-side inflation, rather than wage-driven at this point, what short-term levers do they, or the BoE actually have? Interest rates have already risen significantly.
The only one that springs to mind is more price controls on energy, like the French have done.
Removal of VAT on basic goods and services, including energy. Increase the levels of grants available to people.
Adopt a similar model Italy and Spain and 120% subsidise the insulation and improvement of housing stock.*
*They won't do this because it's what Insulate Britain were trying to flag up and they were demonised by the govt after they glued themselves to the M25
120% subsidise the insulation and improvement of housing stock.*
*They won’t do this because it’s what Insulate Britain were trying to flag up and they were demonised by the govt after they glued themselves to the M25
Imo we should've spent the entire summer doing this
Because cone winter Putin is going to squeeze harder to get the concessions he wants over Ukraine and gas prices will go thru the roof
Instead we have a government focused only on distracting from whatever Johnson scandal/crisis has popped up this week
I broadly agree with @spawnofyorkshire but tax on unearned income is also key (and possibly wealth tax).
The tax on unearned income (shares etc) massively lowers the effective tax rate for the richest 5%. If the richest paid their fair share we'd have more tax revenue to pay for improving housing stock etc.
We also need to move minimum wage upwards in real terms so that eventually we don't have to subsidise employment through benefits. Although the money goes to the employee it's in effect a subsidy to companies that pay low wages.
Imo we should’ve spent the entire summer doing this
As with much of what is wrong and broken about the UK, this will take a lot more than one summer.
Rail, the NHS, the welfare state, education are all essentially broken - the entire system is creaking at the knees, operating at 99.5% pretty much all the time and it needs vast amounts of investment, restructure, overhaul etc to bring back onto an even keel. It's not had that, it's had decades of underfunding, austerity, part-privitisation, been demonised and slated in the media...
To actually insulate Britain will take a decade of absolutely solid investment from now, recruiting thousands of engineers and providers, getting developers and construction companies on board with new guidance and then rolling it out in a phased manner of dealing with oldest houses / poorest residents first. Do that alongside grants, subsidies and guidance for wealthier residents/developers who are doing home renovations anyway - stuff like not installing any new gas boilers (heat pumps only), loads more solar, triple glazing etc.
Boris and this Government haven't had any original policy ideas since 2016 when Brexit crippled everything. First it became Leavers vs Remainers, then it became 6 years of deciding what Brexit actually was and how to implement it and the endless arguments, elections etc surrounding it all.
To actually insulate Britain will take a decade of absolutely solid investment from now, recruiting thousands of engineers and providers, getting developers and construction companies on board with new guidance and then rolling it out in a phased manner of dealing with oldest houses / poorest residents first.
There are plenty of people already capable of doing this already. The problem is that the way government schemes in the past have been framed discourages people capable of doing a decent job and encourages people out to make a quick buck.
A simple scheme focussed on a Building Control sign-off would have been far cheaper, more effective, and would avoid most of the problems the previous schemes caused. Unfortunately such a scheme might be efficient and reduce the need for project management/bureaucracy fees for friends, so it doesn’t fit with the current government’s philosophy
Sounds like a great boost to the economy to me.
The tax on unearned income (shares etc) massively lowers the effective tax rate for the richest 5%. If the richest paid their fair share we’d have more tax revenue to pay for improving housing stock etc.
I'm not against taxation - but you should know the government's capacity to spend is not limited by revenue.
Please don't get me started I will be in trouble for talking MMT on this thread again. 🙂
What does everybody think about Mr Johnson getting the cameras in to his Cabinet briefings in the morning? An attempt at transparency that should be praised? Cynical move to get his message out without having to risk getting sanctioned for lying in Parliament?
I am all for transparency in Government - and lots of what this Government does is performative rather than delivering on actual worthwhile policies (or actual policies) - is this new stage a good or a bad thing?
If he is doing it, it is him seeing an angle in boosting his profile. I expect it to last as long as it is useful to for him, or does not show him in a bad light.
But yes, getting _his_ message out without having to be pulled up for lying is probably a driving reason behind it
dissonance Full Member
In the latter case the tories win with the entire system being dragged rightwards. This is clearly demonstrated in both the UK and the USA.
It does seem to be the case that the Tories are winning, and dragging the overall political balance of the UK rightwards. What can be done about that? Any plan to pull political discussion leftwards sadly has to work out how to frame its arguments to appeal to a populace that has been drifting rightwards and also has to deal with the dominance of the right amongst the news media. They may not sell as many papers these days but they do still seem to have a lot of influence on the UK's political landscape.
The centrist/incrementalist approach does seem to risk ceding too much ground to the right but a lot of the political history of the past few years seems to suggest that offering a more radical alternative doesn't work that well either. It could be pointed out that that may be the fault of a weak/inexperienced leader (Ed Miliband, who was mauled over his mildly social democratic policies) or infighting (Corbyn, who was absolutely savaged for his policies) but I feel that when we've had several Labour party leaders in a row who have failed to make much headway with the public while all suffering from voluble hostile right wing media coverage, even if we had a perfect Labour leader who had united the whole party behind them they'd still struggle.
So how can the politics of this country start being moved leftwards again, given the state of the country and its news media as it is now? I wish I knew but sadly I don't think that calmly, or passionately, espousing left wing ideas (or tricky economic theories) is going to work.
The centrist/incrementalist approach does seem to risk ceding too much ground to the right but a lot of the political history of the past few years seems to suggest that offering a more radical alternative doesn’t work that well either.
Could it be without the heat of Brexit and Jez in the frame left-wing policies might just be the answer? To even call them radical doesn't work for me - it's just basic redistribution. Radical only because we've accepted the current establishment model.
I'm not saying it's easy but if you remove both of those elements surely the electorate doesn't need to fight over them. The metaphorical landscape is getting desperate too - for solutions.
Centrist approach is pointless (for me) as it doesn't base anything on pushing back against the Tories on better policies so offers no substantial difference to the structure of society.
The electorate are figuring this out. The trouble with centrism is it's not a centre ground either - it's a wishy washy acceptance that the current status-quo (Right-wing) works but is constrained by incompetence - which is twaddle. 'So we like the Tories ideology but we want to be included but please don't mess up with corruption.'
I knew five more years of Tory leadership would lead the country to the brink - they're not equipped to fix things.
