I can see a couple of positives; Chris Grayling has gone & JRM is confined to a parliamentary role so hopefully can't actually screw up the country much - I might be overly optimistic though.
This sums up what I think of Boris.
Chris Grayling has gone
IIRC a Brexiteer and a staunch supporter of Boris and he's still too incompetent to hold onto a job! 😀
Shame Penny Mordaunt has gone. She was very good, and very good in the role.
PM Johnson just mentioned broadband …
Is this the "full fibre broadband" he keeps waffling about? Is that a cross between the internet and a breakfast cereal?
chestercopperpot Member
Those water cannons could yet prove to be a bit of genius foresight!
Although we sold them last year at a £300,000 loss.
Patel, Rabb and Truss, 3 of the authors of "Britannia Unchained" in government. Says all you need to know about the future direction of Johnson's policies.
Although we sold them last year at a £300,000 loss
To one of BJ's mates who'll no doubt be happy to sell them back to us at a saving of 50k on what we'd pay new?
I read Greenpeace stopped his presidential cavalcade fanfare on the way to meet Queenie..
And handed him a petition of 500k signatures
👍
This sums up what I think of Boris.
That video has made me admire cassetteboy's dedication to his work even more. Imagine the hours of footage of that face, voice, hair, he had to endure to get those few seconds of the arse.
Johnston is still a pure fanny. fortunately he is going to come up against exactly the same issues as May and he cannot fulfil his promises. reality is going to come a knocking very quickly
Most likely - collapse of government very quickly.
Oh! How topical..
Just received an email from “my party” with a petition to sign against lyingblohard..
Two petitions in two days 👍👍
Anyone would think he’s popular 🤯🤪🤪
Has he ****ed off the remain camp sufficiently to get some proper coordinated action out of them?
Most likely – collapse of government very quickly.
Nah, this is a campaigning cabinet. 50p says there's an election hoving in on our horizons in the next months.
he is going to come up against exactly the same issues as May
This.
Most likely – collapse of government very quickly.
A second referendum is the only way Boris can guarantee being PM for 6-9 months. I can really see that as an option. He gets a semicolon moved in May's deal or just calls a referendum on no deal thus avoiding all blame and prolonging his government. Renders his lack of majority irrelevant.
I think Brexiteers would be fine with a referendum if the PM supported leave and if it was presented as a rubber stamping Brexit instead as a way to stop it. Remainers can't really object to it, they've been asking for it for yonks.
If the vote is leave the blame doesn't lay with Boris. If the vote is Remain then reluctantly he has to temporarily park Brexit but sell it as though he's definitely going to do it soon.
I'm saying that's going to happen, but there's a case for it.
A second referendum is one way out for him and possible. He then faces the wrath of the ERG and DUP - and with a wafer thin majority? Collapse is inevitable
Has he **** off the remain camp sufficiently to get some proper coordinated action out of them?
Of course not.
1. They're still getting paid.
2. They're not going to risk losing their jobs.
3. They're Tories. They will do anything to remain in power - anything.
If the Tories are good at something, it's solidarity.
Brexit party/Tory alliance anyone?
I'd imagine the tactic is to try really hard for No Deal.
Likely to be stopped by parliament
Due to this, he'll call another election to try and get a mandate for No Deal. He's already got Cummings onboard.
That's a cabinet designed for that election
A second referendum is one way out for him and possible. He then faces the wrath of the ERG and DUP – and with a wafer thin majority? Collapse is inevitable
DUP: The DUP are opposed to the deal. They want a 100pc united Ireland. (That's the irony they were keeping the Tories in power whilst being strongly opposed to the keystone Tory Policy!)
ERG: He's got ERG inside the tent pissing out now. Brexit is as much their problem as his. As things are now with a 'real' Brexit government They might well think a second referendum is a solution not a problem.
I'm not saying it's likely, I'm merely saying it's not as impossible as we might instinctively think.
Johnston is still a pure fanny. fortunately he is going to come up against exactly the same issues as May and he cannot fulfil his promises. reality is going to come a knocking very quickly
Most likely – collapse of government very quickly.
This,
It's tempting to shriek with horror, and frankly not a bad idea.
It's a PM chosen by 90k Tory Party Members and a Cabinet chosen, not because of their skill or talent, but to fuel his ego.
He's, as usual, made big promises without caveats about things he doesn't have control of. Only really stupid people do that.
He's got a tiny window to try to renegotiate with the EU, who said they won't and are the stronger side on the negotiations. It's a no-lose game for them, they know that he can't go no-deal because 1) it's a really stupid thing to do 2) The Commons won't allow it 3) The Commons have ensured he can't circumvent them 4) members of his own party have vowed to cross the house to stop it.
He's cocky now, he's got the job he wanted, there will be a painting of him in the Houses of Parliament somewhere forever, he'll have his own little Wikipedia page forever. But he'll be bunkered in soon enough, He'll have the ERG and Non-ERG members of his Party on his case, the rest of the Commons who'll try to **** him, just because it's their job, the EU, all his mates who got him the job and others and he'll do what he's always done before, make a mess of it and run away.
DUP are opposed to the deal. They want a 100pc united Ireland
I'm not sure that's true? They're Unionists, the only united Ireland they want would be one as part of the UK, I'm not sure even they're nutty enough to think that's a good idea.
They "don't want to be treated any differently to the rest of the UK" which is code for "we want a hard boarder"
DUP: The DUP are opposed to the deal. They want a 100pc united Ireland. (That’s the irony they were keeping the Tories in power whilst being strongly opposed to the keystone Tory Policy!)
Eh? Are you saying the DUP actually want a united Ireland?
No way the DUP want a United Ireland.
Due to this, he’ll call another election to try and get a mandate for No Deal. He’s already got Cummings onboard.
This is highly significant.
Forget for a minute that Boris and his cabinet are viewed as incompetent, Cummings has been preparing for a showdown with Parliament - the tactic will be to bulldoze resistance aside. Cummings is a highly intelligent individual with an axe to grind with the civil service and with the established parliamentary protocol for want of a better term.
Johnson, Patel, Truss, Raab are a bit of a sideshow right now but this is for all intents and purposes a hard-right coup of government. Given the lack of concerted response to the misuse of personal data obtained from social media, I expect that this will be the battleground upon which any subsequent GE will be fought. The Conservatives were badly mauled in the Euro elections and will be banking on the support of Brexit Party and Conservative voters returning to the fold.
In summary, I expect a GE shortly and I expect to see every dirty trick in the book played. The opposition are in serious trouble, the leader has lost credibility and his party is hemorrhaging members.
It's not looking terribly rosy right now.
Eh? Are you saying the DUP actually want a united Ireland?
I did *write* that. 🙁
What I meant, of course, was a united UK. Hence they're opposed to the deal.
In summary, I expect a GE shortly and I expect to see every dirty trick in the book played. The opposition are in serious trouble, the leader has lost credibility and his party is hemorrhaging members.
It’s not looking terribly rosy right now.
I guess it'll be down to Steve Bannon to crunch the numbers. Will Labour lose enough votes in swing areas to Pro-EU parties to split the vote and let the Tories win, or will Farage's latest effort cause them to do the same?
I think Labour will lose my seat, which is a real shame. We're one of the strongest remain constituencies in the UK and a brilliant Remain MP, but flips from Tory to Labour. UKIP got 1% in 2017, Labour 50%, Tories 42%, Plaid and Lib Dems got 3% a piece.
he is going to come up against exactly the same issues as May and he cannot fulfil his promises. reality is going to come a knocking very quickly
The difficulty for May was she wasn't really a brexiter, she wanted a [her] deal and was willing to put it to parliament and go back to the EU time and again to secure a deal. She really really didn't want no deal.
If (big if) Boris is true to his word that's not a problem. He goes to the EU, gets nothing, maybe returns May's deal to the commons for a vote if he can be bothered then when it doesn't get approved, simply let's the time run out.
No extension, no act of Parliament required, just put his feet up and wait.
MPs *have* voted through no deal, they did that when they voted to invoke a50 with no ammendments to ensure the final arrangement was approved and confirmed by Parliament.
They've had meaningful votes on a deal [accepted they probably thought they were less meaningful than they might turn out to be]
Legislation (the important bit) already exists, with the backing of parliament, to exit the EU, there is no actual way, at present, to force BJ away from no deal. Parliament can't propose legislation as it stands, the government does that.
Parliament can't amend existing legislation without the government.
None of BJ's cabinet are going to propose changes or new legislation to prevent no deal, that's why he's got them in cabinet, it's not about winning the next election it's about picking people who will hold faith. (and they see the next election being won by virtue of exiting).
Why do we keep talking about "meaningful" votes? Are there meaningless ones? Why would we have those?
I think Brexiteers would be fine with a referendum if the PM supported leave and if it was presented as a rubber stamping Brexit instead as a way to stop it.
Nah, they're scared they'd lose.
Remainers can’t really object to it, they’ve been asking for it for yonks.
Personally I think it's a really bad idea. Sadly though it might be the only way out of this mess.
It’s a new dictatorship till a general election. The man is dogship dipped in puss stuffed into a badly cut suit.
Good first day statement from PM Johnson to the common! 👍 😀
Oh ya ... good culling of the cabinet members.
Personally I think it’s a really bad idea.
From a remainer perspective I'd agree.
1) If remain win it doesn't settle the issue because there would then be a strong case for a third referendum.
2) I think the vote would to be to leave. (I think people are itching to give the establishment another kick in the teeth.)
3) Even if you don't think the vote would be to leave it's gonna be close.
4) If leave win it does settle the issue.
From a Brexiteer perspective I'd say it was well worth a punt.
From Boris's perspective it has terrific advantages.
Why do we keep talking about “meaningful” votes? Are there meaningless ones? Why would we have those?
Very much so, things like opposition motions, early day motions, indicative votes etc, basically something which doesn't directly result in legislation.
From a Brexiteer perspective I’d say it was well worth a punt
Not least because BJ isn't going to put remain on the ballot, any choices will be leave choices.
Disagree with 1) there. That hinges on the notion that it'd be "re-running the same vote" - it won't, it'll be a different question. You're right that it won't settle it though, we'll be ankle deep in morons shouting how having a vote is / was undemocratic. Because, y'know, logic.
If leave won again though, we'd be proper****ed. If leave truly believed that it's still "the will of the people" they'd be clamouring for another referendum for exactly this reason. It'd be the final nail in the coffin for those pesky remoaners.
I doubt they would win though - certainly they wouldn't win in a fair vote, but I have zero faith in the idea that Aaron Banks wouldn't just get out his chequebook again. For all the criticism levelled at leavers, those at the top are far more organised and way better resourced than anyone batting for remain. That's why we lost last time.
certainly they wouldn’t win in a fair vote
I'll try keep this on topic with some "clever" wording but likely that's going to be hard...
What do you think BJ would have on the ballot?
I'd guess "no deal hard brexit now vs leave on (insert date) with further negotiations towards an deal agreeable to parliament between now and then"
are far more organised and way better resourced than anyone batting for remain. That’s why we lost last time.
I'd love to agree but we lost last time long before the campaign proper started, BJ and much of the UK press have been anti Europe for decades and you'd have to undo that to significantly increase the remain vote. Every leaver I know was a leaver in 1996, not just because of the campaign in 2016
Julian Lewis, the Tory chair of the defence committee, asks Johnson if he agrees defence spending needs to go up.
Johnson says he has a strong desire to increase spending, particularly on ship building.
Gold Unicorns now.
The man is dogship dipped in puss
I'm sure you meant "dipped in pus" yet because of his shagging habit maybe you got it bang on.
The fact the he has promised so openly and unequivocally to leave with or without a deal on 31st Oct suggests to me that he has a plan to make sure he can't be held to account when this doesn't happen. Not enough time for another ref to get through parliament, not enough time to negotiate a new WA, not enough support to get No Deal through the house so that just leaves a GE.
What do you think BJ would have on the ballot?
The only sensible question to be posed would be "this is the best deal we can get, is it what you want or shall we call the whole thing off?" No deal isn't an option, it's what happens if we run out of options and no-one sane actually wants it aside from the likes of Putin and Banks. Anyone saying any different simply has no real concept of what it means. Presenting it as something desirable that we could actively choose is bottled insanity.
Of course, that has no bearing on what Boris would actually do. Christ knows, frankly.
Every leaver I know was a leaver in 1996, not just because of the campaign in 2016
The gammons were always gammons, sure. But I believe, or at least, I sincerely hope, that they're a shouty minority of leavers and not representative of the 2016 leave voters as a whole. Plenty of people voted to leave because they believed that giving more money to the NHS was a good idea, for instance.
And we're away. If brexit goes to shit it won't be his fault. (Also, cake and unicorns, obviously.)
Plenty of people voted to leave because they believed that giving more money to the NHS was a good idea, for instance.
You've more faith in the majority of the other 50% than I do.
not enough support to get No Deal through the house
Unless, and I truly hope I am, I'm thoroughly mistaken the only support BJ needs for that is his own now he's pm, arguably the cabinet could do something but they're now all true believers so no risk there.
I'm open to being corrected about this and hear how banks, BJ, the erg etc are all horribly wrong about the mechanisms of the whole thing but, as I understand it no deal isn't something which needs parliamentary support. They okayed it already (largely because no sane person thought it would happen), and now, what needs support is something else.
No deal won't be BJ's fault, it's the currently inevitable conclusion of others not agreeing with what ever he comes up with. He can continue to parade unicorns until 31/10 then it's Barnier's fault for pointing out its a donkey. He can bring May's deal back and its parliament's fault for saying no, the options are endless but the outcome is the same.
The opposition are too scared of a loss to the brexit party to push for a GE by way of no confidence, so for now will content themselves with sabre rattling and BJ knows that.
Unless we have a no confidence and then a GE very very soon no incoming government will be in place in time to amend legislation to prevent brexit on the 31st October.
Unless BJ changes his mind (at least he's got form so I'll cling to that hope) we are leaving by November simply because no one can actually stop it without BJ (or HRH but I doubt that) agreeing. To paraphrase, recent history is on their side, they will crush us.
If brexit goes to shit it won’t be his fault
His "the buck stops here" speech yesterday aged well.
Every leaver I know was a leaver in 1996, not just because of the campaign in 2016
I don't think I know any leavers but every remainer I know was a leaver in 1996 for sure. My FB bubble deffo saw the EU as some kind of undemocratic Neo-Liberal rich nations club. I used to make about one FB comment a week defending some lie about the EU that could be debunked with a 30 second web search. As soon as the referendum came the exact same people are now all fanatical pro-Europeans and complain about people lying about the EU! FFS they've been doing it themselves for 10 years at least. None of them mention Tony Benn any more, either. 3 years ago his wisdom was quoted in my FB bubble endlessly.
For me that's the one good thing that's come out of the referendum: A liberal economic consensus that unhindered economics/trade where the government doesn't poke it's nose is is a good thing. 🙂
Quelle surprise.
He is still a pure fanny about to be slapped by a smelly fish called reality
Get used to it. From now until October it’ll be a Dominic Cummings
/Lyndon Crosby blamestorming exercise to shift the responsibility for no deal onto Brussels
And given the cretinous nature of their target audience it’ll no doubt work too.
We’ll crash out, it’ll be a ****ing disaster (for 99% of us) and the finger of blame will be pointed squarely at the EU
