[Closed] Boring automatic gearbox car related question

I have an Octavia (CR VRS) with the DSG gearbox. No real complaints with the gearbox their than it can be a bit slow to change down at times and when approaching junctions can leave you in a gear higher than you want so need to knock it down manually. I think this is because they are programmed for economy and change up as soon as they can then hold it a bit longer before changing down.
I've driven a Mondeo a few times with the Powershift gearbox and it feels much more responsive. I prefer the Mondeo in every aspect to the Skoda in build quality and driving experience so will be going back to Ford when I'm done with this car.

I've driven big 4x4 autos for years and they are definitely the way forward. A couple of my mates are now onto autos a Skoda Superb and a VW Touran they say they'd never go back to manual.
Go auto it's the future!

I've not driven any of those cars, but I have had autos for the last 6 years[1], and would never go back.

Buy something with a ZF[2] transmission and you can't go wrong.

[1] two Jags and a Merc.
[2] [url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission ]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission[/url]

Have the power shift box in our Kuga.

It's been a revelation. Wouldn't dream of manual car for town driving now.

Was hoping to go for something small and sporty but my 13 year old son is now 6' tall and plays a full size tuba so big estate or SUV type car needed!

Thanks for the comments.

Chap over the road has just bought a new Ford Edge which looks quite nice.

My wife has a BMW 1 series auto which I believe is based on a 'traditional' torque converter style auto. My mate has an SMax DSG style Powershift gearbox and it is much much better than the wifes auto. Having said that though that is a million times better than a manual box. The Powershift is smoother, quicker almost seamless shifts that doesn't seem to get caught out like the gearbox in the wifes car can from time to time.

My wife has a 1 series auto too and hers was pretty poor so did a reset iirc it's foot flat down on the accelerator, switch on the ignition without starting it the engine and keep your foot down for about 20 secs. You will hear a bit of clicking and neck time you drive it the gear changes are faster and smoother. It works better than my Octavia but the economy is worse.

As noted above the ZF units are excellent. I have the ZF 8HP auto in my M135 and it's silky smooth in comfort and smashes in upshifts like a dual clutcher in sport (Chris Harris had to re-record his review of the 1st car with this box as he thought it was a DCT) and sweetly matches revs on downshifts. Bottom line is this 'box still has a torque converter at the end of it but is a far cry from old slushboxes found in old Beemers and it's never been "caught out" yet in 1 year and 10K. I think it might actually be linked to GPS in iDrive for optimum gear selection..

On a 2012 Passat dsg auto here.
The comments above from the Octavia vrs owner above are spot on.
I've done about 6k in mine in three months or so and I've adapted to the idiosyncrasies.

There are little work arounds with intelligent use of the hill hold function and using the manual shift occasionally that iron most of those issues out.

At first they feel a bit laggy when you pull off hard but you can learn to anticipate that very quickly (I test drove a Octavia vrs and I think it was marginally better - maybe a different throttle or gearbox map)

I still really like driving a manual (wife's car and holiday rentals) for a change but for my work use / commute / motorway slogging I'd take the dsg or an equivalent auto every time.

I also drove the powershift box in a Mondeo and it was every bit as good as the dsg. I got the better price on the Passat so that was the one I bought.

I haven't driven auto versions of any of cars mentioned but was lucky enough to drive a Ferrari F430 last week with F1 paddle shift which was fantastic!! Definitely would consider getting a DSG gearbox with paddle shift on my next car.

I hate the auto box in my A6 3l V6 diesel - it has put me off autos for life, never again - I prefer driving my wife's 10 yr old Mazda 3 with a manual box.

I got the impression before I bought mine that the 7spd version of the dsg had not been as robust as the 6spd version.

The 6spd was iirc only in the 2l diesels the 1.6 TDI and petrols have the 7spd.

Things may have changed as I was buying at four years old and new I'd just rely on the warranty and buy what I wanted.

And paddle shift is shite for most driving (at least in my car) - the paddles are on the steering wheel so turn with the wheel so it's bloody difficult to remember which one to shift as one minute you step down on the left, the next on the right.

It's fun on twisty roads when you keep your hands firmly planted though.

I think the 7 speed DSG had a problem with oil knackering up a sensor, which was fixed with a change of gearbox oil

Flappy paddles on my VRS and yes they're a gimmick as Johndoh states as most of the time they're in the wrong place.

Have just got a 2L petrol auto S max. It is so easy to drive and manual cars (our other one) seem so much work now.

Should have done it long ago.

I made the switch to auto recently and have mixed views. It's an A6 with the much praised 8 speed ZF box, and the gearbox itself is fantastic. For pootling around its superbly smooth yet it shifts very quickly.

But I still find myself arguing with it over what gear we should be in. Most annoying is when you're slowing to a junction or roundabout where you'll either stop or want to go quickly. In a manual, you'd coast up in 2nd gear, ready to go if you need to. In the auto, it wants to be in 4th or 5th, and then when you put your foot down there's a pause whilst it changes down and the gap that you were trying to pull into rapidly shrinks.

Similar thing on twisty roads where you're constantly changing speed. In a manual you can select the gear that you want to come out of a corner in as you approach. In the auto, it only thinks to drop a gear when you start trying to accelerate out.

Keeping it in sports mode improves it somewhat, and of course you can shift manually, but I find with manual shifting you have to concentrate to know what gear you're in - in a proper manual the gear stick tells you what gear you're in.

On balance I'd probably go for an auto again.

8-speed in the V60, would never drive a manual again by choice. Not really had the problem of it choosing the wrong gear, might be a driving style influenced thing? I don't tend to coast up to roundabouts and then floor it.

Fuel economy not stunning - 55 (ish) on a long run and in the winter it holds lower gears longer and inhibits lockup to bring the oil up to temperature which is a bit annoying.

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after my last experiance in the states last year with a 2.0 ford with an autobox - id love a modern auto box.

but not that ZF 8 speed that my parents have what a horrid bog down box that is . apparently you can get it remapped so it works but meh - from factory it is about as good as legends picture.

MY issue with auto boxes in the uk is that they attract a premium on "lower" end cars as no one specs them as it doesnt let them pretend they are jenson button when they are out on country roads so its cheaper to buy a manual .

There are two types of auto these days. The traditional kind, which are sometimes shite (Volvo, at least til recently) and sometimes good (BMW afaik). However they are always going to be inefficient due to how they work.

Ford (powershift) and VAG (DSG) have a dual clutch system which is normal cogs etc but with two clutches so it shifts between two gears seamlessly. It's very good indeed. DSG is pretty mature these days having come out 10 years ago. I would not buy a manual now given the choice.

Also worth noting that Toyota hybrids (and the people they've licensed to - Ford maybe?) are automatic due to the way they work. This won't work for you though as you want to tow.

However I'd also question the idea of having diesel to tow a trailer. These days the turbo petrol options are definitely worth a look, and you'll be cleaner.

Similar thing on twisty roads where you're constantly changing speed. In a manual you can select the gear that you want to come out of a corner in as you approach. In the auto, it only thinks to drop a gear when you start trying to accelerate out.

That's what manual mode is for. On my car even without the flappy paddles you have full manual control via the main gearstick. It takes a little practice to get used to, but it's really easy.

I have a Focus with the Powershift box and its very very good - not perfect but very good. However there is an issue with the petrol engined versions which involves an oil seal failing and oil leaking into the clutch pack £800 just for the parts to fix it... The diesel cars (like mine) use a wet clutch so don't have the same problem.

Symptoms are juddering on pulling away.

On our 3rd Skoda with DSG box. Always enjoyed them, easy to get used to. Same box as VW and Audi fwiw

Auto here. Never go back if I can help it.

No stress in town driving.Awesome displays on power on the open road, often pinned to seat and it hurts your kidneys 😉

Honda Jazz CRT a complete auto not some bolt on.

Dead boring, but brilliant IMO.

Ps There nothing I cant fit in that car with the magic seats.

That's what manual mode is for. On my car even without the flappy paddles you have full manual control via the main gearstick. It takes a little practice to get used to, but it's really easy.

Will it hold that gear though or does it change up at high revs* like most other boxes?

*probably just when you don't want it to

Will it hold that gear though or does it change up at high revs* like most other boxes?

It will hold it until it can't hold it any more - either you drop below like 1krpm or hit the limiter. At least that's what mine does.

Changing at the wrong time might be due to the mode selected. AFAIK, if have flappy paddles and you are in drive, touching the downshift paddle puts it into a temporary manual override mode designed for overtaking, where you get manual control until it thinks you have completed your manoeuvre then it goes back to auto. You have to do something like press both paddles to get it into full manual mode.

On mine, I don't have flappy paddles so I put the shift lever to the left and it's in full manual regardless.

530D with a 6 speed auto here.

I can't see me buying a manual car again, the only idiosyncrasy is the slight pause at junctions whilst it decides what you're trying to do.

Long journeys with the cruise control are great it sorts everything out.

I suspect fuel consumption is much better as the 'box changes to the 'right' gear when I'd probably be lazy and leave it in gear and make use of the torque.

I've never used the manual override, although I make full use of the torque in conjunction with the kick down on occasion...

BMW 330d here with 8 speed ZF sport auto.

In sport+ mode and manual on the gear lever, the box does not change up at max revs. In all other modes the gearbox will change up right at the last second.

In sport+ and sport auto (there is sport for the gearbox and sport for the throttle response) the gearbox bangs through the changes at lightning speed when accelerating hard.

In normal modes : super smooth.

Really an near perfect box.

I have a VW T5 van with auto and love it. Economy is still really good and brilliant for town driving. I would certainly buy another. In the days of now trying to drive safely and efficiently a manual is just a hassle. Its not like I ever rant a car or van nowadays where a manual would be better. I actually also prefer to drive diesel car as I think they feel better. What does that say about me, I like diesel autos!! Is this something I should be worried about?

We have four autos. 6speed torque converter, 7 speed torque converter, 7 speed PDK and 9 speed torque converter (in order of ages). The new PDK and 9spd are amazing things. Really I cant see a reason for going back to a manual.

However for the OP - go and drive the cars on your list and decide for yourself.

DSG Passat here.

Making progress? 'S' mode is your friend. I never bother with 'manual', although I did just spec a manual box on my Targa 4S*, but that's a different type of car.

* Just 'evaluating' the configurator at work.

I find with manual shifting you have to concentrate to know what gear you're in - in a proper manual the gear stick tells you what gear you're in.

I am going straight back to a manual for my next car.

simply having your hand on a manual gear stick means you intuitively know what gear it is in.

After a bit of practice I know what gear I'm in from the engine noise. And the tach if I need it. Or I just remember - like in a manual.

the dash tells you what gear you're in, if you really need to know. but really you don't need to know - the car does it for you.

had the fat Fiat 500 cinqucento (500x? think it has different name in some places) as a rental car recently, which had a 9 speed auto box. that was alright, but feels strange when you're already in 6th on a 30-40 limit road leaving town.

I have no intention of buying manual again.

8 speed in an F11 5 series diesel.

Awesome, hate driving a manual now - it's just crap by comparison.

Car had the flappy paddles as an option, think I have used them once.

the dash tells you what gear you're in, if you really need to know. but really you don't need to know

I know what gear I'm in from the engine noise.

Since when do you need to know what gear you are in when driving a little bit racy? All you need to know is whether you need to select a higher or lower gear than what you are in and you can easily tell that by the feel of the pull of the car or the engine note. and in anycase when you're driving a bit racy you need both hands on the steering wheel and not one on the gearstick.

Anyway, when you drop into sports mode the gear number comes up on the dash if you really need to know.

I don't like taking my eyes off the road, even less so when I am being a bit racy, which is what I would be doing if I was using the flappy paddles.

*shrug* I manage fine.

The BMW 8 speed box is supposed to be the best out there.

I get mine in 4 weeks time, so I am hoping it is !

*shrug* I manage fine.

All good stuff and yes I will need to take a couple of test drives. Main though on diesel for towing was to do with diesel's generating more torque but a suitable petrol would be my preference.

My last drive in an auto was in the USA about 20 years ago and things have moved on it seems 🙂

I used an auto in America 4 years ago and despite me not liking the auto in my current car, it was a gazillion miles ahead of the one over there!

Modern auto's are really very good and seem to have improved a lot. Our 330 had a six speed auto which I quite liked, but driving a later version of the car with the ZF eight speed box made me realise how slow witted the older six speed box is. I liked the paddles too.

If my company car budget had allowed an auto, I would have ordered one and I think it wold suit my vRS (diesel) pretty well.

That really doesn't surprise me.

Oh because I'm so insecure, nervous and slow that I'm only trundling around at 40mph anyway with my face up against the windscreen? Or because I wouldn't know what proper gear shifting and racy driving was if it knocked me off my bike? 😆

No, just that every time you contribute to a thread about driving you are right.

😉

Well, if I didn't think I was right I wouldn't post 🙂

Seriously though - manual shifting is confusing at first, but it just takes a bit of practice. First few ratios on my car aren't that close so mistakes are a bit jerky but once you're practised it's alright.

I use manual for particularly windy roads like in the Alps, and when towing too sometimes.

DSG boxes are far more fuel efficient than torque converter boxes as well, I get mid 40's around town in mine while my Mrs gets just over 20 out of her traditional auto.
Be aware though that DSG boxes can need specialist servicing when it comes to oil change time - its around £300 to do mine and lots of Ford special tools are needed which means its not DIYable.

Just waiting on delivery of a Focus Sport with auto / powershift box and dual clutch.

Everyone drives auto here.

Be aware though that DSG boxes can need specialist servicing when it comes to oil change time

The VW wet clutch ones (can't speak for the dry clutch ones) aren't really complicated at all, you just need a way of figuring out how hot the oil is because it has to be between 35 and 45 C. If you can do that, then it's just a case of either a) putting in the same volume you remove, or b) overfilling it and letting the excess dribble out which is what VW do. Their 'special tool' is just a nozzle that goes in the bottom - turns out standard windscreen washer tubing from Halfords fits perfectly 🙂

I can't understand why anyone would drive a manual, but then I got my first auto in 1986 🙂

I can't understand why anyone would drive a manual

Possibly because they don't enjoy driving them for they sort of driving they do?

I have tried all sorts of gearbox types over the years, manual, CVT, torque converter autos, Dual Shaft autos, robotised manual autos etc. the best autos I have tried are modern ZF torque converter in large engined Audi's the worst was a robotised Manual auto in an Audi R8 V10, with DSG gearboxes on diesels coming somewhere in between.

I am quite happy to stick with my manual gearbox thanks

Edit: the best gearchange of all the cars I have owned was in the first Alfa Giulia 105 series Coupe that I had in the early '80's. Once it had warmed up 🙂

[i]Possibly because they don't enjoy driving them for they sort of driving they do?[/i]

I can't imagine any scenario (except on a race track) where a manual car is any better than an auto - just to clarify, comparing equivalent cars (ie same model, bhp etc).

Whether its urban driving, motorways or open cross-country routes; where would you actually prefer a manual over an auto? And vv?

Same reason steel is real, I imagine 🙂

I can't imagine any scenario (except on a race track) where a manual car is any better than an auto - just to clarify, comparing equivalent cars (ie same model, bhp etc).

I can and do imagine it. so sorry to disappoint you. We are all different, great isn't it.

I don't like autos, just as I don't like avocados or horses or Range Rover Evokes.

I can't imagine any scenario (except on a race track) where a manual car is any better than an auto - just to clarify, comparing equivalent cars (ie same model, bhp etc).

I don't know using skill to match the revs of the engine with gear changes, down shifting in to a corner is all fun in my opinion.

I can downshift into corners in my car.

I can't imagine any scenario (except on a race track) where a manual car is any better than an auto - just to clarify, comparing equivalent cars (ie same model, bhp etc).

Mountain roads - particularly long downhill roads are a pain with the limited/no engine braking - yes use manual mode to select specific gear
its still a pain.

[i]Mountain roads - particularly long downhill roads are a pain with the limited/no engine braking - yes use manual mode to select specific gear
its still a pain.[/i]

And in a manual car, you'd select a lower gear?

I can't imagine any scenario (except on a race track) where a manual car is any better than an auto - just to clarify, comparing equivalent cars (ie same model, bhp etc).

And in a manual car, you'd select a lower gear?

DSG with flappy paddles here.

Great fun, love throwing it down into a corner then having the shift up be basically instant. Really fun.

Probably wont get a manual again.

The DSG is clever enough to manage going up or down a hill. I believe they have a sensor that figures that out.

FWIW i prefer a manual as i can beat the fuel economy by a good chunk on the type of driving i do. 5-10% is achievable without too much difficulty.

(Yes, i beat the quoted consumption figures as well.)

And in a manual car, you'd select a lower gear?

Would you pop down an Alpine pass in 6th/5th?

you cook your brakes if you do not - some roads have signs warning you to do so - not in this country but certainly the Alps , driving down the Ardeche valey from west to east was the last time I had to do this - traditional auto
loaded up estate car - manual mode engaged.

I can downshift into corners in my car.

I am assuming you have an auto?

Well yes you can down shift, but you don't have to use any skill, judgement etc. Just click the lever and the car does the rest.

FWIW i prefer a manual as i can beat the fuel economy by a good chunk on the type of driving i do. 5-10% is achievable without too much difficulty.

Still works in autos. DSGs keep lower gears than you would in a manual anyway because they have the next lower gear ready to go on the other shaft so will instantly down shift when you apply throttle.

Well yes you can down shift, but you don't have to use any skill, judgement etc. Just click the lever and the car does the rest.

Meh. If you were on a track, maybe, but 9,500 of the 10,000 miles I might do in a year are not miles in which I would savour the driving experience, however I'd still have to fart about with clutches. And on windy roads there's still all the other skill and judgement required for a smooth fun drive.

I think the OP asked if auto boxes were any good not who's the fastest, bestest most brilliant driver here! 🙂

Resounding yes, then, I reckon.

Incidentally, my Mum finds the clutch in their new Golf too heavy for her hip so hopefully I can persuade them to get a nice new DSG one and take it for a spin 🙂

Resounding yes, then, [b]I reckon[/b].

Well I say no, they are rubbish and I am going straight back to a manual with my next car.

[i]I think the OP asked if auto boxes were any good not who's the fastest, bestest most brilliant driver here[/i]

I think I went with 'yes', before the big boys turned up 🙂

At the end of the day we're human and therefore we like different things for a variety of different reasons. I don't dispute that some people prefer manual boxes, and that's fine - we all look for different things out of our cars and things. However the latest DSG style boxes are more fuel efficient and faster more of the time than any human can achieve in a manual box. They might select the wrong gear from time to time, but so do people, and when they do they instantly correct unlike people, who are often slow to correct and might select the wrong gear another two or three times as they stir the gear stick in a mild panic. And in anycase in an auto car the person behind the wheel can influence the gearbox so when an auto box does select the wrong gear then it is the drivers fault.

And latest tech is marrying gearboxes to GPS's so they know the road and terrain ahead and will predict the optimal gear to be in and change at the optimal time.

The best auto box I've driven is actually a CVT box. There is no such thing as the wrong gear in those. They are really weird and take a bit of getting used to, but once you do they're great.

Had an A6 multitronic 2.0 tdi s-line (so comes with paddles). Was ok, nothing wrong with it. just boring. Friend who had the same said the same. Economy - 35-45 mostly around 38 - I have quite a heavy foot. dont do much round town driving.

Currently have 13 plate t5 auto. so 7 speed dsg in 2.0 tdi. Better once rolling. Still has the uncertainty of the small engine boxes.

If I had a choice I would go for 520d auto. (actually I would go for the 535d auto!).