[Closed] Bolton is in lockdown

I thought it sounded like you were getting ready for a footy match! 😉

I think the shopkeepers/local businesses who lose money today should all club togther and sue the EDL (and possibly the UAF if they are a real party) for loss of earnings - should bankrupt the nasty clowns!

Surely that's bolt down.

IGMC

Unfortunatley not stoner, a bunch of racist nobbers, some full time protesters and a metric sh1tload of neanderthals* after a scrap

*yes ok neanderthals weren't as bad as we make out but you know what I mean

Should be a permanent thing imo - just stick a big fence round it like in Escape from New York. 😛

a bungh of racist nobbers, some full time protesters and a metric sh1tload of neanderthals* after a scrap

as I said. Sounds more and more like a footy match 😉

do you think the EDL lot will all go for a curry afterwards?

Trying desperatley to come up with a witty come back grumm unfortunatley I'm having trouble identifying any major positives about the place...

Oh yeah walsh's pastie shop and rice and three are bloody good
🙂

stoner, oh so true

Oh dear, a friend of mine works in Bolton's disaster planning wotsit and has been dreading this for some time. Mutterings on facebook last night suggested it was starting already 🙁

im working it today, so will be a late night for me!

Donk, Mather's camera shop in Bolton is where I got my camera and is pretty good. Not sure about any of the rest of it. 🙂

Oi Grum... Bolton is the centre of the known cultural universe.

Donk... is that logo from the EDL ? if so they nicked it from Half Life 2 :p

Was intending to stay away from the [/b]newsagents[b] today but had to call in this morning to get something changed. More police than I have ever seen, 9ft steel barriers all around town hall square all they need are a few flying cameras to complete the effect

I think it will kick off big time, plenty of little businesses boarded up, others have all the window shutters down and heavies on the doors.

[/b]Bit over done,just because the new issue of SINGLETRACK is a bit on the thin side and Mark had a RANT.[b]

Yeah Lowey HL2 reference 🙂 bolton today reminded me of city 17 barricades, can't find any proper pics of them this'll have to do
[img] [/img]

>do you think the EDL lot will all go for a curry afterwards?

LOL!

might explain why there was so many police at Manchester Victoria train station (trains to Bolton I think?). Must have been 30 of them plus vans.

Its disgraceful. Cant get a curry anywhere in Bolton tonight.

Yeah Lowey HL2 reference bolton today reminded me of city 17 barricades, can't find any proper pics of them this'll have to do

The Combine are in Bolton!!!

[url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7069609.ece ]67 arrests, interestingly 55 of them were the UAF[/url]

Fubar there were about 30 VANS out the back of the townhall, police on our corner a good 5mins walk from the edge of town centre

Dont fancy yours much 😯

[img] [/img]

Rent-a-Mob A vs Rent-a-Mob B

All be happening again in Dudley in two weeks time.

Think I'll take a day out in the country.

Is she for or against racism? Oh, hang on, I've guessed, don't worry. Why can't sensible, coherant people represent my views rather than agressive ****ers?

[i]Why can't sensible, coherant people represent my views[/i]

Allegedley the people you describe are called politicians.... 😉

I just spat my shreddies over my laptop.
Class respose from ^^^^ thekingisdead.

I went to the EDL Vs UAF thing in Leeds a while back, and was left wondering if it really was a good Vs evil thing? I'm against facsism and racism in all its forms, but fighting with the police and scaring the public isn't a great way to express my views of peace and social cohesion. Was amazed at the number of people who just wanted to fight with people based on their opinions and beliefs. I don't like the EDL and I think they're a bunch of racist thugs, but, if I hated them and wanted to hurt them, entirely on the grounds of their beliefs and opinions, doesn't that make me a bit, y'know, fascist?

[i]'I don't like the EDL and I think they're a bunch of racist thugs'

Interesting, I thought they were protesting against Islamic extremism in Britain, and the last time I looked Islam was a religion not a race.

Also, hasn't history demonstrated that the left wing (thugs) are just as, if not more dangerous to humanity than the right wing ones. Not that I think anyone who complains about Islamic extremism should be tagged as a right wing fascist.

Go and have a read and contrast the EDL's website and the UAFs website. I for one do not trust the UAF one little bit, they apear to be devoid of rational thought.

Interesting to note how 'red' the girl looks in the above picture.;o)

Weester

Yeah but eh EDL aren't just about extremism - they define extremism as "being muslim" and they are racist as well as islamaphobic as they carry out violence against asians irrespective of religion based on their skin colour - thats a race not a religion prejudice.

Theya re also violently homophobic and anti-semitic and advocate violence towards anyone who isn't "pure English"

Whilst I agree the UAF aren't exactly doing the anti-racism movement much good, that doesn't make the EDL any better than the violent racist nazis that they are.

www.StoptheBNP.org.uk have a "hope not hate" campaign and are a much better example of the anti-fascist movement.

I think this is a great example of how all 'extremists' are flipping nuts. I (along with most of the UK [I hope]) think both groups are a bunch of thugs looking for a fight and it's just unfortunate that the current economic and political climate has given the trouble makers a voice that appears to be being heard.

As I see it it's a good thing to get more extreme political parties as it'll draw people from the BNP and 'water-down' their individual influence and so (hopefully) won't have any real affect on the bigger picture, but I might be wrong! 😕

I was in Bolton on Friday night. It was like a ghost town. Very odd. I was chatting to one of the feds and he seeemed to think that both groups weren't really there to make any kind of political point. They were both just up for a ruck. Which they clearly got

Unfortunately, now that all main political parties seem to have utterly abandoned the white working class, then idiots like EDL have just been handed a platform. The labour party has even had the bare-faced audacity in constituancies like Bolton, Bury and Blackburn to then urge people to vote for them so the BNP don't get in. Why on earth should they? What the * have ythe labour party done for anyone up here whilst in power. Absolutely * all!!!

Idiots like Nick Griffin getting elected is entirely down to Blair and Brown

Friend of mine is very very central to the UAF, he's totally committed to peaceful but robust resistance to right wing extremism, however, like any demo they attract the loony element.

The strategy they adopted in Bolton was to try to prevent the EDL march by getting there early and occupying the area the EDL we're supposed to meet in. This pissed off the Police and is where most of the UAF arrests took place (rather than because of any actual confrontation with the EDL).

This was a huge mistage tactically and the UAF have really suffered a blow because of the way this was then reported by the media, not sure they will recover from this which is a gift to the EDL and BNP.

Whilst I agree the UAF aren't exactly doing the anti-racism movement much good, that doesn't make the EDL any better than the violent racist nazis that they are.

Exactly.

liked this little gem from the EDL website

We exist simply to pursue and extinguish an Islamist scourge, a scourge that has been left to fester and multiply like a malignant social cancer, with little intervention from our government who are at best apathetic, and are, at worst, willingly blind to the threat of militant Islam

Unite Against Fascism is a new national campaign with the aim of alerting British society to the rising threat of the extreme right, in particular the British National Party (BNP), gaining an electoral foothold in this country.........Our campaign will alert people to that fascist threat and urge people to use their vote to stop the BNP.

List of "famous" members is full of extremists like Jarvis Cocker, franz Ferdinand and the band Madness....that would be the UAF for the hard of thinking not EDL.

[url= http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/03/22/edl-the-police-and-our-misleading-mainstream-media/ ]Worth reading for another perspective on what happened in Bolton[/url]

Hardly unbiased though is it Nick.

Theres an interesting point here. In the pub in Bolton on Friday night, it was common knowledge that the UAF were planning to occupy the entire area before the other demo started. And I didn't hear it from any 'activists'. But everyone knew the tactic. I cannot believe that the police didn't

Question? How far from the left does one have to stray before one gets tarred as a right wing extremist?

Have you ever payed for the Daily Mail?

Didn't say it wasn't unbiased, but thought it was interesting.

There seems to be an acceptance of the mainstream media reports given the links to the websites, however, I trust what I have been personally told, by someone who was there, and on that basis the link I provided appears more accurate.

Of course, I could be lying, I could be biased, I could have bee fed a load of bollocks by my friend, do your own research etc

Binners - of course the Police knew.

>Question? How far from the left does one have to stray before one gets tarred as a right wing extremist?

A: See New Labour.

😉

Question? How far from the left does one have to stray before one gets tarred as a right wing extremist?

When you start supporting discrimination based on ethnicity, race or religion, making apologies for those that do support these views is at best misguided at worst complicit.

NIck link was critical of the tactics involved and it main point was that the press reported numbers incorrectly, accepted that UAF memebrs threw bottles and the tactiis used were rubbish - it seemed fairly even in its treatment what was your exact objection?

weest are you happy with EDL statement of Islam as a cancer ?

Badger, I've just re-read your post, it reads like typical left wing propaganda and I'm not buying it.

what was your exact objection?

to what?

Nick - Thats my point. The police must have known full well what was going to happen. We all did. And we had very little interest in the demo.

So for some reason they let them go ahead with it. And you don't have to be a social affairs editor to guess what the end result would be

Badger, I've just re-read your post, it reads like typical left wing propaganda and I'm not buying it.

Eh? Surely you don't have to be a raving lefty to recognise the EDL for what it is?

Binners - it's pretty clear that they are trying to discredit UAF, that's the serious tactical mistake that the UAF have made (walked right into it)but given they way they have presented themselves they have no one else to blame, they need to be very careful in Dudley

Nick [b]- 'Yeah but eh EDL aren't just about extremism - they define extremism as "being muslim" and they are racist as well as islamaphobic as they carry out violence against asians irrespective of religion based on their skin colour - thats a race not a religion prejudice.

Theya re also violently homophobic and anti-semitic and advocate violence towards anyone who isn't "pure English"

Whilst I agree the UAF aren't exactly doing the anti-racism movement much good, that doesn't make the EDL any better than the violent racist nazis that they are.'[i]

I think thats all of it. You see, I will not be forced what to think by anyone, left or right, I will make up my own mind thank you.

Your clearly a UAF supporter, thats your choice and I can respect choice, but ironically the muslims extremists you have chosen to defend this week either a)don't acknowledge the Hollocost, or b)think it was a good thing. Is that not fascism?

How far from the left does one have to stray before one gets tarred as a right wing extremist

I think you mean how far to the right does one need to stray to be classed as a right wing extremists. No one on here is attacking the Conservative party are they? People are suggesting that the EDL are a right wing organisation .. I mean they are called the ENGLISH defence league ...was that not a big enough clue for you to deduce what they stand for? Does it require a degree in Politics or a left wing stance to work it out? Another clue was their view that Islam is a cancer ...their own words that needs to be treated to preserve the English way of life. Now if you think that is a moderate view then write to call me dave@conservative party and see if he wants to share a platform with them. See if any non racist right wing party will support them? Best of luck
Clearly they are right wing and of the political spectrum. Here have a picture does that help you see them for what they are? [just google images English defence league] yes the sign does say no more mosques
[img] [/img]

Weester, how can you deduce that I defend muslim extremists?

I'm not a UAF supporter, I don't think they are doing a good job of uniting people against fascism at all. I am against fascism in all it's forms though.

No one is forcing you to do anything, opinions and rhetoric on forums cannot force anything, if you want to support the EDL then that is up to you but have the balls to defend your position rather than trying to deflect it by accusing others of promoting leftist propoganda.

Turning their anger onto police officers they acted with, at times, extreme violence and their actions led to injuries to police officers, protesters and members of the public.

From the times article...which then lists the injuries as a Policeman with a broken finger, another who was bitten by a police dog (who clearly got confused as to whose side he was on!) and 4 others who it suggests were all there representing Unite Against Facism...sounds extreme.

No surprise though is it right wing thugs protected by state funded right wing thugs, reported by a right wing press.

but ironically the muslims extremists you have chosen to defend this week either a)don't acknowledge the Hollocost, or b)think it was a good thing. Is that not fascism?

I notice you have still not said whether you agree with EDL that Islam is a cancer ...do share your own freely held views on this subject.

Weeter

Badger, I've just re-read your post, it reads like typical left wing propaganda and I'm not buying it.

Eh? Not sure where you got that from...

I am left wing.... I'm a Liberal Democrat. I believe in liberal democracy and the rights that entails.

That includes the right to say and think what you like no matter how abhorent as long as you don't forcibly impose your views on others ..... so I'd never dream of [b]telling[/b] you what to think. I may try to persuade you of the benefits of my argument with reason and evidence just as much as I will listen to yours.

I'm not a UAF supporter, although I do support Hope not Hate as I find the BNP and EDL's arguments to be utterly unfounded and based usually on a very twisted view of history (The very definition of "British" or "English" is a farce to start with) as well as corrosive and about as far from my views as possible.

I don't agree that the BNP or EDL should be banned as I think they're views should be demonstrated to be the bollocks they are. However, I think anyone who commits violence in the name of such views (or any other views for that matter) should be arrested and put before the courts to try their case before a jury of their fellow citizens (thats a liberal principle as well by the way - radical leftism I know, but it's been a foundation principle of this country since 15th June 1215!)

So my post said I thought the EDL were extremists, I think thats fairly well supported by the evidence they provide on their website.

I said the EDL are racist on the basis they target non-white (particularly asian) people for violence. Again the evidence for this is the many arrests documents of EDL supporters violently attacking randomn people in the streets, the vast majority of whom are not white skinned but were selected (according to those attacked) because of the colour of their skin not because of any outward signs that they were muslim (how do you tell someone is muslim unless they happen to be carrying a Korran?)

I said the EDL were homophobic and anti-semitic, again I think this is a matter of record from their leadership with statements attacking (and advocating violence towards) gays and jews.

I DID NOT say that extremist islam was defensible, in fact I find that as abhorent as I do the EDL, BNP and other Fanatics/extremists.

A wise man once defined a fanatic: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.” Extremism is just the addition of violence to fanaticism.

So I can't see how my post was "typical left wing propaganda" as it was for the most part my opinion based on the evidence I have seen or read.

You're "not buying it" OK don't, thats your perogative, but you entered the debate so I assumed you were interested in a discussion not just a way to splurge your views onto a screen.

You still haven't responded to the question about if you agree with the EDL's description of islam as a "cancer." or if you support the EDL. If you do thats again your perogative, just as it's mine to argue against what I see as abhorent, bigotted and socially corrosive views.

Someone on here said this of the EDL:

Theya re also violently homophobic and anti-semitic and advocate violence towards anyone who isn't "pure English"

Which is odd as these are views held by Islamist extremists, except you would replace "pure English" with "pure Islam" I wonder if anybody has pointed this out to them, maybe they could meet for a lively chat about the world and how to solve it over a pint or two followed by a curry?

Also of interest is that many Arabs and Muslims collaborated with the Germans as they made their way through Africa in WW2 and fought the British and the Allies as they agreed with German ideology, that being anti semitism and the belief of "pure races". Now when any right wing marches happen they get called Nazis by a lot of people who have a lot more in common with their forefathers who supported the Nazis than the people being called Nazis.

Soulwood

That "someone" was me.

And as you will read from my post above I am not defending extreme islam... but rather critiquing all extremism, including the EDL AND Islam.

Why must people assume its a zero sum equation. Just because I don't support one side doesn't make me an adherent of the opposite extreme - the world doesn't work that way.

Now read what I ACTUALLY wrote rather than assume what you think I wrote!

Yes extremists of both sides have similar arguments.... extremism usually does use the same forumlaic methods because the most fundamental method of gaining support for a small group view is to delineate yourselves as superior to others and create a percieved threat to coalese your group together. So creating a "them" and an "us" usually means defining yourselves in terms of "purity" of either race, belief, or purpose by disparaging the views of a "dangerous" group of others. So its not suprising that extreme islam and extreme nationalism are similar in their biggoted views.

Oh and I am well aware that 70 years ago the great grandparents of some people who now practice islam collaborated with the Germans .... but then so did a lot of French, Italian, Turkish, North African, Swiss and yes also British people to name but a few. Does that make those of us that live today the same? No. Just as it doesn't make all modern day Germans the same as their fellow germans of 3 generations ago.
Why? Because we are not stereotypes, we have free will to make our own judgements and to decide right from wrong for ourselves as individuals.... ask any philosopher or theologian.... ironically most religions identify this as what makes us human and different and usually assign this as proof of a divine influence in our creation.

Religions are fundamentally tollerant and peaceful... but they also ahve power over peoples thoughts and thats advantagous to those wishing to be powerful and control others.... and its here we depart from religion and belief and into dogma, violence, identity politics and tribalism.

The most religious thing you can do is be tolerant of others even those you don't like.... ask a christian what "do unto others" really means or a muslim or a jew or a seikh or a zorastrian, they all have the same principle.

I just choose to take the religion out of it and be tolerant (not because I hate religion but because I can't believe) hence the liberalism.

So stop falsly representing me as some appologist for extreme islam as I am not.

Oh and by the way.... the idea of pure races was also very well accepted in English academia during the 1920s etc. not just in germany. We're no superior in that regard.... who do you think was the first country in the modern world to use concentration camps and ethnic cleansing? That would the be British - does that make you as bad as the Germans of the 1930s and 40s? Of course not!

Selectivism in historical outlook is a dangerous thing.

Them coppers in the picture must be cyclists - they've got Chris King headsets on pmsl 😀

Bolton is in lockdown

Actually, it's in Greater Manchester

Actually, it's in Greater Manchester

Actually, it's not.

Errr...

Actually it is

Map of Greater Manchester from Papillon Graphics' Virtual Encyclopedia of Greater Manchester website:

[img] [/img]

Errr...

Actually it is:

Nope, it's its own unitary authority, and geographically, it's in Lancashire

there's many types of geographical boundary zokes. And if it's a unitary authority then it is not within a county.

No surprise though is it right wing thugs protected by state funded right wing thugs, reported by a right wing press

heh heh, living up to your name 😉

"I've come here for an argument"

[img] [/img]

give us yer best then 😈

"That's not an argument!"

Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor

Thank you!

A friend and I met some ladies from Wilmslow once. They were nice.

I absolutely agree with Badger, an extremist is a dangerous thing, irrespective of what political or religeous ideology they espouse. I once read somewhere a quote, can't remember by who, which stated;
“A fascist is an individual, or small group of individuals, who seek to impose a religeous or political ideology on the majority by the use of force”.
The ethnic or racial background of a person is irrelevant to me, I refuse to accept anyone trying to force me to adopt a point of view that has hatred as its foundation.

That's a completely shit definition of fascism because it describes practically anyone that uses force to achieve a political aim as a fascist, which makes the words "fascist" so broadly applicable and makes "fascism" so devoid of distinctive ideology that they become analytically useless. In fact, it would mean that by, say, 1941 the SS would not be considered fascists in exterminating Jews (because they were not a small group of individuals and weren't acting against the majority) but the Warsaw Uprisers or Bielski Partisans [i]would[/i] be considered fascist because they were seeking to impose a political ideology (that Jews shouldn't be exterminated) on the majority using violence.

I think you need to go back to a definition of fascism that considers what the essential "building block" of society is (individual, nation, country, class, religious community), who owns the means of production (the state, entrepreneurs, mobilised labour), attitudes to religion and how stylish the uniforms are.