[Closed] Body Fat Measurement - US Naval Method?

Must be wrong 😉 I'm 6ft 4 and still 24 stone and apparently im in the acceptable range!

Just put my details in to Navy website and fig comes out lower than on my scales by 2%.

Both systems based on some sort of algorithm, but at least the scales include some form of measurement before the calculation - nither is perfect.

As with all these things, trend is more important than which number you hit, so if by measuring with whichever method, the trend is going in the direction you want, then it's right.

16% according to this. Tanita scales say 23%. Skinfold says 19%. I think I like this method !

lucien - I would argue that a tape measure gives you some form of measurement.

Try standing on your bodyfat scales with a cast iron weight and see what happens to your bodyfat %...

12,6%, happy but could do better.
I'm not sure if any method is going to be accurate, so, like flap_jack, just pick the result that makes you happy.
[img] http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=2143 [/img]

8% using this method. Scales say 5.9%.

5'11'' and 62kg.

Flaperon - do your scales have an 'athlete' mode?

Don - can you see your abs? It's about progress though isn't it... and finding my racing weight 🙂

From other tests I would have said I was 7% +/- 2% as no test is that accurate.

That Navy link has me at 7.4% so it seems to be reasonably accurate.

Though an inch either way on the waist and hip account for a shift of 2% so it is very reliant on taking the measurements in the correct place.

Don - can you see your abs? It's about progress though isn't it... and finding my racing weight

TSY - yes, in athlete mode as otherwise they reckons I'm 30% body fat...

HAHA... from your measurements I'm guessing that would be impossible.

I think I need to try some with an athlete mode.

Results:
body fat = 11.5%
US units metric units other units
sex male
height 5feet 4inches
neck 0feet 15inches
waist 0feet 30inches
hip 0feet 35inches

TSY - the book says to use it if resting heart rate below 60 and more than 5 hours of "vigorous exercise" a week.

lucien - I would argue that a tape measure gives you some form of measurement.

Try standing on your bodyfat scales with a cast iron weight and see what happens to your bodyfat %...

TSY - As long as you did this every time, and the trend was going in the direction you wanted, it would be a reliable form of measurement.

FWIW my Tanita scales on athlete mode have my body fat at 9.6% in the morning and <8% in the evenings, depending on hydration and how much I have ridden that day

My Mum thinks I look ill = racing weight

Last time I had this measured I was borderline malnourished using caliper/skinfold and borderline obese using height and weight. Must be about right then 😉

'race weight' ? WTF ?

Are there races for different weight classes now ?

Get off the scales and on the bike and aim for maximum SPEED.

flap_jack - you forget that you already posted your flabby stats above or something?

13% but I am a fatty at the moment, haven't been riding anywhere near enough and have been eating mountains of filth whilst working silly hours. It'll be back to normal in the new year 🙁

Indeedy.

I have recently done a Personal Trainer course so I know the 'measurements' at the moment. 'Measurements' in quotes because all these methods are approximations. I prefer the 'if you can see your abs and the split in your biceps then you're under 10%' approximation. Because that gives me an answer I like even better.

When I train for bike racing I won't get on the scales, I closely monitor the power meter on the turbo or on the bike. And do geeky graphs etc (which probably don't help either).

I suppose the important point is that if you think your monitoring will do some good, by placebo effect it probably will. And for that reason it may be worth doing. I'd just rather do the stuff that I think monitors the results that may be transferable to the goal (more speed = winning races).

I've also found I'm fastest running when thinnest, but fast cycling seems (in my case) to need a couple of extra fat kilos...

flap_jack, placebo effect... 😆

Try reading the book, eh? You might learn something... like about power to weight ratios...

Maybe I'm more aerodynamic with those fat kilos 🙂 Power to weight ain't everything - although if you think it is, then by placebo effect you'll do better...

If I bump this will Solo see it and tell me whether I'm allowed milk after exercise on the iDiet?

I've also found I'm fastest running when thinnest, but fast cycling seems (in my case) to need a couple of extra fat kilos...

Yet two posts up you're making out knowing your weight is a waste of time.

Make your mind up. 😕

phil.w - specifically they're fat kilos too.

iDave - Member
My Mum thinks I look ill = racing weight

ha ha.... and starts bringing cakes round 😆

specifically they're fat kilos too

🙂 I missed that.

Have you finished the book yet. What did you think?

I've not finished it yet, but I'm finding it a good read so far. Haven't really got into the key sections...

It's sort of confirming my theory that for an ideal endurance build I need to lose a bit of lean body weight, or become a cross country skier. 😀

My Mum thinks I look ill = racing weight

+1 getting grief of mother and 2 grannies here.

Result - Athlete 13%

179cm and 76kg/12st - compared to 15stone this time last year.

In other fitness news, I ran 6.1 miles last night with no hurting tendons and completely relaxed and comfortable the whole time. I still don't look ripped though so I suppose I'm a failure.

Well done Molly... what pace?

Also, can you answer my milk question?

Well the 4HB version of iDave's diet tells you to GOMAD to put weight on, i.e. a litre of milk, 4 times a day, and be super careful about what else you eat to avoid putting fat on at the same time. The implication being that you'll put on muscle so fast a bit of added fat will be easier to get rid of at a later date than to try and put on the same lean muscle slowly.

I drank shedloads of milk while I was off the bike with a knee injury for 2 years at uni, that combined with swimming sessions twice a day meant I was pretty muscly, but also had a bit of a belly, but wasnt planning it as a diet so ate lots of harribo and pasta as well.

In other fitness news, I ran 6.1 miles last night with no hurting tendons and completely relaxed and comfortable the whole time. I still don't look ripped though so I suppose I'm a failure.

Congrats, that's almost a 10k nailed.

Oh, and apart from sprinters, most runners don't really look ripped.

Jamie - did you watch the world cross country racing yesterday... even the women were ripped... well lean as hell!

TSY - Can't say I did. As always, I am always ready to be corrected.

I know what you mean about the sprinters BTW, just looking at some of the distance runners... they're not far off skeletal...

[img] [/img]

The few races I have done, just 1/2 marathons and the like, you see this guys who look like they should be admitted into hospital as they look so emaciated......then they blast past you as if you were not there*

*as most people do to me.

Your not exactly slow though Jamie.

Perhaps you just need to get 'the look'?

I'm firmly mid pack, TSY.

The thing is, I could get 'the look' if I it wasn't for one thing.

I. LOVE. FOOD.

Mostly cakes/chocolate and chips.

...I am going to restart weight training next year, so maybe that will help.

Me too.

The good lady wants to iDiet and want me to do it too. She's not allowing my hybird version that I've been doing so all the Xmas chocolates sat on the desk opposite me are staying there until Friday.

What is the Hybrid Version™?

DEXA

do you have one LabMonkey?

Ha, it's my own version Jamie... it'll cost you..

Or you could just allow Dairy and Fruit and cheat every 3 - 4 days?

phil.w +1

You better speak to my financial assistant for payment details, TSY.

Mr. D. Darcy is the chaps name.

My Mum thinks I look ill = racing weight

Good point D0NK.

It's always interesting when I make an effort to shift a bit of weight, everyone says I look gaunt/ill.

Might need to get a fake tan or something.

phil.w - Member

do you have one LabMonkey?

Yes, well, I don't own one myself as they cost ~£300K - but there is one just downstairs from my office.

Fact of the day - LabMonkey has 24% head fat.

6ft4
19.5'' neck
40'' waist
43'' hips

21%...................what a load of old boolax 😆

That's one hell of a big neck you've got there!

Remind me not to offend you.

Yeti I dunno about milk for recovery. It seems to have the required nutrients in good proportions but not in very large amounts, I think you might have to drink an awful lot immediately post exercise. Depending on what you've done of course.

Added to muesli with extra nuts? It was more regarding the insulin response particular to dairy that I was thinking.

As an aside, muesli served with black filter coffee is pretty shit.

It depends if something else in the milk promotes insulin release, or if it's purely in direct response to the carbs. Too much insulin for the available sugar would result in blood sugar too low, I think. Having said that, insulin does a lot of things one of which is act as an anabolic agent...

Hmmm... I think we need Solo's in depth analysis...

Solo I promise to read it all... no matter how lenghty the post or how little it looks like a poem.

I've also found I'm fastest running when thinnest, but fast cycling seems (in my case) to need a couple of extra fat kilos...

...interesting stuff. I've found the same this year for cycling. I'm now a good few kgs lighter than I was this summer and finding i'm struggling a bit on the bike as a result (although part of it is also being in pain due to the horrible bike) Despite being heavier than I've ever been (2-4kgs over normal weight, and 4kgs over running race weight) I kept on setting pbs and performance kept on improving.

I'm hoping next season I can find a way of being both light and fast for racing 😕

Yeti, getting a personal training session in kettlebells on weds night 😀

Good work there Ms Dirty... I reckon you may ditch the rest of your extensive weights regime after that session.

I'm just trying to get down to lean weight only... I only bought 'Racing Weight' to keep me entertained whilst shopping on Saturday, but I'm full blown obsessed now.

[i]If I bump this will Solo see it and tell me whether I'm allowed milk after exercise on the iDiet?
[/i]

I thought that after the thread where I was well flamed for dissing milk consumption, that people knew position on milk.

I learnt things about milk, initially from listening to the R4 show, "Farming today".
As the title suggests, the program can be very informative.
All this, way before iDave and his suggestions.

As has been discussed before, while milk appears to be rated as low GI.
The body seems to process it in such a fashion that promotes insulin release.
As you know.

Recovery drink ?.
I'm not a personal trainer, we know who is, and I defer to his seniority in these matters.
However, milk isn't really for me.
Yes, I do have a reaction to it, I have lost the ability to fully process Lactose.
But then again, most of us do after the age of 4yrs, to a varying degree.

As Molgrips seems to suggest, there may be better alternatives.

I thought iDave Ok'd carbs, drinking them, after exercise / sport.

I have also [i]scratched the surface[/i] of something referred to as [i]Carb reloading[/i] or something.
However, this seems to rely on the subject being below a certain BF threshold.
Apparently the re-loading can actually assist with / promote reduction in body fat ????.
I need to read more on this.

I don't drink milk.

The US Navy think I'm 9.3 percent B/F
Judging by my muscle definition, I'd disagree in favour of being a higher B/F.
I weigh in once a week, Saturdays.
Last Sat I was 78Kg, and I haven't really been trying too hard on the diet.
Just ticking over within the general rules, with the odd slip.

I am starting to see a shadow at the top of where a 6 pack may lurk.
I mailed iDave about reducing the last few tiny bits of abdominal fat, but no reply.
I may have to give him some [i]business[/i].
TBH, hes helped alot already.

**Happy Jamie ?**

I'd be even lighter if mustard didn't tempt me with bad things like crisps. 😛 I've got my weights down to just over an hour, followed by a 20min run so happy with that. I just fancy mixing it up and having a session full of pain 😀

Is the 4hr body worth a read? Any ideas on how i can be both light and fast on the bike then? I'd guess my body must need the extra fat/fuel to go faster?

Funny Solo.. I must be 15-17% BF easily and you can clearly see where my abs are. Ok so they are sticking out a bit but you can see em.

Having said that, I've seen abs on the bloated stomack of an obese man so who knows what's going on there.

Is the 4hr body worth a read?

Absolutely yes. Apart from the bits about sex. It points out how complex the issues are re training and metabolism, and demonstrates that the traditional ideas are a long way from definitive.

The bit about the skinny high-school champion middle distance runner who can lift huge weights might be interesting for you.

I thought iDave Ok'd carbs, drinking them, after exercise / sport.

He does, but doesn't mention milk... I wondered if through your research you'd found specific reasons why milk might still be banned even after training.

Dirty - I looked at the 4 hour body... looked very 'self help' style. Racing Weight may be just the same but it seemed more, errr, right when I was reading the cover.

From what I've read so far... is it definitely fat you've put on? If it is, then you don't need it.

Molly - I reckon I'm 12% BF then. If I use non-athlete scales it says 17%... which means to get to 10-12% my total weight would have to drop below 11 stone, I just don't believe it...

Going to try anyway 🙂

Any ideas on how i can be both light and fast on the bike then?

i.e. at extreme opposites fast at time trials would require a completely different body composition to fast at alpine stages.

I'd guess my body must need the extra fat/fuel to go faster?

Note I don't suggest following the 4HB mantra.. just read the book and use it as a starting point for your own research. Lots of interesting ideas in it.

Nothing wrong with getting ideas... bought some Armstrong training guide too... a lot of it's pretty basic but seems to be some good stuff in it.

Yeti, not entirely sure - need to get a new body composition done to be sure what i've lost since touring and what i should focus on for the future.

fast at what on a bike?

hows it going mr molly? 😀 i'm down to 85kg wearing gym clothes, shoes and having drunk about 5-700mls liquid before getting to the gym.

...i want to be able to ride at 24-25mph (ish)

How are you getting on with that? I assume you mean in a pack?

fast at what on a bike?

Getting down the chippy before it shuts.

DGOAB - You should read racing weight. It helps put into perspective ideal weight. As in your 'racing weight' is the weight at which you are fastest. This is not necessarily your lightest. It has lots of advice on how to measure your weight against performance to find your ideal.

How are you getting on with that? I assume you mean in a pack?

Need to learn better road craft and tactics when my new bike arrives to help with some of it too.

Phil_w...thanks, will do. That sounds interesting.

[i]Funny Solo.. I must be 15-17% BF easily and you can clearly see where my abs are. Ok so they are sticking out a bit but you can see em.[/i]

With abdominal muscle definition, at about 82Kg, I would have thought you had ticked all the [i]Post Picture[/i] criteria in order to post, err, your [i]After[/i] Piccy.

I have better definition now, in other places.
Baring in mind I was about 85Kg at 6'1".
Although it may be worth me pointing out that I have approached my weight reduction from a point of view that I do not wish to carry excess lard and risk developing excess weight related illness in later life.
After all, I'm clothed most of the time, so whats the point of going too lean and defined ?.
Esp as I've grown out of the need to [i]Win[/i].

So for me, it really is a lifestyle change, as far as food is concerned.

Lunch today was hummous, a courgette, cherry toms, wild alaskan salmon, a pepper and a scotch egg.
This low carb thing is a sinch !.
😉

[i]I got stuck at 20mph (solo) I kinda figure raising my solo speed means I can stick with a bunch riding faster [/i]

What is your heart rate when you cycle at this speed ?.

Do you sustain this HR and road speed, or is that just sprints ?.

Have to say Dirty... I'd be a pretty happy Yeti if I was covering 50 miles at 25 mph or more, in flat old Oxfordshire.

Was getting my 20mile commute towards those speeds... looks like I've got a new target 🙂

dgoab - being a few (or even more than a few) kgs 'over weight' won't make any difference cycling on the flat, it's all about your fitness vs air resistance. You'll notice it on big hills though.

p.s. that website reckons I'm 7% fat, which explains why I go up hill ok on the bike despite my lack of speed on the flat. 😕

oh and I eat lots of lushious carbs 🙂
talking of which, time for that second lunch...

Over the summer, my average hr at 20mph dropped between 10-20 beats and I never reached anywhere near my max by the end of the season (unlike the first time i tried it!) The 20mph was a sustained speed/effort and it felt a comfortable speed by the end of the season. I could put in bursts of speed/sprints but not enough to raise the overall average speed.

Once a week I did intervals/hill climbs/attacks/standing stands where my average hr was much much higher, and my legs/lungs were screaming in pain. Next year I think i need two high intensity sessions per week. I also need to improve my race nutrition which I have now got sorted.

Need to learn better road craft and tactics when my new bike arrives to help with some of it too.

Next year I think i need two high intensity sessions per week

Get down to Meadowbank track. Nothing teaches you fast pack riding and tactics like track racing and a 20 min track race is a brilliant high intensity, zero impact* workout.

*provided you don't fall off in which case it's one hell of an impact!

That website reckons 3.8% body fat with my measurements.

[i]Over the summer, my average hr at 20mph dropped between 10-20 beats and I never reached anywhere near my max by the end of the season (unlike the first time i tried it!) The 20mph was a sustained speed/effort and it felt a comfortable speed by the end of the season. I could put in bursts of speed/sprints but not enough to raise the overall average speed. [/i]

Ok, so you do not wish to reveal your percentage of MHR while crusing at 20mph.
All I would say is that if it were me.
Then I'd only do sustained / lengthy period cardio at 65-70 percent Maximal HR.
Short bursts getting into the 90-100 percent would be Ok too.
However, I would avoid sustained efforts with my HR in the 70-95 percent range of MHR.

Dirty - have you compared your target (25 mph for 50 miles) against the current WC TT average speed over just 27.8k?

Next year I think i need two high intensity sessions per week.

Anybody know if there is a recommended balance (or what it is) between short interval sets and longer rides. as in a maximum number of interval sets compared to longer rides per week.

I know what it is for running and wondered if there is something similar for cycling.