[Closed] Bob Crow dead

oh dear. Sad to hear about this. RIP

So when we had rubbish piling up in the streets, power blackouts, even bodies piling up in morgues, the general population were all too happy about it?

It was only a matter of time before someone started shouting 'THE DEAD WERE LEFT UNBURIED!'.

[i]So it's just a coincidence that he resigned days after the massive pay rise he and his fellow board members approved for themselves is called into question after being leaked? If the Coop is so un-governable why didn't he resign a month ago? [/i]

Because maybe the fact that the pay deal was leaked was the last straw, proving to him once and or all that (elements within) the Group are so resistant to change that they will even use nefarious means to prevent it, such as trying to undermine the Chief Exec?

What he's said to the Board, and therefore the Group, is "you've asked me to turn this Group around, but you won't be turned around, so I'm wasting my time and you're wasting your money, so I may as well leave". Sounds fair enough to me.

So when we had rubbish piling up in the streets, power blackouts, even bodies piling up in morgues, the general population were all too happy about it?
Jesus Titty **** Christ.
Either your memory is going, you actually have no idea, or you're in complete denial.

Pick any one, I'm going shopping.

I made a simple request for you to support your assertion that Thatcher was voted in because she promised to smash the unions. That you have not done so tells me you can't, because she didn't.

As an aside, I can only assume that you forgot about the raging inflation, mass unemployment and social unrest that were the hallmarks of the conservative government. Either that, or you just don't care.

It was only a matter of time before someone started shouting 'THE DEAD WERE LEFT UNBURIED!'.

Never forget: in any industrial dispute, it's always the fault of the unions.

Living is hard.

Everything you have can be taken away from you in one single moment.

We come into this world with nothing and we shall leave this world with nothing.

The only certainty is death.

He's gone shopping. 🙁

She was voted in because of her promise to break the unions, and you know this footflaps.

I think you're looking at the past through (anti-union) tinted glasses. That was only a small part of the manifesto and not even the main item. The big ticket item was control of inflation.

http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

The big ticket item was control of inflation.

...which went up to 18% by 1980. And 3 million unemployed.

But she wasn't voted in because she promised to fail in her kpi's was she?

Because maybe the fact that the pay deal was leaked was the last straw, proving to him once and or all that (elements within) the Group are so resistant to change that they will even use nefarious means to prevent it, such as trying to undermine the Chief Exec?

Or maybe another interpretation is that he was happy to be the head of an un-governable organisation and have a job which was un-doable as long as he was paid a ridiculous amount of money which wasn't dependent on success, and if they didn't pay him that he'd bugger off and leave them in the sh*t. And to think people accuse the unions of holding employers to ransom!

The big ticket item was control of inflation.

...which went up to 18% by 1980. And 3 million unemployed.

Or maybe another interpretation is that he was happy to be the head of an un-governable organisation and have a job which was un-doable as long as he was paid a ridiculous amount of money which wasn't dependent on success, and if they didn't pay him that he'd bugger off and leave them in the sh*t. And to think people accuse the unions of holding employers to ransom!

An alternative to speculation is to read the news release from the Co-op in which he says he's not taking the money.

Yes now he isn't, because he can't if he wants to retain any shred of integrity. Pity he didn't have the same scruples when his salary consultants sent him the report recommending that he and his board should have their remuneration packages massively increased despite the fact that they were presiding over a loss-making organisation and 5000 redundancies.

The inflation was oil price related (oil price more than doubled, from memory). It started to rise under Labour in 1978, continued to do so under the Tories until 1980-81 when it started to come down. Doubt either party could have stopped that.

So jobs how did she deliver on that one then? Should be less controversial

I will not accept the retention payments and long term incentive payments previously agreed for the delivery and protection of value in the Group and the Bank, even though this was successfully delivered.

Our five tasks are:

To restore the health of our economic and social life, by controlling inflation and striking a fair balance between the rights and duties of the trade union movement.
To restore incentives so that hard work pays, success is rewarded and genuine new jobs are created in an expanding economy.
To uphold Parliament and the rule of law.
To support family life, by helping people to become home-owners, raising the standards of their children's education, and concentrating welfare services on the effective support of the old, the sick, the disabled and those who are in real need.
To strengthen Britain's defences and work with our allies to protect our interests in an increasingly threatening world.

Tory manifesto 1979 - Union reform no 1 task together with control of inflation as already posted.

To restore the health of our economic and social life, by controlling inflation and striking a fair balance between the rights and duties of the trade union movement.

Although in the detail, Unions are #3 under "Control Inflation" & "Better Value for Money".

As an RMT member I didn't agree with all he did but I thank him for keeping my final salary pension intact, my workplace safe, my free travel facilities and for standing up to a rail infrastructure company when our small dept of 12 people was bullied into signing new contracts and losing most of our OT and shift enhancements. He got involved and within 48hrs we were all asked if we wanted to be put back on our original contracts.

RIP Brother Crow.

Yaaaaaa! Lets all have final salary scheme for 20yrs +

Erm whos paying for it? Train passengers.

[quote=hora said]Yaaaaaa! Lets all have final salary scheme for 20yrs +
Erm whos paying for it? Train passengers.

London council tax payers too. But they're all loaded 🙂

Can we put this thread in the Encyclopedia Galactica under 'Singletrackworld Forum', it will save so much time, and space...

EDIT: also, a giant of what he believed in (whatever you think that might be), last of a kind we just don't make any more. More fool us, what ever you think of the discussion, it's a discussion you should worry if we stop having it.

Union dinosaur, but RIP and condolences to his family.

Hora, why do you hate ordinary people so much?
Not being funny, but are you ashamed of your background?

RIP Bob, the last man prepared to stand up for working people.

Like my Grandad, an old NALGO chief, leaders like this are sorely missed in this generation.

Or by me anyway.

Rest comfortably, sir!

Erm whos paying for it? Train passengers.

I know someone who works on train line maintenance/safety, and the level of waste/inefficiency/incompetence/borderline fraud is absolutely staggering. And several layers of subcontractors are making absolutely vast profits out of it.

Wasn't the wonderful efficient private sector meant to make everything work so much better?

I think I'd be getting cross about that before going after decent working conditions/rights for ordinary people.

Sorry but what's wrong with a final salary scheme? It's run well and independently and it's closer to 40years contributions.

The most common remark made with regards to Bob Crow since his death was announced has been his unwavering commitment to his members, something which everybody seems to agree with. And yet what motivated him went far beyond simply the narrow interests of RMT members. He had a commitment to ordinary working people, and yes, that includes the traveling public. He didn't see any conflict at all between the interests of transport workers and the wider public.

Obviously his day job was general secretary of RMT, a job which he did well, but he was also deeply engaged in the wider struggle to achieve greater social justice. Politically I would say that not much more than a fag paper separated me and Bob Crow, he was certainly the person I admired most out of Britain's trade unionists and politicians.

For me he was a totally straight talking bloke who refreshingly, unlike so many politicians, never used weasel words or avoided saying exactly what he thought.

I heard him speak on several occasions in fairly small meetings and he was by far the funniest speaker I have ever heard from the Labour Movement, something which never quite got translated in his TV appearances.

Another characteristic of Bob Crow was his commitment to, and his understanding of the need for, working class unity. And as such he was deeply anti-sectarian, what unites us was far more important to him than what divides us. Sadly for far too many in the movement 'ideological correctness' is paramount as was wonderfully satirised in the Life of Brian. This commitment led Bob Crow to for example be perfectly happy to work with Trots, something which he clearly wasn't.

And since inevitably Bob Crow's salary has popped up it's worth remembering that the head of Transport for London, Peter Hendy, receives more than 4 times more than that. The difference, apart from the obvious numerical one of course, is that both Bob Crow's job and his salary required the approval of RMT's members, ie, it was subject to democratic approval, whilst on the other hand Londoners have little input concerning how much the head of Transport for London receives.

Plus of course unlike Bob Crow most people haven't heard of Peter Hendy.

Well said Ernie.

Haven't read all the posts, but spotted at least one that inferred that Bob Crow was responsible for taking the tube workers out on strike, the workers went on strike because a majority of those that voted, voted to strike, Bob was the public figure head for the union but ultimately it was the ordinary members who voted not Bob.

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

Well obviously the Elite, who run the country, deserve all these benefits and the multi-million pound salary to boot. They can appreciate them without being corrupted by it. You see the real problem is the masses that can't cope with such things, it seems to make them slovenly and quite uncompetitive. They need to be kept within 5 minutes of the bread line to be kept sufficiently motivated to work for a living.

Ernie +1

+ another

hopefully the RMT can move on with confidence - take his passion, belligerence and belief and bring the union into the modern era without the borderline Scargill tactics and spurious use of striking that made him unpopular with some.

RIP Bob - long live your legacy.

My friend that drives for the Underground, says those lined up to take over from Bob Crow
are more Militant than Bob himself

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that's flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn't mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

RIP BOB

If you go on strike & people get upset, then you are probably doing a sociallly worthwhile job.. If you go on strike & nobody notices you are probably getting money under false pretences in the first place.

...says those lined up to take over from Bob Crow
are more Militant than Bob himself

Yep, the Tory press after years of denouncing Bob Crow as some sort of extremist are now casting him as more of a moderate.

His body is barely cold and already headlines like this have started appearing in the Tory press :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10690920/Bob-Crow-fears-over-radical-union-members-poised-to-fill-vacuum-at-RMT.html ]Bob Crow: fears over 'radical' union members poised to fill vacuum at RMT[/url]

[b][i]Another source said: "Bob Crow was essentially a moderate in RMT terms." [/i][/b]

Of course the RMT is unlikely to change dramatically as the result of Bob Crow's death. Leaders of organisation like the RMT tend to very much reflect the political makeup of that organisation. Bob Crow would not have been successful in becoming general secretary of the RMT had he not had substantial backing from like minded people.

The next general secretary of RMT is unlikely to be quite such a colourful character as Bob Crow but I suspect they will follow a very simular strategy.

And their character assassination by the Tory press has already started......before someone has even been chosen ! 🙂

Blimey, I find myself agreeing with Ernie!

What's the first thing the telegraph does when someone has died? Think to themselves "bloody hell, how is that going to affect [u]us[/u] ?"

Despite the fact that he has a family and friends.

At times like this it seems that the worst motives in people are exposed.

Someone has died, surely the respectful thing to do is to at least wait a couple of days before wading in?

A man of conviction. Unfortunately his extreme Marxist ideology will live on. RIP Mr Crow.

At times like this it seems that the worst motives in people are exposed.

Someone has died, surely the respectful thing to do is to at least wait a couple of days before wading in?

^This.

I can't say that I saw eye to eye with Bob Crow on many issues, but the above is the most sensible thing I've read in a long time.

I too, have not followed Bob Crow closely, however seems to have had the backing of those he represents and appears to have been very capable at his work. That is good enough for me. Shame he was too young.

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that's flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn't mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

That's a particularly poor straw man, even by your standards.

What Ernie said.

He wasn't politically motivated in the modern sense, just looked out for the interests of the people he served.

Unfortunately, a huge amount of the motivation by politicians these days is to serve only themselves and not their constituents. Is it any wonder the political system in this country has been broken for such a long time? We need more Bob crows.

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that's flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn't mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

Not so profoundly grateful as we are giving away those rights our forefathers fought for in the quest to be as self serving as those in parliament.

I can't stand these threads in which people show up to say "I disagreed with everything X ever did and hated their vile music/politics/single speeds but GAWD BLESS YOU RIP ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS". Like - posting on the internet is futile to begin with but saying "rest in peace" is totally futile beyond drawing attention to yourself about how ostentatiously upset you are. If the dead person stood for something, they'd be happy to hear you talk about it whether you agreed with then or not. I find it hard tk believe that Bob Crow would have wanted people to stop talking about the state of unionism when he died considering he spent his career trying to get people engaged with it!

I was so appalled by this thread I had to read every page...