[Closed] Bob Crow dead

I like that post ^^ 😀

I can't stand these threads in which people show up to say .......

I was so appalled by this thread I had to read every page...

Only this hasn't been restricted to this thread/forum/the internet ...... has it ?

Right across the wider media there has been an astonishing reaction to Bob Crow's death. It goes much further than the usual respect for the recently deceased and "you mustn't talk ill of the dead" protocol.

There appears to be genuine respect for the Bob Crow based on recognition that he was highly effective at his job and produced some outstanding results. Indeed much of this respect and recognition has come from people who didn't necessarily agree with him on all manner of issues.

I can't remember the last time someone's death resulted in a simular reaction and would say that this has been fairly untypical.

It's certainly surprised me.

There appears to be genuine respect for the Bob Crow based on recognition that he was highly effective at his job and produced some outstanding results. Indeed much of this respect and recognition has come from people who didn't necessarily agree with him on all manner of issues.

I do so hate it when I find myself agreeing with you, Ernest. 🙂

I can't remember the last time someone's death resulted in a simular reaction

John Smith. And look how well that worked out for the lefties... 😉

I don't remember John Smith being vilified by the Tory press in the way Bob Crow was.

But I guess that if you have to go back about 20 years to find an example then it kind of backs up my point.

Maybe not but it's about the best example in vaguely recent history I can think of. It's not 29 years though - '94, wasn't it?

Mind you when I heard 'John Smith has died', my first thought was the beer, not Shadow PM....

It's not 29 years though - '94, wasn't it?

Yes. The 9 is right next to the 0 on my keyboard. It's been corrected 🙂

It reminds me of a statement Tony Wilson made when he was dying of cancer, shortly before his death:

"the thing I can't get used to is all the people who thought I was a **** are now saying really nice things about me"

I reckon with Bob Crow, a lot of people are saying nice things, while inside breathing a hearty sigh of relief, then tempered with a nagging worry about who's coming next. One things for sure, I reckon whoever gets it, it'll be as much 2 fingers to the labour party as the Tories. I imagine Bob wasn't alone in his contempt for the present labour party, such as it is

binners - Member

"the thing I can't get used to is all the people who thought I was a **** are now saying really nice things about me"

I think a lot of people's issues with Bob Crow just came from him being a formidable adversary- as someone said, a lot of the reasons for disliking him were the same as the reasons for liking him, the only difference is where you were standing. So that leaves a lot of room for respect and admiration, it's just harder to express that when the person's ruining your day.

you're forgetting that the people who are surprising you with their sentiment are the same who you would chastise for their dishonesty and penchant for miscommunication and spin; those who are told what to say.

having said that, he may have been hard-arsed and belligerent but I don't believe he was vindictive or particularly spiteful (unless Boris was involved) - he was the loveable rogue and will be exalted.

But I guess that if you have to go back about 20 years to find an example then it kind of backs up my point.

Best example I can think of was when Michael Foot died. There was similar bi-partisan respect for him, and a similar sense of regret in the 'if only there were more like him' point of view. Funny how these sort of sentiments tend to only surface when a figure on the left departs, rather than the right. When the day comes, I doubt many will be saying 'I wish there were more like Norman Tebbit in the world'.

A person is not defined by their professional stance. Surely you can appreciate that? I can argue with someone at work all day long, but I can still respect them and like them. Or not.

It's also perfectly possible to disagree with a particular action like say calling a strike, without it becoming personal. For example, I may dislike the English rugby team intensely at times, but it would still be tragic if they all died in a plane crash.

I find it frustrating when people can't separate a person from their actions. They aren't the same, because you usually do not know the chain of reasoning leading up to those actions.

That's a particularly poor straw man, even by your standards.

You'll have to explain why you thought that was a straw man.

dazh - Member

Best example I can think of was when Michael Foot died. There was similar bi-partisan respect for him

The Mail's obituary was titled "An incurable romantic (Pity he was wrong about everything)". So maybe not so much.

I may dislike the English rugby team intensely at times, but it would still be tragic if they all died in a plane crash.

It sounds like you've actually thought that through Molls. I'm suspecting you may be reclining now, whimsically visualising the screaming fireball, with a look of quiet satisfaction on your face 😯

I was surprised to see you refer to Crow coming from the "Labour Movement", Ernie. Miliband came put with the same line yesterday too. I was under the impression that Crow (and if I'm not presuming too much, similarly you, certainly in recent history) had never been a member of the Labour party.

He was certainly part of the labour (small "l) movement, and I can believe one of the funniest orators to come out of it too, but I doubt he had much good to say about the Labour party, let alone pay direct subs to it 🙂 . Again, much like you Ernie.

but I doubt he had much good to say about the Labour party

The only person who has been complementary towards Labour recently is Tony Blair, which just shows how far they have drifted from their roots....

I was under the impression that Crow (and if I'm not presuming too much, similarly you, certainly in recent history) had never been a member of the Labour party.

"The Labour Movement" does not refer to the Labour Party. It refers to the movement which represents the organised working class, ie, trade unions, co-ops, socialist societies, and the Labour Party. Something which you clearly understand Stoner as you go on to confirm it in your second paragraph !

And yes like me Bob Crow only ever held affiliated membership of the Labour Party, he never held individual membership. And yes we were both in the (defunct) CPGB at the same time. We also both ended up rejecting the CP/Morning Star line of unconditional support for the Labour Party. Your presumptions are correct 🙂

A person is not defined by their professional stance.

the faux-mourning

Except there hasn't been any of that has there ?

Unless I've missed it, all there's been is some people have suggested that Bob Crow was something of a colourful character who did his job well, and that perhaps it would be good if there was a few more like him.

I can't see that there's been any expressions of mourning, real or otherwise.