MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Well no road user group is perfect as I said.
MF - your whole attitude to motorcyclists shows your complete ignorance.
Its obvious to anyone who rides bikes and reads your posts.
BTW - on the original thread you said your friend was new to bikes.
BTW - on the original thread you said your friend was new to bikes.
No I didn't. He had his first bike at 16 and he is 42 now. He went for a period of not having bikes, but has been riding one for the last couple of years. It is his brother who is new to riding - you must have misunderstood something or I badly described something.
And why do either of the examples (that happened to me and I have just posted up) show my ignorance of riding? Do either of those examples show good riding? Are either defensible?
MF, you may as well give up. It's impossible to persuade TJ of anything. He never stops...
So one of your friends was a born again with little recent experience, one a total newbie. Not the same as 28 yrs experience. 🙄
Both classics for the "riding a bike like driving a car" which is an automatic test fail as they hesitate far too long at junctions.
MF - every thread that you post on that mentions motorcycles you show your ignorance of riding - as you did in the example of your friends at the junction.
Just enjoy your smug ignorance and try to not endanger others with it please
Not the same as 28 yrs experience.
Problem is TJ, half the time you are acting like such a bell-end that we wonder what you were doing for those million years' experience in whatever is under discussion 😉
Maybe a darkside rider - did he have a hat on ?
MF - every thread that you post on that mentions motorcycles you show your ignorance of riding - as you did in the example of your friends at the junction.
You keep telling me I am ignorant yet have yet to prove a case where I have been ignorant. Apart from the example of my friend when you accept the other rider was in the wrong anyway.
🙄
I hope you have calmed down with all those capitals.
Totally unrelated but ....
It does makes me feel a bit better after having a major rant at the wife.
She complained big style when I lost the rag with a driver on a single track road that could not drive into a passing place.
I ended up driving through a ditch to get past, made me laugh as they were like the classic rabbit in the headlights frozen .. idiots ..
ps we have made up and I have calmed down now.
*bangs head*
One example not enough?
Molgrips - I don't want to give up. I am happy to continue to argue with TJ - it's entertaining.
To TandemJeremy blah blah
This is a forum after all ..........
it's entertaining.
You're not wrong, but I've finished my lunch now. Anybody got a spare sarnie? 😉
One example not enough?
Which example is that? The one where you accept that the other rider was in the wrong anyway? [i]Both bikes in the wrong of course[/i]
FFS man. Your ignorance of the abilities of bikes led you to defend your inexperienced friends as riding safely - when its clear they were riding dangerously hesitantly. Tweo wrongs do not make a right - but you sid your friends were riding safely when infact they were riding dangerously. Your ignorance led you to this
And I I have already pointed out, there are reasons why he may have been stationery at the junction.
And there cannot be any defence of someone overtaking on a junction. Ever. Unless (which I am sure you are about to do) you can give me an example when it is safe to do so.
I did not defend the overtaker. I pointed out that your friend was riding badly and being dangerously hesitant - this is the point you seem unable to grasp in your ignorance.
Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle - I hate watching vehicles dodge in and out of lanes on mways - wether it be a busy or quiete time, how often do we see lorries fully committed to passing another lorry for 5 miles at a time? Molgrips was intending to do this manouver for perhaps half a mile?
Motorbikes are f,,,ing crazy on mways most of the time - sitting in blind spots etc.
No Jeremy - you have simply assumed that he was riding badly and being dangerously hesitant.
Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle
Not when the're 1/4 of a mile apart he's not. But that's water under the bridge now.
Motorbikes are f,,,ing crazy on mways most of the time - sitting in blind spots etc.
IME, motorbikes are rarely crazy on motorways. Certainly no more so than car drivers.
Which 'blind spot' are you talking about? Just behind the car on the driver's side, by any chance?
MF - if there was room for the other motorcyclst to get out into the flow of traffic your friend was hesitant.
This is just simple fact.
No it is not a fact. It is only your assumption. I have already pointed out one example of why it may not have been hesitant riding.
Telling me it is a fact does not make it so.
TandemJeremy - Member
MF - if there was room for the other motorcyclst to get out into the flow of traffic your friend was hesitant.
Shouldn't there be a "safely" in there somewhere? Probably after 'get' and before 'out' - otherwise you cannot be sure that MF's friend was being hesitant. Unless being hesitant and safe are the same thing?
How do you know whether the bloke who managed to pull out did so in a safe manner?
I agree that hesitancy can be a dangerous driving/riding trait but when stationary at a junction, hesitating is no more than merely annoying to people following.
I wish i was a goldfish sometimes, this thread may have retained my interest more that way.
FWIW if i was in the same situation its just as easy to stay in the lane you're in and complete the manouver, THEN move in. If the OP had been in the outside lane, its a different matter. The biker should have gone into the outside lane and passed without incident, instead he carries out an ILLEGAL move to prove a point. No need!
Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle - I hate watching vehicles dodge in and out of lanes on mways - wether it be a busy or quiete time,
Fine but that is not what the Highway code says you might as well say I hate to se a car doing 30 in a 30 zone
how often do we see lorries fully committed to passing another lorry for 5 miles at a time?
That is what you just defended in the sentence before I mean we dont wanted them dodging in and out even if the Highway code say the left lanes are for overtaking.
Molgrips was intending to do this manouver for perhaps half a mile?
you sure that quick?
Tj, to say he has no experience after 2 years riding is a bit naive, he might have clocked up 50,00miles in that time while you're poodling around for 28 years every weekend, my last bike I'd wacked 18,000 miles in under 6 months.
Middle lane drivers ah, enough said on that one I think.
Motorcyclist was a cock.
If the motorway is quiet an outside lane is free then take your time.
And AFAIK TJ hasn't done much motorbiking in the last 5 years
Two years recent riding plus about 4 years as a kid (when he WAS an idiot rider including one amusing incident when he took a short-cut through a school car park at night and didn't see the chain across the entrance) 😆
Highway code question, when is it fine to stay in the middle lane, only when passing something in the left lane.
mf pmsl........brings back good times
Anyone fancy a lift on the back of my motorcycle down the motorway - it can be quite fun weaving in and out of the traffic using vehicles like slalom poles 🙂
Anyone fancy a lift on the back of my motorcycle down the motorway - it can be quite fun weaving in and out of the traffic using vehicles like slalom poles 🙂
MF = two years as a leisure rider I guess? A couple of thousand miles a year? So actually rather inexperienced not the 28yrs experience you claimed. 🙄
he is actually the most likely type of rider to crash born agains are hugely overrepresented in the accident states purely because they overestimate their skills.
Me - around 250 000 miles on bikes over 30+ years. None for the last few years so I would be very cautious out on a bike again. It would take mne a couple of thousand miles to get back up to speed at least
If my memory serves me right Molgrips [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/looking-for-a-car#post-1312725 ]is fairly anti-motorcyclist[/url] so this thread comes as no surprise. If indeed it did happen.
Heh.. Jamie all I said was that motorcycling is risky. Show me a stat that says otherwise?
I actually feel a warm glow of respect whenever I see a motorcyclist riding safely and sensibly. Not particularly uncommon on a motorway, but rare on country roads even if they are busy and restricted.
But Jamie, do you seriously think that people make stuff up on the forum just to.. well.. I dunno..? Is that really likely?
So actually rather inexperienced not the 28yrs experience you claimed.
I haven't claimed he has 28 years experience - I have clearly stated the experience he has.
And he hasn't crashed or come close to crashing as far as I am aware (at least not since getting back into bikes) so I do not see what that has to do with this particular discussion.
I say again - he was overtaken whilst he was waiting at a junction. You are making the rest up all by yourself.
And yet again you prove this by saying [i]two years as a leisure rider I guess?[/i] In fact he uses the bike daily to commute.
MF you won't win, seriously. Let it go.
mastiles_fanylion - MemberBut my friend has been riding for 26 years
🙄 26 you claimed not 28.. My mistake
Back to the OP....
I've no idea how anyone managed to cast judgement on this as we don't have enough info. I'm assuming the 400yds mentioned is 400yds between the two lorries. The key bit of info required and missing is the closing speed. If you were only doing 1mph more than the 2nd lorry that 400yds could take (quick bit of maths) 15mins - if your closing speed was 30mph then it's 30secs.
No idea what the "rules" are on these things but I'd call it a single overtaking manoeuvre and stay out if there was about 20secs between vehicles overtakes, a bit less on a busy road, a bit more on a quiet one. Other factors to effect my judgement call would be if there was another lane free to my right, if there was someone closing fast behind, if there was someone who had been closing fast behind but was now waiting behind me and I could release and the likelihood that moving in left would get me boxed in. Without being there, exactly what is best is impossible to judge. Also one man's 400yds is another's 200 eh chaps!
I have been annoyed by middle laners in the past and (not proud to say) have been known to show it by moving swiftly from the fast to the slow once (just safely) past them. I never get annoyed if you can see what they are doing though, i.e. making a very long overtake, even if it's not exactly how I would act. No stats one way or another but I would imagine a lot of accidents on motorways are centred around one car lane changing so all of us doing more than necessary is probably not a good thing. The only middle laners that actually annoy me are those that do so on nearly empty roads with the next car in the left hand lane ages away or actaully travelling faster than the middle laner.
Police got a bloke 5 min from my house not long ago doing 181mph on a country road, I only know that as he stopped the GF for doing 35mph the week later.
As the other rider was able to complete the manoeuvre then this shows your friend was too hesitant.
Its a very common fault amongst born again riders such as your mate. Because you have no knowledge or understanding of bikes you cannot understand this which is clearly obvious to anyone who has
Your friend was dangerously hesitant causing frustration in another rider which led to the other rider being reckless.
People commonly fail their riding test for being hesitant in exactly this manner
You were not there. I was not there. I understand bikes, you do not. I'd put my house on my guess being more accurate than your guess
Sorry - I concede on that one, I mistyped as I meant driving for 26 years (in fact, nearer 30 years but don't tell his dad he used to take his car out at night). In my subsequent post I made it clear what I meant though.
I'd put my house on my guess being more accurate than your guess
I wouldn't 😉
Can't be ar5ed reading all this, but is it right that a simple headshake really boils the pi55 of car drivers?
Cool, I'll be doing that more often then, it's easier and safer than the hand gesture I normally use.
ignorance is bliss eh?
ignorance is bliss eh?
Not sure who that is directed at. Certainly don't see how it could be me but my natural curiosity makes me want to question it.
I've no idea how anyone managed to cast judgement on this as we don't have enough info. I'm assuming the 400yds mentioned is 400yds between the two lorries. The key bit of info required and missing is the closing speed. If you were only doing 1mph more than the 2nd lorry that 400yds could take (quick bit of maths) 15mins - if your closing speed was 30mph then it's 30secs.
Lorries probably doing their 56mph limit, OP probably doing 70.... So let's say 15mph difference is a reasonable figure. So is 30mph=30secs then 15mph = 1 minute. So 1/4 of a mile, 1 minute = Enough time to pull in, as I said before.
When I did my IAM test, the general rule of thumb was if you can pull in for 10 seconds or more, then do it........
🙂
Why tho, pp?
Why tho, pp?
'Cos dems da roolz!
But it's not worth it if the gap is too small, and that's a reasonable way to judge the gap. You get used to it when you do it enough..... 🙂
Well as I approached about 200 yards, a motorcylist appeared in my lane
..which reminds me, I need to get my Cloaking Device checked over as well. Don't want to be mysteriously just appearing out of nowhere there do I?
Motorcyclist is clearly on his way to heaven for his lane-discipline, as are some on here
😆
Convert and PP make the valid point: It depends on closing speed.
I usually agree that it is [u]not[/u] hogging if the gap is sufficiently small that there is no point pulling in. I personally think if I'm going to be the left lane for less than 20 seconds then it just isn't worth it (unless it is busy and someone behind me [i]needs[/i] past obviously).
But if you were going at roughly 20mph faster than the lorries then that 400yard gap was 40.91 seconds. Even allowing for you being a good boy and leaving a nice 2-second gap before pulling in/out, and another 2 seconds thinking/mirror time, then you still had a 34 second gap - that's loadsa room!
Well it was marginal, given the closing speed. I considered pulling in, but didn't see the need. Being given a dirty look by other drivers is not that big of a deal, but it was the sad slow head shaking that made me really annoyed. He was accusing me of being stupid, not concentrating or not thinking ahead, when in fact I was. Fine if you don't agree, but I most definitely AM thinking and concentrating thanks very much 👿
Actually.. TJ - were you on the M4 this morning?
Can we discuss mopeds. ****n things have sprung up like, i dunno, herpes or something. Some ride in the bike lane, then decide they are once again a vehicle, some just ignore all other road users. Last week i had one try and overtake me as i pulled away from a zebra crossing on a corner, she ended up in the flowerbed, not through a malicious move on my part but there wasn't anywhere for her to go once i started moving again. To be fair to myself i don;t normally expect to be overtaken from stationary on a corner. Hate the things, evil little noisy dangerous little buggers.
NZCol - Mopeds in Wellington - are they insane ?? Just wait for the next proper windy day and go for a wander down Oriental Bay.
I have just started motorbiking and have noted driver resentment, I don't know why as I stay around the speed limit and never over/undertake that just looks like asking for trouble.
Dude in a Mondeo went to undertake me in a bus lane the other day, the gap didn't look big enough to me so I tooted him (braking at the same time as he squeezed in front of me in a huge line of traffic approaching a roundabout - why ??) He pulls back into the bus lane, winds his window down to ask my what my problem was.
I don't have a hand gesture that conveys how much I don't want side-swiped by a **** in a Mondeo, so stuck with the traditional.
(A friend of mine has a theory that some people just don't think women should ride motorbikes. They can tell I am female the hair and small stature gives me away. This is backed up by the random abuse given to my pal once as she parked her 650 Aprillia in Leith once, about how the bike was far too big for her etc etc)
Shite driving middle lane hogger
Is the right answer.
He was accusing me of being stupid, not concentrating or not thinking ahead,
No he wasn't. That's all in YOUR head. 🙂 He was just annoyed/bored of it/exaperated.
I have just started motorbiking and have noted driver resentment, I don't know why as I stay around the speed limit and never over/undertake that just looks like asking for trouble.
Actually I think when you start riding a motorbike you realise how bad the driving is around you, its not personal its just that it now has a greater effect on your mortality, rather than just a dent in the bodywork of a car.
Riding a motorbike does improve your roadcraft, especialy your awareness of what other traffic is doing, and road conditions. In a car you are insulated from this.
I do not drive like a ****. I did nothing ****ty
Well that would be for others people to juge.
But my friend has been riding for 26 years
Doesn't mean he a good rider.
Perhaps you refer to the time I posted about the rider who overtook me going up a hill with a blind summit and sharp left bend whilst doing a wheelie on hatchmarkings then having to drop it and swerve in right in front of me as a car headed around the bend (that one made my wife scream out loud it was so close).
Well he apparently had time to pass and you wife need to calm. You fail to understand the concept of weight to power me think.
I'll give you an example. Me + old penumatic drill = 245 kg max. 45 Bhp.
Now that is a very very low power for a bike. But still. Check how much power your average 1250 kg car needs to match that? About five time so 225 bhp. So around probably twice what you have. For what is by stw standard an underpowered bike. Now if I had the usual 85-90 bhp most bikes have you'll need almost 600 BHP to match that.
Motorbikes are f,,,ing crazy on mways most of the time - sitting in blind spots etc.
Not sure how well drivers are taugh in the UK but down here you have to "check your blind stop" each time you do a manoeuvre... Turning right it would be central mirror and turn the head to check the blind spot. Turn left would be central mirror, left hand mirror and then turn head. If you do that before indicating there is very little chance of getting surprised.
Well that would be for others people to juge.
What, people who weren't there? They're the ideal people to judge!
Well he apparently had time to pass and you wife need to calm
Juan you are raving mad. Someone posts an example of lunatic motorcycling that almost caused an accident, and you leap to the defence of the rider despite not having seen it or knowing any of the people involved. You absolute nutcase!
Not sure how well drivers are taugh in the UK but...
Mmm, but what people are taught and what people actually do are two very different things...
Well he apparently had time to pass and you wife need to calm. You fail to understand the concept of weight to power me think.
Read my post - he was wheelie-ing (illegal on a public road IIRC) on hatchmarkings (so he shouldn't have been there) going up a hill with a blind summit and had to drop it and swerve in to avoid the car he was quickly heading towards. Trying to justify such riding exactly why there is resentment from some drivers towards some riders.
No he wasn't. That's all in YOUR head
Yes it is, but what was he expecting me to think? He knew I could see him and did it only after he passed me, intentionally sending me a message.
Given the chance to talk about it I'm sure we'd have got along amicably after exchanging points of view, but the fact I never had the chance to make my case is what's annoying about it. That's where you lot come in - I can have the argument by substitution and hence feel better 🙂
mastiles_fanylion - MemberRead my post - he was wheelie-ing (illegal on a public road IIRC)
Wrong. Its not illegal
on hatchmarkings (so he shouldn't have been there) .
wrong - in some circumstances you can go on cross hatchings - it also depends whether the lines that surround the cross hatchings are solid or not
So a cop seeing someone wheelie-ing along the road wouldn't book them for dangerous driving? Come on TJ, wheelie-ing may not be specifically illegal, but its likely to be lumped in with dangerous driving. What possible justification could the rider have had for acting like that?
Only you would defend the indefensible!
Bigyinn - not defending the rider - just pointing out the ignorance and stupidity of the poster.
A cop would have to show and prove in court that the wheelie was dangerous or reckless driving. A wheelie is not illegal as the poster claimed.
The lines were solid - as it was going up a hill (almost always no crossing centre lines allowed on steep hills) and it was near the top where (as I have said before) there is a hidden summit and a shark left bend.
If you are interested in going to see the place for yourself, it is by the Hopper Lane Hotel near Fewston Reservoir on the Skipton Road out of Harrogate.
And still not convinced wheelie-ing is legal, but happy to be proved wrong.
And I did say IIRC - I wasn't sure and remain unsure.
And you keep coming back to my ignorance when it is you that started off by defending inexcusable riding and have continued to do so throughout this thread.
Its neither legal or illegal. It could be dangerous or reckless driving but the cop would have to show that it was in court. Not the same thing as being illegal.
Even cross hatchings with solid lines can be entered under certain circumstances
Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it isn't ****ing stupid.
Drivers are shocking over here for checking blind spots, and don't start me on lack of indication. On a motorbike you assume everybody is actively trying to kill you, which is not quite right. Most of them are doing it passively through lack of observations and indications.
(not getting drawn into this - my testosterone levels are too low)
Even cross hatchings with solid lines can be entered under certain circumstances
And overtaking (whilst wheelie-ing) a car making good progress going up a hill with an unsighted brow and sharp left turn with solid white lines could ever be a circumstance where it could be justified - come off it Jeremy - either accept that you cannot be right every time and stop responding with your puerile 'ignorant and stupid' responses which are, quite frankly, getting rather tiresome.
MF - at no point have I defended bad riding ( find a post where I have)- merely pointed out that your ignorance of the capabilities of a motorcycle leads you to erroneous conclusions.
MF - your pronouncing on things you have no idea about is tiresome. As is your consistently accusing me of saying what I have not.
You really are tiresome and ignorant
On the cross hatchings I merely point out you are wrong - there are circumstance where it is allowed to enter that area. I didn't say the biker was right in that one - merely that you are ignorant of that law.
The capabilities of a motorbike are usually much higher than the capabilities of the rider - and it is that that I refer to.
It really is like being in a school playground trying to have an argument with you isn't it?
If I tell you that you smell, will you tell me you will get your dad onto me?
MF - its you that consistently assert about things you do not understand and invent things I have said.
I have not defended the bad riding at any point. I merely point out hat you are ignorant of both the law and of the capabilities of a bike so you come to erroneous conclusions.
I can't help it if you are too stupid to understand this simple point
there are circumstance where it is allowed to enter that area. I didn't say the biker was right in that one - merely that you are ignorant of that law
And how is that comment helping the debate?
TandemJeremy - MemberIts neither legal or illegal. It could be dangerous or reckless driving but the cop would have to show that it was in court. Not the same thing as being illegal.
Even cross hatchings with solid lines can be entered under certain circumstances
Stop being so anal! Its patently obvious to all who read MF's posting that the motorcyclist showed very poor judgement and was riding in a dangerous fashion, regardless of whether a wheelie is illegal or not. Perhaps if MF hadnt done anything and hit the rider rather than avoid them that would have been better?
Try being less defensive, he's not attacking you is he?! I really dont understand your desire to defend someone who clearly has no sense of self preservation.
Bigyinn - because he is determined to get one over me at whatever cost and continues to attack any post I make and attempt to prove me wrong.
So far I have concluded that because I have an opinion on what is dangerous riding based on incidents that have happened to me (or in the original example to a close and lifelong friend), I am ignorant and stupid because TJ has formed his own opinions on what 'actually' happened.
Ahh well.
Bigyinn - where am I defending the rider? Seriously have a look at my posts and see if I did. MF claims I did but at no point did I
MF slaggs off motorcyclists from a position of ignorance. Because he is ignorant about the capabilities of motorcycles he comes to erroneous conclusions. However he won't ever accept that if you understand the capabilities of a motorcycle there might be alternative conclusions to be made.
Lorries probably doing their 56mph limit, OP probably doing 70.... So let's say 15mph difference is a reasonable figure. So is 30mph=30secs then 15mph = 1 minute. So 1/4 of a mile, 1 minute = Enough time to pull in, as I said before.
correct, but if OP is doing 70mph the bike shouldn't be overtaking (let alone undertake when the outside lane is clear). I would have moved to the inside lane mind, given the minute duration to overtake and the fact I would unlikely get stuck behind the 2nd lorry as Mway was quiet.
BTW: TJ -> litterbug