Pretty seething on opening letter this morning where Birmingham council are fining me 120 for driving in their central clean air zone and not paying a daily charge. I drove down one evening in December for business did not see any signs, did not know about a central area daily charge so can they really find me for something I did not know ?
They also offer a reduced fine of 60 if you pay in 14 days but that then also stops you being able to appeal.
London congestion charge is well known and managed but this feels like a back door way for the council to earn more cash. I would be happy to pay the daily fee if I had known about it...
Maybe i’m Just out of touch but it definitely makes me not go back to Birmingham and warn others about fines. Looks like they are aiming for other areas such as Bradford and bath as well.
So do I just pay the 60 quid or appeal with the risk of the larger fine because they say I should have seen the roadside signs in heavy traffic with roadworks ....
I haven't been, but did you not see the signs?
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/20076/pollution/1763/a_clean_air_zone_for_birmingham/5
You can't blooming move in London without being warned about the ULEZ...
How did you miss the signage it's everywhere tbh. It's also driven congestion to suburban roads so it's working well.
We had to get rid of a perfectly good fabia tdi because my wife has no option to use her car. Happy she is moving job location so no more pebble hill parking.
How confident are you that there were no signs on your route in? Or were they there and you didn't see them?
They'll be too new to see on street view. Do you have a dascham that you can review the footage on and potentially use as evidence?
If not then you'd have to re drive the route and double check for signage.
If none of the above are doable then you'll have to suck it up and pay the fine.
I live in Cardiff and I know about the Brum CAZ. Local authorities have been dragged kicking and screaming by courts into bringing air pollution rates down, none of them have wanted to do anything about pollution as they are scared it will upset drivers...the courts are forcing local authorities and Westminster and devolved Govts to discharge their legal obligations to not have unhealthy levels of pollution in their cities. See also 50mph fixed average speed cameras on some stretches of Welsh roads
I think ignorance is an inadmissible defence.
suck it up and move on.
Nope did not see the signs, it was dark and I was trying to navigate in heavy traffic and stay within speed limit so it’s not to say they were not there but more they may have not been well lit and obvious.
Not going to go back and gather info as time is too short, probably missed that it came into force during Covid times but it still feels like the first thing they should do is give you the chance to pay the £8 daily not straight to fine ...
Pay 60 and move on if it were me
I live in Cardiff and I know about the Brum CAZ.
TBH, I live in the Scottish Highlands and even I knew about it!
feels like a back door way for the council to earn more cash
You must be new to driving.
I know someone who was fined considerably more than that going to the QE hospital & back for a week. They followed Google Maps which took them through the Queensway tunnels under the zone. I checked & Google didn’t warn you.
If not then you’d have to re drive the route and double check for signage
that will bring the total up to £240 🙂
Birmingham, Bristol, Bath…
Is there something about cities beginning with ‘B’ that is driving these zones? Probably not, but I’ve been aware of them for some considerable time, and it basically drove my decision to get rid of my old diesel Octavia and replace it with a very much newer petrol car, as I’m very close to both cities, and visit both occasionally, Bristol for gigs in the evenings.
signage is everywhere, even if you missed one it's posted several times on approach before you even enter the zone and you then have 6 days to pay the charge before the fine.
Sorry, but failing to spot the signs is not a defence.
Don't worry they want to turn queensway and the Chinese tunnels into a pedestrian walkway with hanging gardens.
ignorance of the law is no excuse under the law - as a licensed driver its your responsibility to follow the law
Birmingham, Bristol, Bath…
Is there something about cities beginning with ‘B’ that is driving these zones? Probably not, but I’ve been aware of them for some considerable time, and it basically drove my decision to get rid of my old diesel Octavia and replace it with a very much newer petrol car, as I’m very close to both cities, and visit both occasionally, Bristol for gigs in the evenings.
Sheffield is bringing one in too. Although it's no camper vans, or only camper vans, or camper vans with over or under x amount of Willy's Surf Shack stickers, I can't remember which, but either way - it makes sense.
Thought you could appeal and stop the clock ticking for the reduced fee?
I had a similar issue with Wolverhampton bus lanes, there were a lot of roadworks and I swear one of the diversion signs sent me down one.
Appealed and had one dropped (I drove down it twice trying to find my way to train station 😂) but paid the other, guess I must have just gotten it wrong.
Birmingham pcn fine clean air zone – £120 !!
The council is not there to make mortal living easy.
Therefore, giving you a fine is a way to justify their existence and pension package.
If it makes you feel any better I knew for months that Brum were introducing a CAZ and still fell foul of it. I just forgot to pay in the required time frame.
The signs are pretty much everywhere and there was some very big advertising hoardings on the main routes into the City.
Luckily for me now my new van is exempt for the time being…….
Pay it and learn, being a bit peeved you cocked up isn't grounds for appeal. Better steer clear of the whole of Greater Manchester soon as well if you're driving a commercial vehicle.
Luckily for me now my new van is exempt for the time being…….
Not for long until they dream up of something else ...
Pay it and learn, being a bit peeved you cocked up isn’t grounds for appeal. Better steer clear of the whole of Greater Manchester soon as well if you’re driving a commercial vehicle.
Yes, pay it but should you keep voting for the likes you are just tightening the noose on yourself.
I drive a 2005 Toyota Corolla with a road tax of £265 per year and rumor has it some blood sucking zombie maggot parasites are going to increase that this year. If they can't get you in other way they will get you this way.
Dartford crossing had an amnesty period for this, you just paid the crossing fee.
They might be going harder in Birmingham but it's a bit off when the scheme is new
Better steer clear of the whole of Greater Manchester soon as well if you’re driving a commercial vehicle.
The motorways are not in the zone within Greater Manchester
There's debate about it for Derby too (as the council has sat with it's finger up it's asre for so long not sorting decent public transport options or cycling (ok in the city itself in places but ends in an unsafe abrupt way at the city border, even though 90% + of the commuters are from outside the city.).
Ohhh and they desperately wanted to use tax £££ to pay taxi drivers to get cleaner cars - FFS why should they be subsidised over everyone else or proper public transport. Eeejits in charge everywhere.
I live in Bradford and they are enforcing a CAZ. It was supposed to start 1st Jan but its been postponed until spring as the council aren't ready.
My daily driver is a van that is not used for commercial use. I've asked several times about the exemptions as its going to cost me £45 per week to travel to work. The council don't seem to be in any rush on giving people information.
What’s your vehicle? I have a 2005 Subaru and it wouldn’t be caught by the CAZ in Brum, so presumably an old (and therefore polluting) diesel?
Born and bred brummie here, moved out of Birmingham after 52 years and now live in a quiet village in east Yorkshire 🙂 ... Things like the congestion charge helped me make my mind up to move on , My daily commute took me through the city centre ever day and so an extra £40 a week just to get to work soon starts adding up ! .. all the clean air charge has done is force the cars into the smaller streets around the clean air zone and make the pollution even worse around the residents.
An old school friend has a small garage just inside the zone and he's decided to close up after 35 years as fed up with less work etc and those that do come to his garage want the £8 deducted from the bill etc !
Its the councils way of paying for the commonwealth games being held up the road this year
Glad this has sparked some discussion and hopefully not just me are more aware where these schemes are playing out.
Car is a trusty 2013 bmw 5 with 180k on the clock and still going strong so little reason or cash to change. 1 year off euro 6 engine. There is also a carbon cost in changing cars that i’m Not sure many take into account ...
Car is a trusty 2013 bmw 5 with 180k on the clock and still going strong so little reason or cash to change
Apart from the fact it’s been identified as one of the heaviest polluting vehicles by the clean air zone?
1 year off euro 6 engine. There is also a carbon cost in changing cars that i’m Not sure many take into account …
Not if you buy a second hand car. If you’re that bothered by the CAZ (and I’m not - we have one here in Bath which doesn’t charge private cars yet, but it’s only a matter of time. We compared the cost of changing car to the cost of paying each time we entered the zone and it was way more expensive to buy a new car) then sell your car and buy the Euro 6 version - unlikely to be dramatically more expensive between a 13 plate and 14 plate.
Or avoid city centres, which is the whole point of a CAZ.
ignorance of the law is no excuse under the law – as a licensed driver its your responsibility to follow the law
But no/rubbish signs is a defence against parking tickets.
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FWIW this is the first I have heard of the Birmingham scheme (luckily I live nowhere near Birmingham. Used to have a girlfriend in Selly Oak and Brum is my least favourite place in the whole world, I think even worse than London)
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These schemes do strike me as a way of pricing the poor off the road so that the wealthy can drive about without any traffic jams, of they really want to reduce air pollution ban all cars from certain areas, but of course that is much less profitable
But no/rubbish signs is a defence against parking tickets.
If that was the case then challenge it. But it isn't.
These schemes do strike me as a way of pricing the poor off the road so that the wealthy can drive about without any traffic jams, of they really want to reduce air pollution ban all cars from certain areas, but of course that is much less profitable
I think they can have that effect (affecting less well off drivers with older cars who can't afford to change) but your 'why' is miles off.
Or avoid city centres, which is the whole point of a CAZ
In Greater Manchester's case it will be all the way out to the county boundary of Derbyshire, including rural and semi-rural areas.
Bring these schemes on IMHO. Raging motorists are fun to laugh at 😀
In OPs defence, the city doesn't even appear the understand it's own CAZ.
A council overseeing a pollution-busting Clean Air Zone (CAZ) for city centre traffic has issued 82 fines - to itself.
Birmingham City Council vehicles incurred charges by driving through areas where transport is required to follow certain emission standards.
It then incurred fines when those fees were not paid in time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57820955
Nope did not see the signs, it was dark and I was trying to navigate in heavy traffic and stay within speed lim
I wouldn't use that as a defence, sounds like driving without due care and attention to me, that'd add some points to your licence as well as a bigger fine.
Yes its a rip off and the local council has spent much of its history either not caring a jot, or licensing polluting companies to burn/dispose of waste.
Pay it, then put in some claims for damage from potholes 😉
£60 early payment? Sounds like a bargain compared to the late payment charges for the Mersey gateway bridge each time I’ve gotten one I kick myself for not remembering to have paid the evening of my journey. And of course a day later I get the charge for the return leg 😖 https://merseygateway.co.uk/
there was probably similar upset when London created its CCZ many years ago.
Like folks have said, there are a number of similar schemes planned or already in operation. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/10/the-ulez-clean-air-zone-is-expanding-from-25-october---here-s-wh/
Maybe time to consider getting something less polluting? https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/21/22585682/electric-vehicles-greenhouse-gas-emissions-lifecycle-assessment
These schemes are a useful incentive to move to cleaner transport. But it must be upsetting to be unaware, inattentive, and find an unexpected charge land on your doormat.
I was caught in August/Sept.
I had no idea the area was so large. I was going from the M6 to Bristol Road, I was under the impression that it was the central area. I went through the tunnels to Bristol Road. That is in the area. Anything after Matalan Island is in the zone, which, in my view, is there to make money rather than reduce emissions, as it is the usual route to get from North to South.
I rang them up, and was offered to pay the £8 that day, and the fine would be cancelled. Try that first, but being as its 6 months on, they may be stricter now.
These schemes do strike me as a way of pricing the poor off the road so that the wealthy can drive about without any traffic jams, of they really want to reduce air pollution ban all cars from certain areas, but of course that is much less profitable
Another view could be helping to help protect the health of the poor and vulnerable who can’t afford to live in ‘nice’ areas
Our health improved when we moved from Bradford which has massive amounts of transport related pollution to rural Shropshire
Must admit I didn’t know Brum had a zone. Do they work on ANPR and check a database?
I got caught by the Birmingham clean air zone charging as well after going to a Nick Cave concert last October at the Symphony Hall. It was a dark and rainy night and neither me or my passenger noticed any warning signs.
I was actually fined £180 as I did not respond to the first letter which. after extensive searching of the house, am pretty certain was never delivered. This second letter made it quite clear that there would soon be proceedings to recover the debt and no chance to appeal.
What really frustrated me was that there were no information signs at the car park we used or at the venue we visited. Surely the Council who implemented the scheme should be doing everything possible to make sure visitors from out of town are made aware of the scheme and working with car parks and visitor attractions would seem to be a cheap and effective way of doing this. The fact that this does not happen makes me think that the Council want to fine out of towners rather than have them pay the £8.
My car is a 2007 diesel S-Max which only gets driven once or twice a week. I cannot see how it would be more green to scrap this and buy a new cleaner car as the emissions from manufacturing that would far outweigh what my car will emit during the next few years until it reaches the end of its life.
I would have preferred using public transport to driving but that was not possible as no trains were running late enough to make it possible.
To add insult to injury it took 50+ minutes to exit the multi-storey car park after the gig as only one of the three exit barriers was working. The emissions caused by that must have been significant.
To those who say the signage is clear and the council have communicated information about the CAZ to people google how many of the Council's own vehicles have been caught in the zone to see exactly how badly this has been handled.
To those who say the signage is clear and the council have communicated information about the CAZ to people google how many of the Council’s own vehicles have been caught in the zone to see exactly how badly this has been handled.
I find 82, in an article that says there have been 44,000 tickets issued.
How many liable vehicles do Brum council have x how many days in operation to find out how many haven't been caught, give us some context? How many are the same person / vehicle on multiple days? Is that 1%? I suspect more like fractions of a %, ie: not significant as a measure of how badly it has been handled (but funny nevertheless)
When your appeal gets to court, and if they will not let your guide dog in then, tell them that you are going to stop driving.
That will show them.
My car is a 2007 diesel S-Max which only gets driven once or twice a week. I cannot see how it would be more green to scrap this and buy a new cleaner car as the emissions from manufacturing that would far outweigh what my car will emit during the next few years until it reaches the end of its life.
They aren't asking you to scrap your car, just not to drive it into a city which has bad air quality affecting peoples lives. Or pay for the privilege (for the moment until they are banned completely).
