Panther and leopard among reported big cat sightings in Wales - BBC News
A sighting of a "panther" between Capel Bangor and Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, was reported to Dyfed Powys Police (DPP) on 30 May 2023, with the reporter saying they were driving when they saw a "large black cat" come over a hedge and land on the road in front of him. The animal then "pounced across the road" before jumping over another hedge.
It was described as "jet black, smooth/short coat, muscular, long tail, and the size of a Labrador dog"
Jet black, smooth coat, size of a labrador dog you say? I tell you what it could have been...
Jet black, smooth coat, size of a labrador dog you say? I tell you what it could have been...
Given it didn't smash its way into the car in search of crisps or biscuits, and jumped over a hedge, I'm ruling out a Labrador.
(sample size, one, but enough anecdata elsewhere to have a high confidence interval)
A bit like alien visitations, you would think the ubiquity of high resolution image recording devices in the pockets of 99% of the population would have resulted in an explosion of high quality footage.
I’m going with bigfoot, just as likely tbh
When we used to live near Stroud a few years ago, there was a local woman who used to spot a "panther" in or around Rodborough common on a regular basis. No one else locally seemed to spot it. Every couple of months or so, the Stroud News & Journal would humour her and cover it. Good copy on a quiet week I suppose.
Hundreds of claimed sightings every year and yet in an age of dash cams, CCTV, doorbell cameras and when everyone carries a high resolution still and video camera, there is no convincing imagery. Every blurry pic I've seen looks like an image of a moggie or dog, taken with a potato. None shot by farmers or gamekeepers, none hit by cars and found as roadkill, none caught in baited live capture traps.
I think it's possible there were a few kicking about for a short while in the 70s or 80s whenever the law changed about keeping big cats at a private premises and people released them. I'm skeptical that there are breeding populations or significant numbers now though, if any at all, for the reasons above.
I'd like to be proved wrong though. The thought that there were wild predators capable of eviscerating you* living in the British countryside, would certainly spice up outdoor activities!
*I'm aware the most likely species are actually very wary of humans,
Another sighting was "when the reporter saw a "leopard with spots walking around the garden when their dog was let out".
The report stated that the dog did not react and "security lights kept coming on as it was walking around"."
I am pretty ****ing sure a dog would have reacted to a leopard.
Round here some sightings were linked to a large Savannah cat. To be fair in bad light with a bad backdrop suspect could get confused at just how big it was.
I’m going with bigfoot, just as likely tbh
Well not really. Big cats exist on Earth, and we know they're traded illegally. There have been instances where various exotic animals including big-ish cats have been found dead IIRC, I think one was killed on a road.
Not trying to support the claims but unless you have properly rehearsed and practiced, it won't matter how high quality the camera on your phone is - by the time you have it in hand and able to take a picture, the thing has already gone...
There have been instances where various exotic animals including big-ish cats have been found dead IIRC, I think one was killed on a road.
Those tend to be rare and we end up with lots of sightings and then photos of it either in a cage or dead. As blokeuptheroad says its possible a few were around for a time post the dangerous animals act.
Last year we had the Cairngorm lynxes but those are a good example of what happens when you release effectively tame animals into the wild. Quickly spotted with decent photos and then caught soon afterwards.
That said I wouldnt rule out there being some other lynx living quietly after some guerrilla rewilding by someone competent (the cairngorm ones I suspect was someone getting rid of unwanted pets vs rewilding).
A bit like alien visitations, you would think the ubiquity of high resolution image recording devices in the pockets of 99% of the population would have resulted in an explosion of high quality footage.
That said I wouldnt rule out there being some other lynx living quietly after some guerrilla rewilding by someone competent
Re-wild? the guerrillas were re-livid!
Last year we had the Cairngorm lynxes but those are a good example of what happens when you release effectively tame animals into the wild. Quickly spotted with decent photos and then caught soon afterwards.
I have a default setting for people claiming big cat sightings of "they're full of ****" but those Lynx released were already used to humans and as far as I understand would not behave that way without a lifetime of captivity and would be much harder to photograph.
I’m convinced I saw a Scottish wild cat sat in the road late at night driving between Tyndrum and Loch Awe a few years ago. There’s basically no houses on that stretch so I can’t imagine it was a domestic cat and it was also noticeably bigger that a normal moggy. Unfortunately my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and refused to believe me when I woke her up to tell her…
I had an entire rugby team swear on their mother's lives they all saw a big black cat near Melton Mobray about 2006.
I'm sure they saw some thing, I doubt it was a big cat as there have been 0 kills, 0 other news reports and zero sightings.
But 13 fifteen year old students all saw it so it must have been true 😃
Have you ever seen a 'Big Cat' in the UK? Do you believe that there are big cats here?
byu/ToriaLyons inAskUK
And a bloke up the road from me keeps lions!
My short sighted ex partner excitedly pointed out a big black puma while walking on Dartmoor a few years ago.
It was a calf running down a field towards its mother...
The most unreliable evidence is an eyewitness
A shortsighted mate from Lesotho spotted meerkats on the hillside skyline locally to me here in Wales.
Thistles.
I’m convinced I saw a Scottish wild cat sat in the road late at night driving between Tyndrum and Loch Awe a few years ago. There’s basically no houses on that stretch so I can’t imagine it was a domestic cat and it was also noticeably bigger that a normal moggy. Unfortunately my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and refused to believe me when I woke her up to tell her…
At the risk of outing myself (and my mum/dad) as loonies, I admit to seeing a large cat shaped object that ran in front of my dads pickup on the single track road leading to Dalavich from Taynuilt, we lived in Dalavich at the time (mid 80’s) halfway down loch Awe and very remote.
We were a few miles from home and I remember seeing a glimpse of something large run out from the side of the forest/road and caught in the lights, it’s eyes glowed as it looked our way and then it was gone, dad slammed the brakes on and I remember the shock and outburst from my mum/dad very vividly.
Lots of reports at the time from others in the area but I never saw anything again despite spending hours/days/weekends with my mates from the village (Neil/fergus) up exploring/camping in the hills with my sheath knife and Webley Tempest .22 air pistol or my Dads Webley .22 air gun (as if that’d secure my trophy 😉) , mum saw it a few weeks later in the morning out the front of the houses at dalavich, there’s a hill/grassy bank out front leading up to old forest and she saw it making its way up the hill. We had a wee shop/post office in the village that had a map on the wall with all the sightings.
The only thing that ever drew blood from me at the time was the clouds of midges that ate us alive, I wasn’t scared of the cat.
I’m convinced I saw a Scottish wild cat sat in the road late at night driving between Tyndrum and Loch Awe a few years ago. There’s basically no houses on that stretch so I can’t imagine it was a domestic cat and it was also noticeably bigger that a normal moggy. Unfortunately my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and refused to believe me when I woke her up to tell her…
For reference, Scottish Wildcat typical weights for males range from 3.77 to 7.26kg, Moggy cats 3.6kg to 4.5kg typical healthy range, AI also suggests a range of 3 to 7kg, Maine Coon domestic cats range from 8kg to 10kg for males.
Would be awesome to see a Scottish Wildcat, I don't think I'd ever get that lucky
I remember the shock and outburst from my mum/dad very vividly.
Lots of reports at the time from others in the area
Is it possible that these things influenced each other and you? Your parents had read/heard the reports and were subconsciously primed to see what others had reported? Their reaction and the conversation afterwards influenced what you, an impressionable child thought you saw?
I don't think you're a looney. It's possible I suppose you did see a big cat, I just think that a bit of "group think" can happen in these situations and that the subconscious can influence what we think see.
Aaaages ago I was chatting to a ranger in the Chilterns (this would've been the early naughts) and he reckoned that he'd seen the evidence left by big cats attacking sheep. He made a pretty good case for them either escaping or being released by owners when they got to rowdy (The cats not the owners) or too expensive to feed.
That one in Wales; my money's still on it being a Lab
Scottish wildcat, while rare, are definitly possible to spot. Back in the late 90s, I missed out on seeing one, but one of the guys I was with actually got a photo (film camera!).
Other big cats, though, are unlikely, even an individual animal would leave sufficient evidence over its lifetime that we'd be aware of its existence in a small and densely populated island like ours.
Those tend to be rare
Yes, I'm not saying it's likely or all the sightings are true, I'm saying it's more likely than Bigfoot which don't even exist 🙂
As for high resolution cameras in everyone's pocket - yes, but they don't tend to have good quality zoom lenses. If you've ever tried to take wildlife pics you'll realise that even with semi decent kit getting a good shot of a wild animal during a chance encounter - where it's both wary of you and startled - is next to impossible. Never mind with a phone in the dark.
Big cat DNA taken from dead sheep in Wales??
DISCOVERWILDLIFE.COM
Big cat DNA also been found on hair analysis in several places..................
There have always been rumours, all over the place. Has anything ever been found? Big cats roaming the place that never take a shit?
This was filmed at my school:
Big cats roaming the place that never take a shit?
As it goes, Warwick University have this advice if you do find some poop. (Found via the BBC Discover Wildlife website just above your post).
Scat: not all of it please, a slither is fine.
That reads like some proper chunky logs have been posted to them before...
WARWICK.AC.UK
Is it possible that these things influenced each other and you? Your parents had read/heard the reports and were subconsciously primed to see what others had reported? Their reaction and the conversation afterwards influenced what you, an impressionable child thought you saw?
I don't think you're a looney. It's possible I suppose you did see a big cat, I just think that a bit of "group think" can happen in these situations and that the subconscious can influence what we think see.
In the late sixties and seventies, when space travel was still big news, there were loads and loads of UFO sightings. As people got bored with the Space Race, there were far fewer UFO sightings. They tended to peak a bit after each big movie blockbuster about space invaders.
I consider this conclusive proof that the aliens are out there and they're monitoring us. Whenever we start fiddling around with space or making movies about it, they all come to the Earth to have a look at us.
Possibly the same with big cats. Maybe they're in league with aliens.
Is it possible that these things influenced each other and you? Your parents had read/heard the reports and were subconsciously primed to see what others had reported? Their reaction and the conversation afterwards influenced what you, an impressionable child thought you saw?
I don't think you're a looney. It's possible I suppose you did see a big cat, I just think that a bit of "group think" can happen in these situations and that the subconscious can influence what we think see.
Possibly the same with big cats. Maybe they're in league with aliens.
And dolphins too. Apparently.
About 20 years ago my mates Dad was shipped over from Canada with a guy who had spent his whole life tracking cats in British Columbia. They went all over the OK to where wild cats had apparently been seen. All the evidence that was presented was debunked - lots of footprints, bite marks, blurry photos, all shown to be dogs.
As Robbie said on camera "If there's big cats out there they have to walk, eat, shit and eventually die. All these things leave evidence and there isn't any."
Now it's possible of course that there is evidence out there that wasn't shown to them, but they spent a month going round Bodmin, Dartmoor, Yorkshire, bits of Wales and the Peaks and they found nothing.
That reads like some proper chunky logs have been posted to them before...
Yeah, that's an instruction with a history isn't it.
Username checks out....
😁
I spent months trying to track down a copy of that film, including writing to the BFI, FilmFour and the production company (I got a reply from the Director's wife). No-one has it. My own version is a transfer from a VHS recording of the Channel 4 broadcast, complete with 1980s adverts.
And now someone's stuck it up on YouTube.
As Robbie said on camera "If there's big cats out there they have to walk, eat, shit and eventually die. All these things leave evidence and there isn't any."
A big cat was shot near Widecombe when I lived further down the valley, 30 odd years ago. It made local news, not national.
Ben Mee, Dartmoor Zoo owner, spotted a young male puma near his zoo about twenty years ago.
An owner of Paignton Zoo admitted releasing her cats on the moor rather than putting them down.
I know two people who saw lynx in the Neath valley forests, both riding* separately and both reliable. (One, a biology graduate with an interest in wildlife. I'm not sure what else a lynx could be confused with around here.)
And, not a cat obviously, but a skunk made national news this week after being found roaming around Scotland.
but they spent a month going round Bodmin, Dartmoor, Yorkshire, bits of Wales and the Peaks and they found nothing.
Only a month and in various locations around the UK? That doesn't give much time in each and doesn't really show the commitment to uncovering the truth that we need. Remember that guy who spent twenty, thirty years camped on Loch Ness looking for Nessie? 😀 But seriously, those are some huge areas of wilderness that could take a whole month just to explore, never mind work out where mythical wildlife might be lurking.
There were big cats released after the DWAA 1976 was passed, which experts generally agree would have been too widespread to breed but people still keep wild animals under licence and there are still escapes, as is obvious from above, and deliberate releases, as evident with the lynx released last year. How can people lose skunks or lynx but the authorities don't now where they've come from?
The only big cats that I can see forming a small, viable breeding population may be lynx. They are so difficult to see, even when captive, that I could believe that there may be some around and they would fit into the UK's ecosystem easily.
*the witnesses, not the cats, obviously. Lynx only ever chain-gang in groups..
. Has anything ever been found?
Wild Lynx shot by gamekeeper and found by the police in his freezer
Wild Lynx shot by gamekeeper and found by the police in his freezer
... 35 years ago.
It's an interesting story and all, but there's little evidence beyond a policeman's eye witness statement. The cat itself has seemingly disappeared. A brief google turned up nothing else (though it was brief).
Why was the gamekeeper in the freezer?
"At the start of the search in an outhouse, which contained a large chest freezer, I asked him what he had in the freezer, and he replied: 'Oh only some pigeons and a lynx'," the officer who wrote the report says
Are we sure the game keeper wasn't Arthur Webley
A big cat was shot near Widecombe when I lived further down the valley, 30 odd years ago. It made local news, not national.
Sure. And just like the Lynx in the Cairngorms 18 months ago it was spotted and dealt with. No-on is saying there have never been cats out there but they are released, found and shot or captured.
Ben Mee, Dartmoor Zoo owner, spotted a young male puma near his zoo about twenty years ago.
An owner of Paignton Zoo admitted releasing her cats on the moor rather than putting them down.
I know two people who saw lynx in the Neath valley forests, both riding* separately and both reliable. (One, a biology graduate with an interest in wildlife. I'm not sure what else a lynx could be confused with around here.)
But this is all "he saw this" and "she said that". There is no evidence. I can say I saw a T-Rex roaming the Perthshire hills and it's meaningless.
Robbie spent most of the month with the big cat expert in the South West. He went through all of his "evidence" and dismissed it all. My mates Dad went round the other areas going to the known hotspots and again found nothing.
Most of the evidence was pawprints or tooth marks. There are clear differences - cats retract their claws when they walk so as to not blunt them. Dogs can't retract their claws. The pawprints this guy had all showed claw marks. He had carcasses with bite marks. Again there are big differences between dogs teeth and cats teeth, all the stuff he had was clearly dog.
If there are cats out there, they have to walk they have to eat and they have to die. There has never been a carcass or skeleton of a cat found, there has never been a sheep or deer carcass found with cat bite marks even in the bones. There's no cat paw prints. Until any of these things happen, there are no cats.
About 10-20 years ago there were regular sightings of a panther like "Beast of Belper", sometimes linked to attacks on sheep.
Doesn't seem to happen anymore. Stopped about the time themuffinman moved. Allegedly.
Neither do all cats, to be fair. Cheetahs don't for a start.
That'd explain the sightings. Pawprints with claws, and no-one can catch the bugger.
I can recall 2 odd things from my biking ventures...
One in a field near Stirling, middle of the field a long black shape moving at speed. Didn't really move like a black lab and also looked longer...had a sort of graceful movement like a bigger cat has when running. I suspect it was a dog but also unsure what it was doing in that field - middle of nowhere really with other fields surrounding that one and the only settlement was a farm (with 3 collie-type dogs that were very patchy black and white).
Other time was up Ben Venue from the north east-ish side. Got the edge of the forest and about to move onto the open hillside when we stopped for a breather...and heard a rasping breathing noise in the trees.
There had.been news reports of wild cats being sighted at the time, so suspect we were already cautious, but the raspy breathing wasn't either of us.
We decided to chicken out and head back down the fire track...the breathing noise did follow us as we stopped about a minute later and it was there, to the side but a bit faster breathing. We raced down to the car park, got the bikes on the roof and legged it. Still no idea what it was and still don't really care to know.
Both were odd and unexpected, no idea what they were, but they add to the mystique of wild cats roaming free in the UK (well, probably don't add anything really!).
and heard a rasping breathing noise in the trees.
There had.been news reports of wild cats being sighted at the time, so suspect we were already cautious, but the raspy breathing wasn't either of us.
We decided to chicken out and head back down the fire track...the breathing noise did follow us as we stopped about a minute later and it was there, to the side but a bit faster breathing. We raced down to the car park, got the bikes on the roof and legged it. Still no idea what it was and still don't really care to know.
A squirrel with asthma? I was walking with my daughter a few weeks ago and there was a massive scuffling in the nearby undergrowth which concerned her a bit. I explained that blackbirds are the noisiest creatures known and sound like a blind, drunk yeti sometimes. Normally if I hear raspy breathing it's livestock. ambush predators don't give the game away by sounding like grandad with emphysema. 😀
