My initial reaction was that it was fake, but it's everywhere, apparently arrests have been made and to all intents and purposes, it happened...
Three bungee (think it was rope swing, rather than bungee) employees/organisers, the girl and everyone watching failed to notice the rope wasn't attached to her.
Something very strange about this
Probably best not to watch this stuff. Look after yourself.
Reading about it tells you enough:
THEGUARDIAN.COM
I don’t think it’s strange, just a big ****-up - amateurs pretending to be professionals.
It sounds awful. Surely their have to be safety checks before a jump!
It's on the BBC website too.
BBC.CO.UK Poor drills by the "organisers".
But then I know of, perhaps, three UK incidents where climbers have tied in to abseil back down only to find they hadn't. So if there's not enough checks shit WILL happen.
When I did rope stuff I'd talk it through and get to other person to check as I went but then I'm a bit paranoid about dropping off stuff.
When i bungeed at killiecrankie i thought the three instructors were amazing. Seamlessly they all checked independently without being too obvious.
Only ever one person at a time doing anything on my kit which i imagine was be design for that very reason. No assumption someone else did something.
When i bungeed at killiecrankie i thought the three instructors were amazing. Seamlessly they all checked independently without being too obvious.
Same here. Really professional throughout.
That's pretty horrific though, I imagine you'd have a second or so of realisation and absolute terror before the end.
I read the article earlier and took it at face value so nothing to say other than its utterly tragic/awful thing to happen.
Its almost incomprehensible that nobody realised but unfortunately I can definitely believe it.
I assumed when reading the article that the organisers were not really officially sanctioned for that type of thing and maybe just some guys who had bought the kit and set-up business but that is total speculation on my part.
Years back I knew a girl who had a summer holiday on a Greek island.
There was a bungee tower on the beach and a girl had been chickening out of doing a jump all day.
One of the staff got angry and told her there's nothing to it and jumped to show her how easy it was.
He wasn't roped up.
One of the staff got angry and told her there's nothing to it and jumped to show her how easy it was.
He wasn't roped up.
That must surely be a good Darwin award entry!
Even at go ape, it seems to be standard (or was a decade+ back) for one person to get you in the harness and the second person to verify it!
Happens, sadly. Outward bound course when I was 14. Went to abseil down Malham Cove, got over the edge ready to go, one of the instructors realised that I was just holding onto the rope and hadn't been attached.
Yeah, doesn't surprise me really. Although saying that, these things don't happen all the time so even the shonky looking ones in holiday resorts must be doing something right. Or are very lucky....
I did a bungee in New Zealand off the kawarau bridge yeeeeaaars ago (1999!) and, as above, it was very professional. I asked to be dipped into the river to my knees and they worked out exactly how much tension to have on the rope. I was never worried about not being attached, but I suppose this lady wasn't either!
Yeah, doesn't surprise me really. Although saying that, these things don't happen all the time so even the shonky looking ones in holiday resorts must be doing something right. Or are very lucky....
I did a bungee in New Zealand off the kawarau bridge yeeeeaaars ago (1999!) and, as above, it was very professional. I asked to be dipped into the river to my knees and they worked out exactly how much tension to have on the rope. I was never worried about not being attached, but I suppose this lady wasn't either!
The AJ Hackett site? I've done that one too but I still asked they guys if the rope was connected the two times I jumped because I couldn't see both ends of the bungee. It's also over water that gives you half a chance if something goes wrong. Maybe I have trust issues.
Even at go ape, it seems to be standard (or was a decade+ back) for one person to get you in the harness and the second person to verify it!
At a site in France the heights involved are about 3x that of go ape & they just send you off on your own, instructors aren't even in view all the way round the various rope swings, zip wires etc
Accrobranches - Parc des Grands Chenes
It's bloody brilliant if you are ever in the area 👍
Whatever the details, it's a real tragedy and chilling stuff.
We need to wait for whatever full report / court case before confirming anything.
However, as others are saying this is why routines and checks are vital on these things, and not left to human chance.
instructors aren't even in view all the way round the various rope swings, zip wires etc
They generally aren't in view at Go Ape either.
At a site in France the heights involved are about 3x that of go ape & they just send you off on your own, instructors aren't even in view all the way round the various rope swings, zip wires etc
Failing to see how else it could be done short of having an instructor following everyone round and checking every clip at every point. I've accompanied school groups: the kids get shown what to do (and more important what not to do such as moving both clips at the same time), demostrate they can do it on series of obstacles just off the ground and if they perform OK then off they go on the big stuff.
I watched someone who is now a caving instructor feed a rope through a figure of eight, get distracted then lean back to start an abseil before realising he hadn't connected the eight to his harness, strong arms and hands saved the day. On another occasion a club member did a short abseil with his hands rather than the eight, a heavy landing and loss of flesh was all he suffered.
In the days before SRT I lowered someone who fell off a caving ladder about 15m on a shoulder belay from a stance wedged in a stream way. Happily I was wearing a wet suit so no rope burn. The addition of a few bolts might have upset the ecologists but sure makes caving safer.
Even the best make silly mistakes: Llyn Hill.
I watched someone who is now a caving instructor feed a rope through a figure of eight, get distracted then lean back to start an abseil before realising he hadn't connected the eight to his harnes
I may have done this...
I did a one day climbing course on a lads hillwalking break once. I am not a climber - forgive me if I get the techy lingo wrong. I was at the top of a cliff, leaning over and looking down the rock face with my harness taking the not inconsiderable strain of my lardy frame, ready to belay someone (a big old unit) up from the bottom. My harness was attached to a big old webbing strap looped around a large rock behind me.
The instructor walked past, stopped behind me and told me to inch backwards, slowly and carefully. He then pointed out that I had inadvertently karabinered the anchor strap to a flimsy stitched loop on my harness. Intended for holding a chalk bag or some such, not the actual strong point designed to take the load. The instructor's face went very white as it slowly dawned on me what could have happened!
He then pointed out that I had inadvertently karabinered the anchor strap to a flimsy stitched loop on my harness
Surprising common. Sadly I know someone who died because of this.
I use to climb alot back in the day. What would now be called trad.
The safety thing is so complicated. By the end I’d sort of get my head round it. Often the climbing isn’t where people get hurt. They climb the route and no one falls off. The rope is like a seat belt. There for if it goes wrong. The knots tied to the wrong bit of the harness etc. are never tested
Abseiling and lowering have a veneer of safety but actually there are just controlled falls. Mistakes =death
The commercial operations need rock solid systems. Go Ape in the uk was great. A similar set up in America looked good. But i had to intervene with a child whose mum was on the ground. Her harness was loose. I mean leg loops round her knees loose. The next obstacle you hung on your harness. The staff on the ground could and should have spotted it. I did have a word when i got to ground level
I imagine I'm not alone in saying I'd rather guide my dad into my mum than jump off absolutely anything that required faith in any other human being being responsible for making sure I was tied onto something
I did the AJ Hacket bungy in France. Really confidence inspiring.
I imagine I'm not alone in saying I'd rather guide my dad into my mum than jump off absolutely anything that required faith in any other human being being responsible for making sure I was tied onto something
I think would rather jump of without the bloody bungee.
Another one
He then pointed out that I had inadvertently karabinered the anchor strap to a flimsy stitched loop on my harness
Surprising common. Sadly I know someone who died because of this.
I went for a final attempt on a route I had already failed on twice....
When I checked my partner's belaying I found that he'd clipped me onto his gear loop not his belay loop. It wasn't a big route so I probably wouldn't have died, but would still have been nasty.
I've seen the fig 8 into the gear loop thing, luckily the loop held and she was ok. In that case, it was the gear loop that she was carrying the fig 8 on, she never moved the karabiner across to the belay loop. Ever since, I've always carried descenders on the rear of my harness so I can't make the same error.
I used to be involved in running abseils for big groups, and we had systems to try and prevent this type of silly error, things like;
The abseiler would get in the harness on the ground, and only when that was checked did they get handed a fig 8. So anyone arriving at the top without a fig 8 was a problem and went no further.
A 2nd persion checked their harness again and clipped them into the backup rope. Only then could they approach the edge.
The 3rd person would check their harness, backup connection and then thread up their fig 8, and so on.
Every stage checks the ones before. The worst we ever had was someone's hair getting trapped in the descender, no idea how as it was tied back when they went over the edge!
Roping the climber directly through the harness rather than clipping a fig8 would mitigate some of this. (I rarely do, but some indoor walls mandate it these days.)
Seems clipping into gear loops is common. I've seen it also, I spotted someone belaying from one and intervened.
The worst we ever had was someone's hair getting trapped in the descender, no idea how as it was tied back when they went over the edge!
Yeah, did that, too, halfway down the main freehang pitch of Rowten Pot - so, freehang 100ft up in darkness being lashed by waterfall spray, with a long ponytail dragged into the auto-stop mechanism of a Petzl Stop. Fun times; good opportunity to practise one's mid-rope switchover from descender to jammers. I do know one guy with a Gimli-esque beard who got that caught in a rack descender in similar circumstances...
The worst we ever had was someone's hair getting trapped in the descender, no idea how as it was tied back when they went over the edge!
Hm, I had a buxom colleague get her breast into the fig8. And that was most certainly clothed and restrained when she started...damn that must have smarted.
a rack descender
They really were an accident waiting to happen: thread it the wrong way, lean back, ping! All the bars pop open. The idea wasyou could add and remove bars to adjust friction and as there was more mass it was less likely to overheat and cut the rope than an eight. I prefered an 8 and going very slowly if the descent was dry.
I used to do a little climbing. I had abseiled a fair bit and was competent to tie myself in. I then did a charity abseil at the Falkirk Wheel which was my first "free" abseil. I tied myself in and was checked twice by different people before abseiling. I am glad too because the moment when i abseiled into the open air rather than having my feet in contact with rock was quite something. I feel so sorry for the unfortunate person in this case, and for those who witnessed the incident
It occurs to me suddenly that there's two figure-of-8s here. I was referring to the belay knot, not the abseil ironmongery. (It did sound weird...!)
Indeed cougar. I was about to say exactly that
At work about 10 years ago I had 3 teams on blocks of flats. One of the supervisors had a guy who couldn't admit he was scared. Anyway he climbed 30m up a rope and ****ed up, threaded his decender the wrong way then managed an uncontrolled descent. Poor technique had his back up too low which he pushed all the way down rendering it useless.
Ripped the skin off both hands and broke his ankle. A very very lucky guy. He had over 500 logged hours in his logbook.
Accidents can and do happen.
Little add other than I didn’t realise there were so many other cavers/ex cavers here!
FFJA (YSS NPC CDG)
A near mis for me was my belayer at the wall lowering me. The skin better thumb and first finger was pulled into the belay device. Luckily my daughter and niece were close and able to intervene and rescue her promptly
In some ways there's a lot of parallels between completely different industries. e.g. the idea of getting a 2nd person to verify your work correlates to assuming an operator will make a mistake in a routine task 1inX years, so the second is an independent* layer of protection and you hope that they never have their 1in.... events on the same occasion. Unfortunately nothing is perfect, repeat the same operation several million times around the world and eventually your 1in a million will happen.
*actually we wouldn't take 2 operators as independent, we'd assume that a junior person might just follow incorrect instructions from a supervisor or not check the supervisors work, they'd both be subject to the same pressure, they'd both miss the same fault for the same reason (e.g. the knot looked right, they both used the same defective tool) etc so would actually be far from independent.
He then pointed out that I had inadvertently karabinered the anchor strap to a flimsy stitched loop on my harness
This is an example of something that wouldn't pass in an an engineering example though. There isn't (or shouldn't be) a single credible event like that could kill someone. The control systems will either not let you carry out an action, grey out the buttons, or even hide them entirely until it's safe to press them. Comparing the accessory loops to the buttons on the control system, we don't have the loops so you can't use the wrong one (or if you do, they can only fail in a fairly benign way).
This is an example of something that wouldn't pass in an an engineering example though. There isn't (or shouldn't be) a single credible event like that could kill someone. The control systems will either not let you carry out an action, grey out the buttons, or even hide them entirely until it's safe to press them.
actually we wouldn't take 2 operators as independent, we'd assume that a junior person might just follow incorrect instructions from a supervisor or not check the supervisors work, they'd both be subject to the same pressure, they'd both miss the same fault for the same reason (e.g. the knot looked right, they both used the same defective tool) etc so would actually be far from independent.
That's been a factor in aviation incidents in the past where a junior officer has not felt able to question the captain. Was often more of a cultural thing in airlines flying in countries where age / rank were seen as sacrosanct and it's taken the whole aviation industry decades to try and work around those cultural norms.
Probably the most famous is also the worst aviation disaster in history, the collision of two 747's in Tenerife in 1977 where one of the factors was the hesitation of the flight engineer and the first officer to question or overrule the captain.
I imagine I'm not alone in saying I'd rather guide my dad into my mum than jump off absolutely anything that required faith in any other human being being responsible for making sure I was tied onto something
But you do fly in the magic metal bird and that’s much higher to fall from 🙂
He then pointed out that I had inadvertently karabinered the anchor strap to a flimsy stitched loop on my harness
This is an example of something that wouldn't pass in an an engineering example though. There isn't (or shouldn't be) a single credible event like that could kill someone. The control systems will either not let you carry out an action, grey out the buttons, or even hide them entirely until it's safe to press them. Comparing the accessory loops to the buttons on the control system, we don't have the loops so you can't use the wrong one (or if you do, they can only fail in a fairly benign way).
Most centre harnesses now do not have a gear loop for this reason. I remember letters to DMM from one of my old centres in the 1990's about removing loops. I also understand this is why many accessory loops are also different colours and fabrics these days.
As an example of this at work: we use Kelly/Ghillie/MK kettles. They all come with a bung or whistle 'because reasons'. We cut them off the moment they arrive and tell our staff to actively remove them from any other kettle they see when in schools. Despite this, others do not:
They all come with a bung or whistle 'because reasons'.
Well the reason os so that they can carry water isn't it?
I mean i fully get it and am hyper aware of leaving it in and also pointing the spout away from people as it gets a bit splashy.
CDG
Nope, no for me. Maybe things have improved but back in the early 80s life expectancy wasn't good.
