[Closed] BBC bias - Scottish independence content

Just for good measure http://www.scotsman.com/news/pete-martin-newspapers-united-on-the-referendum-1-3280657

Pour tous mes amis de langue française bonne chance avec votre nouveau forum. Bien qu'il y ait une alternative .... si vous pensez qu'un fil est ennuyeux de ne pas ouvrir 😉

Braveheart sur film 4 maintenant..Channel 4 est biaisé

The netnewsscotland website is run by the despicable cybernats

Aha, I detect a Daily Mail reader 😉

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-bully-pulpit/

bencooper. Look at reluctantlondoners post again, then look at your link again. Need I say more???

Oh, was he being ironic?

Aha, I detect a Daily Mail reader

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-bully-pulpit/

Shock horror! The Daily Mail publishes some crap journalism!

SO if we think the Yes argument is flawed we must be Daily Mail readers?

No, it was the keyword "cybernats" that amused me.

How about "project fear"?

Plenty of nobbery on both sides of this campaign. Sadly.

The netnewsscotland has plenty of the romantic pish that the "Nats" claim isn't used in their argument.

[url= http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/affairs-scotland/8612-robert-burns-on-independence ]Robert Burns on Independance[/url]

FFS! 🙂

It must be hard to report "pish" with a straight face and not seem biased?

Well let's see there's the fee for Scottish drivers taking the car over the border, the rise in prices at the supermarket after independence , mobile phone roaming charges, membership of the EU where the British government has chosen to withhold information from its own subjects , there will be no postal service in Scotland too the list goes on .....it's tough having to report this pish without laughing .
As far as I can see BBC Scotland is not biased there's no BBC instructions to reporters to take a particular position but it is a British organisation , BBC Scotland is a subsidiary and policy is to provide programmes for BBC Britain one of the consequences is a slashed news budget at Pacific Quay overstretched staff and ergo less critical journalism.

the fee for Scottish drivers taking the car over the border

Why would there be?

If they are in the EU wouldn't this be illegal?

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/border-charge-claims-for-scottish-drivers-branded-a-scare-story-1.10858
It was just an example of the scare storIes from the UK govt in this case

Fetchez la vache.

I liked the one about how independence would make every Scot £1 per year worse off 😉

Even the BBC Trust agree..
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/reporting-scotland-censured.23187864

THE BBC's Reporting Scotland programme has been censured over an interview with Ireland's European Affairs Minister about Scots' membership of the EU.

The BBC Trust upheld a complaint from the SNP about the presentation of the interview for the evening news, although complaints about edits for other programmes were rejected.

The Reporting Scotland package a year ago linked a quote from Lucinda Creighton to an interview with then-Scots Secretary Michael Moore where he said: "Scotland would be outside the EU having to negotiate its way back in."

The SNP's scenario of negotiating membership during the two years between a Yes vote and Scotland becoming independent was never put to Ms Creighton, so the link to the quote by Mr Moore, saying "and that's a view shared by the UK Government" was deemed to be a breach of accuracy rules.

@scotroutes - That was one interview, it also shows that the SNP were unhappy, complained and the BBC investigated and acted.

Hardly the actions of a bias media organisation is it?

The one about increased costs at supermarkets came not from the better together camp but from Asda executives. What do they know about price setting in the retail sector? I don't know if prices would increase or not, however it prompted Stan Blackley, prominent member of yes Scotlands campaign then let his personal feelings be known.

"Wouldn't it be great if Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury's and Morrisons left Scotland following a yes vote"

The yes camp like to shout about the businesses for independence. If I was a business leader that supported the UK with an imminent yes vote, I would be very wary about voicing my opinion.

Check on "the one about increased costs in supermarkets" and check again to see what was actually said. It's actually a really good example of biased media reporting.

Edit: Ceud!

piemonster - Member
How about "project fear"?...

Yeah, that one is a real low.

Especially considering that "Project Fear" is the internal name the Better Together mob coined for their campaign.

See there's a new poll out today, and a more hopeful one at that.

I look forward to reading squabbling / gloating / insults on news provider messenger boards soon.

Stan Blackley, Yes Scotland’s deputy director of communities, took to the social networking site Twitter to attack all four of the largest supermarket chains following the warnings by Asda and Morrisons.
“Wouldn’t it be great if Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Morrisons (and) Asda just left Scotland after Yes vote,” he tweeted, adding that this was his personal view.

[url= https://twitter.com/stanblackley/status/410004828237340672 ]Stan Blackley Twitter Feed[/url]

In interviews with the Financial Times, the pair said they would be unwilling to absorb the extra costs of doing business in a separate Scotland or to pass on any additional costs to customers elsewhere in the UK.
The argued they already have lower margins north of the Border due to higher distribution costs and a Scottish Government tax on large shops that sell both tobacco and alcohol.

Your point is?

My point is that nowhere does it say that prices would increase.

Yeah, that one is a real low.

Especially considering that "Project Fear" is the internal name the Better Together mob coined for their campaign.

Schadenfreude?

My point is that nowhere does it say that prices would increase.

Yes it does.

In interviews with the Financial Times, the pair said they would be unwilling to absorb the extra costs of doing business in a separate Scotland or to pass on any additional costs to customers elsewhere in the UK.

What else could "unwilling to absorb the extra costs" possibly mean? Even without any taxation issues, the logistic costs in Scotland are greater.

Asda say they have no plans to increase prices, Morrisons say no plans to increase prices, Tesco say they didn't speak to the ft . Not much sign of a price rise there. Morrisons did say they might have to review their strategy in line with any new Scottish government policies after a yes vote. This could be up or down.

There's only one relevant issue.

Is it better to have your own government in your own country, or to be governed as an irrelevant colony from another?

Depends on what you consider your own country. Also, so much more to a country than it's government. Why should I feel funds should be used to help the poorest in Inverness over say Newcastle? I have relations in Newcastle and don't know anyone in Inverness.

Westminster doesn't always get it right. I don't think wealth is well split. There is plenty that needs improving, however I feel my vote counts there, and would rather work to fix the system and see the positives that Scotland can bring to everyone in these islands, rather than see it's resources carved up amongst those north of Berwick.

Perhaps your question could be put to the people of Orkney and Shetland also.

Strictly speaking I don't care where I'm governed from. Could be governed from Stockholm for all I care.

It's the end result of that governance that concerns me.

athgray - Member
...Westminster doesn't always get it right...

Perhaps your question could be put to the people of Orkney and Shetland also.

Quite a few points there.

Westminster can't be expected to get it right all the time. It obviously has to concentrate on where the larger populations are, which inevitably means the regions and the likes of Scotland are afterthoughts.

Hence the desire for self-determination.

The referendum is about dissolving the Union of 2 kingdoms, not about the secession of regions. Scotland is not a region of England, it is a partner in the Union. There can be only 2 parties to the dissolution, and as Orkney & Shetland are part of the Kingdom of Scotland they cannot be party to this.

In any case there already are talks going on about greater local powers for them and the Hebrides after independence.

rather work to fix the system and see the positives that Scotland can bring to everyone in these islands, rather than see it's resources carved up amongst those north of Berwick.

Yes, but that is just me being selfless, however I regret the Tories are not best placed to redistribute it.

I think someone stated here that the poorest 20% of the UK has only 1% of the wealth, and since Scotland is resource rich we should bugger off with it. Does not seem like an inclusive idea to me.

May come as a surprise that many of the UK's poorest live in cities like Leeds, Liverpool and even London. Surprised dear leader never noticed this when he worked there. Perhaps he doesn't care. He knows who his people are. I know which side I would rather be on.

So who's side are you on athgray? We're often told that wealth flows out from London, or that wealth trickles down from the rich but in the past 30 years inequality has gotten worse. Why not re-adjust the balance by governing ourselves and maybe the trickle of wealth from an independent Scotland might reach northern England a bit quicker than the flow from London has.I am sure London will be ok after all Scotland is a drain on the south east or so they say.

sorry dp

and as Orkney & Shetland are part of the Kingdom of Scotland they cannot be party to this.

Ahem, point of order, no they're not - They were independent crown dependencies at the time of the 1707 act of Union, as per the 1669 Act of Annexation... Let alone the fact that they were originally pawned to Scotland, which makes them a colonial possession, the maintenance of which would be against UN charters on decolonisation, and they would therefore be lawfully entitled to a right of self determination.

Jersey and Guernsey seem to be doing alright on their own, don't they?

ninfan - Member
Ahem, point of order, no they're not - They were independent crown dependencies at the time of the 1707 act of Union, as per the 1669 Act of Annexation...

I stand corrected. My understanding is they became part of the Scottish kingdom as part of the marriage settlement between James II and Margaret of Norway in the 15th century, ie before Union.

Asda say they have no plans to increase prices, Morrisons say no plans to increase prices,

Delusional. The operating costs for an Independent Scotland will be higher. This is down to the geography and the population distribution. Operating a supermarket on Orkney or on Lewis will cost more than in Leeds.

Back to the OP for a moment - how many news outlets covered the latest poll swing to yes?

THM - some good analysis about that poll result here and perhaps why media are cautious about reporting it:

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/01/icm-poll-shows-biggest-swing-yet/

Is it better to have your own government in your own country

We already do. The bottom line is actually how you define 'country'. This has always been complex across Europe.

Interesting ninfan!!! Stats and polls, hey!!!!

Nothing looks set to be more important in determining the outcome of the referendum than who wins and who loses the debate about the economic consequences of independence.

This is what it comes done to, so let's forget the romantic "we just want to be free arguments".

Winston maybe you could help me overcome my delusion and explain why operating costs will rise due to geography when asda and tesco have major distribution centres in Scotland?

explain why operating costs will rise

Are you serious?

I am making the assumption that you live in Scotland and have traveled around your Country?

Without using even the more far flung places as an example, if you want to travel from say Glasgow to Dunoon it is only about 35 miles, however this involves the use of a small car ferry which does not carry HGV's. The road route is about 85' on single carriageway A roads. This is additional time and cost which is currently absorbed by the whole UK network as it is a relatively small percentage of the UK total. Once the overall network is reduced then it will become a more significant percentage and the cost will have offset against a smaller number of customers.

I have actually lived in a more remote Scottish postcode and the vast majority of suppliers/couriers would not deliver or charged a premium to do so.

molgrips - Member
...The bottom line is actually how you define 'country'. This has always been complex across Europe.

Never been complex here. My country is Scotland. UK is a union of countries.

I have actually lived in a more remote Scottish postcode and the vast majority of suppliers/couriers would not deliver or charged a premium to do so.

Exactly, the supermarkets already charge more/less in certain places and there's a premium to send things to far flung places. Things are already more expensive, so what's going to change?

Exactly, the supermarkets already charge more/less in certain places

No they don't for the vast majority of items.

If you go to the Tesco in Kirkwall it is the same price for most things as the Milton Keynes store.

The remote Tesco stores in Lerwick, Kirkwall, Ullapool and Stornoway are surprisingly actually very profitable. Most items are charged the same as elsewhere due to this profitability. Inverness is also quite remote when considering distribution costs, yet the biggest Tesco there is one of the most profitable in the whole of the UK.

There are not many other Tesco, Asda, Morrisons or Sainsburys located in remote areas of Scotland. Unsurprisingly the vast majority are in close proximity to large centres of population. There is a very large Tesco distribution centre in Livingston which services Scottish stores and I believe some stores in the north of England.

Lot's of fresh produce are sourced in Scotland which needs to be transported further afield so I take it costs in the south of England will need to rise as well? Is it that much more expensive to receive produce from Israel for example into Livingston than it is into Bolton or Doncaster?

Prices rising in event of Independence is simply a scare (non)story.

Sorry about the slow reply WD but I still do not understand why prices will rise should Scotland vote yes. The point about transport costs etc doesn't really apply to the central belt.
As for national pricing policy' it seems only Asda operate a policy of the same price in all their stores. Tesco, Morrisons and Sainsbury charge the same price in the same size of stores which disadvantages areas
with low population density as those areas don't get the bigger stores with the cheapest prices. Interestingly the oh so ethical co-op has a policy of charging more in areas where there is less competition such as the part of the Highlands I live in. Thank you Co-op.

I give up.

Regarding the size of stores, this is the difference between Tesco Express and Sainsbury Metro compared to the normal stores.

The tesco in Kirkwall is not very big but is not a Metro or Express or what ever they are called. It sells stuff at the same price as other UK stores, this is their policy. This policy will remain if Scotland becomes independent, however, it will based on different demographics and a much smaller scale.

The central belt of Scotland is a very densely populated area of the UK, it is nothing like the rest of Scotland in so many ways.

Anyway, this will be a minor detail in the whole process if it goes ahead.

I will also repeat what I have said earlier, I am happy for Scotland to decide what they want to do and wish them all the luck. However, I think the whole process of splitting from the UK will cost a huge amount of money and will benefit no-one in the long run. If it turns into some free thinking utopia, that many on here seem to believe, I will simply head North and join you.

See you soon then 🙂

winston_dog - you are right in that this is a fairly minor detail.

To come back to the OP though, this thread was about BBC (media) bias in reporting. The supermarket price story was a classic example as the news one morning was full of "prices will go up" stories. By the afternoon the supermarkets were specifically saying this wouldn't necessarily be the case. However, no retraction was made public.

Another example today that seems to have been "spun" regards a recent poll on EU voting intentions. The headline is that those intending to vote UKIP registered at 7% - a whole 2% up on the last EU elections. Buried in the article is that those intending to vote SNP have gone up from 29% to 43% - more than Labour and Tory combined. I can't help feeling that would have been reported quite differently if it has been a 14% [i]fall[/i] in projected SNP support 🙂

scotroutes - Which headline is this? Do you have a link?

Regarding this dull thread highjack, supermarkets operate on a large scale models to maintain their profitability, if you reduce the scale of the operation then you reduce profitability, therefore their retail prices increase.

Well at least (RB)Scotland was first on the news tonight! 😉

I agree it is a minor point Winston_dog, so going to the op.
michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/.../the-scottish-independence-podcast-4.
Link is to former BBC Scotland reporter/presenter Derek Batemans podcast gives his views on independence and tells why he left BBC Scotland. Basically he reckons there is no bias no BBC position which reporters are encouraged to adhere to. He does think that cutbacks have left the news operation at Pacific Quay well under staffed, that BBC Scotland is failing to provide content that accurately reflects Scotland, and that management are incompetent, particularly that there is very poor communication within BBC Scotland and very poor p.r.
The podcast is long but imo worth a listen

[quote=winston_dog ]scotroutes - Which headline is this? Do you have a link?

Here you go: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/ukip-push-lib-dems-into-fifth-place-in-scotland-1-3281885

What do you reckon?

Scotroutes, I misread you initially about the supermarket reporting. I thought you were saying I was wrong about what Stan Blackley said, rather than what was said about supermarket pricing.

I did say I did not know whether prices would go up or not. I did not actually give it too much thought before reported and it certainly won't affect the way I vote.

That being the case, am I right in saying that Stan Blackley's private feelings are that he wishes some of our largest employers leave Scotland following a yes vote?

Seems he was naive about the problems misunderstanding 'media reporting'.

I wonder if he was reminded of this prior to receiving the jaggy boot!

winston. Don't be too hasty to pack the warm clothes and de-icer. "Free thinking" I reckon will be one of the first casualties of the tartan revolution.

I hope you learn your doric and scots before coming up. Straight from dear leaders mouth,

"People who don't know what a quine or a loon are should not be commenting on Aberdeen politics"

Also, why would for example business leaders, particularly small struggling businesses wish to voice opinions contradictory to the yes camp when it's members display such insightful views on the web?

scotroutes - Member

Another example today that seems to have been "spun" regards a recent poll on EU voting intentions. The headline is that those intending to vote UKIP registered at 7% - a whole 2% up on the last EU elections.

To be fair, that story was largely spun around the death of the Liberal Democrats, which is probably a more interesting story than "SNP continue to kick everyone's ass". At the current rate of decline they'll fall below the Greens soon which is pretty remarkable, and sad.

And it was fun to see UKIP depict this as reflecting "general dissastisfaction in the main parties" against that backdrop. Obviously a 50% increase isn't [i]quite[/i] enough to indicate satisfaction.

What I found really interesting... Well, 2 things. One, UKIP's 2% rise is accompanied by a 2.8% fall in the Tory vote, so it represents a net fall in the right wing vote. The other thing of course is that no bugger seemed to want to mention this- perhaps "Small minority votes for different losers" is less sexy than "Scotland isn't as liberal as you thought!!1!"

Sorry to go back to this, but...

Winston-dog - so far as I can remember, none of the big three supermarkets operate in the Isles anyway. Stuck with the Co-op on Portree for instance - pricey and limited stock. Tescos have been threatening to open a branch there for years (the locals would love one) but have never made good on their promises.

And I see no reason why independence would suddenly require Morrisons to rush up North and build a hypermarket when they've never felt the need to do so before.

The upshot of which is that any talk of "increased costs" is pretty much hogwash.

Interesting development this morning.

Who's driving it forward?

(scots abroad and [i]south of the border[/i] content)

It is impossible to argue that distribution costs are not increased for anything outside of the central belt. The infrastructure North and South of there is limited. (Apart from the M74, which is very good.)

As an example there is a thread running on here about how about how rubbish the A9 is.

[img] [/img]

In an iScotland you will end up with the same argument that a lot of English put against Scotland, in your case the heavily populated Central Belt will be supporting and subsidising the rest of the country.

"People who don't know what a quine or a loon are should not be commenting on Aberdeen politics"

Not surprised at that. That highlights one of the problem I have with Scottish Nationalists, a lot of them come out with pish like that. I would suggest that knowing what a BOP or an AHTS is, has more relevance to Aberdeen politics in the 21st Century?

I was being sarcastic when I said "free thinking" when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, "free thinking" the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

Interesting development this morning.

Jim Delahunt coming out for independence?

So where are all these big supermarket operators outside of the densely populated areas? There are only a few of the big supermarkets operating a few key stores in remote yet profitable locations. The rest are smaller retailers who already charge increased prices to reflect the additional costs.

Why then would prices increase further due to independence? Areas which cost more to do business in due to higher distribution costs already have higher prices. Are you saying these will suddenly increase again? Why are people still spouting misinformation like this?

If under independence the Central Belt would be supporting and subsidising the other parts of the country then it must already be doing so now surely? I have never heard of anyone in the Central Belt complain about subsidising the Highlands in the way the English complain about "subsidising" Scotland in all my life. What utter pish.

I was being sarcastic when I said "free thinking" when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, "free thinking" the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

What a bigoted little man you are.

winston_dog - Member

Not surprised at that. That highlights one of the problem I have with Scottish Nationalists, a lot of them come out with pish like that.

If you view it in context, he was merrilly taking the piss out of Nigel Farage, who had been almost proud in his declaration that he knew nothing about Aberdeen and Scotland. Treat it literally and it's absurd, it's just a way of saying "If you can't be bothered to learn about the area, you'll look stupid when you try to campaign there"

Athgray of course has seized on it as key evidence that we're headed for the totalitarian Kingdom of Salmond. Which tells you how good the case for[i] that[/i] is I reckon

winston_dog - Member
Is it because an independent Scotland is a stupid and expensive idea?

Hardly an excuse for bias. I note a lot of people on this forum are happy with the BBC bias as long as it supports there views. I believe this is called hypocrisy (not particularly aimed at you dog).
The BBC is simply unfit for purpose as is STV and should be closed down. At least then we may get the news according to fact and not according to the middle class politically correct view of the BBC. Any argument that Sky is biased has be backed up and proven. And more importantly shown to have a significant share of the market. Which the BBC clealy has.
For world news (particularly Arab news) I will continue to give al jazeera a look in. At least I know where I stand with them and I suspect they are less bias than the Bigots at the BBC.

.rene59 - Member
So where are all these big supermarket operators outside of the densely populated areas? There are only a few of the big supermarkets operating a few key stores in remote yet profitable locations. The rest are smaller retailers who already charge increased prices to reflect the additional costs.

.rene59 - Member
I was being sarcastic when I said "free thinking" when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, "free thinking" the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?
What a bigoted little man you are.

What a bigoted little man you are.

Really?

I lived and worked in the Central Belt for six years.

There were significant sectarian problems that really left a bad taste in my mouth. There was also much more casual racism than I currently experience in the south of England. (I'm not a "southerner" by the way). It may of just been the people I was working with but "free thinking" they certainly were not.

Ironically one of the best reasons to get rid of Scotland would be to get rid of a big chunk of people who will definitely be voting no.

[img] [/img]

Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can't think for themselves. Well done you.

SD-253 - I would be surprised if any "jock" could stomach your company long enough to buy you a drink.

[i]It is impossible to argue that distribution costs are not increased for anything outside of the central belt. The infrastructure North and South of there is limited. (Apart from the M74, which is very good.)[/i]

I still don't get this, how are costs going to rise? Same companies doing same distribution to same stores....?

.rene59 - Member
Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can't think for themselves. Well done you.

SD-253 - I would be surprised if any "jock" could stomach your company long enough to buy you a drink.

We will ignore "I would never give an English man job"
He could stomach mine and 3 other peoples company until it came to his round? Once he had a few to drink his true colours came out. Bit early for drinking rene59 how many have you had?

I think you guys are talking at cross purposes- it's not that the costs will rise- it's that they may already be higher, it's just that currently that cost is smoothed across the UK. So "The costs are increased" rather than "Costs will increase". Which seems pretty likely, just due to geography, though probably not as big as it initially seems due to uneven distribution of produce and stores etc

@SD-253, last time I met a Scottish person he was a phd fluent in 6 languages. Last time I met an English person he was a surly rude cock. I think these extensive samples might change in a minute though so my opinions on these nations of millions of people will probably also have to change.

Or... Since you've been spitting out that line for ages, and it's incredibly unlikely that you've not met any "jocks" since then, shall we just assume it's bollocks? Yes, let's assume it's bollocks.

Il ne peut être q'un seul
[img] [/img]

Akshewally, thinking about this...Most famous Scotchish people in the world;
Braveheart - Aussie
Highlander - Frenchman
😉

.winston_dog - Member
What a bigoted little man you are.
Really?

I lived and worked in the Central Belt for six years.

There were significant sectarian problems

.rene59 - Member
Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can't think for themselves. Well done you

I was being sarcastic when I said "free thinking" when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, "free thinking" the [u][b]vast majority[/b][/u] are not. Daily Record anyone?

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Highlander - Frenchman

Wait, Christopher Lambert isn't Scottish? But his accent was so flawless! Next you'll be telling me Sean Connery isn't Egyptian.

SD-253 - Member

Independent retailers are all part of cooperative

, after living in the Central Belt, "free thinking" the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

.Northwind - Member

@SD-253, last time I met a Scottish person he was a phd fluent in 6 languages. Last time I met an English person he was a surly rude cock. I think these extensive samples might change in a minute though so my opinions on these nations of millions of people will probably also have to change.

So lately you have met one Scot and one English man? So you don't live in either country? My statement were obviously meant as counter to the views of rene59 - Member
In reference to costs of distribution Supermarkets are required to compete nationally as Scotland will be a separate country these rules MAY NOT have to apply. The RESULT MAY BE that the extra cost of distribution may be passed onto Scottish consumers instead of the English and the central belt of Scotland.