[Closed] BBC bias - Scottish independence content

bencooper - Member
But there's a big risk in staying in the Union as well. Specifically for me, the risk is that the UK (dominated by the English vote) votes to get out of the EU. That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive (and add lots of hassle) and also affect all my exports to Europe.

Lost on that statement why would everything be 20% more expensive? Before you answer remember that EU has trade agreements with a large amount of non EU countries. Including Mexico and Turkey. EU also has free trade agreements with other countries such Norway and Switzerland. If they wanted to be spitefull the most they could charge for exporting to them is an import duty of 5%. How would you end up paying 20% extra?

VAT?

There's all this waffle about economic this and that, how we'll all be rooned, or bathing in million pound notes, who's going to be our friend or not, etc.

It's all a smokescreen.

There is only one issue.

Will Scotland benefit in the long run from being able to determine its own policies?

And the answer to that is simple if you believe in a democratic system - Yes.

And is the BBC biased? - Yes (unfortunately)

Will Scotland benefit in the long run from being able to determine its own policies?

Possibly +1, but look closely and that is not what is on offer. That's the point.

PS I do really hope you vote for independence. My previous rant was truly truly meant, I would be ecstatic if you left the Union.
Definition of ecstatic
1. in a trancelike state of great rapture or delight
2. showing or feeling great enthusiasm: ecstatic applause.
3. a person who has periods of intense trance like joy

❓

Poor iScotland. It will only be as independent as Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain. Woe is us.

There is only one issue.

Will Scotland benefit in the long run from being able to determine its own policies?

And the answer to that is simple..... 😉 hence the current manifesto for devolution !!!

[quote=oldbloke ]Not quite. How about - Will Scotland be able to determine enough of its own policies (within the constraints of the EU and agreements with rUK) to make it appreciably better than devolution?
By having significantly more powers than it currently does or will ever be on offer under devolution?

I can't see why this is so hard to understand. In fact, I can only conclude that someone pretending not to is deliberately trolling and will thus treat them accordingly.

.scotroutes - Member
VAT?

[quote=SD-253 ].scotroutes - Member
VAT? how will extra VAT come into it. No country in the world charges VAT or the equivalent on goods they export. Somebody needs a bit of bog standard financial knowledge.
He said "import" though?

Bencooper - Member
That would immediately make most things I [b]import[/b] about 20% more expensive

Well you are going to have to ignore a lot of trolls in the Scottish government, press, and if polls are correct, population then Scotroutes!! Even dear Margo Macdonald is sounding a bit unsure these days!!

I can't see why this is so hard to understand.

I see it a little bit like when Fred Goodwin bought a bank without doing decent due diligence first.

. scotroutes - Member
oldbloke » Not quite. How about - Will Scotland be able to determine enough of its own policies (within the constraints of the EU and agreements with rUK) to make it appreciably better than devolution?
By having significantly more powers than it currently does or will ever be on offer under devolution?
I can't see why this is so hard to understand. In fact, I can only conclude that someone pretending not to is deliberately trolling and will thus treat them accordingly.

.scotroutes - Member
SD-253 » .scotroutes - Member
VAT? how will extra VAT come into it. No country in the world charges VAT or the equivalent on goods they export. Somebody needs a bit of bog standard financial knowledge.
He said "import" though?
Bencooper - Member
That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive.

.Bencooper - Member
That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive.

[quote=SD-253 ] Have I got you right saying that England will put import duty on EU goods of 20%. Ludicrous and illegal.
Am I going to have to re-quote the whole post to you or do you want to back and re-read it?

bencooper - Member
But there's a big risk in staying in the Union as well. Specifically for me, the risk is that the UK (dominated by the English vote) votes to get out of the EU. That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive (and add lots of hassle) and also affect all my exports to Europe.

Because
You
Would
Have
To
Pay
VAT
On
Them
If
We
Were
Not
In
The
EU
!!

Scotsroutes - I don't think you understand how intra-community VAT triangulation works...

How would it be intra-community if we weren't in the EU?

If you understood how VAT currently worked, then you wouldn't have to ask that question

Lets explain it this way

You
pay
VAT
on
everything
taxable
that
you
buy

The only difference is when you pay it, and how you reclaim it

Some are reasoning that we should be independent as the English are likely to take us out of the EU. I don't think that will happen even under a CMD led government. Cameron does not want to leave the EU, and it may come as a surprise to some, but the EU does not want the UK to leave As far as I am concerned. That being the case I can see concessions to the UK that make staying in more palletable to voters in an in out referendum.
In previous threads some yes supporters have joked about rUK leaving the EU in a "don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" kind of way. If rUK does leave the EU, it will be a significantly weaker union an iScotland wishes to join.

Also, the whole view of Scotland not influencing elections as something to get annoyed about seems a bit daft to me. Of course it doesn't. Yorkshire has a population of 5 million. I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Finally, on immigration, it is a bit saddening to think your own Newcastle born spouse becomes an immigration statistic in iScotland to be touted in future by our dear leader as an example how welcoming Scotland is to those of different nationalities and cultures. Our offspring are a shining example of how Scotland can truly be a multicultural and diverse nation.

I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Pffft, buggers complain about everything else. And they've got massive chips on their shoulders about their "homeland"

Post meant in jest

Largely

Also, the whole view of Scotland not influencing elections as something to get annoyed about seems a bit daft to me. Of course it doesn't. Yorkshire has a population of 5 million. I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Couple of weeks back was at one of the GFs friends. She was complaining vigorously about the London centric news, and during the London centric weather forecast I suggested she change the channel from BBC London.

🙂

Athgray youused a key word at the end there nation. Scots joined the union as a nation. Comparison with regions towns cities are not valid as you're not comparing like with like.
Sd-253 you'll find that yes supporters have discussed many policies on many threads you might remember eu membership or nuclear disarmament. ..ask thm
So sd -253 you are wrong ...

To be clear Athgray I do not mean that Scots /Scotland have a right to detemine every election when they are part of a union with other nations. I am saying that when they have consistently voted differently from other parts of the union they have as a nation the right to say "we have considered this for a while now the union is not working for us and we want out"
For what it's worth I think the peoples of other areas in the UK also have right to quit the union or change the union . How they go about it l think looks much more difficult than it might be for a nation.

I see where you are coming from gordimhor.Luckily I was not around 300 years ago so don't feel the overwhelming pride in being just Scottish. Not particularly proud of the UK either. I feel lucky to have the Highlands close at hand to partake in hobbies I enjoy.

Don't have a strong sense nationhood towards Scotland. More regional I suppose. Frankly I find the whole Saltire waving this is my country show a bit embarrassing.

You talk of never getting the government Scotland voted for. 1997-2010?

It's also worth pointing out that the way most people in England vote is irrelevant too.

With the Westminster system, the whole game is decided by a relatively small number of floating voters in a few marginal constituencies, so the opinions of most people don't matter.

they have as a nation the right to say "we have considered this for a while now the union is not working for us and we want out"

But that isn't the deal you signed, was it?

[i]shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, [b]and forever after[/b], be United into One Kingdom[/i]

97-2010 well Scots and the rest of the UK voted them in....but really New Labour didn't do what it said on the tin. That led to a lot of the current deep disillusionment with all politics imo.New Labour, Libdems, Tories are as Scotroutes said "three cheeks of the same arse" 🙂
edit added in "imo"

No ninfan , but then again 307 years ago I didn't have a vote, I would have been one of the rioters in Edinburgh at the time. 😈

You may well have been a rioter, but penny to a pound of shite that Salmond would have been somewhere with William Paterson making themselves scarce after selling one way tickets to the Isthmuth of Panama 😀

I've got a 1699 book called "A Defence of the Scots Settlement at Darien" - it's basically one long whine to the king about what a dump Darien is and how the English, French and Spanish (and the natives) are picking on them 😉

Going by all I have read about Darien it would have been a good place to send all the politicians who were found guilty of fiddling their expenses.

http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/
Back on topic . Former BBC man Derek Batemans blog

I do not trust one single politician. regardless which country they are from.
I would guarantee you that alex salmond is just out to make a name for himself and to ultimately line his own pockets. just like blair witch, cameron and that other **** whose name escapes me right now (labour leader)

matay - Member
...I would guarantee you that alex salmond is just out to make a name for himself and to ultimately line his own pockets...

And your factual basis for that?

no factual basis what so ever... just over 30 years of witnessing the selfish greed of EVERY politician that has ever held a position of power!
full of promises BEFORE they get there, then lies, backtracks and cover ups from then on.
blair was the peoples champion when he was campaigning, anti tory, labour through and through. shirt sleeves rolled up. common background just like the rest of us!! bullsheet.
cameron did the same and miliband is again pumping out the same crap!
they ALL went to the same schools and ALL have the same values and agenda.
mr salmond is playing on the scottish peoples anger against ENGLISH govern.... but I guarentee you, a large majority of english people have that same anger.
as I said, I do not trust ANY one politician. they are all one and the same.

they ALL went to the same schools and ALL have the same values and agenda.

Alex Salmond went to Linlithgow Academy - not exactly an elite place of learning (sorry, Linlithgow).

Just saying.

matay - Member
...mr salmond is playing on the scottish peoples anger against ENGLISH govern...

I think you have that wrong.

It's not anger, it's a realisation the system is broken.

One thing many Scots dislike intensely is that the highest tier of government is unelected. For democracy's sake it's about time the House of Lords was removed.

The most heavily populated part of the UK is in the SE, so any government of the UK is going to have to be SE centric at the expense of the peripheral parts.

What is appropriate there is not necessarily so for the rest of the country. Regional England suffers many of the same problems as the Scots. as the black hole of London sucks the resources out of the rest of the country.

The difference is, that as a nation that is party to the Union, Scotland can do something about it and leave.

Hopefully our departure may lead to Westminster devolving more government powers to the regions so each can have the appropriate policies for their needs.

I'm convinced the north of England would blossom again if there was a federated system of government that devolved powers to the regions.

What is appropriate there is not necessarily so for the rest of the country. Regional England suffers many of the same problems as the Scots. as the black hole of London sucks the resources out of the rest of the country.

One telling statistic is to look at public transport investment per head of population:

London: £2000 per person per annum
North-East: £2 per person per annum

The Crossrail project alone - a 26-mile train line serving part of London - is costing more than half Scotland's entire yearly budget for everything.