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thanks @clubby and no i dont think it sounds rude at all, its a valid question and im grateful for the help 🙂
but are you at the stage you know the notes on the fretboard? I say this as once you do, the why makes more sense. Instead of saying you are playing E5 or A7, figure out which note this is.
well sort of. i cant go directly to a Db or F# say in a nanosecond, but ive learned 'the dots', so if a guitarist is playing a chord itd only take me a few seconds to work out where the root is. ive learned that the dots on the 4 strings are GAB CDE FGAB and that the following CDE starts on G5 so just G3 thats the anomoly as an A#.
sooooo...... D# chord? straight to A5 and go up a fret. same with flats, just drop down a fret from my 'dotted fret'. so yes i could say A, G, D and E if preferred, i just thought it more accurate to give the exact fret.
Tabs are amazing things, but lack a lot of musical information that makes music sound like it does.
yeah, theyre a starting point for me if i want to learn a song, i probably go straight to songsterr, then match it (or not, theyre a bit hit and miss) against ultimate guitar, then have a go. but id like to start improvising and making my own lines. and id waaaay prefer to remember the available pentatonic patterns/notes available than work out note names of a scale, itd just take too long. patterns it is for me 🙂
so i suppose my question still stands. if im chugging away 'a la sid' on A, id have thought any other pentatonic note would sound ok if i wanted to make it a bit more interesting, yet A# isnt one of those notes. however it still sounds ok to me just dropping the odd one in for a bit of interest. same as an open E or the other E (A7). and i usually do a 3 note walkup to the start of each "we're so pretty" (B, C, C# and onto root D).
another for instance..... ive just 'learnt' 7 seas of rhye. it was too complicated for me, especially john deacons solo, so i simplified it by just using root notes for a section (A# and D i think). and i just cant work out what notes are played in the fade out so i looked at the chord being played by guitarist (D) and just play a bit of a square shape (pentatonic notes, D C G A). it works for me until i get more accomplished and id guess to the unlearned ear its fine.
cheers
EDIT:
are you at the stage you know the notes on the fretboard? I say this as once you do, the why makes more sense.
just to revisit this sentence, i know why theres a pentatonic scale, that those 5 notes are the ones that sound best with the root, but for me i dont think id need to know the names of each note in every scale, thats way beyond me and i dont think would help me. well it would as its all more comprehensive theory, but its enough for me to know 'this is where the chord/root is, and this pattern will give the best complimentary notes'.
I play that long outro playing A except on "pretty vacant" where I play ACAGA at the third fret bending the C slightly.
I play that long outro playing in A except on "prettyvacant" where I play ACAGA at the third fret bending the C slightly.
@Edukator sorry can you just confirm please, youre purely talking about PV here arent you, not the outro on 7SoR.... its the words 'except on PV' thats throwing me a little 🙂
so on PV you mean youre chugging away on A for 'we're pretty' but on the words 'pretty vacant' youre noodling on ACAGA then back to just A again yes?
thanks
As I sing the va**** at the end of the ,phrase I play that little sequence and back to hammering away at A
It's dissonant but works. Jones and Matlock defined the punk sound which included one fret slide-ins (so from dissonance to correct), incomplete bends and some disdonant notes that sound a bit menacing.
Edit: I've just played it again and realised I somtimes play the seqence twice or more
AAAAAAACAGA_AAACAGA_AAACAGA_AÀAAAA
thanks for the confirmation, i'll try that out.
As I sing the va****
i guess you made a spelling mistake 😀
The bend on the C is pretty quick and a pull off.
I don’t have Sky anymore but found you can get Sky Arts on freesat. Watched the Peter Hook, episode and enjoyed it
Admittedly, I found episode 2 a bit shit! It’s not really, well, not at all what the title says it is “Greatest Basslines”… hardly. Should’ve been called “Being a Bassist”.. and some of them aren’t that interesting.
if you dont mind me asking, what pickup did you buy, and i guess youre happy with it? did you need to solder it? i dont have a soldering iron and never soldered in my life but always up for learning a new skill.
If all you need is to be able to solder the occasional small gauge wires, you can get really good little rechargeable ones about the size of a fountain pen. They charge via USB-C, and are perfect for doing things like guitar wiring. You then don’t need to have worry about having a mains socket or an extension lead handy.
All you need is some solder, and then it’s just stripping the insulation off the wire, twisting the bare wire and holding the iron and the solder against the bare wire until the solder melts and flows along the wire, then doing the same with the other connection, and putting the wire and the iron onto the connection.
So uhh I've done an appalling job playing guitar for years. Never had a lesson, not got any actual guitarplaying skill but can coax interesting and pleasant noises out of it in the forms a few chords and forms that do exist in music I can reliably make.
I do listen to a lot of music and follow rhythmic forms and melodies and bassline etc, I can follow a tune with my voice pretty well but use relative tuning to stay in tune.
My main issue with the guitar is short stubby fingers which don't like to bend without affecting each other a lot... So my left hand is very much the weak point as I fluff a lot of holds I want.
My hands are strong, but I feel like a narrower neck with wider string spacing would work for my body. I have barely touched a bass but iirc they're like that and they look like they are. Hell if the northern dipstick can reach everything I must be able to.
This all got me thinking :
Would a bass guitar be a good idea to try?
I do actually want to play an instrument, and if I could get it to do what is in my head or whistling tune I'd be pretty funky.
Should I pick up a €1-200 bass? Would that actually be worth trying? Idk what it looks like id buy one that worked well. I also have a hifi with big (really big) bass and subs, so I guess I can run it through those to hear (does not give any problems listening to solo bass, even loud)
Any ideas or assistance?
Have a look in local classifieds. Loads of people try it once or twice and give up. Plenty cheap ones there. Alternatively cheap new basses aren’t going to need new strings or too much adjustment out of the box and should be ready to play.
Do you have a music shop near you? Getting hands on can be invaluable in finding a bass you are comfortable on. If you like narrower, slender necks then I’d be looking at a jazz bass rather than a Precision (P). Don’t forget front to back depth either. I can get on with any neck width, but much prefer a thinner front to back depth.
Home hifi not going to be great for using with an instrument, even if you can hook it up correctly. Again, tons of cheap practice amps on the second hand market.
Give it a go. You won’t lose too much money if you don’t like it. You will however lose a lot of money if you do like it.
Thank you.
I hope that didn't sound like "guitar is too hard" so much as "I would rather play with more space around my left hand". Let's be real, I'm dexterous and not at all sinister 😉
Get something cheap and then find a local guitar tech to set it up because even ones in shops are all over the place
Don't bother with amp as a beginner, get one of those headphone plug-ins because cheap bass amps are junk
https://www.andertons.co.uk/nux-mp-2-mighty-plug-headphone-amp/
Ok I need an amp for gigs and it needs to be small for portability and storage reasons. I'm going to get a barefaced one10T because it will do the job I need for that size, but what small head to go with it? Are the TC electronic BAM 200 looks ok but would it be too cheap? Or the Warwick gnome?
how much are you budgeting for that @edhornby? id also like something barefaced but theyre out of my reach budgetwise sadly. worth it for a good player i guess, but not much point in a starter noodling away in his lounge having anything that good 🙂
anyways, next question. im learning song no 16 in my arsenal, when september ends. simple enough when i get used to the song, but one section puzzles me thats repeated a few times.
roots, fifths and octaves. but why does it go 9/12 in the middle of the 10/12, 7/9 and 5/7's? why not carry on the root/5th/octave pattern there and do a 9 and 11? as far as i can see that interval isnt anything that should fit melodically/musically.....
i dont think its a mistake in the tab as both songsterr and UG have the same.
Not great at theory but suspect it’s because the guitar chords only change the the bass note in that bit rather than the whole chord changing
ie they go G to G/F# to G/E in that bit rather than G to F# to E
If you try your version going 10- 12 then 9-11, the 11 on the D or G string doesn’t “fit” if you listen as you play
I’ve probably explained that badly!
I’ve probably explained that badly!
haha it might make sense to a guitarist, but no, i dont understand it 🙂
Play it how you suggest and listen and you will hear the 11 on the d string doesn’t fit
Sorry been out so it’s making sense to me but might make even less sense to you…..
you are playing the bass under the guitar chords to the song. The song is in G. The first and third line of each verse is all basically the same chord, a G, just the lowest note in the chord changes from G to F# to E to D as the line progresses, the other notes pf the chord stay the same. Hence the lowest note of the bass line changes but the other notes stay in the g scale. The 11 on the d string (Db) isn’t in the g scale which is why the line stays on the 12 for the first two bits. The 9 and 7 on the d string are B and A respectively which are in the G major scale.
I've had a few glasses of wine, I'll try and process that tomorrow 😁
Thanks
Sorry been out so it’s making sense to me but might make even less sense to you…..
you are playing the bass under the guitar chords to the song. The song is in G. The first and third line of each verse is all basically the same chord, a G, just the lowest note in the chord changes from G to F# to E to D as the line progresses, the other notes pf the chord stay the same. Hence the lowest note of the bass line changes but the other notes stay in the g scale. The 11 on the d string (Db) isn’t in the g scale which is why the line stays on the 12 for the first two bits. The 9 and 7 on the d string are B and A respectively which are in the G major scale.
right, clear head this morning so here we go 🙂
ive just had my fretboard chart out and think i see what you mean, but im not 100% sure, so please bear with me, i'll type as i think below 🙂
ok, you say theyre keeping to all of the notes in the key of G, theres no C# in G major so cant play it.
so for that section i guess we agree on the chords, im expecting the guitarist to be playing a G chord (root G on A10 and 5th is a D), then moving to F# chord (root F# on A9 and 5th i think should be a C# but we'll come to that later), then an E chord (root A7 and 5th is a B), then D chord (root A5 and 5th is an A) then back to C chord. but youre saying that as C# isnt a note in G major then it shouldnt be played as a 5th of the F# chord yes?
which is what im not understanding 100%. bear with me a moment 🙂
so..... nashville numbers. if we're saying that G major is the key, then chord progression here according to a major key is M m m M M m dim, so that gives the chords here of Gmaj, F#dim, Emin and Dmaj.
the contentious chord here is the F#dim. i say it should be C#, you say thats not in the key of G so we need to stick to D.
ive just googled the notes of F#dim and as you rightly say, theres no C# in it, so im now on your wavelength, although it took me typing this out plus a google to get it straight in my head 🙂
however, we're not quite there yet 😀
the 5th of F#dim is a lowered C#, so a C. so why arent they playing F#/C/F# (octave) there instead of F#/D/G (not octave but a 9th)???
apologies for the long and confusing post, as i said at the start, i was just typing as i was thinking/googling.
cheers
Been meaning to ask how you’re getting on with the pink bass @sadexpunk ?
Rules are there to be broken. It took me a while to work out the guitar solo on American Idiot, the solution being not to try to work it out but listen and copy because it sounds great even if it doesn't seem to follow basic rules. Bear in mind things might follow rules that you haven't learned yet. For example when theres a chord change you can hop on the scale of the new chord.
Been meaning to ask how you’re getting on with the pink bass@sadexpunk?
@clubby great thanks, i really like it, (its looks anyway), i do like my pastel colours. its hard to know about the sound as at the moment im playing through a borrowed rumble 15 which wont show its true potential i guess. i intend buying my own amp when christmas is done and dusted, probably a rumble 100. yes its overkill for a noodler in his living room, but i cant just keep borrowing stuff and that seems a decent compromise that i read will still have a good tone when turned down low.
every now and then i plug in the 'frankenbass' affinity PJ to see if i can hear a difference between them, but to my untrained ear on a 15 watt amp i cant, so i tend to stick with the pink ashdown.
i do have a dedicated precision itch though. i read that the PJ is a bit of a compromise even with the P turned up and the J turned down, and for that true P sound you do need a dedicated P bass. im not sure the wider neck would suit me, but..... its an itch and ive been looking on the 'bay for dedicated P's nearby. nearly pulled the trigger on a couple but they wouldnt come down to what i was prepared to pay. plus a rumble 100 may show up any differences in tone and i get to hear that specific precision tone i keep reading about. expensive trial if not 😀
it might sound like ive got GAS but i really havent, itd be one in one out, and if i found i loved a P, id get rid of the affinity.
Rules are there to be broken.
@edukator oh, my username should tell you i have no issue with that, but breaking music rules? really?? 🙂 its hard enough understanding the rules themselves without learning how to break them too 😀
Bear in mind things might follow rules that you haven't learned yet. For example when theres a chord change you can hop on the scale of the new chord.
might have misunderstood that, but i thought thats what you did anyway? so the key tells you what chords youre 'allowed' to play in a progression (notes from that scale), but then when that chord progression has been chosen then i thought each of those chords had its own palette of notes (pentatonic?) which might not include notes that would be in the original key. happy to stand corrected on that though?
thanks
i do have a dedicated precision itch though. i read that the PJ is a bit of a compromise even with the P turned up and the J turned down, and for that true P sound you do need a dedicated P bass. im not sure the wider neck would suit me,
I’m not sure that’s entirely true. If the P pick up is in the same position as a pure P and you can turn the J all the way off, it shouldn’t make a difference. However, there’s nothing wrong with finding out for yourself. As far as the neck is concerned, go for one described as modern. They tend to be 41mm nut width rather than 44mm of a vintage style neck.
I’m also in the camp of there’s nothing wrong with GAS, as long as you’re aware it’s not going to make you a better player. I’ve been playing two years and have had 7 basses, 4 of which I currently own. Yes, I could easily do all my playing on one, but they all have different things I like and feel and sound distinctly different from each other. For me, it’s all part of the enjoyment of the hobby. They are also comparatively cheap compared to bikes. Plus, having started late I need to catch up on a unspent, misspent youth.
I'm a bit of a P guy. I like the simplicity of them, and the look, of course.
I'm not keen on PJs because they seem neither one thing nor the other and the take away from the simplcity that I love about them. Horses for courses, naturally.
As Clubby said, modern Ps have got quite forgiving necks. Look at the difference between the current gen Standards and Vintera Precisions.
Standard P Bass
50s Vintera II
I'm trying to hold GAS at bay. I'd quite like a nice example of the 3 bass models I like, Precision, Stingray and Jazz.
I treated myself to a used MM Stingray this year, and have a nice enough Squier 60s CV P, so I'd quite like a nice Fender Jazz. Nothing extravagant, maybe a decent used American Standard, or even a new Player II. But its my son, an actual musician, who keeps going, "what do you need another bass for?"
Which is ironic, given that he has 3 (recently 4) electric guitars and 2 acoustics.
As far as the neck is concerned, go for one described as modern. They tend to be 41mm nut width rather than 44mm of a vintage style neck.
As Clubby said, modern Ps have got quite forgiving necks. Look at the difference between the current gen Standards and Vintera Precisions.
Standard P Bass
50s Vintera II
thanks, if i get one i'll look out for a 41mm version then.
They are also comparatively cheap compared to bikes.
maybe for most people but ive always been one for making my own cheaper bikes. current two are a mk1 soul and an old singular gryphon, both of which i built up fairly cheaply. dont ride either of them now due to living in the flatlands of lincoln and losing my past motivation to travel for a ride.
i get the feel this hobby will end up costing more than my biking 😀 especially once a new amp, a pedal or two and a P bass have been acquired.
the 5th of F#dim is a lowered C#, so a C. so why arent they playing F#/C/F# (octave) there instead of F#/D/G (not octave but a 9th)???
Rules are there to be broken.
just been playing it again and tried a variety of options of root/fifth/octave for that F#dim chord on the A,D and G strings.
firstly the tabbed A9/D12/A9/G12
then the root/ 'regular' 5th/octave A9/D11/A9/G11
then the root/diminished 5th/octave of the chord as it 'should' be played if green day guitarist is in fact playing an F#dim chord, A9/D10/A9/G11.
i actually think that last one, the 'proper chord' one, sounds better.
id be appreciative if some of you could try that yourselves and report back how you hear it? would you agree with me or have i just got a sh1t ear 😀
ta
You’re slightly over complicating it.
the guitar isn’t playing G - F# - E - D chords
its playing G for that whole section but the G is modified by a changing bass note.
the guitar tab for that same section is this…,
You’re slightly over complicating it.
of course i am, you havent met me yet have you 😀
the guitar isn’t playing G - F# - E - D chords
its playing G for that whole section but the G is modified by a changing bass note.
o-kaaaaay...... sorry, my theory isnt good enough to understand what that means.
i see that the open strings and 3rd fret on your B string stay the same throughout the section so i guess youre saying that throughout that section the only notes played by guitar are E, A, G, F# and D, all notes within the key of G yes?
and if it was a chord progression thered be different guitar notes yes?
and because of that then the bass also needs to play only notes from G major too.
so...... to complicate things again..... 😀 my earlier 'note test'..... green day play 10/12 (G and D), then 9/12 (F# and D)
i considered that i preferred the dropped 5th which was a C
C is also in G major. so thats still fine? obviously its not what GD are playing themselves, but do you think it still sounds ok?
oh and lastly, what does that G5/F# chord thing above the tab mean to a bassist? obviously not a chord change as i thought.
thanks for sticking with me.
Yeah you’re getting it. As far as the “modified chord” thing goes it’s really simple. On guitar, in a normal G chord, the lowest note is a G ( E string 3rd fret)
in a G/F# the lowest note changes to an F# ( e string 2nd fret) and so on.
It’s a guitar technique that comes out of solo acoustic finger playing where the thumb would be picking out a bass line while the other fingers pick a melody. In a band situation you as the bass player are taking on this role.
if you pretend your bass is a guitar for a second, you can mimic the guitar chords in the song by strumming
E3A2 together then E2A2 together then E0A2 then A0D0
does that make sense?
your progression with the C still doesnt sound as good to my ear as the original. While the c is in the G scale it isn’t in the G/ F# chord ( which is F# B D G D G if you strum all 6 strings on the guitar) where as the D12 (D ) is
if you pretend your bass is a guitar for a second, you can mimic the guitar chords in the song by strumming
E3A2 together then E2A2 together then E0A2 then A0D0
does that make sense?
well it makes sense in that itll sound right, but i suppose i still dont understand if its a chord progression (of sorts) or not 🙂
dont go to any more trouble explaining mate, i suppose im just not there with the theory yet, i just have to trust the process.
on a different subject, i thought id settled on a fender rumble 100 (ive borrowed a mates rumble 15 and really ought to return it), but now another bass playing mate has recommended the blackstar unity 120 instead. more versatility and a slightly better sound he says, and doesnt trust the light weight of the rumble.
whats your thoughts? the blackstar is nearly twice the weight and only slightly bigger, but if its still perfectly portable then the weight might not matter? (10kg vs 17kg i believe).
thanks
As always, is there any way to demo either? Sound preference is very subjective and only you can decide which you prefer. Never played a Blackstar, but I’m very happy with my Rumble 40. Can imagine the 100 will have a bit more punch even at lower volume as it has a 12” speaker rather than the 10” in the 40. Blackstar seems to have built in overdrive, chorus and compression but look like only on/off without any adjustment, so a bit limited IMO. At least with the rumble, the overdrive has adjustable drive and level controls. I use these depending on what I’m playing. Lightweight not been an issue for me.
thanks mate, i think im still leaning towards the rumble 100.
sadly no way of trying them out, we dont have a music shop near us these days but i guess with amazon you can always return it if it didnt meet expectations. i dont have a 'good amp' reference point though, so i guess however it sounds i'll just assume thats what it is and be happy with it. which might not be a bad thing 🙂
thanks
I hope you live in a really large detached house with no close neighbours.
I've got a 50w amp can only use it on the lowest volume setting.
I hope you live in a really large detached house with no close neighbours.
haha well its detached but we do have neighbours either side. im prepared to have it turned right down tho and did check that it still sounds ok on minimum settings.
I’ve got a rumble 100. The clips I posted at the top of the page are using it. There’s a load more if you click through to my YouTube channel ( which honestly is mostly for my own entertainment!)
i think it’s a good buy. You can get quite a variety of tones out of it with the tone shaping buttons as well as the eq dials. The drive side is ok - better at lower gain than high gain but I’d probably buy a proper bass drive / fuzz if I wanted a nasty bass tone
its got a headphone out and an aux in for silent playing along to stuff. It sounds good at bedroom volume ( ie low enough that the sound of your unplugged bass is nearly as loud - it’s not a tube amp so doesn’t need to be cranked to a sweet spot ) but it will get loud enough to play with a drummer ( as long as he’s not animal from the muppets!)
if I was regularly jamming with others I’d probably go for something bigger (300w ish) - bear in mind that 50w to 100w is only 3 db extra volume!
but I’d probably buy a proper bass drive / fuzz if I wanted a nasty bass tone
a nasty bass tone sounds just the ticket 😀 which pedal would you recommend?
if I was regularly jamming with others I’d probably go for something bigger (300w ish) -
i wish! ive got a couple of mates with 6 strings that i sometimes meet up with but thats still just a bit of living room noodling away to songs. theres no proper jamming anywhere on the horizon sadly.
i did still look at 'future proofing' and half considered a rumble 500 but at more than double the price and very unlikely to be used to full potential ever, i thought id stick with the 100, which still wouldnt be cranked up high anytime soon.
the 100 is still plenty loud enough
Well pedals are a whole different discussion and to be honest I don’t know a whole load about the bass variety.
that said, I don’t think you can go far wrong with a bass big muff as a starter and you can pick them up second hand for £50 ish
people also say a “rat” is good on bass. There’s a really good rat clone called the. “Black secret” which are £40 or so
At the price point of the Rumble 100 it's the sound I like most. They have an overdrive which is all the "pedal" you'll need inititially. It'll cover your needs unless you want to start competing with a drummer. If you have to carry it anywhere your arms will be pleased with your choice.
This is the 100w rumble overdrive set really low. It’s not bad….
https://youtube.com/shorts/MZ9B8xffq3w?si=pqkVfE1eYmxDPpj4
Nice video, good sound. However.....
You know how artists are sending cease and desist notices to Trump to stop him using their music - if Green Day see your video and catch sight of that trackie bottoms and slippers combination, expect a lawyer's letter
well the Rumble 100 is here so ive had a bit of a play, goes loud doesnt it 😀
ive been reading the bumph on the different dials and trying to work out what each one sounds like as i turn them up/down. i think to my untrained ear theres just too much choice which isnt a bad thing.
the 3 bright/contour/vintage buttons i'll leave for now.
i dont really understand Gain. i thought that was to distort the sound but then again i also thought that was Overdrive and i have both to choose from.
i dont have a clue about bass/low mid/high mid/treble either, or how theyd boost or negate the P, J and tone knobs on my bass. i certainly dont think i need any sort of pedal to muddy the waters even further at this stage.
i'll probably do a chatgpt on what settings would sound best for particular songs. ive got 16 songs i can 'play' at the moment, with a variety of genres, so i guess if i was playing them all the way through on my deezer playlist, id need to keep tweaking the dials, so i ought to make a note of how to set them for each song.
a lot of experimenting ahead, this'll keep me busy for a while.
On valve/tube amps the gain increases the potential across the valves which at some point saturate and start to compress and distort. The gain control on transistor amps imitates that. So saturation caused by increasing the gain.
The output from the instrument is what comes out of the pickups unless they're active, and it's not a lot. An overdrive pedal increases that output so the pre-amp valves get a bigger signal, which they will cope with without distorting only up to a point and then get saturated. So overdrive is saturation caused by the input into the amp being higher than it can cope with. Overdrive pedals also incorporate a circuit to imitate the breakup caused by sturation so you can get distortion at low volume.The overdrive on your transistor amp imitates that sort of saturation which sounds different to gain saturation.
The other type of distortion you'll get with your Rumble is when you turn it up far enough both the transistors and speaker fail to cope and it sounds plain dirty.
When I used a Rumble I didn't get beyond finding the point at which the gain gave a little bit of crunch with the volume as loud as it would go without getting dirty. Trust your ears. I bet you end up with very few combinations of settings, probably just a couple that cover pretty much everything you play: clean and high gain.
The gain dial has a bigger effect if you put the “vintage” switch on. (The switch itself mainly gives you a rounder bassier sound)
the 3 bright/contour/vintage buttons i'll leave for now.
As the owner of a Rumble 40, I’d say these are the easiest to understand and the first ones you should experiment with.
Set the Gain and EQ knobs to 12 o’clock, then try the style knobs to see how they sound. They are like preset EQs for different styles, that can then also be tweaked with the knobs.
For Overdrive, combine Gain and Drive to get a sound you like, then use the Level knob to balance the volume. Ideally you want it to be roughly the same as your clean volume, unless you are looking for an aggressive jump.
Loads of suggested setting for different styles on google.