MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
News this morning that Paris, Madrid, Athens & Mexico City have all agreed to ban diesel vehicles from those cities by 2025. Makes you wonder how backward the UK is in comparison.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794
The UK is backward, it's going further into 1976 every day that passes under its feet.
The diesel issue is long over due, but try convincing the Quash/Ewok/Audi/BMW crowd about the merits and you'll get a blank stare back.
Should be banned sooner imho from the big cities. London already has a much higher congestion charge for older diesels.
Higher road tax for diesels and possibly an additional purchase tax should help steer people back to petrol and hybrid.
As an aside the Paris mayor has made a right dogs breakfast of traffic in the city significantly increasing congestion and polution. She's been closing roads and this has created significant delays and jams all over the city. They have also had measures to allow only odd / even reg number cars on alternate days when pollution has been particularly bad. From January any car over 20 years old will be banned from the city center (equally daft imo)
Maybe this sort of thing should be done at a higher, Europe wide level. Maybe some kind of Europe wide union with the power to make laws for all to follow? Sounds good!, I'm in 😛Should be banned sooner imho from the big cities. London already has a much higher congestion charge for older diesels...
As an aside the Paris mayor has made a right dogs breakfast of traffic in the city
Higher road tax for diesels and possibly an additional purchase tax should help steer people back to petrol and hybrid.
The govt set up this up this scenario with it's bizarre taxing structure. Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.
but try convincing the Quash/Ewok/Audi/BMW crowd about the merits
See above. It's not the average motorists fault. They buy what on the face of it is a clean car.
And then VW step in with blatant lies and dishonesty. Who does the average punter listen to? Which is the cleanest car?
@nick 🙂
How likley do you think an EU measure challenging VW, Renault, Citroen etc would be ? Compare US fines and vehicle repair or repurchase with what European owners have been offered. Vested interest rules.
The govt set up this up this scenario with it's bizarre taxing structure.Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.
I cannot believe they took the testing at face value. I owned my first diesel from 2007-2014 and it was a great car but no eco vehicle.
jambalaya - MemberHigher road tax for diesels....
No.
I bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.
Why should I be penalised?
I can't afford a new vehicle and the value of the current one will drop.
What happens about busses, lorries, taxis and trucks? Genuine question.
Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.
I thought people bought diesel because of the better fuel consumption?
^^ Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it's £550 a year for a car that does 4,000 miles per anum. Now that being said yes I think it should be phased in and perhaps new cars only.
Blame Gordon for that.
But there are an awful lot of Zero rated diesel cars out there now, unlikely to be shuved up the tax band since the whole point of them was to come under the current regulations.
The biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever, likewise trucks.
Ban private vehicles all you like but they're not the route cause of pollution, even BoJoBrexit published a paper on it but it got bashed down by CallMeDick.
I bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.
But it's not. It never has been and it probably never will be. I've always known this, and it's fairly obvious if you look. Who told you this?
It'll inevitably will happen. I'm not sure the UK is backward about it given other countries have only announced such measures recently.
What happens about busses, lorries, taxis and trucks?
Well, according top the earthmuffin on the radio yesterday, they will all be hydrogen powered.
Where they will fill up is a question they dealt with by ignoring it.
wonder how i get my log book changed to SVO 😉
we have hydrogen busses here in aberdeen.
at last chat with my mate the bus mechanic the cost of keeping the hydrogen busses on the road is ~60% more than that of a conventional bus.
Maybe this sort of thing should be done at a higher, Europe wide level. Maybe some kind of Europe wide union with the power to make laws for all to follow? Sounds good!, I'm in 😛
Don't be ridiculous! Give it a few years and someone with great powers of hindsight and a great imagination will come along and criticise them for not being able to predict things and then accuse them of collusion on all sorts of levels and throw spurious facts around in order to sound convincing.
Veg oil burners for everyone.
Unlikely they'll apply them retrospectively but they do have to change, I would like to see a new tax regime based on pollutants applied to all new cars from whatever date. Car manufacture, insurance and financiers are way too powerful in the UK though and the home of the Range Rover isnt ging to be in a rush to kill off its golden goose.
Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it's £550
Wait until next year. If it's emissions are above 255 it'll be £2,000 per year.
Gulp.
There will be a lot of big motored iron being dumped next year. Get out before the rush.
PeterPoddy - Member
Who told you this?
The media, car industry and government.
It was the official line for quite a while.
^^ Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it's £550 a year for a car that does 4,000 miles per anum.[b] Now that being said yes I think it should be phased in and perhaps new cars only.[/b]
😆 Seriously? 😆
Problem lies with manufacturers. I wanted a big estate and as i lease a merc, audi, volvo or bmw is better value due to depreciation. The e class, v90 and a6 dont come in hybrid (yet for volvo but it will be 70k!) or a petrol that isnt bonkers so I had to go diesel. I wanted a petrol or hybrid having loved my lexus for the last 3 years but couldnt get one.
Remember, these changes won’t apply to your current car – only to new cars registered from April 2017.
not quite scotchegg .... if anything it might even increase the value of his big asss motor as people still want them but dont want to pay the increased tax.
look at the era where the tax jumped to 500 quid .... the early models of those cars that still have the old tax regime of 250 odd command a premium.
Anyone like to hazard a guess at the mpg of a petrol T6?
"The media, car industry and government.
It was the official line for quite a while."
The whole of the 90s as i remember it.
i prefer to measure it in MPT convert.... miles per turbo when they stick in a little engine and boost it to hell.... possibly even MPC - miles per conrod.
It's a tricky one. I've always preferred petrol cars and had 14 different ones over the years. However, work mileage has meant my last 3 have been diesel due to mileage. Just moved company and had to order a company car for the first time.
First thoughts were I wanted a petrol plug in hybrid - a Merc C350e estate. But it was just outside the allowance for me on company car scheme as it costs so much - and couldn't be delivered until at least May / June time. Hardly any other hybrids on the scheme. That said - whilst the Merc is under 50 g/km of co2 it makes a mockery of the testing system. It's a 2 litre petrol turbo in a fairly heavy car. I know someone who has one, and when it runs out of electricity it's mid 20's mpg. Not very eco, but very low in company car tax.
Looking outside of hybrids then diesel was the next cheapest company car tax option. I've got a max co2 output of 125g/km. On the current co2 measurement then petrol just doesn't compete for me in a reasonable size family car. Gone for a Jaguar XE diesel in the lower powered version(163bhp). Nox wise I'm assuming this isn't too bad an option - it's got an adblue tank that needs to be refilled circa every 9000 miles.
Given it's not actually my car I'm probably less worried about any new diesel regulation. If I were buying the car myself I think I might have gone for petrol, through fear of new regulation which might devalue my new car.
They'll phase them out over time by a combination of making electric/hybrid cars cheaper, slowly increasing taxes on diesels and banning them from big town and city centres to make them inconvenient to use. What wont happen and can't happen is a resurgence in petrol cars. Diesels rose as a result of efforts to reduce CO2 emissions as the number of cars on the road increased, which they have done, so a return to petrol can't/shouldn't happen. I think the government knows they can't make diesel cars obsolete overnight - too many people invested in them.
We've had years of misleading information about the performance and ecological improvements of vehicles. The government, hoodwinked by the 'benefits' of these 'better' engines (often in diesel guise) then put in place tax regimes to 'support' these myths.
We now realise it was wrong, and once again rush in to start buying the next 'Eco' technology of hybrids and electric, and once again governments will fall over themselves to support this new round of car sales. I bet in a decade we are wondering how we solve the battery pollution issue...
At what point do we sort out the lack of great infrastructure and public transport provision, as well as tackle the issue of folk thinking it's ok to commute 50+ miles each way or drive to the shop 400m away?
I personally am more and more challenged to walk and ride more.
The biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever
Watch this space. I'm talking to bus manufacturers and councils. They will probably be heading electric possibly with on route charging (welcome back trolley bus?).
Trucks are more likely to be hydrogen I understand but I know less about that.
bikebouy - Member
Blame Gordon for that.
I first went diesel in 1995 because it was a far better deal financially - as I recall that was pre-Gordon.
I love petrol cars and can't wait for the tide to change and diesels be phased out.
Might have to get something more modern than my 18mpg petrol stinking Volvo turbo beast though. 🙂
The media, car industry and government.It was the official line for quite a while.
Really? Not to my knowledge. I've always known diesels are dirty. Just follow one.....
I don't believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.
As others have said, it was the official line for years.
@joe interesting
@Captain politically you cannot just wack tax up on all diesels, personally I'd fine VW a huge amount and force them to offer to buy back all the cars as the American have done. Except EU will block that even if we did have the courage to do it.
IMO the big driver ( 😉 ) for the increase in Diesels was fuel economy, the eco thing came second and manufacturers have decieved the public there.
I don't believe you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.
I was certainly aware but was sceptical to say the least when I bought my 2.7TDI
Gone for a Jaguar XE diesel in the lower powered version(163bhp). Nox wise I'm assuming this isn't too bad an option - it's got an adblue tank that needs to be refilled circa every 9000 miles.
Just googled what this adblue thing is. We're using a new Zafira as a courtesy car at the minute and adblue flashes up on the dash now and then. Does it really work?
They are talking about introducing congestion charges for diesels in Southampton. I think just trucks. Going to hurt the port, and tbh probably won't make a dent on pollution given the massive ships that sit there with their engines running all day....
We bought our diesel because we thought it would bde cheaper to run, and therefore greener, as it used less fuel and had cheaper tax. when we were looking for a secondhand focus there really wasn't many petrol options available.
And for road tax being £2k for those with higher pollution I think that is a good idea. Even if it means older big engine cars become museum pieces
But the tax won't be retrospective, so current vehicles unaffected, it's already been mooted.
Really? Not to my knowledge. I've always known diesels are dirty. Just follow one.....
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/22/the-rise-diesel-in-europe-impact-on-health-pollution
I don't believe you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.
[i]Emissions from diesel vehicles have been reported to be significantly more harmful than those from petrol vehicles.[/i]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust#Health_concerns
Not hard to find.....
I'm generally skeptical about any advertising. It's always been the particulate emissions causing cancer etc. I used to be well into cars etc when I was younger, just as diesels were getting popular. At the time (mid 80s) i'm sure diesel prices went up because they were dirtier. There was plenty about it at the time if I recall correctly. To be fair its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with the pollution, it's just what's the most harmful that's the flavour of the month. It used to be CO2 harming the environment, then we learned that it was the particulates causing cancer and other illnesses that were worse, now we've got CO2 as low as possible.
I'm also finding it amusing that someone on STW believes 'The Government' too. Seems convenient to me... 🙂
It's basically the 26/27.5/29 thing. Car manufacturers will tell you anything is better to get you to buy one.
I don't believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.As others have said, it was the official line for years.
That certainly was, and to a certain extent still is, the general public perception. More mpg = 'greener' was the general (and yes, probably short-sighted) view. How dirty diesels were didn't really come into it, though people are becoming much more aware now. Anyone who denies that to be the case is being deliberately obtuse, or in true STW fashion is just being a sanctimonious arse :wink:.
It used to be CO2 harming the environment, then we learned that it was the particulates causing cancer and other illnesses that were worse, now we've got CO2 as low as possible.
See?
You do remember.
Anyone who denies that to be the case is being deliberately obtuse, or in true STW fashion is just being a sanctimonious arse :wink:.
Luckily, no one has denied it, have they?
I remember when the Government began promoting diesel over petrol and scientists were warning that their decision was swopping a short-term problem for a much worse, long-term problem. The predictions have turned out to be true.
Motorists (and manufactures) follow the 'rules' put down by Govt.
If you're old enough you'll remember when most UK cars came with a 1300cc option, and then company car tax bands changed to 1400cc. Manufacturers then stopped making/selling 1.3's and sold 1.4's instead.
Diesels are no different, when I got my last petrol company car in 2006, when most had already gone to diesel. And then in 2008 I moved to an allowance, as tax-wise it'd got 'cheaper' to run my own vs a company car.
When the Govt brought in the c02 rules in 2007 we had a 2006 Freelander TDI auto and it's co2 was 1 above the 'limit' meaning the VED went up to +£400. 2007 Freelanders were 1 co2 below...
They make the rules, we (and the manufacturers) just follow them.
Anyone who denies that to be the case is being deliberately obtuse, or in true STW fashion is just being a sanctimonious arse :wink:.Luckily, no one has denied it, have they?
PeterPoddy - MemberI bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.
But it's not. It never has been and it probably never will be. I've always known this, and it's fairly obvious if you look. Who told you this?
😀 😀 😀
I don't believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.
As others have said, it was the official line for years.
Sorry, this is just being lazy. They were promoted as they were lower c02 and incentives were brought in as it was seen as an easy way to reduce c02. But they were not seen 'greener' unless you just read the marketing. The problem with particles has always been know about but the affects of sweeping this problem under the carpet are now being felt.
You argument on money makes no sense to me. You car will be losing money anyway and if you cannot afford a new one why are you worried about it's loss of money? In a few years time it will be worth a standard trade in amount. Cars should get more expensive to run as they have got cheaper to run compared to public transport over the last 15 years. Your car has a limited life span so a ban in 2025 will not really have a huge affect on your current car anyway.
I am now driving to work because it's far cheaper than getting the train which I used to do. This to me makes no sense at all as a country. The city gets more congested as everyone does the same. I have a train station 5 minutes walk from my house so I don't even have to worry about parking/bus costs.
Particulates from modern direct injection petrols are supposed to be very harmful as well, so my petrol which does 50-60mpg is not as green as I wish it was.
It'll inevitably will happen. I'm not sure the UK is backward about it given other countries have only announced such measures recently.
This.
But auto mnfrs better start making decent petrol vans now so that I can afford a secondhand one by the time the UK gets round to it.
Particulates from modern direct injection petrols are supposed to be very harmful as well
That's probably why particulates are also included as a criteria on the Euro5 and Euro6 emissions regulations for direct injection petrol. So basically all new cars since 2009.
edit: and if petrol really is that bad, then they'll have to use mechanical means to filter those particulates just like they have no choice with for diesel engines.
traildog - MemberI don't believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.
As others have said, it was the official line for years.Sorry, this is just being lazy. They were promoted as they were lower c02 and incentives were brought in as it was seen as an easy way to reduce c02. But they were not seen 'greener' unless you just read the marketing. The problem with particles has always been know about but the affects of sweeping this problem under the carpet are now being felt.
Lazy or not, the general public perception was that diesels were the green (stupid meaningless word, admittedly) option.
People are driven more by personal economy than ecological concerns and I can't blame them for thinking diesels were "greener", despite the warnings about particulates being made for many years now.
I think a lot of buyers take a "well it must be safe if I'm allowed to buy it" approach.
And as I hinted above, us van drivers don't have much choice.
chakaping - Member
...But auto mnfrs better start making decent petrol vans now so that I can afford a secondhand one by the time the UK gets round to it.
we've got an electric van at work, a Nissan something or other.
everyone who drives it seems to like it, and the range for nipping around town all day hasn't been an issue so far.
the lease costs are roughly the same as the fuel costs would be...
Angeldust, no one has denied that we are now more aware, rightly so, of particulates.
But for a long time, diesel was sold as a greener alternative.
And next there are the magnitite particles from petrol engines...
we've got an electric van at work,
I admit I haven't researched them much as they're way out of my budget and I don't do leasing, but I'd be a bit concerned about heading up to NW Scotland or driving across Europe.
I assume they're more suitable for local delivery duties ATM.
You could more immediately get started by banning all Euro 4 vehicles from city centres. Those are far more polluting than Euro 5 and also old enough that it shouldn't affect owners too badly.
You could even run a scrappage scheme to encourage older polluters off the roads.
Manufacturers need to be encouraged to sell cars with better petrol engines. My car cannot be bought with a petrol engine in the UK. The only option on my wife's people carrier is a 1.4 petrol stressed to the max, so we went for the 2.0 diesel. If there had been a decent 2.0 petrol on offer, we'd have gone for that over the diesel.
People are driven more by personal economy than ecological concern
This. Which is why I'm currently driving rather than getting the train and having sleepness nights upset about it after I've stayed up to happily count my extra money.
Public transport needs to be cheaper.
Quite a few UK city centres are moving to charge for petrol and diesel vehicles entering cities, certainly Leeds is. It will not just be diesels that are hit.
Manufacturers need to be encouraged to sell cars with better petrol engines. My car cannot be bought with a petrol engine in the UK. The only option on my wife's people carrier is a 1.4 petrol stressed to the max, so we went for the 2.0 diesel. If there had been a decent 2.0 petrol on offer, we'd have gone for that over the diesel.
Careful though, there are a number of options out there with zero emissions now, one being my BMW 330e which goes like sh!t off a shovel, and does an amazing 20mpg when you drive it fast, yet the government say its very very eco friendly. It is exempt from any London charge, and would be exempt from other city centre charges
I bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.
But it's not. It never has been and it probably never will be.
For goodness sake, people.
Green? What does 'green' mean, specifically? Green means green, I suppose?
Diesels DO emit less CO2, that's for sure. But whether or not it's greener than petrol depends on what your criteria for 'green' is, doens't it?
London already has a Low Emissions Zone.. remember back in 2009-10 when all my Mates who owned T4 Vans ditched them because of the Daily Charge (something like £200) was placed upon them. What the Govt failed to do at the time was include Trucks and Lorries in that initiative, clearly back handers and MP's at the time were once again rife.
Idiots are idiots.
Burning any fossil fuel for transportation is by definition Not Green.
Burning any fossil fuel for transportation is by definition Not Green.
And filling a car with batteries is so much cleaner?
You could more immediately get started by banning all Euro 4 vehicles from city centres. Those are far more polluting than Euro 5 and also old enough that it shouldn't affect owners too badly.
That's the way Germany does it. For those cities (and a few conurbation areas) in the scheme, everything pre-Euro3 are banned.
Those are far more polluting than Euro 5 and also old enough that it shouldn't affect owners too badly.
I think there will be a massive uproar if or when they change the rule to only allow Euro4 or newer, unless there is a(nother) scrappage scheme, or a long phase-in period. My car would be affected for sure.
Anyway - more constructively - does anyone know with any degree of confidence how low the NOx and particulate emissions are on new cars with SCR?
Maybe this sort of thing should be done at a higher, Europe wide level. Maybe some kind of Europe wide union with the power to make laws for all to follow? Sounds good!, I'm in
Funny how the diesel pollution issue happened with vehicles complying with EU wide emission regs while the fightback against them is happening at a city level. Maybe there is something for local democracy and sovereignty?
Car manufacturers don't give a chuff except to move new product and hide the fact there's massive over-production in the European car market and that it's only been kept alive by cheap finance and lease plans whereas owners are 'encouraged' to replace vehicles every 2-3 years, the manufacturers buy them back and create inflated residuals in the used-car market. Politicians are at their behest as it sustains employment in their constituencies e.g Nissan's post-Brexit deal.
Will be my last diesal.....bought the last 5 due to the mileage I do/did ....all vw but the last one a 2.0 TDI has just been dire and troublesome
Where we live not owning a car would mean cycling everywhere .... all the bus routes are being stopped, the train journey to get to my work base would take 2hr 30 minutes one way compared to 40 minutes in a car,..,.. so infrastructure needs to be looked at
Not sure about the 1970s we are heading back to the 1870s
@dove not to mention 20% VAT too
It's time we had some properly funded independent research testing cars on the road when new, 5 and 10 years old. Petrol and Diesel across a few different models. Should make this compulsory and at manufacturers expense for all cars which have sold some threshold amount, say 100,000 vehicles ?
Idiots are idiots.Burning any fossil fuel for transportation is by definition Not Green.
Obvious is obvious. There are shades of green though. Expert opinion seems to be that for local air pollution petrol is better.
Note the comment on the BMW 330e - same kind of thing as the Merc 350e (except no estate available). In my mind with these cars they should have used a more economical petrol engine in combination with the electric motor. Whilst over 200bhp is nice, for people wanting better economy even using say a 1.6 turbo would have been a better option.
I was also tempted with a Lexus 300h as that's a petrol hybrid, but they plagued it with a cvt box.
We need viable alternatives to diesel before killing them off.
Just to add when I don't need the car for work I try to cycle to the office (in the middle of Bristol). Public transport as an alternative isn't a great option. Bristol buses being more expensive than in any other city I've got public transport in. Trains aren't any better either - peak train to London from Bristol is now over £200 return. Versus off peak of around £70. Outrageous.
The biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever, likewise trucks.
Low emissions zone, hybrid buses, hybrid taxis. All being done right now.
I'm also told that a Euro 6 diesel bus is actually cleaner than a Euro 5 diesel car. Factor in the number of passengers and it's a no brainer.
People are driven more by personal economy than ecological concerns and I can't blame them for thinking diesels were "greener", despite the warnings about particulates being made for many years now.
The economy point should be driven by the ecological concerns though. If diesel is more polluting per mile, then it should cost more to travel a mile in a typical diesel than in a typical petrol car. Likewise, road tax, which as any fule know is based on emissions, should be higher for diesels. You can't make it cheaper to travel a mile by diesel, and make a 2.0 diesel cheaper than a 2.0 petrol to tax and then act surprised that people choose the diesel.
I say that as a diesel owner. I wouldn't buy one now, but I bought it six years ago based at least in part on (emissions) tax and fuel economy, I will fully admit I didn't search out research papers on the effects of fine particulates on health. But I don't do that when I buy anything else.
Outside of a couple of cities (or maybe just London?) in the UK, what choice do I have but private car? Public transport is almost universally useless or non-existent and there is no cycle infrastructure. I use my bike where I can but the constant 'cyclecraft' needed to deal with the UK's hostile roads and arsehole drivers is dispiriting and I completely understand why most people don't even consider riding a bike instead of driving everywhere. Fix that, then by all means sort out the diesel issue, but without an alternative what are people expected to do?
If only there were some kind of transport that emitted little or no harmless gases, kept people healthy, and put a grin on their faces*. If this mode of transport were small and light enough to be carried on public transport for longer distances then so much the better. Obviously if this item were prone to planned obsolescence things wouldn't be quite so rosy.
* obviously I'm not talking about roadies here.
FunkyDunc - Member
Burning any fossil fuel for transportation is by definition Not Green.
And filling a car with batteries is so much cleaner?
Certainly not, but most power stations also burn fossil fuels don't they, but you know that so why pick up on that single point..
My statement reads, for clarity: Burning any fossil fuel for transportation is by definition Not Green.
HTHs
I think there's no doubt that emissions are a problem, particularly from roads in urban areas.
The problem isn't simply down to those naughty diesel car makers though, if tests were adequate (they're not), emissions would be lower. If you truly want air in cities to be a particular quality, don't ban cars based on fuel type, restrict them based on the emission levels - it may be that this is an effective ban on certain types (or all types) of car, but that will encourage people to develop cars that are adequately clean based on the most effective technology.
There are also issues with idling, traffic calming causing heavy footed driving, traffic light phasing often being suboptimal to allow smooth driving and so forth. And, of course, a massive deficit in good infrastructure to allow safe, fast and convenient travel by bike within cities (I challenge anyone to find a cycle path scheme that doesn't take longer to navigate than just sticking to the main roads - which will be likely to be better maintained and gritted in winter etc.)
So in response to the OP, we're massively backwards, particularly at the moment with recent changes to vehicle excise duty (which wasn't a significant cost but was effective in modifying buying behaviour) and fuel duty. But this it isn't simply the case that banning diesel cars would solve the problem (buses etc would still be polluting in cities - and with their age and constant stopping and starting, they contribute significantly)
If only there were some kind of transport that emitted little or no harmless gases, kept people healthy, and put a grin on their faces*.
Ahem, this is stw, not a cycling forum.
bikebouy - MemberThe biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever
For buses- Per vehicle, perhaps. Per person, no. And lots has already been done about reduction.
For taxis, lots is already being done in London- from 2018 onwards it'll be impossible to licence a new taxi that can't do zero emissions driving, and private hires will have to be euro 6. And then they all have to have zero emissions capability by 202-something.
But don't let that stop you 😉
I think there's no doubt that emissions are a problem, particularly from roads in urban areas.
The problem isn't simply down to those naughty diesel car makers though, if tests were adequate (they're not), emissions would be lower. If you truly want air in cities to be a particular quality, don't ban cars based on fuel type, restrict them based on the emission levels - it may be that this is an effective ban on certain types (or all types) of car, but that will encourage people to develop cars that are adequately clean based on the most effective technology.
There are also issues with idling, traffic calming causing heavy footed driving, traffic light phasing often being suboptimal to allow smooth driving and so forth. And, of course, a massive deficit in good infrastructure to allow safe, fast and convenient travel by bike within cities (I challenge anyone to find a cycle path scheme that doesn't take longer to navigate than just sticking to the main roads - which will be likely to be better maintained and gritted in winter etc.)
So in response to the OP, we're massively backwards, particularly at the moment with recent changes to vehicle excise duty (which wasn't a significant cost but was effective in modifying buying behaviour) and fuel duty. But this it isn't simply the case that banning diesel cars would solve the problem (buses etc would still be polluting in cities - and with their age and constant stopping and starting, they contribute significantly. And petrol cars might be cleaner but they don't emit flowers and clear running streams, do they?)
chakaping - Member
"we've got an electric van at work"I admit I haven't researched them much as they're way out of my budget and I don't do leasing, but I'd be a bit concerned about heading up to NW Scotland or driving across Europe.
I assume they're more suitable for local delivery duties ATM.
as part of our lease, we get the option of requesting (for free) a diesel van if we think range is an issue.
Autonomous electric delivery vans - that'll really change how things work.
For taxis, lots is already being done in London- from 2018 onwards it'll be impossible to licence a new taxi that can't do zero emissions driving, and private hires will have to be euro 6. And then they all have to have zero emissions capability by 202-something.
And we all know how good the euro emissions tests are for representing real driving conditions. Meanwhile these cars will be producing zero emissions 10% of the time.
Bring it on:
[img] 
:large[/img]
I'm all right, Jack !! 😆
And we all know how good the euro emissions tests are for representing real driving conditions. Meanwhile these cars will be producing zero emissions 10% of the time.
Sure, more could be done, but it's a massive step forward from what we have now. Have you seen the emissions data for a London taxi?!
The key metric to vehicle efficiency and one almost never discussed is weight, regardless of power supply if you control the weight of vehicles you will improve effiency and reduce toxic emmisions.
Obviously those who get hard over electric closing air vents and cars the size of houses will object but there is no reason for such excess and lots of reason to reign it in.
The key metric to vehicle efficiency and one almost never discussed is weight, regardless of power supply if you control the weight of vehicles you will improve effiency and reduce toxic emmisions.
Almost never discussed?
The key metric is emissions - that's the bottom line. Weight is one of the factors, which is why car manufacturers have been reducing weight. I read that Mazda re-routed the wiring in one of their cars and saved something like 3kg of wire. Saves money for them, reduces the car's weight, win/win.