[Closed] Backpacking tents

[url= http://www.ellis-brigham.com/thenorthface/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/204398||@cTents@bThe%20North%20Face|0|user|1,0,0,1|18| ]TNF Tadpole 23[/url]

Highly recommended - easy to pitch, light, roomy enough for 2 and lots of storage space (massive bell-end...). Also rock solid when it's pegged out.

Hi Stu. I would agree that the tadpole is extremely stable for a tent of that weight (we used to have a voyager which is similar) but we always struggle to cook in that style of tent.

TN Voyager. Bomb proof. Had it 10 years and trekked all over the world. Heavier than yours, but for multi days out on the hill, it's worth the extra comfort and more space.
Tim

I have a Solar 2 (the same as the solar 2.2 but with just the one door instead of 2).

I've used it quite a few times on the KIMM / OMM mountain marathon and I can not fault it. Light. easy to put up, large enough for 2 large people and able to withstand outrageously bad weather with ease.

I'd buy it again without a shadow of a doubt.

And its made in Derbyshire.

My 15 year old Macpac Minaret has been faultless - taken all sorts of awful (and good) weather. Silly amount of use (first year = 100 days under canvas...)

TerraNova LaserLarge here. Bought it as a reaction to my current solo tent which is a wee bit on the small side. Huge amounts of space for the weight - LaserLarge 3 might be worth considering.

dropoff - sorry to be abrupt, but if you have ever seen a tent go up due to some idiot cooking inside it you would understand.

I saw one go up in flames at the Kimm in 2006 - the folk inside survived but stayed in hospital for around a year.

[abuse removed - Mod]

I have a wild country trisar. 20 yrs old and used a lot. very robust but a tad heavy. The ones they make under that name are not quite the same as ours and are a lot cheaper than they were.

Smee - huh? how else do you cook in foul weather - you cook in the porchway of the tent. I have always done this. You are offensive and an idiot yourself

I won't be quite as abrupt as Smee, but he does have a point. Not cooking inside the tent is about as basic a rule of camping as it's possible to get. Just don't. Ever.

Rubbish. Utter tripe.

TJ - Pot - Kettle - Black.

Cooking in incliment weather is done in the lee of the tent.

Only an idiot would light a stove inside a tent.

As well as the risk of setting the tent on fire - isn't there a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning? Think some mountaineers have died this way.

I would have though the porch is ok though as its ventilated - I have done this before with no problem.

I have a Wild Country Trisar from about 15 years ago too - seems very solid but as you say a little heavy.

I am an idiot then.

on a good few occasions.

So are most mountaineers then matt. Its like saying a few MTBers have injured themselves at Glentress so no one should ride there.

IIRC Matt is a highly qualified outdoor education instructor

Macpac Minaret: Spacious, comfy and bombproof! Usually use this for any kind of base-camp. I wouldn't carry it if I was backpacking on my own as it doesn't pack down too small - fine for 2 people though if you split the gear.

Terra Nova Laser Competition - Light, light and more light! I love this tent and use it when I'm out on my own. It's got a perfect size porch for all my kit, handles the elements pretty well, packs down into nothing and weights nothing 🙂

TJ - explain your analogy.

Just because he is qualified to a high level doesn't mean that he is an expert in how tents go up in flames. Dont think that is in any of the ML, WML, MIA or MIC course materials

In bad weather, it is safer (IMO) to have a nice warm meal / brew before heading to bed or out for a day, and have to cook in a porch/tent entrance; than to try and light a stove outside in a howling gale/rain/ice/snow/etc, fail, get wet, cold and not bother with the energy/heat/meal/brew/encouragement you would get from the meal.

I regularly cooked in tent entrances in bad weather - including on an ML assessment, where no-one else had a proper brew at bed, or a proper hot/big breakfast. Next day it was easy to spot who had eaten/cooked (all of us, including assessor in the porch/tent entrance). It was also easy to see who hadn't eaten - they were the reason the assessment was cut short, and they failed/deferred.

Smee - Member
Dont think that is in any of the ML, WML, MIA or MIC course materials

Actually, I have seen 3 tent fires.

You also need to check your ML syllabus - camp craft is a skill trained and assessed.

I have been camping in most areas of the planet in all weathers for around 18 years now and have never failed to get a stove to light.

If your ML assessor is having to resort to doing it then he shouldn't be assessing folk at any level.

The only way your tent can go up in flames if is there is a major failure of the stove or you do something very stupid. How on earth do you think high altitude mountaineers, polar explorers and the like manage to cook?

Lighting the stove is the most dangerous part. I lie in the tent and light the stove just outside the doorway with the door open. The stove is then pulled into the doorway / porch are with the zips still open. fumes go out of the open door, the flame is stable out of the wind, the stuff cooks ewasily because its sheltered. Its perfectly safe.

I am talking of course about real mountaineering kit and real mountaineers - not weekend wannabees with /Argos kit.

Honestly - I have heard some stupid things on this forum but this one is one of the most idiotic ever.

I have camped in conditions where a stove would not work (except perhaps a trangia) out of the tent at all. Try to find the lee of the tent in a force 8 gale.

Just because some people are not competent or their kit is faulty does not mean a competent person with quality kit cannot do something.

You done your winter mountain leader?

I can willywave more than you too - only 35 yrs experience of backpacking summer and winter from the Highlands of Scotland to the Andes

Eric Langmuir: "Mountaincraft and Leadership"

[i]"Experience in using stoves is essential before going off on expedition when they may have to be lit and used within tents and shelter"[/i]

That's the from the ML Bible.

[i]The only way your tent can go up in flames if is there is a major failure of the stove or you do something very stupid. How on earth do you think high altitude mountaineers, polar explorers and the like manage to cook?[/i]

So you can predict when a stove will fail can you? That is very clever indeed. What are wednesday nights lottery numbers? You can also guarantee that your frozen fumbling hands will not knock the stove over? Good skills. You also know that your stove fuel is 100% pure and will never flare? Where do I buy some of that?

[i]Lighting the stove is the most dangerous part. I lie in the tent and light the stove just outside the doorway with the door open. The stove is then pulled into the doorway / porch are with the zips still open. fumes go out of the open door, the flame is stable out of the wind, the stuff cooks ewasily because its sheltered. Its perfectly safe.[/i]

So you light a stove in strong wind knowing that it will flare. What happens if the wind direction changes? What happens if a gust flattens the tent?

[i]I am talking of course about real mountaineering kit and real mountaineers - not weekend wannabees with /Argos kit.[/i]

I have had a 12 guy lined, internal guyed, Trango 3.1 flatten in a gust - doesn't matter how good your kit is - it will still go up in flames.

[i]Honestly - I have heard some stupid things on this forum but this one is one of the most idiotic ever.[/i]

Do you not read the drivel that you post?

[i]I have camped in conditions where a stove would not work (except perhaps a trangia) out of the tent at all. Try to find the lee of the tent in a force 8 gale.[/i]
Stoves always work - if you know how to work them. Crap kit/user incompetence perhaps?

[i]Just because some people are not competent or their kit is faulty does not mean a competent person with quality kit cannot do something.[/i]

Every bit of kit fails sometime or another and everyone makes mistakes.

[i]You done your winter mountain leader?[/i]

Yes.

Have you?

Druidh - couldn't care less what that book says. Lighting and using stoves inside a tent is stupid.

smee - I think this is the rest of the chip from your shoulder

*hands over some wood*

*leaves thread*

Smee - Member

Druidh - couldn't care less what that book says. Lighting and using stoves inside a tent is stupid.

Ha ha ha! Get a grip of yourself.

oh - you already have 😯

So highlighting a safety issue and defending that position is having a chip on your shoulder....

Oh well - bring on the chips.

*joins Matt*

Any more of the ML manual you want to re-write? I'm sure they're just waiting to hear from you.

Give up before you make yourself more of a laughing stock than you already have.

[b][Enough arguing, can we get back to the question raised by the OP or a lot of the posts on here will be removed] - Mod[/b]

Druidh - In order for you to come to the conclusion that i'm making a laughing stock of myself you must think that lighting and using stoves in a tent is 100% safe. Care to explain how, in that case, Matt has seen three tent fires and I have seen another?

Smee - read the advice contained in Druidhs post.

On the tent front I would go for a Golite Shangri-La 3. Great tent handles all kinds of weather. http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product348.asp

ps - I have open fires in my tents but they are lavvu's so kind of designed for it!

pps - only ever camped in this country 🙁

db

The requirement for sheltered cooking very much drives [i]my[/i] choice of tent design. I much prefer one with a longitudinal porch. This usually means sufficient space for some storage, an exit path and a small, safe cooking area. Those with a small porch at one end can result in having to cook in a very confined space, and there's no exit past any accident. I was always taught to leave an open pen-knife by the "rear" of the tent to allow for a makeshift "emergency exit".

So - A Solar over a Tadpole.

Any more of the ML manual you want to re-write? I'm sure they're just waiting to hear from you.

Give up before you make yourself more of a laughing stock than you already have.

[Enough arguing, can we get back to the question raised by the OP or a lot of the posts on here will be removed] - Mod

I could go thru it line by line and rebut it very easily. However you have your [i]opinion[/i] and I have mine. You are not going to change your mind. I shall continue to follow the sensible advice as written by Eric Langmuir: "Mountaincraft and Leadership"

I think others who read this thread have enough information to make their own mind up.

I solo everywhere, so being safe is paramount to a successful trip.
If conditions are so poor so as not to be able to cook in either the porch or better still, safely outside, then there's always tomorrow's lunch of chocolate etc that can be eaten in the tent and move meal times about as best you can.
My £0.01 worth. And no, I've only done the Summer certificate some 25+ years ago.
Tim

I still use a Phoenix Phreak (one for the older campers amongst us!), well cared for and still going strong after more years than I can remember. Fortunately never gone up in flames despite cooking in the porch numerous times. Common sense is the main point. I can understand the point smee is making that it can be dangerous but with experience, the right kit and common sense it doesn't have to be. Like druidh, I too keep an open penknife in the tent when I'm in it.

Sorry to the OP, but have no experience of what to reccommend of todays available tents.

Backpackinglight have been running a series of tests on the carbon monoxide levels produced by various makes and types of stove. Worth a read:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stoves_tents_carbon_monoxide_index.html

Precís please?

Smee,

you're not going to argue with everyone all weekend on the Glen Clova trip, are you?

Are you?

I must be another unsafe/incompetent ML holder as well - I regularly cook inside the tent porch, as did my ML trainer and assessor.

Judgement/risk management is what we're talking about - just about everything we do carries a theoretical risk, we use our judgement and we put measures in place to minimise these risks. Matt's argument about the benefits of a decent meal outweighing the small risk of a stove flaring/exploding is a pretty sound one IMO.

Stuartie_c - i'm a well mannered easy going person - the weekend will be fine.

It is the rest of them that you need to worry about. 😉

Back to tents.... ive have a voyerger superlight (2yrs) great tent and less than 2kg more of a three season tent though cant comment on reliabity yet

I'd say there's a difference between cooking in the tent porch and cooking in the tent, which was what the original posting implied. Personally I'd be reluctant to do either, regardless of what Eric Langmuir or any ML course says. I know plenty of folk do, so I may be in the wrong, but I've no intention of changing. Don't think there's any need for calling folks "idiots" or anything like that, from either side of the debate. Like many things, it comes down to personal choice.

Oh my god, so not only have you got a stove lit in the door way, you then have an OPEN KNIFE waiting for you to lean on and cut your fingers off?

Think of the dangers!!!!

😉

I cook in the tent porch when there's just me. If there's more of you then you get distracted, someone could knock something over, but on my own I'm sat there facing the door watching the stove and doing nothing else. If it goes tits up I can get out quick.

Wow, whats been going on here then :(. I popped out for a meal and all hell lets loose. Thanks guys for your advice about your tents. Oh and what did that chap say about me ?

I just said that It is a wee bit silly to light a stove and cook in a tent.

Oh well thats alright then 😉

I saw one go up in flames at the Kimm in 2006

Smee - I am assuming that you were competing in the KIMM in 2006? What cooker did you use outside of your tent on the saturday night which was able to handle the howling gale that was blowing?

I took my life in my hands and cooked inside my tent, as I have always done, in the warm and dry, in my warm kit.

Anyway backpacking tents, as said above Mac Pac Mineret is a great tent which combines being robust, spacious and pretty light, great for a two person backpacking trip. However if going off on your own (which I love) lighter options are available.. and yes I know I am taking a risk by going off on me own, but I accept the risk in the same way I accept the risk of making my coffee when lay in my tent. I'm a reckless mother****er!!!

FWIW I camped opposite Sir Ranulph Fiennes at KIMM 2002 (he was running with a mate of mine), and they, like us were cooking in the porch of their tent. I've always done that - you just have to take care. How dangerous it is does also of course depend on the type of stove - I suspect we were both using hex blocks which don't have the same tendency to flare up.

Not sure how useful my tent advice would be - currently have a Polaris Shelter for use in MMs/Polaris, but that's a silly minimalist single skin thing and no longer available anyway. Used to have a Saunders Jetpacker+ (lost it at some point) which I liked a lot - that or the Spacepacker are still decent tents and good value. I think if I was buying a more normal tent now though I'd go for some variety of TN Laser.

Spacepackers are fantastic tents (I wish I hadn't sold mine). Roomy enough for two, and two big porches so you can have gear in one and space for cooking in the other.

Thanks for the spacepacker lead, the "plus" version is neat, light and has more room in the inner. How stable do we think it is with one pole.

Very stable tents. Very robust too. For best effectiveness, pitch it so that the pole is parallel to the wind.

To reduce pegging, I fitted some shock-cord loops to the pegging point on the inners, then just hooked them over the pegs for the outer. As long as they're long enough, you'll still have enough separation.

Beamers - same stove I always use - MSR whisperlite. If it gets windy use a windshield - doh.

Thanks for the tip about the windshield. I think I'll cook in the warmth of my tent though thanks.

Druidh, good tip thanks, Can anyone point me in the direction of any stockists of the spacepacker plus mk1 as google doesn't want to be my friend on this 🙁 or does Robert Saunders not use any other stockists ?

Spa cycles sell them.

Why would my tent catch on fire? or is it more a suffocation thing?

A tent could obviously catch fire if, saythe stove flared up for some reason, if the stove was accidentally knocked over or if a loose tent flap was blown into the flame. Modern tent materials are quite flammable! The suffocation issue is also present, though not as much of a problem in a well-ventilatd porch.

I had a bbq in a tent once.

Don't like the spacepacker myself - I had one a while back and if you are over 6ft you tend to sleep with a face full of inner tent fabric (you are inline with the pole).

My suggestion - Lightwave. They do an excellent range of tents which are light, spacious and damn robust. Got a T2 XT myself which gives a massive porch for storeage and cooking (if that is your bag) - you can even get mountain bikes in there, yet it weighs and packs smaller than my old Vaude MkIII by about 1/3. The non-XT version is smaller and lighter again.

They also do a semi-geodesic version for folk that way inclined, and the sister company Crux do a full on geodesic that weighs bolloxall.

Oh aye - Saunders only sell direct. If you want to see one then they are often displaying at Mountain Marathons and the like.

My 2p's worth for the original post

I used a MSR hubber hubber 2 for 9 mounths round OZ last year.

best tent i've used in 15 years(for my conditions )

Ok, following on from the advice on here we've narrowed it down to two - the spacepacker plus mk1 and the MSR hubba hubba hp. Just got to find the best prices now. Thanks for your assistance.

Stability and lack of flaring tendency are the reasons I use my trangia with meths still, I have always cooked in the porch of my tent, though I'd never advise new campers to do so. But then I wouldnt expect new campers to be out in a gale, and anything less just requires a raincoat and getting chilly. I have seen a fire with an old tent and sleeping bag (young, evenings drinking round an open camp fire while mate was in a sleeping bag). He was quite lucky in that he managed to escape quickly but the bag self-extinguished with only a 6" burn hole and the tent only melted the whole panel and stopped at the seams. I think fabric tents (old cotton type) might actually be worse as they tend to go up like a bonfire!