[Closed] Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

most people will never get near the limits of their cars (and it's probably not a good idea to go too close to them)

In modern cars, that's certainly true. If you're driving on the road in a manner that's exceeded the limits of ABS, ESP, WTF and so on, your problem isn't knowing the cars limits.

My first car was of 1977 vintage. Second 1985. Knowing the limits of those vehicles was important because there was a very real chance that you could exceed them without trying particularly hard. I taught myself how to handle skids on a rainy Toys 'R' Us car park late one night; at the time I was tooling about, but in hindsight it's served me well in terms of maintaining control and not panicking when things do go wrong.

Thinking about it, I'd go as far as to say that now, with a modern car, I've got so complacent (and so out of practice) that 40 year old me would probably make a fist out of a loss-of-control situation that 25 year old me wouldn't have blinked at. Maybe as well as IAM, I should look at booking a skidpan session.

I too enjoy 'brisk' driving, but it's way way within the limits of the car and to be honest now I have a Passat it's just too wide for me to feel comfortable on country roads. I like the road to flow, I don't like to push anything. It's all about relaxed progress.

When the road straightens out I stay at 60. There's just no need to go any faster, and the fun's gone without the corners.

Anyway - never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention...

Thing is, and I'm just guessing, anyone who goes and gets advanced training was probably at the less likely end of causing an accident in the first place.

i know a few people who've done the IAM thing, every one of then has done it to help/massage their insurance after picking up a few blemishes on their license...

(the course did seem to calm then down a bit as a side effect)

Fair comment ahwiles. As I said, I was only thinking aloud really.

molgrips - Member

Anyway - never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention

With the right education (I believe) they can.
Take away the need for people to think for themselves and they will, however, stop thinking for themselves.
That's ok if you can think for them, but unfortunately nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool, so I'd rather we strived towards the former.

Like so many things in life, education is the bottom line!

. But if you're going to be driving fast, in bad weather conditions, or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit - to recognise when you're close to it so you can slow down before it's too late.

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

No chance of driving near your kids I'm afraid - I try and avoid driving through council estates if possible 😉

Careful now.

edlong - Member

How about, you don't drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

You exceed it, then don't do that again.

(-:

Yep. 🙂

Trouble is driving is 10% skill 90% attitude and its a generation thing coming from parents and grandparents.

"They have never driven before so they have no bad habits" absolute classic, sorry love but if you drive like a clown, your kid will as well no matter what they are taught when learning to drive.

I've done the IAM and found it really good but one thing I was told that stuck was Advanced Drivers have less accidents but when they do have one they do it proper........ Normally involves excess speed.

Yeah I loved doing the course, and I scared my mate after when I showed him how I'd been taught to drive by them, legally but by reading the road, it felt sooo much faster and smoother.

They don't condone speeding and I actually got pushed out of the way by someone a while ago with a IAM badge in his windscreen whilst I was overtaking in lane 3 he was doing 90+ and came bombing up behind so when I moved back into lane 2 i recognised him as one of the observers from the local IAM.

I happened to " bump " into the chairman of the local IAM when he was washing his car outside his house by taking a planned diversion on the bike and informed him of what had happened and he wasn't happy.......

Cougar - ...I taught myself how to handle skids on a rainy Toys 'R' Us car park late one night

I did exactly this with my first (and only) rear wheel drive car about five years back. It was a 3L Cossie-engined Granada and it scared the Hell out of me, especially as it was huge, heavy and hard to stop.

One other thing worth mentioning is that at the age of (almost) 40, I'm still learning how to drive safely and still do stoopid things.

Last month, going South, just before Kinross, with slushy snow all over the road and more coming down all the time, I lost control in a scary way.

I'd been on cruise control set at 44, which felt safe, and was still overtaking most other drivers. I have Winter tyres all round. I slowed behind an Audi which was doing about 30 and when he pulled back in, I stupidly pressed the CC button to get back up to speed. Very bad idea. The engine tried to make up the difference immediately and I lost the front wheels, then the back ones and fishtailed over both lanes for perhaps five of six seconds. Managed to get it back and was surprisingly unshaken but if there had been more traffic around it could have been nasty.

I now know not to use CC at all in wet / slippy conditions, after a wee bit of research.

Point being, there's always something new to learn and no matter how good we think we are, our brains still occasionally switch off. Well mine does.

Properly tail-happy car that, I'll bet. I had a Scorpio for a while which I think is the same basic car in all but shell. The back would step out for gits and shiggles, as my one and only foray into RWD it took a bit of getting used to.

No chance of driving near your kids I'm afraid - I try and avoid driving through council estates if possible

I'm sure that you realise that comment says nothing about me, but speaks volumes about you.

Cougar - Moderator
Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?
You exceed it, then don't do that again.

(-:

Really? I thought it was written on signs beside the road...

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?

If you're driving sensibly, the limit on any modern car might as well be in a different galaxy. You don't need to worry about it unless you're racing. If you're driving anywhere near the limit of your car's capabilities on a public road then you're a danger to yourself and everyone else. Go to a track if you want to do this.

Really? I thought it was written on signs beside the road...

Ah, but the driving gods would have these removed and replaced with "You Da Man. Go For It. (But only if you've had further training.)"

TooTall - Member
I drop well below the limit for the first half then go over the limit for the rest

So, on average, despite your erratic and pointless behaviour, your time taken to cover the distance is the same as if you had obeyed the limit.

Nice one.

One change of speed is hardly erratiic and it's not pointless, sometimes you get folks try to keep up, without having put in the slow bit, o you can trick them into getting tagged.

[quote=Rebel12]But if you're going to be [b]driving fast, in bad weather conditions[/b], or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit

Here's an idea - [b]slow down to a safe speed for the road conditions[/b] - just a thought?

(Or don't they teach you that on your "advanced driving course" ?)

Here's an idea - slow down to a safe speed for the road conditions - just a thought?

There's no point. These people have convinced themselves that cars are a plaything and the public roads are their race track (they pay taxes don't you know!), and they've constructed an entire rationale based on warped logic to justify their actions. Personally I'd have more respect for them if they just came out and admitted that they don't give a sh*t for anyone else and that risking death and injury to others is a price worth paying for their 'fun'. Trouble is they won't admit that cos they still see themselves as 'responsible' road users and they crave acceptance by everyone else, hence the ridiculous justifications.

Personally I'd have more respect for them if they just came out and admitted that they don't give a sh*t for anyone else and that risking death and injury to others is a price worth paying for their 'fun'. Trouble is they won't admit that cos they still see themselves as 'responsible' road users and they crave acceptance by everyone else, hence the ridiculous justifications

Personally I'd have more respect for your opinion if you'd actually looked into taking some advanced driving lessons and tried to improve your road skills. Or are you one of these people who believe that the minimum standard is fine. I've passed my test, I never drive fast so by default I must be a safe driver. Not taking extra training pretty much sums you up a someone who couldn't care less about their standard of driving in my book.

If you have done some advanced training then I'm happy to take this back. Otherwise maybe for your own and all of our sakes - perhaps you ought to get some, or at least try some before trying to brand us as reckless hoons. I thought I was a good driver until I did a fast road course. That made me realise how much I could actually improve and how much I still had to learn. Heaven forbid you might find that you actually start to enjoy driving.

rebel12 - Member
Personally I'd have more respect for your opinion if you'd actually looked into taking some advanced driving lessons and tried to improve your road skills

Oh give over.

nobody has suggested that drivers who take extra training are loons.

(the people i know who've done IAM are now relatively calm and cautious)

most of the posters [u]are[/u] suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

which is a reasonable point. If sticking to the speed limit is boring, tough - build a bridge and get over it.

you [u]might[/u] be well skilled and safer than most, but driving quickly reinforces the public perception that speeding/driving like a loon is ok.

most of the posters are suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

Would you suggest that an advanced driver doing 90mph on a quiet motorway with good visibility, good weather a well maintained car that's capable of 150mph + is driving like a loon?

most of the posters are suggesting that people who talk about things like 'appropriate safe speeding' are loons.

Ah, so I'm a loon for doing 57 on a 50 limit DC?

no, i'd say he's breaking the speed limit. and that it's the thin end of a nasty wedge.

define: 'quiet'

when does 'quiet' become 'busy'?

i'd go on to suggest/guess that he wouldn't have passed the IAM test driving like that.

aracer - Member

Ah, so I'm a loon for doing 57 on a 50 limit DC?

loon is a strong word, i now regret paraphrasing it.

the sheffield parkway is a 50 limit DC, it's a nasty bit of road, with many short entry lanes, people driving over the limit cause a few hairy moments.

(sometimes, people trying to join get desperate and force their way out, if there's someone in the 'outside' lane doing 60, there can be nowhere for the 'inside' laners to go, so it's sharp braking all round)

it'll be 50 for a reason.

no, i'd say he's breaking the speed limit. and that it's the thin end of a nasty wedge.

Have you ever broken the speed limit Ahwiles?

of course i have, but i don't try and defend it as 'safe and appropriate'.

i'm much slower now than i used to be. Am i less dangerous? - of course it's hard to say but it's got to help surely?

If you're driving sensibly, the limit on any modern car might as well be in a different galaxy. You don't need to worry about it unless you're racing.

which is a reasonable point. If sticking to the speed limit is boring, tough - build a bridge and get over it.

Aye.

The problem with speed is that it's relative, and addictive. If you drive at 80mph on country roads, then when you end up at 55mph you feel very frustrated. But it's all in your mind. You really do not need to be 'pushing it' everywhere you go.

If you speed all the time then it'll become habit, and 80mph will become the norm instead of 60. Doesn't sound like much but you're carrying around over 75% more kinetic energy to have to deal with. Why? If there's a crash, whoever's fault it is, you're going to be in 75% more trouble, and for what? It's just blind habit, isn't it?

Just train yourself to chill out, enjoy the flow when it gets windy, enjoy the view when it's not, and enjoy the music when it's busy. You don't need speed to enjoy a drive.

It is good to understand the limits of your vehicle, just so you can avoid getting too close to them.

It's a point with some merit - but on a dry or wet road, I have never got any car to skid, even my MkII Polo, despite trying really quite hard on a couple of occasions (when I was a lot younger). So now I know that the limit is not close to anything I may choose to do, in terms of cornering. If it's icy or snowy, then it's different, and I do test out my cars in suitable car parks etc when I get the chance. I also test out brakes on empty roads.

the dual sheffield parkway is a 50 limit DC, it's a nasty bit of road, with short entry lanes, people driving over the limit cause a few hairy moments.

The 50 limit I'm referring to is perfectly safe at 70 (which is what the limit on it used to be). Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

ahwiles - Member

of course i have, but i don't try and defend it as 'safe and appropriate'.

I'm also not defending braking the limit. It's just there are places and situations where it is perfectly safe to do so.

aracer - Member

Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

i'm not claiming that there is such a thing, it's not my assessment to make.

we cannot let people decide their own speed limits.

that's anarchy.

rebel12 - Member

I'm also not defending braking the limit.

...

It's just there are places and situations where it is perfectly safe to do so.

see? - you are, aren't you?

v8ninety - Member
It is good to understand the limits of your vehicle, just so you can avoid getting too close to them.

How will knowing the limits of your vehicle help in your own example of wet diesel-strewn roundabout? Unless you have diesel super sense as well...

aracer - Member

The 50 limit I'm referring to is perfectly safe at 70 (which is what the limit on it used to be). Does that help with your assessment of "appropriate safe speeding"?

[img] [/img]

it'll be 50 for a reason.

Any suggestions, given we've established it's just as safe as the bit a few miles away which is 70 limit (I'd actually argue that bit is less safe)?

we cannot let people decide their own speed limits.

that's anarchy.

So all the people doing 50 in a 60 limit are anarchists? Have you never broken a speed limit, or are you also an anarchist? How about the twisty bit, is choosing the correct speed for that all by myself without the aid of speed limits also anarchy?

it's a limit, not a target.

Have you never broken a speed limit

of course i have (really try not to now though), i'm simply not attempting to defend it as 'safe'.

Yeah, but it seems choosing an appropriate speed by using your brain rather than blindly assuming the speed limits tell you the safe speed makes you an anarchist.

i'm simply not attempting to defend it as 'safe'.

Oh - I thought it was about anarchy, not safety. Are you telling me 57mph wasn't safe?

How about you ask the council [i]why[/i] they changed the speed limit from 70 to 50?

Maybe under the Freedom of Information Act (or whatever its called)?

There are many places where speed limits are in place to calm traffic, as opposed to "a dangerous road". The M4 going into London is an example of this.

How about you ask the council why they changed the speed limit from 70 to 50?

😆 - you're seriously expecting them to give a rational explanation?

Ok, it might not be the council, but whoever changes the speed limits... 🙄

aracer - Member

Are you telling me 57mph wasn't safe?

is it really that hard sticking to the limit?

(clue: it isn't)

question: how much time are you saving by driving at 57 instead of 50orless?

anyway, to try and respond to your question fairly:

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. you don't have to convince me, i'm not a policeman/judge. carry on about your buisness as you see fit.