[Closed] At the current rate of deterioration in the global weather systems patterns!

[quote=kaesae ]Druidh, wouldn't the ice that is above the water level add to our current situation No - ice is less dense than water.

I'm not getting the link between water ice and vulcanism.

wouldn't the ice that is above the water level add to our current situation

Eureka!

kaesae - Member
Do we know for certain if our sun effects the weather on this planet?

Holy f&%*ing s&^t, sorry, it's and old post... but seriously

Holy f&%*ing s&^t again, wo... I need a cuppa tea

I'm not getting the link between water ice and vulcanism.

[img] [/img]

and the more ice that melds the more volcanoes will become active or more active in terms of the ones that are already active

Polar ice melting is an indicator of the warming process, this is happening quicker than the most pessimistic forecasts of last year, weather systems are affected immediately, then the follow on of crops, etc, never mind flooding, the whole fragile system that first world has taken for granted is seemingly about to crash, what is the response,--drill for more oil and gas in the arctic !!!!!

A lot of good arguments, especially liked the ice cubes in a cup to explain how mountains of ice, well actually hundreds of billions of tons of ice melting isn't having any effect, I feel truly relieved.

I think the problem you will find from a separatist view point is that you see everything as being separate, when in fact everything that exists on this planet is part of a symbiotic relationship or eco system.

When you have cold at the poles or ice caps and heat in the middle of the two you have the ability to cycle large amount of energy in the form of weather, however when you lose the icecaps you lose that ability for the planet to store and control energy flow.

We went through an ice age now we are entering a period of heating up, if the planet can cool down to that degree, can it not heat up as well?

thermohaline circulation.

dump that much fresh water into the ocean and the heat exchange process will alter dramatically. if you dont think the oceans ability to circulate heat will affect us in the uk i suggest you look at other places situated at the same latitude as us.

(sorry if this has been said, i dont have time to read the whole thread)

especially liked the ice cubes in a cup to explain how mountains of ice, well actually hundreds of billions of tons of ice melting isn't having any effect, I feel truly relieved.

🙄 It's a nice simple visual demonstration of the physics to explain why melting sea ice doesn't cause the sea level to rise.

I'm not saying it [i]"isn't having any effect"[/i], obviously it does (e.g. salinity levels, currents, sea temperature, reduced solar reflection), but the melting of floating sea ice doesn't cause water levels to rise, only land-based ice does that.

We went through an ice age now we are entering a period of heating up, if the planet can cool down to that degree, can it not heat up as well?

Hmmm... novel idea... let's call it [i]"global warming"[/i]....

my Street flooded today.

Doomed!

Is the cellar OK?

* awaits flood sale *

mountains of ice, well actually hundreds of billions of tons of ice melting isn't having any effect, I feel truly relieved.

If the sea ice melts, the land ice probably would too, so we'd still be in trouble.

I think jonah tonto has hit the nail on the head for one part of this debate, which part I am not sure 😀

The part that says that if the Atlantic conveyor slows down due to the amount of fresh water entering the Arctic ocean from rivers if all the ice melts then the UK will have even more dismal weather than at present. They were trying to measure the flow with the electrical potential caused by the water flowing over telephone lines or something like that. I wonder how they got on and if it really is slowing down.

you will find from a separatist view point is that you see everything as being separate, when in fact everything that exists on this planet is part of a symbiotic relationship or eco system.

Perhaps you could explain why/how melting polar caps affect volcanoes?
I think folk have realised that many things are interrelated - why not Google Gaia I have a feeling you will like it { i dont fwiw]

i'm the kind of interesting guy that likes a good graph - especially those that get updated on a daily basis, i love the anticipation of waiting for another update.

i know they're using satellites and that, and global climate is ready to go all 'day after tomorrow' all over the place, but... this can't be right, can it?

[img] [/img]

that's bad, right?

All sounds interesting to me.

As for my own experiences, I got caught in a torrential downpour yesterday and watched 2" of rain form on the roads within about 5 mins.

A few days of that kind of weather would cause widespread flooding.

As far as I'm concerned massive storms and floods are a very real potential threat and I have and will continue to put measures into place to increase my chances of dealing with them if and when they do occur.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Torrential-rain-causes-flash-flooding/story-16789230-detail/story.html

Yes but as land ice melts the compression of the earths crust would diminish so in certain areas the sea level would drop for a period of time.

that's bad, right?

Mmmm.. that's quite a scary graph!

A few days of that kind of weather would cause widespread flooding.

We've had two big tropical-style thunderstorms with very heavy torrential rain and very widespread flooding in Newcastle this year.

Quite impressive just how quickly a bit of rain completely paralyses a city.
Within an hour we had roads flooded, bridges/tunnels shut, traffic at standstill, trains stopped, drains exploding, walls and roofs collapsing and people being swept off their feet.

Rain like that over a few days would be devastating to an area. 😕

as land ice melts the compression of the earths crust would diminish so in certain areas the sea level would drop for a period of time.

Surely that would only be a very local effect around the land areas that no longer had several billion tons of ice pushing down on them?

as land ice melts the compression of the earths crust would diminish so in certain areas the sea level would drop for a period of time.

Its called "isostatic adjustment" and is quite prevalent in the northern half of the UK. Sea level remains the same but the portion of the crust that was covered with ice rebounds upwards when the weight of the ice is removed.

Surely that would only be a very local effect around the land areas that no longer had several billion tons of ice pushing down on them?

Yep and there would also be a limited effect as in the crust would decompress and then eventually the sea would rise as the crust got to its 'nominal' position.

Plus I just wanted to ad another thing into the mix to make the thread go on a bit longer.

They had photos of Arctic ocean ice coverage over the last few years on French TV news last night. The retreat is even more graphic than the graph. 40% less is a figure I remember form the report but I can't remember over how long. Average thickness of sea ice down to 2m from 3m.

A lot of good arguments, especially liked the ice cubes in a cup to explain how mountains of ice, well actually hundreds of billions of tons of ice melting isn't having any effect, I feel truly relieved.

That's sarcasm right ?

I think he meant just in terms of sea level rising tbh not in general

that's bad, right?

Especially if you are a Polar Bear

Don't worry, it's not as if there is a [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/aug/29/antarctica-methane ]Vast reservoir of methane locked beneath Antarctic ice sheet[/url]...

Oh. 😯

Good point GrahamS, what exactly is locked up in the ice and under the ice?

Not only do we have to worry about gasses and other threats, but what kind of viral and bacterial microbes could be preserved within the ice?

If I read that correctly - Sunbathing in Antarctica here we come. ZING

Good point GrahamS, what exactly is locked up in the ice and under the ice?

That looks like quite a few of the locals where I live, except they have less teeth.

That graph ...

Does that show that 2012 there's been less ice in the summer than ever before, but the 2nd worst year was 2007? So in between the ice in 2008 to 2011 wasn't shrinking as much. And also ice in the winter has been normal in 2009 to 2012?

What does that mean?

Yes kasae that is the big threat of melting polar caps and escaping methane. Its million year old frozen bugs springing back into life to kill us

That, and the risk that a delinquent penguin might be smoking nearby when the methane is released.

[img] [/img]

.

(yes I know, that's the Arctic, not the Antarctic..)

What does that mean?

[img] [/img]

Junkyard, I think being aware of all the potential threats is a good idea.

35 million year old bugs, 35 million years of development 😯 in a contained and very harsh environment, do these micro organisms have any similarities to the bugs we have today like influensa, with a lot of micro organisms you have this amazing ability to learn from each other and mutate.

Has anyone gotten any samples of this stuff in and under the ice and WTF is it?

35 millions years of surviving in those condition, strange how our society dismisses viruses and other shit like that, the black death killed 30% to 60% of europe and we have no cure for ebola, respect for these incredibly powerful little beings, might not be a bad idea!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease

Interesting, not just the gas but also the bugs!

For all we know, the bugs will find the current levels of atmospheric CO2 poisonous and will simply die off. With a bit of luck, their decomposing bodies will process CO2 and clean up the atmosphere too.

Just saying - unfounded optimism isn't any worse than unfounded pessimism...

kaesae - Member

Good point GrahamS, what exactly is locked up in the ice and under the ice?

James Hetfield!

[quote=Northwind ]
James Hetfield!
[img] [/img] ??

Whilst shallow methane might be a headache if you are on a rig and have to drill through it, I can't see the sea ice melting being enough to liberate significant quantities.

The tangents you're going off on are works of art, Kaesae, a delightful parody of mainstream media reaction to anything scientific (if it's intended that way, keep "delightful" and drop "parody" if not).

<reports Druidh>

Perhaps you are correct edukator, we should not throw open our minds to all possibilities and then evaluate and eliminate them, we should do what exactly?

There are micro organisms under that ice that are completely alien to our world, we have no idea what they will do when released? Since the ice continues to melt we do know they will be released.

They may indeed be beneficial to us, however to say they do not pose any kind of threat and dismiss them without even looking into it?

I am curious about these organisms and I can see there being great potential for them to cause change, however I am not so lacking in imagination that I cannot see them being a major potential threat.

35 million year old bugs, 35 million years of development 😯

Erm... I'm sure a lot of common "bugs" around today have had a similar time "in development".

Though I'm not exactly clear how you reckon a virus frozen in ice has been successfully reproducing for 35 million years. Don't virrii need host cells to infect and replicate?

we should do what exactly?

[img] [/img]

They're long since dead though their descendants are still around with pretty much unchanged genetic code doing the same job of breaking down organic matter in reducing environments.

For anyone interested, this weeks new scientist has features on this subject

[quote=loum ]For anyone interested, this weeks new scientist has links to this thread
😛

For anyone interested, this weeks new scientist has features on this subject

With information just as vague as this thread I should imagine.

Good luck you crazy fools! I'm off back to my escape plan!

Good luck you crazy fools! I'm off back to my escape plan!

[img] [/img]

Thanks ernie, I now know what I want for xmas 😉

Junkyard, I think being aware of all the potential threats is a good idea.

35 million year old bugs, 35 million years of development in a contained and very harsh environment, do these micro organisms have any similarities to the bugs we have today like influensa, with a lot of micro organisms you have this amazing ability to learn from each other and mutate.

Has anyone gotten any samples of this stuff in and under the ice and WTF is it?

Perhaps you are correct edukator, we should not throw open our minds to all possibilities and then evaluate and eliminate them, we should do what exactly?

There are micro organisms under that ice that are completely alien to our world,

I am curious about these organisms and I can see there being great potential for them to cause change, however I am not so lacking in imagination that I cannot see them being a major potential threat.

Are you OK junkyard you seem a bit sexually frustrated, a lot of that going about these days. Have you considered some bevvy and massaging your crotch area!

We have had no contact with these micro organisms and have no idea what characteristics they have or what affect they will have on our environment when they are released.

Although several organisms exist that are beneficial to humanity, lately we have been encountering more and more that are hostile towards us ( I wonder why?)

There are also micro organisms that are in fact lethal to us, since we have no idea what these micro organisms are like, we should not assume anything and should look to further investigate and study them, we should also be aware of how potentially dangerous they could be.

Seems to me every idea that is suggested that falls outside of what is excepted as normal is to come under immediate attack? wonder why that is?

Are you OK [s]junkyard[/s][b] kaesae[/b] you seem [s]a bit sexually frustrated[/s] [b]as though you want to have full sex with some 35million year old microbes that live under polar ice[/b]

Here's a curve ball for you lot, if the heating up of the earth is only happening to the earth as a result of wee hoomaans and not as I claim as part of a solar/stellar cycle, can you explain why it is also happening on mars?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

I do not deny that our parasitical attitude is contributing to climate change, but not even the most docile of you can claim we are causing the same melting effect on mars.

While we are discussing shit that does not fit the argument or man made climate change, how do you explain the north magnetic pole moving at the rate it is?

While we are discussing shit that does not fit the argument or man made climate change, how do you explain the fact that I woke up late this morning and didn't have a chance to make sandwiches for lunch so now I have to go to the sandwich shop but I don't have any cash and my card's still in my jersey pocket from last night's ride so now I have to ride all the way home and back on my lunch break and get something to eat and also my colleague over there *points*hasn't made a brew all day and I've made two and also my pen ran out and we've got the wrong colour of post its plus the custard creams in the staff room are from poundstretcher and taste faintly of wee-wee?

We have had no contact with these micro organisms

I don't think any of the scientific teams permanently stationed in the Arctic and Antarctic (who regularly do deep drills through ice for ice core sampling, and who spend a lot of time researching creatures that live in such environments) have been mysteriously wiped out by sentient killer Piacenzian micro-organisms just yet.

lately we have been encountering more and more that are hostile towards us ( I wonder why?)

Go on... why?

Obvious answer: nature is competitive. Selfishness is more common than symbiosis.

Non-obvious answer: Gaia is sending them to attack us to rid herself of us parasites?

Seems to me every idea that is suggested that falls outside of what is excepted as normal is to come under immediate attack? wonder why that is?

Pointing out that your ideas don't have any actual evidence, don't obey laws of physics/chemistry/biology and actually contradict what is measurably happening in reality, is not an [i]"attack"[/i] - it is just the application of critical thought.

if the heating up of the earth is only happening to the earth as a result of wee hoomaans and not as I claim as part of a solar/stellar cycle, can you explain why it is also happening on mars?

All planets will have natural cycles of warming and cooling.
This does not exclude the possibility that we are messing with ours.

Note that article is from 2007, about a single icy region on Mars that suggests some change in surface temperatures. Nothing like what we are seeing here. And as mentioned earlier, we are not seeing a change in the temperature/energy from the sun that would account for the changes here.

Try:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11642-climate-myths-mars-and-pluto-are-warming-too.html
http://grist.org/article/mars-and-pluto-are-warming-too/

While we are discussing shit that does not fit the argument or man made climate change, how do you explain the north magnetic pole moving at the rate it is?

Drifting moving towards a pole flip.
As it has done many times during Earth's history?

Plenty of theories here to start with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

By the way, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_magnetic_field#Magnetic_field ]the Sun's stellar magnetic field flips every 11 years or so[/url].

Seems to me every idea that is suggested that falls outside of what is excepted as normal is to come under immediate attack? wonder why that is?

and have no idea what characteristics they have or what affect they will have on our environment when they are released

Folk have tried repeatedly to explain how poor thee are

Verily. Forsooth. 😉

I don't think any of the scientific teams permanently stationed in the Arctic and Antarctic (who regularly do deep drills through ice for ice core sampling, and who spend a lot of time researching creatures that live in such environments) have been mysteriously wiped out by sentient killer Piacenzian micro-organisms just yet.

I take it you have incontrovertible evidence that they haven't had their brains eaten by 35 million year old virii who then occupy the space turning the former scientists into drooling zombies ready to conquer the world on the instruction of their giant lizard alien overlords? proper proof mind, the sort of thing that would get published in serious sicientific journals, not just some made up nonsense.
[img] [/img]

your ideas are [s]at times illogical, ill conceived, un evidenced, poorly explained and at times frankly gibberish.[/s] hilarious

So they are on our world but they are alien to our world???/

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
(granted the second one says Space Alien, not Ice Alien, but you get my drift).

Also, for evidence of aliens and other things that just aren't right, there's always

kaesae - Member

I disagree with most of that dribble, I have put forward my ideas and allowed you to rubbish them.

That does not mean they are invalid, just that you are looking at them wrong or are incapable of comprehending the genius of my mind.

To claim that our solar system is not affected in anyway by the rest of the milky way and that our position in relation to other astral bodies or groups of astral bodies in the milky way has no effect on our planet is simply retarded.

As for the fact that mars is also heating up in the same way as the earth is, well that's just a coincidence, factor in additional activity from the sun and increased seismic activity (which isn't happening I know).

Add in the magnetic north pole moving, well that's just because the poles are about to flip as they have several times in the past 😯 .

Hahahaha! yes GrahamS that is more likely than not what will happen soon during this cycle or stellar realignment, can you tell me what effects this flipping of the poles or complete reversal of the earths magnetic fields will have on this planet?

All in all you can see exactly why it has taken us 30 years to except that global warming is happening.

Put simply, we ignore the obvious and focus on the abstract, the problem with all the different research provided is that it can and is interpreted in a multitude of ways.

However, here is what remains and can be verified by everyone, we are seeing seismic events of massive scale all close together in terms of occurrence in recent years, as proven by the amount of devastation they are causing.

We are seeing increased volcanic activity that can be verified by the fact that not only has one of the Icelandic volcanoes closed down a large portion of Europe's airports recently, but also other Icelandic volcanoes are active as well as Etna.

We can see the affects of climate change here in this country from the amount of rain that is falling, however you lot are claiming that these events are not linked at all and are in fact as you have proven all independent.

I refuse to believe what you are saying or advocating, these are not independent events, they are all relevant to our current situation.

All joking and winding you lot up aside, we are in a very serious situation here and I doubt if you have the intelligence to realize the fact or maturity to deal with what is coming.

Hope you lot enjoy your weekend!

Add in the magnetic north pole moving, well that's just because the poles are about to flip as they have several times in the past

Are all maps and atlases going to have to be redrawn upside down ? 😐

.

Hope you lot enjoy your weekend!

Easy for you to say that after dropping that bombshell.

Are all maps and atlases going to have to be redrawn upside down ?

the lowest sea ice on record, before the melt season.

terrifying

we are in a very serious situation here and I doubt if you have the intelligence to realize the fact or maturity to deal with what is coming.

[img] [/img]

you are looking at them wrong or are incapable of comprehending the genius of my mind.

Scarily I think you might actually believe that. Hence why you dismiss people challenging you with [i]actual science fact[/i] as "docile" and "retards".

To claim that our solar system is not affected in anyway by the rest of the milky way and that our position in relation to other astral bodies or groups of astral bodies in the milky way has no effect on our planet is simply retarded.

There you go with that word again. (You do realise that is quite insulting to some people yeah?)

Did anyone make that claim? No. I'm quite sure there is [i]some[/i] effect.

Just not [i]"astral energy"[/i] being [i]"channelled through our Sun"[/i] to [i]"heat up the Earth's core"[/i] causing earthquakes and volcanoes.
Because none of that is happening and there is no evidence that it will.

As for the fact that mars is also heating up in the same way as the earth is, well that's just a coincidence

Except it isn't [i]"heating up in the same way"[/i] is it?

can you tell me what effects this flipping of the poles or complete reversal of the earths magnetic fields will have on this planet?

Worldwide collapse of the compass industry I would imagine.

Put simply, we ignore the obvious and focus on the abstract

That sounds more like your approach, not mine. You focus on abstract fanciful ideas to the exclusion of obvious boring stuff like evidence or empirical measurement.

However, here is what remains and can be verified by everyone...

Ahh, verification. I like verification. Makes me feel all scientificy.

[i]"..we are seeing seismic events of massive scale.."[/i] [b]NOPE![/b]

[i]"..increased volcanic activity.."[/i] [b]NOPE![/b]

[i]"..additional activity from the sun.." [/i][b]NOPE![/b]

Earth's core heating up.. [b]NOPE![/b]

[i]"We can see the affects of climate change here in this country from the amount of rain that is falling.."[/i] [b]YEP![/b] (well, "maybe" anyway)

I doubt if you have the intelligence to realize the fact or maturity to deal with what is coming.

And you are a big stinky pants. 😛

next weeks topic

[img] [/img]

It's starting....

Big Earthquake off the Philippines 😯

Meanwhile in kaesae's secret underground lair...

[img] [/img]

Simply trace the course of our solar system through the milky way and then look for any correlations between proximity or distance from other astral bodies in particular the spiral arms and the weather patterns or climate change on this world for a set period.

Shouldn't take any more that 20 hours of research.

Also if I knew something big was coming why the **** would I warn you lot? rub your faces in it before hand yes! No offence but the world would be a much better place without imperialist capitalism or the slave minions that support and make it's Tyranny possible.

Hope you have a good saddle year and enjoy what ever comes your way 😉

correlations between proximity or distance from other astral bodies in particular the spiral arms and the weather patterns or climate change on this world for a set period.

Correlation does not imply causation:

[img] [/img]

Just a quick note to those who insist on using the word 'bugs', despite the fact that the word 'insects' is in common usage and has been for quite some time;

I know who you are.
[img] [/img]

I know where you live (funnily enough, NOT in America).
When the time is right, I shall track you down.
My vengeance will be slow and terrible.

That is all.

Simply trace the course of our solar system through the milky way and then look for any correlations between proximity or distance from other astral bodies in particular the spiral arms and the weather patterns or climate change on this world for a set period.
Shouldn't take any more that 20 hours of research.

Cool, let us know what journal you get published in so we can have a read.

The video you posted earlier suggested that periods where our solar system passed through the spiral arms correlated with periods of cooling on Earth - so if your paper shows that it is actually correlates with periods of warmth then it should prove interesting.

Just a quick note to those who insist on using the word 'bugs', despite the fact that the word 'insects' is in common usage and has been for quite some time;

"[i]Nasty flu insect going round at the moment[/i]"... hmmm... That doesn't sound quite right...

I haven't kept up with this thread, but here's some pretty terrifying reading. Enjoy.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719

What?

You expected me to read the thread and establish context before posting?

Your name's on the list too..... 😀

Here's another correlation for you kaesae. Do you think there's a causal link here too?

[img] [/img]