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38/50. I know I'm not NT, but I didn't expect to be that far along.
49/50 for me.
Although I did go to a special school from 3-5 years, couldn’t hold a pencil the right way around before starting infants school, ive somehow ended up with a foundation degree and have a well paid job.
I was never diagnosed as autistic just assumed by all my teachers and parents through life. I work on trains (not that I’m a spotter) but I can remember the routes and timetables of the trains on my network even though I don’t need to, I’ve not made a conscious effort to learn it.
I’ve got no idea what I’d do if I had a diagnosis, nothing would change 🤷🏻♂️
For some perspective, this is: An Internet forum. For people obsessed by bikes. Just saying. Maybe I have some self-awareness after all 😉
The older I get the more convinced I am that all men are on the spectrum, some are just further along it.
There’s definitely an element of using a diagnosis to explain selfish behaviour and lack of empathy for others and that small element can overshadow people who would really benefit from some help.
I think women get a pretty poor deal around this problem. Here’s an interesting and enlightening R4 programme about camouflaging and other ways women are expected to cope silently:
Wife and I both score highly, but are very different. I plan things, including mental preparations for social stuff, and am reasonably introvert. Wife is spontaneous, avoids commitments, always late, and more egocentric than me.
Through my daughter's diagnosis, I realised I share many and more traits of what was Asperger's. My wife however is, at 50 discoverd that she may have some autistic traits, but is undergoing a ADHD assessment. May be worth looking into too, it's not what most folk think it is.
There’s a saying in Nd circles that if you’ve met one person with autism, well, you’ve met one person with autism...
In this specific case, we are all unique little snowflakes ❄️ (my counsellor told me so... mind you, she also called me a slippery fish... 🤔)
@metalheart or anyone here, I was wondering if you have used either hypnotherapy or meditation to help with you Asperger's? I have done hypno in the past for phobias but nothing towards my ASD.
At the risk of being self indulgent this is where I am at now and the useful things I have learned:
The things you struggle with - learn coping strategies and include your friends and partners and even work colleagues in this. I sometimes go off on a tangent ( and don't understand I am at a tangent) or miss the point of something or misunderstand peoples intentions. Coping strategies are asking for clarification / repeat back until I am sure I have got it right and along with that giving people permission to go " whoa stop - you are off on one again" and that I then have to accept that without question. so my partner and friends will now not just think " TJs being weird again" but will tell me because they now know I will not take offense and will act upon it. My answer to them usually is " Oh am I? I'd better sit down and shut up then"
Another one is anxiety in airports around being late and missing flights which is both unpleasant for me ( and my other half) and has lead us to spend many an unneeded hour sitting around in the airport. Coping strategy is to tell my other half the anxiety is building and then for her to take charge which I then have to trust.
The other aspect is relish the good parts. Detailed planning being mine. I used to think everyone did this and only recently realised its rather beyond what most people do to the point of being obsessive. Example being I hope to go to Aus for a road trip in a couple of years. I have already worked out what car I need, where the dealers are and what equipment I need. Relish the positives and use them. Good bosses will use this aspect of my personality as well if they know its there - so tell them.
Even in the first sentence of this post is a coping mechanism just for here. I am not sure how appropriate this is hence that first sentence!
I do still find it odd that my friends knew I was weird but I had no idea. 🙂
Morning all.
Thank you all for contributing! Definitely helps with perspective.
I’ve done a lot of thinking and can answer a few questions I’ve seen (one which seems to have been deleted too).
1) “perhaps you are just a self centred asshole - a lot of middle aged white men with egos are”. Now deleted. And
2) “why would a diagnosis help you”
I think these are intrinsically linked. Maybe I am an asshole. That means I knowingly make decisions to the detriment of others for my personal gain. Whether this is consciously or subconsciously I could be a bad person. Perhaps I don’t have enough regard for others, or simply hold my own worth in such regard I don’t care who I hurt. This makes me a bad person.
Or...there is an issue with my brain that means I do things which come across as asshole moves but actually we’re with the best intentions and due to ignorance/inability to see the impact from other people’s shoes.
That means a diagnosis is helpful - it would tell me to stop beating myself up for being an asshole because it’s not my fault and it’s a neurological issue. It’s still an issue, don’t get me wrong but it makes it ok to find another way to solve it. If I’m not ASC then I am an asshole and need to work on more traditional things to stop being an asshole. Like listen to people more, think about myself less etc. If I am ASC then listening isn’t going to fix it, so looking for patterns in social cues or doing more research into the subject will help.
I guess I’m saying both outcomes make me seem an asshole but one should be punished and the other should be accepted and worked around without guilt or remorse. So a test would help me personally if I went down that route.
That said, I think I’ve seen enough data now for me to forgive myself and accept I need different solutions so I don’t need a formal test. I’ve forgiven myself so that’s enough.
Next up, how to move forwards. I don’t think that for now I need to tell anyone. I need to understand more about ASC and educate myself and my immediate family. A label is scary for other people. It changes things. Nothing here is changing other than increased acceptance and willingness to work through things differently. So I don’t need a label at least for now, I need to get them all to understand I need to do things in different ways to give them what they need. If I can get them to accept that point and accept that my ASC is different from the next man, and the next, then I’m not like rain man, I’m still me but stop berating me for forgetting to show you I love you with kisses, or forget to do a load of laundry. Instead give me a list of things with times and due dates ans we will all be happier.
So what? Well for now I’m more comfortable with myself, have let go of some guilt and look forwards to sensible conversation about how we do things differently to achieve more successful outcomes. I don’t need a diagnosis and I don’t need a label. I need to educate myself and family about what works better and execute those ideas. Actually, as I type
I’ve realised it probably doesn’t event need a conversation. I’ll just slowly research what works well and implement those things without conversation. Then let the positive outcome speak for themselves and suggest other nee ways to achieve whatever it is that hasn’t been working. Though I guess everyone should
Do that, ASC or not. If something isn’t working try something else instead of repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome. A smart guy with mad hair said that once didn’t he?
Hope this makes sense. Really appreciate your insights everyone. I feel 100 times better today.
Ps I’m not actually an asshole. I’m really nice and try really really really hard. And outwardly I don’t seem that different so I look “normal” to most people. This whole thing is about my own realisation that I’m different but noone else notices so I can’t be that bad.
Cheers
Interesting to read everyone's experiences and views.
Can I ask has anyone found their "symptoms" worsening as they get older?
43/50 on the test btw.
The anxiety in airports thing for me has certainly got worse until recently when the coping strategies have eased it a lot.
Since reading this thread last night, speaking to the missus and taking 4 or 5 tests online It's looking highly likely that i've probably got some fairly heavy autistic traits.
For years I've had depression, which was then diagnosed as general anxiety disorder, which was then diagnosed as OCD, which I've kinda hung on to for the last 12 years. Once I said autism/aspergers to the wife last night and explained the test, she almost left scorch marks in the carpet how fast she agreed. Her best friend has two kids, one with autism and she said she saw a lot of the symptoms in her friends daughter that she sees in me.
I know none of this is a diagnosis or will it make any difference to my Sunday, but as someone who almost requires validation in a diagnosis, i may look into this more and have a word with the doctor at some point.
Two things:
1) The one person who needs to accept who you are is you. You don't appear to have done that and any label, name or diagnosis isn't going to change this, it's not a magic bullet.
People - Aspies and NTs alike - are usually pretty poor at introspection. If there's things you don't like about your behaviour then work on that, but don't be striving to march to someone else's drum. It's exhausting, near-impossible and if you are on the spectrum then that's one of your superpowers that you're suppressing.
2) It sounds to me like you're not the one in the relationship that has the issues. "I'm not telling you, work it out" is the approach of a narcissist and if you're scared that she'll leave you if you get a diagnosis then either you're massively overthinking it / overworrying about it or you're better off rid. A definition won't (directly) make you a different person, you'll still be as equally on the spectrum or not as you were prior, and either she loves that person or she doesn't.
It is always surprising how women an over come the testing (as they seem to be able to, or perhaps have to) develop coping strategies.
The majority - as close to "all" as makes no odds - of research into Asperger's / Autism has been around boys / men. Autism in women can present differently and it's very poorly recognised, let alone understood.
These are the facts around autism…
Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.
57 years old and have been Aspergers driven most my life, officially diagnosed by my wife.... although i have non of the social issues many Aspergers people have.
My Aspergers has been useful over the years, Education, business, family,loyalty and my wife recognises that it has supported our family hugely.
However now the kids have gone, business ticks over, well lets just say my Aspergers comes up short in creating an ongoing relationship with my wife, i am actually not fit for purpose anymore and i get a lot of grief for "not seeing things" being a typical Aspie..
I can not help what i am and i know there are a lot of blogs written by women with Aspergers partners and how miserable it is, at times i feel its like telling a blind person to just "look" i simply dont see things.
As i have got older my limited coping strategies have all but disappeared partially due to not needing to bother.
And for the record i dont understand the fuss around Christmas birthdays, anniversarys - typical Aspergers.
I do think that men with Aspergers are vilified and if i had dyslexia i wouldn't be getting bollocked because i can't spell.
Again,
A failing of seeing things or being 'fit for purpose' is not your fault. It's who you are. If that's not acceptable to your partner then the deficit is theirs. Getting grief for this is abuse, it's no more appropriate than ragging on a one-legged man for limping. Stop apologising, you're old and ugly enough to grab it with both hands.
I am so badly done with people trying to "change" other people. Encouraging someone away from a destructive heroin addiction is one thing, telling them their personality is wrong is quite another.
You can't help what you are. We can't help what we are. But ****, be proud of it rather than ashamed. It's taken a lot of time and a lot of work to get to where I am but if I had a do-over I wouldn't change it for the world.
Own it. It's awesome. And Normies are weird.
Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.
Excellent point, well made. Diagnosis out with white males is poor as this is where the resource is, like most things, mainly targeted.
Neurotribes (the Steve Silberman book) identifies the ‘autism epidemic ‘ in the Uk as a reaction to Thatcherism and a method of getting kids help that they needed, and boys always first in the pecking order...
But, calling it a disorder kind of partially destroys the rest of your argument. Ah, you’re ill so you need treatment... I’ve a nephew that has definite ‘impairment’ (non-verbal, needs constant supervision, destructive, and will be off in a flash given half a chance). You can see the intelligence behind his eyes, he definitely understands. But that is the more ‘extreme’ end of the spectrum. Advancement of one end can have ramifications on the other... 😔
Sorry, I’m rambling.
This makes me laugh though... the institute for the study of the neurologically typical
http://erikengdahl.se/autism/isnt/
I also want the ‘I’m not just weird, I’m autistic’ badges as a t-shirt... 🤪🤣
I can not help what i am and i know there are a lot of blogs written by women with Aspergers partners and how miserable it is, at times i feel its like telling a blind person to just “look” i simply dont see things.
this, very much
"Wasn't it Descartes who said; I am what I am?"
"No, it was Popeye the Sailor Man!"
Personally.
Spent a long time in my 20s trying to fit in (which was a predictable failure). The only good thing to come of that was genuinely realising who I was and eventually learning to be happy with it.
edit, not the only thing I guess because by then I also had picked up a bunch of coping strategies for dealing with stuff
knowing about ASD would have helped speed up the process of developing those
If there’s things you don’t like about your behaviour then work on that
Yep, and it helps to have partner/friend/parent/anyone who can be honest with you and tell you how you are behaving so you can then modify behaviour to better fit in with the norms of society (assuming you want to)
For example, I can now even do small talk as over the years I have forced myself into it and it isn't too bad now (although wife still laughs at some of my efforts) and it just makes social encounters a lot easier than how I was until my 20's when I would just be staring at my hands and not saying a word (I was always just seen as rude and antisocial)
I am however still brutally honest and can't lie which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.
I still can't deal with noisy surroundings/people at times and have to leave the room
And I still avoid social situations of more than 1 or 2 people (when I was young the social situations usually involved alcohol which was the key thing that helped!)
I was lucky that I fell into jobs where objectivity and analytical skills are the key part and the social side is not so important but I constantly have to ensure I keep a lot of traits in control as I know they are not exactly helpful.
Cougar. If there are things that your traits lead you to do that upset people or that make social interactions difficult then surely its not unreasonable to look for ways to decrease the upset?
I have certainly got worse over the last 10 years since first kid came along. before that the wife and I both had careers but just after the boy came along the contract I was working on ended and it was easier for the wife to go back to work, now with 2 kids both at school I find my self rattling around the house, all the time in the world sheds full of bikes but no time to get out.
Assuming for the sake of argument that these are actually facts, they are facts around rates of diagnosis of ASD, not incidence.
Sure. Look, I'm the PM of a GP practice that has a DES for a supported-living village. The village houses folks with all sorts of impairments, from physical to mental and with all forms of diagnosis and age ranges. The few folk with a diagnosis of AD we look after are by and large; non verbal, have extreme physical limitations, exhibit limited social interaction/ awareness, and have extreme distress reactions (spitting, feces throwing) if they are upset. These folk have Autism.
The vest majority of adult white men (and it's nearly always white middle aged men) that go to see their GPs with an SD of mild autism, are mostly in fact either a. suffering from a different disorder (anxiety narcissism, social anxieties, OC disorders) which has similarities/ co-diagnosis as mild AD b. have a mild-moderate social maladjustment from childhood (mostly because of; under/inappropriate/over socialisation, combined with poor or inadequate parenting) But it's really hard to find online SD tools for anxiety narcissism, (for instance) so folk go and find what there is, and what there is, is sites that tell you you have mild AD
Now, as science is discovering there are all sorts of groups of adults that have undiagnosed disorders, but the overall rates of AD in adults is still less than 2% of the whole population, about the same as the rates of other personality disorders...Which leads us onto the other important part of this, and please, don't think I'm having a go, I'm not, but the SD of low or ,mild AD traits can be inappropriate for you for all sorts of reasons. For instance, look at this list of indicators of undiagnosed ADHD in adults
- more severe impairment in social and emotional communication
- characteristically restrictive behavior patterns and special interests,
- A detail-oriented perceptual style
- lack of volatility of thought and behavior,
- more severe impairment of communicative modes of expression, and
- a rarer tendency toward disorganization.
Seem familiar? sound like anyone you know who's SD themselves with mild AD or Asperger's? Or how about...
Compulsive disorder?
The manifestations of compulsive personality disorder consist of an intense preoccupation with order, lists, and formalities and an emphasis on peripheral details at the expense of flexibility and openness. As a result, the sufferers’ social competence may be massively impaired. Their social contact behavior is characterized by formalism, distance, and strict adherence to rigid notions of morality and values (e1, e9). Excessively high performance standards, perfectionism, a disproportionate inclination to self-criticism, and agonizing indecisiveness when the customary rules and values do not apply are all features of compulsive personality disorder that typically are not seen in persons with Asperger syndrome.
Or Social-Anxiety disorders?
The category of social anxiety disorders contains social phobia and avoidant personality disorder (e5). The main feature of social anxiety disorders is an intense fear of situations where the affected person occupies the center of attention, which leads to the development of strategies for keeping out of such situations. In the extreme case, there may be total withdrawal from social contact. The root cause is a deep-seated fear of criticism and negative judgment by others. Persons with these disorders often have longstanding social behavioral inhibitions, e.g., avoidance of eye contact and reduced communicative expression from childhood onward (11). Such persons’ inadequate emotional perception is characterized by the selective perception of social cues connoting a negative assessment, e.g., rejection or disdain (e6). When they face less social stress, e.g., within the family, they can usually succeed at recognizing the emotions of others
Right, so going to a random online site and SDing yourself and coming to a conclusion about "who/what you are" is probably not in your best interests. Getting a diagnosis by a trained specialist will probably provide you with some strategies and tools that will (in all likelihood) ease some of your anxieties and help you cope, but only if you know what it is you've "got" in the first instance...
TL;DR Online self diagnosis is not what you should aim for, go and see a professional who in likelihood can help.
Anndd taking off my professional hat for a moment...High IQ/Low EQ is not an indicator of a disorder, OP just because you learned violin and was quite prolific don't mean a thing, my partner was a national competition grade pianist back in Canada when she was 12, she's not mildly AD, my brother was grade 8 at classical guitar at 14, he's not mildly AD either, although he can be an asshole (this is a joke...)
Having to go back and edit the formatting is a “feature” right?
I've only read the opening post, but thought I'd share my thoughts.
I had a bit of a 'moment' the other week where a colleague who has ADD described her symptoms to me, and realised everything she said also described me to a tee. Cue me feeling quite sensitive and scared by the thought of having a 'condition' (not sure if thats the right word!) to think about. What does it mean? Is there something wrong with me? Do I need meds? etc etc etc.
After talking to my partner about it, we came to a few conclusions:
- ADD, Aspergers, autism etc... all of these things are a spectrum. Every person on the planet has behaviours and tendencies that relate to all of them, just to a different level. At what point does a trait become extreme enough to be classified as a condition? Thats up to you
- If you have coping mechanisms and ways to manage it without it impacting your life significantly, then continue to do so, and self-manage it and speak to others or research on other coping mechanisms. If it's having a significant impact then perhaps there are other things that can help (meds etc). It doesn't always mean it's a condition, just the quirks of being you.
- If you feel like thats the case, speak to a doctor, they are here to help.
- Lockdown. All of my 'symptoms' have been amplified by being generally fed-up with lockdown and stressed with work. The world isn't normal at the moment, and that will affect everyone on some level. I'm quite confident the behavioural things that I show that are bothering me will return to normal and be non-problematic when the world moves back to normal and I'm less stressed with work.
I hope that gives some perspective, the thought of something 'not being quite right' in your brain can be a pretty scary thing, but really it shouldn't be- you're not suddenly different, you just have better awareness on what you can do to help manage it yourself.
Also, theres a great documentary called 'billion dollar deals and how they changed the world"- theres an episode about the pharmaceutical industry and how they target new medicines to mental health conditions. Really interesting, I won't say any more about it but it's worth a watch.
This is great guys. Thanks so much!
@nickc - thank you for your professional
Insights. Definitely useful. For clarity, my dad has aspergers (formal diagnosis), my brother has similar traits and dyspraxia, and my son is showing strong traits (to an uneducated eye) which suggests the likelihood of me having a genetic disposition is high enough that when coupled with the “self assessment” bits and pieces (not just a test but reading up on aspergers generally) I’m happy enough with my self diagnosis for now.
To whomever mentioned my partner and narcissism; she’s not narcissistic. I appreciate you weren’t having a pop at her and were simply sharing info so please don’t take this the wrong way or as me being defensive - she is simply the most caring, nurturing amazing person who is certainly not narcissistic. I didn’t add that for the first year she and I lived together I was quite sick. I could just about hold down my job but did no cleaning, cooking, shopping etc. Then I stopped being sick and managed to pick up/include additional tasks in my routine. This was perceived as being “capable” following my sickness, so the question posed becomes “I know you’re capable, so why don’t you see what needs doing around the house? Are you lazy? Do you not care enough? - they are not self centred narcissistic questions/instructions like “please go and bring me something for my gain” or “you need to do xxx so I can have yyy”. They are just questions looking for answers into why I don’t reciprocate her love and effort in the house.
Interestingly though, my failed relationship with the kids mum was largely due to her (my ex) being a bar narcissist. I didn’t see it but after I left her (what an ordeal that was) other people pointed it out to me. And wondered how or why I was and still am so passive when she (as I now see) essentially abused me for the whole time we were together. She ruined me. Emotionally and financially whist simultaneously stifling my career. But that’s not the point here. NB anyone who finds themselves in that position - leave. Narcissistic behaviour exploiting ASC persons won’t change or be comprehensible so all you can do is leave and start again for you and the kids. ****ing terrifying but a necessity which has allowed me to be free. I didn’t know I wasn’t until I left and now see how ****ed up that relationship was. Scary to leave but worth it. Just make sure you sleep enough to carry on. Sleep is key.
Reading back my original post shows me I was overwhelmed and overreacted. Not because of labels per se but because it changes everything. I have been trying to find ways to “notice” more of what needs doing in the house. I find if I’m less tired I am more observant. But perhaps this is only because I can take in more information and so am committing things to memory - I see the bin is full, I remember I must empty bin. When tired I don’t have capacity to store that so it doesn’t happen. HOWEVER, If I now realise I’m not being lazy and the part of my brain which notices things doesn’t work when I’m consumed with something else, then the key isn’t sleep. The key is to make notes. To take time to do a walk round and list things which need doing. It’s to incorporate a new sub routine in my daily routine.
That’s one observation. I felt I needed to consider everything I do from a new paradigm and re-evaluate life in its entirety. Pretty overwhelming! Hence the panic in my “tone”.
Now that I’ve had 3 days to process it all I realise that actually she loves me dearly and will be supportive I’m sure. It’s just not being able to predict people’s reactions to events makes it difficult to plan the conversation. I think I’ll say “I’ve been reading up on ASC ref my boy and have found that lists are helpful. Committed time for important things helps. Clear instruction etc. Then I weave these into my ways of working and show value. Then we can explore more, together.
I think saying “oh shit, I’m autistic and will
Never show you love the way you traditionally expect it so stop hoping it’ll happen because it never will” is probably not great to hear. Instead, quietly putting steps in place to improve the relationship will go down well, and later I can support why they worked with a conversation about ASC off the back of some success. A positive spin on things.
She loves me and I love her. It’s unconditional so I am not worried about her leaving - unless I push her away (as I do) when it gets difficult for me to talk about.
Feeling much better about it all but still very new. You guys are great.
@nickc – thank you for your professional
Insights. Definitely useful
+1 thanks for taking the time to state your opinion/point of view.
Lots to think over in that (and allows me to make more sense of your previous contributions). It is appreciated.
nickc - you are certainly right that there is a fair bit of self indulgence ego and excuse making around this and that middle class white weirdos like me claiming to be autistic both devalues those who have significant autism and if we are not careful end up diverting resources from those who really need them
All I can say is the realization I appear to have some strong autistic traits has helped me. Its both explained some difficulties I have had in the past and helped me to find ways round those difficulties in the future. Two close friends of mine are special needs teachers specialising in ASD and they both agreed that I have some of the traits
Its an odd one tho - where are the lines between a bit odd, eccentric, weird and " labelled"
This makes me laugh though… the institute for the study of the neurologically typical
I've often said that "normal" is just a numbers game and if NT were the minority we'd have support groups for them.
Cougar. If there are things that your traits lead you to do that upset people or that make social interactions difficult then surely its not unreasonable to look for ways to decrease the upset?
Hm. This is the 'offence' argument in different pyjamas, isn't it. It hinges on whether their reaction is reasonable.
If your partner is getting upset / angry with you for watching football on Saturday afternoons, do you stop watching it or is it in fact unfair of her to expect you to give up something you love? 'Changing who you are' vs 'accepting who someone is' is a very situational thing perhaps? I don't think there's one 'right' answer here.
rickbst170
if you want to talk some of this thru off forum PM me. I am sort of out the other side of this now
As regards the anxiety thing and it getting worse with age, I don't think that's necessarily related to Aspergers and folk dealing with that shouldn't be so quick to self-diagnose.
Cougar - in some of the instances I can think of their reaction was not unreasonable. its just I didn't understand why they were annoyed and they did not realise I had no understanding of why they were annoyed. so once we had the realisation he was able to explain clearly to me why he was annoyed, I understood and could then avoid upsetting him. Previously my attempts to reduce the annoyance simply made it worse. its a too way process ( this is a good mate of mine) He now knows not to hint or be subtle. I now know to say " I don't understand, help me"
Sure. Makes sense. 👍
As regards the anxiety thing and it getting worse with age
Agree. It should actually be better as long as you accept it for what it is and have used experience over your life time to deal with it.
an odd one with my airport anxiety ( reasonable to be anxious but not at the levels I reached sometimes) - last flight I took I didn't get it at all. Trouble is I have no idea why not so do not know if I can replicate the conditions.
“you must be autistic, why do you understand me, I can’t understand you, why don’t you see these things which need doing”
I take it she means house chores, I thought that's why I might be bad at them - turns out I'm just a dick.
I do the chores now.
I’ve done a load of psychometric tests through work; Myers Briggs, red/yellow/green/blue, strength finder etc.
Careful about going down this route, if you're an extrovert you could just be a good old fashioned sociopath. As Nietzsche said "If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you" - don't do it dude you might wake up and realise the rhythm of your soul is the drum beat to Sympathy for the Devil. Just be content thinking of yourself as a run of the mill bellend and try to improve that.
That means a diagnosis is helpful – it would tell me to stop beating myself up for being an asshole because it’s not my fault and it’s a neurological issue. It’s still an issue, don’t get me wrong but it makes it ok to find another way to solve it. If I’m not ASC then I am an asshole and need to work on more traditional things to stop being an asshole. Like listen to people more, think about myself less etc. If I am ASC then listening isn’t going to fix it, so looking for patterns in social cues or doing more research into the subject will help.
The first step in overcoming being an asshole is accepting yourself as being an asshole - no need to beat yourself up about it. Awareness is the first step.
Luckily my missus likes assholes anyway.
@oakleymuppet - it is perfectly plausible that I am too simply a dick. In the way others described, this could simply be an effort at finding an excuse. Either way, researching ASC gives me new ways to try to stop being a dick. Even if I don’t have AS but if the solutions that work for AS people work for me, then it doesn’t really matter about the formal diagnosis, right? If strategies make me less of a dick (actual or perceived) then that’s a win.
Also, the psycho tests are administered through jobs. I was lucky enough to receive a lot of management training over the years which have forced introspection. I’m not going out looking for tests, I just have done a lot in the past. I’ve also studied management in some detail which has helped understand people quite a lot. People work when they are engaged. Read Maslow hierarchy of needs. Provide people the things they value from an engagement survey (Gallup 12Q etc) and meet Maslow’s hierarchy and people will perform better. I don’t need to understand people, I just need to know that if someone says “I’m not happy with my job” I say “why” and try to make the answer fit a category. Deliver for them against that need and they do better. It’s very binary but works well with large groups (team meeting feedback session), less so 121.
How will you feel if you find out you're actually a sociopath, are you prepared for that?
I feel like I love my missus and kids and it hurts when they are angry at me. For now that sufficient for me to believe (rightly or wrongly) I’m not a sociopath. I’m not prepared for any form or diagnosis really, so I’ll no go
Looking for one.
That said, it doesn’t matter. If the things I do are dick moves and I want to be less of a dick, then whatever strategies are out there I’ll try. Whether they be for sociopathy or something else. I just want to stop feeling like a dick and want to stop treating others as though I would if I were/am a dick.
Sounds like a good outlook, but as Cougar pointed out - you also have to work on this so you are happy with you as well.
Just don't let whatever you do, blow this up into a spell of depression. A good friend of mine is a headshrinker, there are apparently times in your life when it's appropriate to have a period of introspection and times when it isn't appropriate where it can worsen someone's mental health. You sound like you are a bit depressed to me as the language you are using is fairly emotive and if that is the case, you should try working on that first - you need to feel more relaxed before taking a look at yourself in a deeper way first. Of course, do this whilst tying to be a better person.
“The first step in overcoming being an asshole is accepting yourself as being an asshole – no need to beat yourself up about it. Awareness is the first step.“
This is encouraging, and I’m not even joking. I’m currently facing up to the results of my assholery and it feels like the world is ending tbf.
David, most actual full blown sociopaths don't want to know or actively avoid understanding themselves. So on the asshole to sociopath scale, try and take comfort in the fact that you're probably just on the bit of a dick end of the scale.
As long as learning to be a better person isn't actually a way of learning to manipulate people further then you're all good!
At least you're not this guy....
although he seems to have taken it on the chin quite well.
Thanks Oakley muppet. Not wishing to derail the thread too much, genuinely grateful for this calm perspective.
Derail away guys. If there’s a greater good available here then exploit it. To mean if 10 people can benefit from this then capitalise on it. I’ve received enough for now I think so crack on and morph this into whatever helps the most people 🙂
I think what I was trying to get at earlier but couldn't quite put into words is,
Don't automatically assume that everything has to be your fault. It may be that you're a bit of a dick; it may also be that someone telling you that you're a bit of a dick is simply intolerant. Ascertaining which can be challenging.
I'm perhaps a little over-sensitive around this because I've been in an abusive relationship, which I didn't realise until I got out and had the benefit of hindsight. Wanting to better yourself is laudable. Beating yourself up because someone wants you to 'change' into their perfect ideal or just toe the line and behave, not so much. That's a whole vicious circle of catastrophic self-worth failure and trust me, that's really not a road you want to be embarking down. If you're "not good enough" for someone then why are they still with you when they want something different?