Or how about vaguely intellectual, or just wearing glasses (and Russian) - 20 million of whom sent to Siberia under Stalin just in case they had a vaguely seditious thought.
Perhaps there are evil ****s in all corners of the world?
Well worth giving them a poke to see if they know why they care about this in particular.
Yes I agree. The Palestinian/Zionist issue and the passions it arouses is an interesting one.
I think one of the reasons for this, is that we are officially told to support the wrong side.
Which is clearly always going to cause some problems.
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And of course unlike the Sudan, one side often speaks English with an American or Australian accent.
They also sometimes have light coloured hair.
Which makes the foreigners that are killing each other, somewhat more interesting.
Grudges are bad but very powerful
Your comment Hairychested, certainly applied to the Boers.
Brutely repressed by the British, thousands died of starvation and disease in the concentrations camps which the British invented especially to incarcerate them in.
Finally free from British oppression, the Boers/Afrikaans became the new oppressors. Using the full might of the Apartheid State, they subjugate the South African people in complete defiance of the whole world.
Of course the Apartheid State eventually collapsed, and it is no more. Even with some of the the most advanced weaponry in the world, including nuclear weapons, it was always going to be doomed.
As indeed is the Zionist State.
No idea if this has been posted in this thread
* Warning - the link contains some potentially upsetting footage *
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719
Epic fail from Hamas. Got to love the way they ignore the women and kids and try to save the clowns in uniform 😕
Oh goodie - the Lebanese have decided to use their pointy stick now too.
Cue them whinging when Israel retaliates.
nickc- thank you for that. Robert Fisk is brave with that piece. That is proper Journalism.
5thElefant - Totally agree. If your black and your country can't offer anything strategic or mineral then you are a second class Citizen.
Hairychested. You assume that the 5million agree that the murder of innocent women and children not linked to Nazism in anyway is 'in their name'?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3235155.stm
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1444033/Peace-activist-shot-by-Israelis-is-%27brain-dead%27.html
I wonder if there is a policy of shoot to kill on any Foreigners getting involved who may uncover anything that would give Israel a bad name?
Oh and just for the record, I am not anti-semitic. My thoughts on Islam though..
druidh - MemberOh goodie - the Lebanese have decided to use their pointy stick now too.
Cue them whinging when Israel retaliates.
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I don't know where you get your information from druidh, but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident. The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah - an organisation which is much more heavily armed than Hamas and which they now fear.
The whole point of the Israeli government's pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak.
I am also unaware of Hamas particularly "whinging". In fact I find the statements and military communiques issued by the Information Office of the Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) to be factual and pretty unemotive, check them out for yourself :
[url= http://www.alqassam.ps/english/?action= ]Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades[/url]
On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been "whinging". Repeatedly whinging that Israel has been violating international law and the Geneva Convention.
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hora - MemberI wonder if there is a policy of shoot to kill on any Foreigners getting involved who may uncover anything that would give Israel a bad name?
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One of the things which Israel fears the most is the truth. That is why whilst some countries have journalists "embedded" with troops during military operations, Israel does the complete opposite and bars them, illegally, from Gaza. Israel simply does not want the war crimes which they know, will committed, covered.
Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006. Even though for many hours the UN was in communication with the Israelis informing them that they were shelling UN observers, the Israelis continued to shell until all the observers had been killed. The UN observers had almost certainly observed the Israelis targeting civilians. The Israelis claimed that the shelling was just a big mistake.
With reference to the link, the Israelis have a long record of shooting children. They also have a record of shooting journalists who film or take photographs of them killing children.
We in the West only see a sanitised version of what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. The people of other countries see quite different reports. Here is a news clip showing very young Palestinians children with small calibre bullet holes in the their bodies - there appears to be no other serious injuries.
[url] http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yFgtk-9tVK8 [/url]
Now I don't know the details behind that story, and the truth might not be as horrific as it would appear, but there can be no doubt the many members of the IDF have no respect for the lives of Palestinian children. Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents. Something which was described as a war crime.
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But why would Israelis soldiers kill children when it does them so much harm in the eyes of the world ? Perhaps the Zionist upbringing which teaches them that they are "God's chosen people" fills them with so much hate towards Palestinians that they consider Palestinians to be sub-human. Perhaps when they enter areas with the specific task of killing Palestinians, they engage in such a killing frenzy that they lose all sense of what is right or wrong and fail to see a problem with shelling UN schools or UN relief convoys as they [i]undisputedly[/i] have in the last two days. Perhaps the Israeli airman and sailors who are bombing and shelling 1.5 million unarmed civilians, can only do so if they can convince themselves that they are sub-human.
Who knows ......
Just as an aside ..
Theres a large jewish comunity near to me, and a large muslim one.
Jewish leader... "we are praying for the victims.."
Muslim leader... "we are praying for the victims on both sides..."
ernie_lynch :
[b]...but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident.[/b]
Eh? Playing down the incident? WTF! You mean they should let journalists broadcast their affairs? When is media, highly commercial, allowed to dictate the interpretation of war?
[b]"The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah ... which they now fear."[/b]
You mean everyone welcome death?
[b]"The whole point of the Israeli government's pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak."[/b]
Crikey. A pre-election campaign ... so does that mean because they are weak they have the rights to fire home made "fireworks" towards their neighbour?
[b]"Information Office of the Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) to be factual and pretty unemotive ..."[/b]
I think North Korean is far more factual with their Dear Leader being the living god.
[b]"On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been "whinging"."[/b]
Eh? So they should go in with their guns blazing instead? They are supposed to whine as that is their role in war.
[b]"One of the things which Israel fears the most is the truth."[/b]
Now this is beginning to sound like "the god will strike down upon thy with all his/her might". The basic truth is very simple, you shoot as many of your enemies as possible until their succumb to your will which is applicable to both sides. Ya, truth. The truth is that striking the Europe Million jackpot is much harder than Lotto.
[b]"Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006."[/b]
Yes, the UN observers should have a TV remote to press the "pause" button to stop the shelling before they went in.
[b]"With reference to the link, the Israelis have a long record of shooting children. ... Here is a news clip showing very young Palestinians children with small calibre bullet holes in the their bodies - there appears to be no other serious injuries."[/b]
Who keeps the record?
The death of children is tragic but how do they know they were killed by the Israelis?
[b]"Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents."[/b]
Perhaps the Israeli soldiers were too busy fighting? Or perhaps it was a no go area due to fighting for the past four days?
[b]"But why would Israelis soldiers kill children when it does them so much harm in the eyes of the world ?"[/b]
North Koreans' eyes? China's eyes? Whose eyes of the world exactly do you represent?
[b]"Perhaps the Zionist upbringing which teaches them that they are "God's chosen people" fills them with so much hate towards Palestinians that they consider Palestinians to be sub-human.[/b]
Eh!? Stone him! You mean there is another god?
😯
[i]The death of children is tragic but how do they know they were killed by the Israelis?[i/]
There are Israelis (and Jews) against what is happening to the Palestinians. Some speak out but many don't just like in Germany..
If 7/7 didnt happen how would the UK feel about what is happening now? In a way we are all complicit in Israels actions.
Once the 'Refugees' are removed from Gaza then 'everyone' will be happy.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7819492.stm ]Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying. [/url]
I wonder if the house had some nice capacious shower rooms? Perhaps a few bunk beds. Who knows, maybe even a little sign over the gate saying something like "Work will set you free".............................................
[i]"Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said.[/i]
O.K. so reports are reports but you can not use brute force on a civilian population to eradicate terrorists.
And before everyone gets on their high horse saying 'well what is the solution?' The solution is not simple. The solution is to create a wealthy Gaza strip - Poverty and terrorism are normal bedfellows, by long term investment in Gaza by Israel as apossed to isolating itself from all states on it's borders, is the only solution. In the short term this will not stop Hamas. This is a long term strategy of rebuilding infrastructure and lives. Don't get me wrong I hate terrorism and with good reason. But the issue remains that dealing with the root causes of terrorism is the best way to eradicate it.
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Thank you for your response chewkw. I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout fascinating, in much the same way as I found the bollox spouted by racist supporters of the Apartheid State intriguing.
The ability to stand truth on it's head is truly impressive. Of course we all know that it is important that a lie should be quote :
[i][b]"so 'colossal' that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously"[/b][/i] - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.
A [i]minor[/i] example of this was when after shelling a UN school, the Israelis not content with lying about the presence of resistance fighters at the school, expanded on the lie by releasing what they claimed to be the names of the two dead Hamas fighters. The UN dismissed this as absurd as the Israelis had not even visited the site, nor they claimed, did the Israelis keep records of Palestinian casualties.
Let's wade through some of your lies chewkw .....
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...but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident.Eh? Playing down the incident? WTF! You mean they should let journalists broadcast their affairs? When is media, highly commercial, allowed to dictate the interpretation of war?
The claim that the Israelis were playing down the incident was made by the BBC World Service. The BBC World Service is neither 'highly commercial' nor does it have a reputation of misinterpreting comments made by the Israeli government. The Israelis are not noted for 'playing down incidents' on the contrary, they are noted for 'playing up incidents' in an attempt to justify their invariably disproportionate responses.
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"The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah ... which they now fear."You mean everyone welcome death?
I mean that Israel targeted Gaza because the risks to themselves were negligible. Gaza essentially represents 1.5 million unarmed refugees, had they been able to fight back as Hezbollah would have done, they would not have been attacked - especially just before an election.
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"The whole point of the Israeli government's pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak."Crikey. A pre-election campaign ... so does that mean because they are weak they have the rights to fire home made "fireworks" towards their neighbour?
The ceasefire was broken by Israel on the 4th November, not by Hamas. Hamas has a good record of complying with ceasefires. The ceasefire was due to expire on the 19th of December anyway, so Israel could have waited until then to resume hostilities. However, Israel needed to escalate the situation so that the onslaught on Gaza could be well under way before their elections next month and before the new US president took office. The Christmas break was also useful because many of the world's governments would be on holiday and unable to meet to condemn Israel. The 4th of November was chosen because on that day all of the world's eyes were on the US presidential elections.
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"On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been "whinging"."Eh? So they should go in with their guns blazing instead? They are supposed to whine as that is their role in war.
It is [u]not[/u] the role of the International Committee of the Red Cross to "whine". [u]On the contrary[/u] it is the role of the Red Cross to remain neutral, say nothing, and just provide humanitarian aid in conflict zones. I don't think I can ever recall the Red Cross condemning the actions of one government as much as they have condemned the Israelis.
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"Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006."Yes, the UN observers should have a TV remote to press the "pause" button to stop the shelling before they went in.
I don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about - and I suspect that you don't either. How about finding out the facts before making moronic statements ? From The Times :
[url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693450.ece ]UN observers begged Israelis to stop shelling their position[/url]
[b]" UN monitors made ten phone calls to military commanders before the air strike that killed four of them" [/b]
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"Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents."Perhaps the Israeli soldiers were too busy fighting? Or perhaps it was a no go area due to fighting for the past four days?
There's no "perhaps" anything. The Israelis refused to allow Red Cross ambulances access.
[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/world/middleeast/09redcross.html?partner=rss&emc=rss ]In an unusually blunt criticism, the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross said it had been seeking access to shell-damaged areas in Zeitoun in the east of Gaza City since Saturday but the Israeli authorities granted permission only on Wednesday[/url]
Of course perhaps in your fantasy world chewkw, the Red Cross are all liars and the Israelis are just deeply misunderstood.
I reckon you must inhabit an alternative universe similar to the one inhabited by those who claim that the Nazis never did all those horrible things to the Jews.
muppet.
its not worth arguing with chewkw, even if he personally witnessed an Israeli soldier massacring children, he would see it at the terrorists spawn flung themselves onto the heroic soldier bullets in an act of aggression.
If a bunch of chavs keep taunting and chucking stones at a lion and then it finally turns on them, is that the lion's fault?
Neighbourhood bully in the words of Bob Dylan.
ernie_lynch
"I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout [b]fascinating[/b], in much the same way as I found the bollox spouted by racist supporters of the Apartheid State intriguing."
Yes, fascinating & intriguing for me too to think that people try to find moral in wars. i.e. to kill discriminately. When is war without civilian death?
"The BBC World Service is neither 'highly commercial' nor does it have a reputation of misinterpreting comments made by the Israeli government. The Israelis are not noted for 'playing down incidents' on the contrary, they are noted for 'playing up incidents' in an attempt to justify their invariably disproportionate responses."
BBC world service unbiased? Tell that to the Russian and again it your view. Which nation in war does not "play down incidents"? I bet all of them will claim to be the victim or hard done by.
"I mean that Israel targeted Gaza because the risks to themselves were negligible. Gaza essentially represents 1.5 million unarmed refugees, had they been able to fight back as Hezbollah would have done, they would not have been attacked - especially just before an election."
You do not enter a war if you cannot win. Unarmed? Are you blind? Watch BBC lately? No guns in Gaza? I bet AK-47 is the bet seller there.
"The ceasefire was broken by Israel on the 4th November, not by Hamas. Hamas has a good record of complying with ceasefires."
Both sides claim the other broken the ceasefire. Hmmm ... interesting.
"On the contrary it is the role of the Red Cross to remain neutral, say nothing, and just provide humanitarian aid in conflict zones."
Then why the hell did they speak out on BBC last night? Don't they know they are supposed to pick up human bits & pieces when they enter the war zone? Are you saying the standard of war has deteriorated to the point even Red Cross [b](actually moon not cross because cross means Christians coming to help them)[/b] has to comment on the gruesome reality of death?
" I don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about - and I suspect that you don't either. How about finding out the facts before making moronic statements ? ... " UN monitors made ten phone calls to military commanders before the air strike that killed four of them"
Why on earth do they have to be there in the first place? Monitor the war? Are you saying they are the referee in war? Oh ya, the UN should send them to monitor the Taliban too.
"The Israelis refused to allow Red Cross ambulances access."
Okay, Red Cross were refused so are you saying the military should listen to their request?
"Of course perhaps in your fantasy world chewkw, the Red Cross are all liars and the Israelis are just deeply misunderstood."
In my fantasy world they are all secret lovers.
richc:
"its not worth arguing with chewkw, even if he personally witnessed an Israeli soldier massacring children, he would see it at the terrorists spawn flung themselves onto the heroic soldier bullets in an act of aggression.
Honestly, I did not witness with my own eyes on all the death except from TV as I sit in the comfy of my lounge.
My question to you, did you see that with your own eyes in the killing fields? You mean you were there? Or do you sit, just like me, in the comfy lounge watching it on TV?
You guys do have a twisted mind you know. Wish I could be as good as you.
😯
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ernie_lynch - MemberThank you for your response chewkw. I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout fascinating......
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I am now finding your responses rather tedious and boring.
my point was hypothetical chewkw, which I thought was obvious, mind you with your ability to miss the point and misinterpret reality it doesn't surprise me that you couldn't work that out.
On the old forum Chewkw was just another of Hora's alternate logins..... is someone else using it now or has Hora developed a split personality and started arguing with himself? Bizarre.
I am fairly certain they are different people, Hora might be a prat, but he isn't a xenophobic facist prat.
The one thing I have leant from this thread is, just how different Hora is to the person which I had perceived him to be. Going by his previously offensive comments about Muslims, I have been quite frankly stunned by his fair, sensible, and humane comments, on this thread.
Live and learn, eh ?
Yup, even for this form, chewkw has managed to exibit a bewildering level of stupidity. I'd had thought that level of sticking your head in the sand (or up their own rear end) could result in a serious neck injury!
Chewkw - War, any war is wrong. I'm not opposed to a good scrap myself but is it not always the case that the 'first casualty of war is innocence' the issue as I continually repeat is that Israel is simply making things worse through the amount of force excerted. To ignore a UN mandate is totally wrong of Hamas, but for a pseudo civilised nation it's abhorent.
This is not the end this is only the beginning, those idiots seem hell bent on setting the Middle East alight and leaving us to pick up the pieces.
When I watch the news I find myself longing for someone to fight back against Israel.
Not only their aggression, but their arrogance in the aftermath will hopefully bring down on it the retaliation it deserves.
The UN should start holding back on Iranian nuclear inspections.
Papa, no offence but you should live in Israel for a while before making such a statement. If you don't remember it read up about the 6 day war.
[b]Why are you lot bothering with this? It's done to death. Nobodys going to bring anyone round.[/b] Most of you are talking nonsense anyway, with some sort of pretence that you are really well informed. Most of you havn't spent any time in the region, don't know much history and like having an argument on the internet, after reading a couple of articles in publications of various note. I can't believe theres been 265 posts on this or so, why you all wasting your breath?
colnagokid - MemberJust as an aside ..
Theres a large jewish comunity near to me, and a large muslim one.
Jewish leader... "we are praying for the victims.."
Muslim leader... "we are praying for the victims on both sides..."
What a silly silly thing to post.
Why dont you lot all shut the **** up. Are the Israelis the new Nazis? No. I think its a distasteful comparison.
I agree Joe
Papa_Lazarou - MemberWhen I watch the news I find myself longing for someone to fight back against Israel.
Not only their aggression, but their arrogance in the aftermath will hopefully bring down on it the retaliation it deserves.
The UN should start holding back on Iranian nuclear inspections.
Another fantastically stupid post. I'm amazed. What a naive, stupid, ignorant, exceptionally poor taste post. It's ill informed, its ridiculous.
[i]Why dont you lot all shut the **** up. Are the Israelis the new Nazis? No. I think its a distasteful comparison.[/i]
It may be distasteful, but the actions of the Israelis invite it upon themselves by their brutality. They themselves cheapen the memory of the Holocaust by using it as a pretext for every vile abuse of the weak and frightened people that they are so happy to dominate.
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If it's the opinions of the people in the region which count tyger, we best start listening to what the Palestinians have say.
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Or isn't that what you meant ?
Does anyone who isn't Jewish or reliant on jews for political influence actually support Israel?
Dr J is bang on there - the way israel is behaving at the moment is making the whole world hate them.
Well, me for starters, Papa.
The title of this thread is inflammatory in the very least and has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments from those who have never lived out there. Sure, it's easy to quote ad nauseam and link to this and that but unless you've actually been there what gives you the right to judge? Opinions yes but that's not what I'm reading.
I think the title is a distasteful comparison to make of anyone - you really have no idea at all of the hurt that you can cause just in this alone regardless of the current situation.
I'm saddened by what is happening at the moment, I think it's tragic.
Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it's also weaving it's way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.
has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments
And I find your comments very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and wrong.
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Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it's also weaving it's way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.
You need a reality check fella.
There's no "hatred" weaving it's way through this thread. Although there's plenty of people who are appalled by the slaughter of Palestinians.
Shame on you for wanting to silence them by requesting that the thread be closed.
Joe,
it was just something that was in the local paper-silly editor!
Not that I need to defend myself to you, you if dont like what is being discussed/argued about look at the bike stuff!
"what tyre for the middle east" try that one!
Perhaps if both sides stopped indoctrinating their populations and more importantly their children with hate for each other then there may one day be a glimmer of hope, I can't see anyone coming out of this favorably.
Personally I think its a bit over the top leveling residential areas, schools etc just because something not that far removed from a glorified firework lands in your rose garden or onto of your SUV.
I can't help wishing the whole region would suffer a catastrophic earthquake followed by an enormous flood to level it all out and make them all start again!
personally I blame the Swiss! 😛
Mr Nutt go back to mtbrider mate 😆
oh, I should add that I was horrified to here that blond lass from the Israeli Army refer to their activities as part of an "ultimate solution" on the news yesterday/the day before, I genuinely could not believe my ears!
I'm the Daddy! 😮
tankslapper, only if you'll come with me 😉
O.K. Big Boy!
Clam down ... it's only a war.
There is war in Africa using child soldiers but do I hear any protest?
Darfur too is fighting but do you righteous ones give a toss? Ya, I know they ride camel and people live in mud hut but I bet you don't want to know because they have black skin is it not.
China & Burma too kill their own people but do you give a toss? Where is UN and where is the voice of EU? Is it because they have different religion not of god?
Russian invaded Georgia but do you give a toss? I dare UN & EU to intervene and to send troops over. But I guess not because you cannot bully them.
North Korean dear leader still suffer from bad hair cut but do you offer to give a solution? I mean do you?
Now Israelis are kicking Hamas backside and you go ape shite sitting on your high horse in the comfort of your TV lounge. Talking about humanitarian disaster big time. WTF!
What makes Palestinians lives more precious than the death in other nations currently in conflict?
Are you trying to discriminate death and to treat non-Palestinians death as less worthy?
Ts ts ts ...!
I remember once I asked my new Irish colleague what she thought of Oliver Cromwell and with her strong Irish accent she replied ... "Oliver Cromwell is a bastard!" LOL! Her strong Irish accent and her voice ... so cute. 😆 Turn me on a bit I must confess and I found that funny too.
[i]Now Israelis are kicking Hamas backside and you go ape shite sitting on your high horse in the comfort of your TV lounge. Talking about humanitarian disaster big time. WTF![/i]
The difference is that in a sense this is [b]our[/b] war, as we created the conditions for it in 1948 by giving the Jews something that was not ours to give, because it arose from [b]our[/b] WW2, from [b]our[/b] guilt at the fate of the Jews in Nazi hands, and because today the Israelis claim to be upholding [b]our[/b] values.
Palestinian lives are indeed not worth more or less than others, which is why hundreds of them are not needed to compensate for the killing of 3 or 4 Israelis who were unlucky enough to be underneath Hamas fireworks.
[url= http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/ ]Some background information[/url]. Note especially the use of human shields by the brave boys of the IDF.
chewkw, if you paid attention to what was happening in the world you might not talk so much drivel and perhaps not come across as a, quote : "fascist pillock" ....... although I wouldn't hold my breath.
And as I'm very slightly bored, let's pick away at some of the nonsense you've spouted.
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Darfur too is fighting .........
Yes indeed they are, and very tragic it is too. One of the difference of course, is that has been going on for over 5 years now, not two weeks. Another is that in Darfur the United States isn't supporting one side slaughtering the other. But since you appear to be interested in playing the "dead people numbers game" why do you choose Darfur, why not Iraq ? After all, since 2003 300,000 have died in Darfur compared with estimates of anything up to more an one million in Iraq (no one knows for sure as General Tommy Franks who led the invasion of Iraq said, "We don't do body counts")
Well actually I'll tell you why. A quick Google search of the Zionist press, shows that comparing the slaughter in Gaza with Darfur is the official Zionist propaganda line ie : "it's OK to slaughter Palestinians, because what happened Darfur was worst". (best not to mention Iraq in case it upsets the Americans)
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China & Burma too kill their own people
You're going to have to help me with that one. I wasn't aware that there were wars going on in China and Burma. Are they using F-16s against civilians ? Are tanks rolling into the towns and cities ? Are buildings being flattened by naval bombardments ?
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Russian invaded Georgia but do you give a toss?
You really need to pay more attention chewkw. There was a long and lively thread covering that conflicted on here. I believe it was agreed that the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was the cause of that particular conflict.
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But hey chewkw, well done for trying to defend the indefensible - it can't be easy.
Have you tried your hand at defending what the Apartheid State did in South Africa, or what the Nazi State did in Germany ? Or do you just specialise in defending the Zionist State ?
ernie_lynch, in all seriousness, I think you've got real issues that you need professional help with. Your attitude is full of bitterness. You remind me of someone who always has to have the last word!
[i]You remind me of someone who always has to have the last word[/i]
no. that would be me.
LOL!
Thank you for your concern for my well-being tyger**. But how about sticking to the subject of the thread - have you got something which you want to say, or have run out of comments ?
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** I feel hugely comfortable about my concern for the Palestinian people. The disgust which I feel about their slaughter - one third of the casualties are children, doesn't I believe, warrant 'professional help'.
innocents shouldn't get hurt, but if the palenstines stopped hurting the small number of israelies then there would have been no cause for them to invade. Either Hamas leadership have no concern for the plight of their people or being extremely stupid. Everyone knows you dont pick on the biggest kid in the playground, you end up getting hurt. Or maybe they're relying on the hand wringers to condemn Israel to oblivion.
ernie_lynch - I apologise. I'll refrain from commenting any more, No offence meant.
[i]if the palenstines stopped hurting the small number of israelies then there would have been no cause for them to invade[/i]
Someone else turning history on its head. Hamas didn't pick a fight, the Israelis did. Read some of the information provided in the links quoted above and form an opinion then.
No offence to residents of Isle of man, A quick solution relocate the Jews to a simlar sized area to where they are now or something like that yeah! .....problem solved ?????.... ...... I'd be interested to see if that would be the end to the problem... Hamas's flag has a swastika on it, Hezbollah's flag has a gun on it would they suddenly change their status as an organisation if Israel was renamed back as The Pallestine, or would they look some place else to fire rockets at. I'm not flicking through over 300 responses to this topic to find somebody has already mentioned this point.
present history not going back eons. Most countries and people in the world could have a grievance if you back far enough. It baffles me why everyone empathies with Palestine over any other difranchised people.
Absolutely no offence taken tyger. And comment as much as you like. But don't expect me to necessarily agree with you.
Agree to disagree then Ernie - thank you for you good grace.
One last comment from me then - where is Tony Blair in all this? Seems to be very conspicuous by his absense.
* absence
where is Tony Blair
From this thread 6 days ago :
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ernie_lynch - Member
Coyote, it's not just his engagements which the world's highest paid public speaker has to consider, it's also the security implications.
As was reported in the Telegraph the other day, "he has not made a trip into Gaza and postponing a visit to see a new sewage treatment works in northern Gaza last July for security reasons"
Launching a war from thousands of miles away is one thing, but being stuck in the middle of one is something completely different.
Posted 6 days ago #
Still at it I see. When are you lot going to get to the conclusion that you are wasting your time arguing and go for a general consensus. If not then the bigest one of you can use force to shut the others up and write the winners history.
DrJ :
[b]"The difference is that in a sense this is our war, as we created the conditions for it in 1948 by giving the Jews something that was not ours to give, because it arose from our WW2, from our guilt at the fate of the Jews in Nazi hands, and because today the Israelis claim to be upholding our values."[/b]
Your war? 😆
So does that mean all the problems & conflicts that are presently surfacing in former British colonial states are your creation? That is half the world you know? 😆 So how do you intend to right the wrong of half the world you have created. Not you directly but the creation of your ancestors.
ernie_lynch :
[b]"But hey chewkw, well done for trying to defend the indefensible - it can't be easy.[/b]
I see you have done a great job trying very hard. 😆
[b]
Yes indeed they are, and very tragic it is too. One of the difference of course, is that has been going on for over 5 years now, not two weeks. Another is that in Darfur the United States isn't supporting one side slaughtering the other.[/b]
LOL! It is still on after 5 years? So you prioritise death? Well done. You definitely have a problem with people of darker skin. Are you saying so long as the people with darker skin kill each other that is alright? You do have a twisted mind of being highly discriminatory of those death in Darfur don't you.
[/b]"You're going to have to help me with that one. I wasn't aware that there were wars going on in China and Burma."[b]
Hey, have you forgotten your eagerness and the sense of justice to help those that are unfortunate? Or do you mean if they were kill "hands" and not technology like F-16 that is alright? Ts! Ts! Ts! Talking about double standard.
Number game? LOL! So you say the death of one person is alright?
[/b]"I believe it was agreed that the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia was the cause of that particular conflict."[b]
What! What! What!
(the quick burst from Sheila Broflovski. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_and_Sheila_Broflovski)
You are trying to be complicated now aren't you. Are you confused? Or are you afraid the Russian will kick your backside?
You answer should be Russian should pull out once the situation is back to normal but who are going to make them? Perhaps EU or UN ... Wow! why I did not think of that? Or hang on a minute ... the gas! the gas! It's winter time in EU.
Now why justice should be different? Why do you feel that you should go ape shite on one but not the others? What is the cause of that? Did you experience unfair treatment by the Israel or USA in the past?
[/b]"Have you tried your hand at defending what the Apartheid State did in South Africa, or what the Nazi State did in Germany ? Or do you just specialise in defending the Zionist State ?"[b]
Eh? Isn't that history?
How about this question, where do Jewish people originated from?
😆
Jewish (Hebrew) people as far as i know originate from the area that was known as Judaia which is now The West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Israel as it is today. What seems like a simple solution to relocate the Israeli people as i mentioned earlier is out of the question, they're not gonna shift by any means and why should they, but its an option for a means to an end.
This vid link might shed light on how Hamas values its own people...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5c5_1231615971
Today during the protests in "support" of the corruption that is HAMAS a british policeman was beaten unconscious by "people" against the Israelis defending themselves.
My thoughts are that if the people are found who commited this crime they should be sent to Israel with people knowing what they have done. Lets see how they enjoy their human rights then - they are lower than scum.
While i dont support Israel and what they are doing anything that wipes out terrorists and their supporters cant be bad.
For far to long Britain has allowed people who hate the democratic society they live in to thrive, its time we dealt with them the way they want to deal with us.
chewkw instead of constantly changing the subject, why don't you stick to what this thread is about - ie the alleged crimes committed by Israel.
So far you've tried to change the topic by talking about Darfur, China, Burma, Russia, and Georgia !!!
The possible crimes committed by other countries is all very interesting, but absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening in Gaza today.
You would make a rubbish defence lawyer - I repeat, it's not alleged crimes committed in Darfur, China, Burma, Russia, and Georgia which is on trial here, but the alleged crimes being committed in Gaza.
Stick to defending your Client !
[i]While i dont support Israel and what they are doing anything that wipes out terrorists and their supporters cant be bad.[/i]
Well there's your problem right there. Do you imagine that the kids that grow up in a shit-hole, with their parents killed or maimed by the Israelis, and no prospect of a normal life, will be more, or less likely to support Hamas? For every fighter that the Israelis manage to kill, 100 more will be motivated to take their place.
chewkw and ernie_lynch are like IDF and Hamas of this forum, do you think you two could get together face to face and discuss the issue. Or would the entrenched views of both sides prevent a positive out come, if you guys can't do peace how will it ever happen in Isreal/Palestine.
[i]chewkw and ernie_lynch are like IDF and Hamas of this forum, do you think you two could get together face to face and discuss the issue. Or would the entrenched views of both sides prevent a positive out come, if you guys can't do peace how will it ever happen in Isreal/Palestine.[/i]
That analogy is more apt than you realise - you assume that in a situation you know nothing about, that the two combatants must be half-right and half-wrong, so that Israel and Hamas just need to sit down and have a nice cup of tea and split the difference. However, in reality - which is seen easily in this thread - one side is absolutely wrong. Of course it is not a big deal that chewkw spouts bollocks from morning til night, but in the real world people are dying because of Israel.
Hello DrJ. I must make this clear I only want there to be peace in this situation (and others obviously). I do realise the analogy was apt, that is why I posted it. However please do not assume that I do not know about the situation. I choose not to comment about it because talking peace and tolerance is the only way forward, if some one could start that debate on here and over there. I fear however that hate has taken over the hearts of many. Again peace.
[i]I choose not to comment about it because talking peace and tolerance is the only way forward, if some one could start that debate on here and over there.[/i]
Well, you seem to be a bit confused. This is an internet forum. Whatever we agree or decide here will have less than zero impact on the children being starved and bombed in Gaza.
As for extending your philosophy to Gaza, of course that would be nice, but it seems a bit far-fetched that as long as one side is refusing to talk to the other, and all the while trying to kill them, and destroy the lives of the unlucky survivors that it is going to happen, and your implication that there is an equal blame for that situation is a little naive.
DrJ I apologise for seeming confused, if a sincere hope for peace is confused. As soon as possible I hope the two sides can come together and talk their way out of war. How they do that I have now idea but I suspect it will be tough for both sides to make the move towards an alternative to war. My philosophy (did not know I had one but you could be right) is to hope, pray and support anyone who makes the moves towards the end of the death and distruction whoever commits it. Peace is a naive concept in this day and age I agree but it's the only thing that we have. It works very well with love of ones fellow human beings. I can see that I'm going to be drawn into a long discussion here but all I have to offer is they should get talking so I'll duck out here. Peace again to you and thanks for your comments
Holy shit - pardon the pun - but wasn't Jesus the founding member of the PLO?
Look, I have NO LOVE for either side - only the love of what is right and what is wrong. It's the only thing we have in this sad ****ed up world. In that sense the Israelis are therefore wrong. It's O.K. to be God's chosen people but a hell of a thing to live up to that.
Gazza 1 Israel Not Left The Changing Room!
[b][/b][/b] Who forgot their end bold tag? Or is it just getting heated.
You 5th?
An elderly lady at the protest march today in London mentioned that if only Hamas had not started firing missles then none of this would have happened. The banners read "Peace in Israel and Gaza" laying the blame at Hamas. Made sense to me.
[b]klegg: "Jewish (Hebrew) people as far as i know originate from the area that was known as Judaia which is now The West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Israel as it is today."[/b]
Ta da! That "might" be the answer why Israelis want to stay there forever and fight for their territory or enemies. It is their home!
I remember once I asked my Jewish friend why their race has been prosecuted & hated all this time. He had no answer but thought that perhaps it was due to the crucification of Jesus the Jew.
Did anyone of you watch Jesus the Jew programme this evening? Interesting arguments. Judging from the case/argument presented it seems like Jewish people have been prosecuted for centuries due to Paul's new testament? (apparently it was Paul or St Paul that caused it according to the programme)
Apparently Jesus was not baptised so he was born a Jew and died a Jew. Jesus was merely trying to be a very good Jew or trying to promote a new form of Judaism (implied by the programme not me)? So he was preaching Judaism as there was no such thing as Christianity then.
On another note. Taking the logic of that argument of God the creator ... that means Judaism comes first followed by Christianity then Islam? All in the same branch and all from middle east, so they are in fact one big family beating the hell out of each other because some of them wanted to re-write the doctrine.
Matter becomes more complicated because latter on as their ego grew greater it gets to their head and overshadows what it means to do the right thing. All they care is my God is the real God argument and beat the hell out of each other until today, when they cannot even live side by side. Well done whoever started it and preached the gospel of hate ... I bet since then s/he might have be locked up in the Brazen Bull and for eternity.
So perhaps they should ask God why his children behave so badly and why the hell are they so egotistic?
Therefore, until such time as all of them accept they are the "creation" of the same God. They will kill each other until the world ends.
So what you say? Especially ernie_lynch & DrJ.
How are you going to tell them to stop fighting because they are all one big family? Solve that and there will be peace on earth for a while ... until the God's armies find another target perhaps. i.e. the non-believers.
In the meantime, ernie_lynch & DrJ are still going ape shite with steam (not fire as they are not dragons but just ape shite) coming out from their nostrils.
😆
Made sense to me
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So Israel not breaking the ceasefire and entering Gaza to kill six Hamas fighters didn't make sense to you ?
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians ]"A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured"[/url]
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And Israel sticking to the terms of the ceasefire and lifting their illegal blockade didn't make sense to you either ?
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Keep repeating Israeli propaganda tyger, and I'll keep challenging it.
ernie_lynch,
What's with your short term solution of stopping this and that? Blaming this and that?
You are a propaganda machine and a very evil one.
😆
Why all the laughing emoticons in your posts chewkw ?
Do you suffer from some strange uncontrollable impulsive manic laughter ?
ernie_lynch,
The "manic" laughter is laughing at you for being such a troll but you can call that "educational" if you wish.
😯
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So true...
ernie_lynch,
I apologise for using the word "Troll" on you so please continue.
😳