[Closed] Apple addict considering a PC! - replacing/upgrading a MacBook Pro 15 from 2010

IA what was the problem with Windows Backup?

true. I'd go as far as saying it's considerably better than a mouse.

Still running a 2008 macbook

It's had 2 new batteries , new keyboard , 2 new chargers , ram upgrade , new hdd but it's still going strong

Bit like triggers brush

Had loads of windows laptops for work and they have all bluescreened regularly.

HP laptops have been the worst

Had loads of windows laptops for work and they have all bluescreened regularly.

A lot of people's problems with Windows seem to be what their work do to them.

I am forced to use Windows 7 on a dell laptop at work and it's awful. It's only 18 months old and getting replaced this month. It is no longer capable of allowing me to change the format of a single cell in excel. It complains that it hasn't got enough memory to do it!!!! It's got 4gb fast, and I only want to change 1 cell.

My 6 year old I'm actually however is very happy to do whatever I want.

they are both rather boringly similar nowadays
hardware wise: £ for £ the quality is very similar. People who say otherwise are not comparing at the same price range.

experience wise: nothing between them. People who say otherwise are just so used to one particular way of doing things that they forgot they had to learn that in the fist place.

just set a budget and buy what you like the look of. You don't need anything special by the sound of it.

To use an oldish STW saying - full of win! and about time someone popped up with a balanced and real-world opinion on this. Hopefully folk will harp back to this thread whenever that awful tag team of Molgrips/Mikewsmith start with their crap in future threads. 😛

But seriously, when I looked at a replacement for an ancient Dell desktop I had no preconceptions and compared models in the £1300 range. At that time a few models available from Acer and Samsung almost took my money; they both had an aluminium case and both had pretty impressive screens, though not quite as good as the Retina. The one thing that swayed it for me was, for an extra £100, both Windows laptops only offered a 128gb ssd so it was a no brainer to snap up the 13" rMBP with double the storage.

It's a simple matter of what you need it for or what you like to use. I particularly like the gestures on OSX, they're really nice to use - App Exposé and Show Desktop are particular nice.

I swap betwen mac and pc all the time and dont see what all the fuss is about tbh. Its not like it was 10yrs ago they both run the same software and as long as you keep the pc clean of crap software work the same.

It is no longer capable of allowing me to change the format of a single cell in excel. It complains that it hasn't got enough memory to do it!!!!

That's not a normal situation. Also, Excel is not Windows, it's Office.

Sounds like your Work have not set it up well or it has a fault. I can't help thinking that comparing work Windows laptops with personally owned Macs isn't comparing like for like.

that awful tag team of Molgrips/Mikewsmith

Just to make it clear - I've got nothing against Apple. Seriously considered one for work this time. My problem is with Apple fanbois and flawed logic.

Windows is NOT SHIT. Your work IT dept may be shit. Your work software may be shit. Your laptop hardware manufacturer may be shit. But don't blame Windows for Excel on your work laptop not working. That's like blaming Ford for being stuck in traffic.

OP, I'd go with a secondhand 13" 2014 or 2015 MBP. Something recent enough that you get relatively up to date processors and small enough to travel with, 16GB Ram and at least 266GB HD.
Have you checked out the Apple Refurbs?

dunno if anyone has mentioned bootcamp and dual boot a mac

or

HP ZBOOK 14" job done weighs nowt and eats a mac alive power wise, lasts a full 12 hour shift too on battery, and about 700 quid cheaper than the very top line MBP

Tedious fanboy histrionics aside, does anyone seriously think Windows 10 is inferior to OSX? As said above, they're just different. There might be a few applications where one pulls ahead of the other, but there's nothing wrong with either. Get the one you like and move on.

that awful tag team of Molgrips/Mikewsmith

"Windows is NOT SHIT."

Compared to Mac OSX, it is. Apple worked out how the vast majority of people really wanted to be able to use computers and designed an OS around that. Microsoft have forlornly been trying to play catch up ever since. And failing. I'm not even going to bother listing the myriad issues I've had with our Windows machines compared to our Macs, life is simply too short. I suppose if you really like messing about with techy computer stuff, then Windows/Linux etc might appeal to you, but if you're a normal person and just want the thing to do what it's supposed to, without fuss, then it's more than worth the extra outlay on a Mac. As for value for money; I've yet to see any hardware truly match up to the quality of most Apple computers. We also have an old Sony Vaio laptop, which was high end when it was new, and that's still working (albeit with a knackered battery). In fairness, the WinXP on that is ok and reasonably stable. But we have even older Macs which still get daily/regular use, which continue to chug along.

"Your work IT dept may be shit. Your work software may be shit. Your laptop hardware manufacturer may be shit"

I don't have to worry about any of these things, as my Macs fortunately aren't shit.

but if you're a normal person and just want the thing to do what it's supposed to, without fuss, then it's more than worth the extra outlay on a Mac

Apple worked out how the vast majority of people really wanted to be able to use computers and designed an OS around that.

"downloaded all the drivers and installed them"

Sorry, what?

"And if you pull out the stats you will see how they have failed to sell that to the vast majority of people, the use ‰ is tiny in the grand scheme of things."

On the other hand, Apple is the leading manufacturer and OS for tablets and smartphones.

I'm quite happy to pay a bit for a well-designed, fully integrated hardware and software package. You appear to be happy with Windows. But then, you may prefer McDonalds to decent food. 😉

Apologies its what you need to deal with configurable systems, not everyone needs the same hardware 😉

I have a highly integrated solution on good hardware, I work between mobiles, laptops and desktops with integration happening via clouds. I'll pick up stuff on my phone, work on it on my laptop in a meeting and continue on the desktop when I'm on the office while playing with a pile of virtual hardware across many platforms.

Perhaps the food comparison is more along the lines of do you want your same burger served on an expensive plate by a fancy waiter, does that make it better?

Perhaps the food comparison is more along the lines of do you want your same burger served on an expensive plate by a fancy waiter, does that make it better?

No. Because the burger in question served by the fancy waiter has some unique qualities that taste better than the burger served on the blue/grey plastic tray by the bloke wearing cheap shoes, the cost of the burger isn't really an issue when you consider the ingredients and how it doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth.

I think the tractor/Porsche analogy was far better. Sums up both camps to me pretty well and I suspect both will be happy with their choice.

I think the tractor/Porsche analogy was far better.

These days it's more Porsche/Ferrari, similar performance but one screams "look at me".

@molgrils we understand you like Windows/Microsft and you knkw far more about it than most of us (me certainly) and probably more about OSX. However please appretiate that we've been hearing about how the latest windows is really great for 10 years or about the latest laptop/surface. The fact is we don't believe it based on prior e periemce and we don't care. Its like Nokia or Blackberry putting out a mobile handset press release.

@binners 😀

It is no longer capable of allowing me to change the format of a single cell in excel. It complains that it hasn't got enough memory to do it!!!!

That Apple spell check is really coming into its own!

Mr Smith's explanation of why he won't change seems quite sensible. Likewise having used Windows for years now the time spent relearning a system is just a waste of time unless there is likely to be a significant improvement. I don't think there will be as Windows works very well. None of my computers are newer than 2011 and they all run fine for my purposes.

I probably was one of the first people on this forum to have a Apple on his desk, 1987. They were great then but there were hardly free of system errors.

I use both Windows and OSX equally. Both my MBP Retina and MB Air are dual boot via boot camp with Windows 10 and El Capitan. On both the MBP and Air I have had been in the position of trying to boot into OSX only for it to restart and reinstall itself without my profile. Restarting it has brought up my profile again and all has worked. The OSX has also lost connections to the server and needed to be reconnected too often.
Windows 10 only problem I had was installing the Apple drivers that hung on the soundcard. After that was resolved I have not had a single problem in Windows and the operating system feels snappier on the same hardware than OSX. I like OSX but Windows has jumped ahead and if it linked up to my iPhone and iPad like OSX does then I would drop the Apple operating system altogether.

I think the tractor/Porsche analogy was far better.

These days it's more Porsche/Ferrari, similar performance but one screams "look at me".

One makes a very functional tractor workhorse, with 7sp gearbox, 3 low/med/high range and a 3rd gear lever for fwd/reverse.

The other makes a vehicle that screams "look at me".

A Macbook, Pro or otherwise, is just a laptop.

As for bluescreen, I have yet to trigger a bluescreen or kernel panic or RRoD or equivalent on Windows 7, Windows 8.1, have not managed to trigger one on Linux for a very very very long time (easily over a decade). Oh... yeah forgot, my macbook that went thru 3 batteries in 3 years... I kernel paniced that a few times.

Macs just work... except when they don't.

Compared to Mac OSX, it is. Apple worked out how the vast majority of people really wanted to be able to use computers and designed an OS around that

A Macbook, Pro or otherwise is just a laptop.

With a touchpad that is yet to be rivalled by a windows machine.

Serious point....is there a windows laptop with a keyboard/touchpad that is on par?

Also, I am in no way a Apple Fanboy. In fact I have to cart my 2015 MBP off to get it's display replaced as the anti-reflective coating has started to wear off.

....but dat touchpad tho.

IA what was the problem with Windows Backup?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/automated-windows-backup

The only good thing about my Macbook touchpad is that it was one of the first to be in the same aspect ratio as the screen. Props to Apple there, but that's not exactly a unique selling point any more.
But it's not shiney and aluminium enough for Apple's image in Starbucks, therefore they made it obsolete and no longer upgradeable to anything modern. 1 CPU clock speed newer can be update to the latest OSX.
Might try Win10 on that 😉 I bet it will be as ace as Win10 on something brand new.
PS my Chromebook "just works" too. Oh and the eeePC (remember them?) still "just works".
Mac Keyboard was OK. All non-Mac copied it (including my Chromebook), and are all as equal, except for some minor differences in a few special keys.

The only good thing about my Macbook touchpad is that it was one of the first to be in the same aspect ratio as the screen. Props to Apple there, but that's not exactly a unique selling point any more.
But it's not shiney and aluminium enough for Apple's image in Starbucks, therefore they made it obsolete and no longer upgradeable to anything modern. 1 CPU clock speed newer can be update to the latest OSX.

Erm...ok then.

*slowly backs away*

I use Macs and Windows machines. Some things I prefer Windows for and some things are better on a Mac, but I've yet to use any Windows machines that comes anywhere near the genuinely ace multi-gesture trackpad on a Mac and find it fascinating to watch people using touch screens on laptops when (IMHO) the trackpad is a much better interface for a laptop.

For the record I think Word, Outlook and Excel on Windows are better than Word, Outlook and Excel on a Mac and definitely better than Pages, Mail and Numbers. I also prefer Windows Explorer to Mac Finder (I think I need to spend a few hours getting to grips with the Finder 'cos in several years of using Macs I still find it a slow and cumbersome way to find/navigate files and folders on the Mac). Conversely Safari on a Mac is a much better experience than anything Microsoft have produced for browsing the web, but I've not yet used Edge/Win 10. I could go on but in summary I'd say Macs are ace for reasons that relate to hardware quality and "user experience" rather than out and out function.

I know it's extra expense, but as a fellow Finder non-aficionado, I use PathFinder. About £30, cheaper offers from time to time, but scratches that windows explorer itch.

http://www.cocoatech.com/pathfinder/

Also, comparing Word to Pages, is like comparing an Pong to Witcher 3.

Also, comparing Word to Pages, is like comparing an Pong to Witcher 3.

I wish I knew what that means 😆

I'm always a bit bemused by the accusation that macs are somehow "bling". They are not. They are well designed and manufactured and if anything a bit understated. They feel nice to use. I'm pretty sure that STWers tend to apply quality as a parameter when buying cars, stoves, axes, beard wax and possibly even bikes. So why not computers? As for the complaints about jacked up prices, the only Windows laptops that come remotely close in quality are about the same price anyway.

So really it comes down to what OS you fancy using.

I wish I knew what that means

It's like comparing this:

to this:

I am trying to demonstrate that one is significantly more technically proficient.

I will now collect my coat, and vacate the premises 😛

😆 I see now

The more interesting observation for me is that Outlook on Mac is missing some genuinely useful features compared to Outlook on Windows, which is a shame.

As for the complaints about jacked up prices, the only Windows laptops that come remotely close in quality are about the same price anyway.

i priced up a dell that had what i needed including the essential 2x thunderbolt 2 ports and it was less than £200 difference. even if it was £500 difference i still wouldn’t bother as it lacked the crucial feature of running OSX

i still find these whole discussions amusing though as people can be so passionate about a computer (on both sides) and their purchasing decision is somehow wrong? i know if i was a bean counter with 50 sales reps out on the road i definitely wouldn’t be buying them a macbook, they would get the crappiest cheapest laptop that would get the job done and the money saved would go to my obnoxious 4x4 fund or a pointless wris****ch.

or a pointless wris****ch.

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IA what was the problem with Windows Backup?

I did read that post.

From what I can tell, Windows backup features in W10 do meet those requirements. System image backup can be automated (or at least it could in W7) and is incremental.

Other genuine question then - what exactly is so great about the Apple track pad?

I always assumed Apple spent a lot of effort on the trackpad because they were unable to produce a mouse that functioned properly.

Most PC users I know just use a mouse, simples 😀

Why is anyone surprised a similar specced and built PC would be much different from a Mac when underneath they are all the same parts, probably made in the same factory. In fact when you think about the fact that Dell can produce and sell for £200 less then that tells you a lot about Apples profit margins.

is that what grates with people? somebody is making money from them?

Other genuine question then - what exactly is so great about the Apple track pad?

It actually works! It is more than a pointing device. Gestures is something that is easy to mock if you are not used to them, but going to a machine without it feels like a massive massive step backwards.

Zoom reliably with one hand on anything I want, jump to a section of text, left and right click without having to use another set of buttons, show all my apps that are open, jump between my various desktops. It just works in an easy to use intuitive manner.

I don't have to reach up to a screen like windows, I don't need two hands like most laptops if I actually want to control zoom or click.

It just works in a way you don't even think about it, and going back to windows feels like a step back in time.

Is it wrong that I automatically disregard any argument made when the poster uses the word 'simples'?

Other genuine question then - what exactly is so great about the Apple track pad?

It's just so damn smooth and responsive. I'm sure some of the top of the line Windows laptops may rival it, but you get the same touchpad on the cheapest MBA, as you do on the most tricked out MBP.*

*Ok, the MBP have force touch, but I am yet to be sold on that. I never use it at any rate.

i still find these whole discussions amusing though as people can be so passionate about a computer

as I said... a Macbook is just a laptop. Pretty good one, admittedly, but it is just a laptop, in just the same way that a Hoover or a Dyson is just a vaccuum cleaner.

It actually works! It is more than a pointing device. Gestures is something that is easy to mock if you are not used to them, but going to a machine without it feels like a massive massive step backwards.

Zoom reliably with one hand on anything I want, jump to a section of text, left and right click without having to use another set of buttons, show all my apps that are open, jump between my various desktops. It just works in an easy to use intuitive manner.

I don't have to reach up to a screen like windows, I don't need two hands like most laptops if I actually want to control zoom or click.

It just works in a way you don't even think about it, and going back to windows feels like a step back in time.

My old Sony E Series did all that and so does the Wife's Lenovo Yoga laptop. The Yoga can do it too by touching the screen. I suspect lots of other laptops can do this too which makes the MB a bit outdated.

as I said... a Macbook is just a laptop. Pretty good one, admittedly, but it is just a laptop, in just the same way that a Hoover or a Dyson is just a vaccuum cleaner.

Dyson4Lyfe.

[img] [/img]

From what I can tell, Windows backup features in W10 do meet those requirements. System image backup can be automated (or at least it could in W7) and is incremental.

I tried it out, and couldn't make it do that. I wasn't blindly asking/assuming. I bought a machine and tried to do what I wanted, and couldn't. I find it hard to believe what I wanted to do was impossible, and it probably isn't, I just never found a good way!

Zoom reliably with one hand on anything I want, jump to a section of text, left and right click without having to use another set of buttons, show all my apps that are open, jump between my various desktops. It just works in an easy to use intuitive manner.

I could do most of those things on the Synaptics ones I've used, I think...

Remember that Apple is a hardware platform as well as an OS, whereas Windows is just an OS. So the makers of Windows PCs are free to buy their hardware from any supplier. Synaptics make a lot of touchpads, and you can attach all sorts of actions to all sorts of gestures.

For example, I have two finger scroll to scroll and two finger tap to get the context menu. In the past I've configured corner taps to show desktop, three-finger clicks to switch apps and all sorts. On Synaptics devices.

I tried it out, and couldn't make it do that. I wasn't blindly asking/assuming.

In W8 they removed the W7 backup/system image feature, but in W10 it's back - perhaps this was the issue. System imaging is pretty good in Windows, and it's a MAJOR missing feature from Linux. I have to shut the machine down to make a system image.

POssibly a more interesting question as to whether mac or windows is better is why do I keep clicking on and reading these threads? What on earth can I hope to learn from this argument? Why?

WHYYYY?

The only thing I have learned from the last few pages, is that mikewsmith must be in bed still.

suspect lots of other laptops can do this too which makes the MB a bit outdated

Oh no! really?! should i bin mine now? i desperately need to be cutting edge 😥

My old Sony E Series did all that and so does the Wife's Lenovo Yoga laptop. The Yoga can do it too by touching the screen. I suspect lots of other laptops can do this too which makes the MB a bit outdated.

Having used both of those at home and work, then no they are not even comparable, they feel like a cheap rip of a mac implementation. And reaching for a screen just makes no sense. Even simple things like clicking at the edge of a trackpad, mac it's the same feel no matter where you click with the heptic feedback, windows machines the feel is completely different from centre edge.

Use a mac trackpad and a windows trackpad for a significant amount of time for more than browsing the internet, there is no way you would consider a Windows implementation a viable alternative. As someone said Windows PC's are not built as with a common approach to hardware and software, so it would be unfair to think that a windows machine could match it without significant investment by the hardware manufacturer.

I love windows machines, they are great and W10 is brilliant, but people are allowed preferences and there are differences in platforms. Try fixing a Mac laptop these days, it's a nightmare. Windows machines are often far ahead in this. Also I have been badly burnt by several high end PC's letting me down at critical moments, for quite pointless things, so that will tarnish things just as it would if it was the other way round. For a heavy user who travels a lot windows machines generally lasted a year, Macs last about 4 and then get retired to family use. The windows machines are junked.

A computer is a tool for me, it has to work, feel nice in the hand and be reliable. There are many laptops that work and are reliable, but feel like cheap pieces of plastic. The closest I got were high end Sony's which worked really well, however screen cracked and keyboards died, so on long haul trips I was taking a spare, such was my lack of faith in it. If it's a device to browse the internet then it's pointless to get a mac, if you use it all day every day then I think people can use whatever tool they want, and if some features are important to that person then thats a reason to have the machine.

For the record I think Word, Outlook and Excel on Windows are better than Word, Outlook and Excel on a Mac

Well they only support VBA on Windows, so there is no competition there.

as I said... a Macbook is just a laptop. Pretty good one, admittedly, but it is just a laptop, in just the same way that a Hoover or a Dyson is just a vaccuum cleaner.

I only use a Dyson for about 15mins a week, whereas I spend 10 hours a day in front of a PC, so I'm a bit more discerning about the computer than the vacuum.....

so it would be unfair to think that a windows machine could match it without significant investment by the hardware manufacturer.

Synaptics have clearly invested in it significantly, as it's their business!

For a heavy user who travels a lot windows machines generally lasted a year, Macs last about 4 and then get retired to family use. The windows machines are junked.

See this is what I am talking about. You're blaming the OS for the hardware durability, which is madness. If your Windows laptop breaks, it's not because it's Windows - it's because HP, Dell, Lenovo or whoever have not made it well enough. It has absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft.

Use a mac trackpad and a windows trackpad for a significant amount of time for more than browsing the internet, there is no way you would consider a Windows implementation a viable alternative

Gahh... again - there's no such thing as a Windows trackpad.

Synaptics have clearly invested in it significantly, as it's their business!

In agreement there but it's not something that is available with all windows laptops by your own argument.

See this is what I am talking about. You're blaming the OS for the hardware durability, which is madness. If your Windows laptop breaks, it's not because it's Windows - it's because HP, Dell, Lenovo or whoever have not made it well enough. It has absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft.

No I'm not, I am grouping all laptops produced by a multitude of manufacturers that are designed to run windows into the same group. I know that windows lasts well as an OS, I have run windows on mac machines for years and I know that it lasts when set up well. I will phrase it another way - all my apple produced devices have lasted far better than my Non Apple devices, and when the non apple devices went wrong no one company would stand behind it.

As an implementer of Microsoft products for many years, and a former employee, I know the difference between hardware and software. I am frustrated by when MS is held back by the hardware boys as some of their software is exceptional, I don't have time for my own personal tools to go to the trouble I have to for my clients in trying to make a collection of parts together work well - so I don't.

Gahh... again - there's no such thing as a Windows trackpad.

Are there grown up people arguing about which OS/platform is best???

All my apple devices lasted about 1 year. 3 new batteries for a device designed to be mobile. The macbook has been resigned to the cupboard and its original packaging, and a battery with 0% capacity again.

All my non-Apple devices lasted 4 years+
The Sony got sold to a friend after I'd used it for many years, and then he sold it on. The eeePC I bought about the same time as the Macbook that's been in the cupboard for years, still works perfectly, although the battery is now dropping from 100% perfection. My Chromebook has already outlasted my macbook's first battery, and cost about €30 more than the price you have to pay for a macbook battery if you don't get it replaced under warranty.

If I get another macbook, the SSD will be zapped, and the macbook sold on while still within Apple's 1 year warranty.

Are there grown up people arguing about which OS/platform is best???

Yes, yes there are.

...and if you had an Apple laptop, this would have been obvious.

Winblowz! Micro$oft! Lolz!

And if they did control the supply chain, or indeed mandated standard I suspect we wouldn't be having the debate of Non Apple v's Apple trackpads

And Windows PCs would lose a key selling point, which is cost.

It's a good thing that we have these different approaches to PCs. It allows one company to establish itself as premium, and others to be able to produce budget stuff AS WELL as premium stuff.

It's a good thing that we have these different approaches to PCs. It allows one company to establish itself as premium, and others to be able to produce budget stuff AS WELL as premium stuff.

But it won't be.

No, not as long as people are spouting bollocks that makes no sense like Windows trackpads are rubbish. I suppose Ford tyres and Samsung TV programmes are also rubbish?

No, not as long as people are spouting bollocks that makes no sense like Windows trackpads are rubbish.

It's not 'spouting bollocks', tho. You're just being too literal. When someone refers to a Window's touchpad being rubbish, I take that to mean a laptop that runs Window's touchpad is rubbish. Even though I believe it was stated Apple's offerings were merely better, rather than the Windows versions were rubbish.

....and in this case, they mostly are inferior to Apple's offerings.

There really is no need to be so defensive, Molgrips.

I suppose Ford tyres...are also rubbish?

That actually demonstrates the [i]opposite[/i] of your argument quite well. If someone buys a Ford and it has crap tyres on it, their experience of that purchase will be a bad one. *Some* people might twig it is the tyres at fault rather than the car and may do something about it, but by this stage most people's first impression will already be made.

And that is why Apple have their fanbois; the first impression is a very very good one.

There really is no need to be so defensive, Molgrips.

Well I should re-iterate. I'm not *defensive* as such. I'm not using either Apple or Windows for my main workstation, as it happens.

I'm just annoyed with flawed logic, which is then considered the basis for one-sided viewpoints. It's illogical, and this frustrates me greatly.

*Some* people might twig it is the tyres at fault rather than the car and may do something about it, but by this stage most people's first impression will already be made.

And again - this is wrong-headed!

I've nothing against Apple, and I find it very interesting that they have taken a different approach and achieved something different. There are I believe positives and negatives, which is good, because we now have real choice. Three real choices, at least, which all have benefits.

It's illogical, and this frustrates me greatly.

this is wrong-headed!

People aren't logical and "right-headed"(whatever that means 😆 ). People regularly buy based on first impressions and "feel", not to mention peer reviews.

My first impression of a Mac was a joy after many years of Windows - sorry, non-Apple - PC use and I didn't have a hugely unpleasant time with Windows - sorry, non-Apple - PCs. It's less night and day now that I've uncovered some of the weaknesses in Apple's software and OS (and I should stress I have found no weaknesses in their hardware) but few of us have the time or energy to do such exhaustive testing before buying. That's why we start STW threads instead 🙂

Both OSX and Windows are illogical and unintuitive.
Only bought my Macbook at the time because it was not Windows, and saved myself the windows tax. And because Apple conformed to EU law (sort of), and allowed English language OS and English international keyboard options as standard from a non-UK/Ireland website within EU. Unlike Dell, who at the time I would have had to order German OS+Keyboard from the .de site with a special request, then phone up the 0898 hotline to have the order amended by an operator.
And weirdly, it was €20 cheaper.

Everything since, I've ordered online from the ferry, and picked up a bonafide UK model from Argos, and worry about an EU mains lead later.

Google doesn't conform to EU law either, for warranties. But at least it works.

They were all laptops. All have been a joyful as each other. It's a workhorse to do what I want it to do, not a machine to have joy with.

All quite true. Try stuff, buy what you like.

But don't then make proclaimations about something you don't understand on a public forum and get all tribal about it.

And don't, when someone says Apples are too expensive, try and persuade them that £1,500 isn't really a lot of money for what you get, seemingly oblivious to the fact that cost is an actual barrier to many people - in other words, it might be better value for money but if you haven't got £1,500, then you haven't got it!

Saw a young lad busking today with an Apple sticker on his guitar! FFS!

Keep Going Chaps! This is very entertaining.
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Sent from my Dell workstation

Wait...

Dell make their trackpads from ford tyres?

This thread is confusing.

Saw a young lad busking today with an Apple sticker on his guitar! FFS!

Anyway, could be worse. Over the way they're arguing about pies.

Saw a young lad busking today with an Apple sticker on his guitar! FFS!

how would you feel about a microsoft or HP sticker?

The same, really. I'd hate to advertise consumer goods when playing music...

However - the fact that you never see anyone with a Microsoft or HP sticker on a guitar or on other personal items shows fanboism at work.

Windows laptops don't last as long because;
1) bloatware just slows them down to the point they are unusable
2) people spend less on them as if you have £1000 to spend many/most people would buy a mac

Pages does everything I need in a "word processor", Numbers isn't close to Excel yet but them again it took ages before Excel was better than 123. Mail is ok too and a lot of email work I do on iphone/ipad anyway

@mol you can call it fanboi-ism if you like but artists/designers and musicians have always preferred macs due to product design amd software available and seen Microsoft as an abusive corporate power to boot. Its a pretty small group of people who aspire to own a Microsoft product

It's not 2000 any more Jam.

This is all well and good, but what's everyone's favorite type of nut?

I think almonds are the best and anyone who disagrees is just a brazil nut fanboi.

bloatware just slows them down to the point they are unusable

Not sure that is really the case. And if it is, which it isn't then it's user error.

...and almonds. They are just smoother.

It's not 2000 any more Jam.

Question for Apple fans then - what do you think of the Surface Book?

It's not 2000 any more Jam.

then why do people not get other people purchasing choices for a personal computer might be different from there own but still be perfectly valid?

i’m just a tool user not a fanboy. with a long list of reasons for choosing what piece of equipment i use to do my job, i’m sure theres lots of people making similar purchasing decisions with lots of different criteria and different outcomes. mine isn’t a better decision than theirs.

the haters make it sound like every time i turn my laptop on i'm supposedly being shafted in the anus by the ghost of steve jobs while simultaneously throwing £50 notes in a hole.

then why do people not get other people purchasing choices for a personal computer might be different from there own but still be perfectly valid?

I do get this, absolutely. That's been my point all along.

The same, really. I'd hate to advertise consumer goods when playing music...

However - the fact that you never see anyone with a Microsoft or HP sticker on a guitar or on other personal items shows fanboism at work.

Or kids love stickers and when given one will throw it on anything. My sons homework books (as they are allowed to decorate them) are plastered with Hope, Apple, Raceface, VMWare, Fox, Gibson, 661 stickers - to be honest he doesn't have a clue what half the stickers are for, but god do him and his friends love a sticker.

He doesn't have a MS sticker as I don't think I've ever had one, but he does have a MS Server Drinks bottle he uses on his bike so I feel he is sufficiently promoting all brands for him to leave the house.

Scrap that - he has a Minecraft sticker on his guitar and I'm not sure Yamaha have anything to do with Mojang or Microsoft! I have just given him a lecture and sent him to sit on the naughty step to think about the confusing message this may deliver to people. And I just realisedI have my company logo on a sticker on my laptop, I don't even make things, let alone laptops - so off to the naughty step for me.

Just buy what you prefer people no one really cares what anyone else has anyway, especially not if it works for you...